Looking at the pics and wondering what is going on with the huge slab of concrete north of the park and west of the arena. That is the old car dealership correct? Has it been announced what is planned for that prime area? I must have missed what is going on there.

I don't think anything has been announced for that site yet. It used to be downtown Ford and is owned by Bob Howard's real estate company if I recall correctly. They seem to have an abundance of downtown real estate at the moment. With the Mercedes dealership now officially moved, they've got multiple city blocks in automobile alley and this, in my opinion, is one of the single most attractive pieces of downtown real estate. Myriad gardens to the north and Scissortail Park to the south. Hopefully they have something impressive planned for this location!

Looking at the pics and wondering what is going on with the huge slab of concrete north of the park and west of the arena. That is the old car dealership correct? Has it been announced what is planned for that prime area? I must have missed what is going on there.

Pretty sure there is zero going on there presently. Publicly anyway.

If they were smart, they would come up with something or find a developer to develop it. All I can say is NO FAST FOOD RESTAURANTS. I can't stand having McDonalds and Sonic taking up real estate in Downtown, let alone any more. I would like to see pedestrian bridges built from the Myriad to any future development and then another from the development to Scissortail Park so people can go from park to park safely. I don't know how feasible that is, but it's something that should be thought of.

One: The downtown Sonic isn't going anywhere. EVER. It is next door to Sonic Headquarters.

Two: In looking on Google Maps, where would the pedestrian bridge(s) go? I mean, I'm not against the idea, I personally think the people who are against sky bridges are insane and have no actual valid reason to be against them, but they have to be somewhere.

I'm referring to the Sonic near West Village on the west side of Downtown. I've got no problem with the one in Bricktown.

There is nothing inherently wrong with fast food restaurants downtown. In fact, every downtown should have a wide array of dining choices. Sometimes visitors or workers need something quick and inexpensive. Not everyone has time every day for a full sit-down lunch, and every meal doesn’t have to be an experience. Not to mention, there is an inherent equity issue when you eliminate inexpensive food choices. Not everyone has $10+ to spend on lunch.

That said, I agree that discouraging drive-thrus in an urban area is good planning practice.

Regarding pedestrian bridges and sky bridges, there is ample evidence - both anecdotal and scientific - that they have a negative impact on urban environments:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

https://ggwash.org/view/219/skybridges-dont-make-the-connection

Looking at the pics and wondering what is going on with the huge slab of concrete north of the park and west of the arena. That is the old car dealership correct? Has it been announced what is planned for that prime area? I must have missed what is going on there.

It's a $ 20 parking lot for Thunder games.

There is nothing inherently wrong with fast food restaurants downtown. In fact, every downtown should have a wide array of dining choices. Sometimes visitors or workers need something quick and inexpensive. Not everyone has time every day for a full sit-down lunch, and every meal doesn’t have to be an experience. Not to mention, there is an inherent equity issue when you eliminate inexpensive food choices. Not everyone has $10+ to spend on lunch.

That said, I agree that discouraging drive-thrus in an urban area is good planning practice.

Regarding pedestrian bridges and sky bridges, there is ample evidence - both anecdotal and scientific - that they have a negative impact on urban environments:

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2018/03/30/instead-of-a-pedestrian-bridge-how-about-a-street-that-works-for-walking-biking-and-transit/

https://ggwash.org/view/219/skybridges-dont-make-the-connection

I wish we had MORE fast food downtown for the very reasons you mention.

It's a $ 20 parking lot for Thunder games.

Yes I have paid them dearly. In fact I have paid more than that for the prime area right across the street from the arena.

Surely they have to have some secret plans for that site.

IMO two parcels of land in OKC's core are overpriced; Producer's COOP Mill & the old downtown Ford site. My prediction is that the owners of these parcels will probably look back on their decision to hold out for more. Just don't think they will get their asking price now or within the next decade.

It appears the second article linked is a decade-old opinion piece talking about a series of skybridges as a means of transport throughout a city. It does not address the obvious use of them, connecting a hotel to the convention center it serves, allowing catering services to cross safely. As already demonstrated in this thread (or the hotel thread, they both overlap), any use for people is secondary and does not, in fact, prevent people from using street access. I haven't seen anyone (until just a few posts ago) suggest (from the article): "Elevated walkways as an urban design (or even suburban design) element".

Back to the food options. . .

There isn't anything wrong with fast food. Personally, I don't frequent that 'Benson, draw my bath crowd' food establishments--where you wait so long you forgot what you ordered. Excellent places for those who like and can afford great-fine cuisine dining.

Raised among the OKC peasant population :D where there were always an abundance of restaurants like Beverly's Chicken-in-the-rough--N.W. 23rd, Kips' Home of the Big Boy, Boulevard Cafeteria, Cattlemen's Steakhouse, Krispy King Fried Chicken,Village Pancake House, Jeff's Cafeteria, Adair's Cafeteria, Furr's, Spaghetti Factory (Paseo), Sleepy Hollow, Grady's Hamburgers, Gary's BBQ (current Greyhound site), Butler's, Leo's, Pulliam's & Big Beef BBQ restaurants--yum, those were/are nice food establishments--many with great distinct taste.

Majority of these places are gone & with them the original owners' great recipes were buried.

We live in a different era where patrons want their food right this minutes or sit down to a great wine & dine evening. We could use a combination of all three. There just doesn't seem to be many options anymore.

It appears the second article linked is a decade-old opinion piece talking about a series of skybridges as a means of transport throughout a city. It does not address the obvious use of them, connecting a hotel to the convention center it serves, allowing catering services to cross safely. As already demonstrated in this thread (or the hotel thread, they both overlap), any use for people is secondary and does not, in fact, prevent people from using street access. I haven't seen anyone (until just a few posts ago) suggest (from the article): "Elevated walkways as an urban design (or even suburban design) element".
I've specifically defended the use of a sky bridge on this particular project multiple times in this very thread, so you're barking up the wrong tree here. In fact I'm pretty sure I'm the person who first cited the reasons you mention.

A sky bridge is appropriate for the CC-Omni connection and inappropriate in almost any other setting. This also goes for pedestrian walkways spanning city streets. This thinking is in no way dated and in fact has even more acceptance among planners today than it did a decade ago.

IMO two parcels of land in OKC's core are overpriced; Producer's COOP Mill & the old downtown Ford site. My prediction is that the owners of these parcels will probably look back on their decision to hold out for more. Just don't think they will get their asking price now or within the next decade.
Producer’s co-op is currently under contract to a known and very successful developer who is very far along with plans for the site, and as far as I know the old Fred Jones Ford site has never been listed for sale. That site is owned by a partnership which includes some of the most active and successful downtown developers of the last decade, and they have indicated both publicly and privately that they have long-term plans to develop the site themselves. So, not sure this was very sound analysis.

I've specifically defended the use of a sky bridge on this particular project multiple times in this very thread, so you're barking up the wrong tree here. In fact I'm pretty sure I'm the person who first cited the reasons you mention.

A sky bridge is appropriate for the CC-Omni connection and inappropriate in almost any other setting. This also goes for pedestrian walkways spanning city streets. This thinking is in no way dated and in fact has even more acceptance among planners today than it did a decade ago.

Agree with the sky bridge. Those tourists who want to tour the city will get out on foot or use the streetcar. That's why I'm in favor of giving free tokens to the conventioneers who ride our novelty streetcar. While we're at it; let's make the streetcar available on Sundays.

Agree with the sky bridge. Those tourists who want to tour the city will get out on foot or use the streetcar. That's why I'm in favor of giving free tokens to the conventioneers who ride our novelty streetcar. While we're at it; let's make the streetcar available on Sundays.

There is still work being done behind the scenes to provide Sunday service.

Regarding sky bridges, they are just as bad in areas fequented primarily by locals. They promote high vehicle speeds, they don’t acknowledge other transit modes such as bicycles, they make walking less safe for those still on the sidewalk, and they actively discourage street-side retail and services.

Agree, with all of the above.


Producer’s COOP is currently under contract to a known and very successful developer who is very far along with plans for the site, and as far as I know the old Fred Jones Ford site has never been listed for sale. That site is owned by a partnership which includes some of the most active and successful downtown developers of the last decade, and they have indicated both publicly and privately that they have long-term plans to develop the site themselves. So, not sure this was very sound analysis.

Good news, sounds like exciting plans Urbanized. Must be something big that will impact downtown; seriously, I'm willing to hold my breath--you obviously have more knowledge that we know you will share with the rest of us when the time comes--looking forward.

In all seriousness, don't think many conventioneers will be looking forward to riding bicycles around the core (sarcasm). IMHO, our streetcar will be a big hit among tourists. Definitely understand the walk-ability safety movement in major cities' trend--just don't trust these drivers.

Glad to hear that the Sunday streetcar service is still being considered. How about some free tokens for conventioneers since there will be a streetcar fare?

I certainly am not on the inside on the Ford Center site - and I think it has definitely been backburnered though I have no doubt about the ability/means of the owners. Regarding the co-op I have a bit more information but definitely not privy to everything.

I've specifically defended the use of a sky bridge on this particular project multiple times in this very thread, so you're barking up the wrong tree here. In fact I'm pretty sure I'm the person who first cited the reasons you mention.

A sky bridge is appropriate for the CC-Omni connection and inappropriate in almost any other setting. This also goes for pedestrian walkways spanning city streets. This thinking is in no way dated and in fact has even more acceptance among planners today than it did a decade ago.

Understand and agree, I think we might be going in circles around the same point. Like I said, I haven't seen anyone propose them as a means of transport around OKC until a few posts back. As a means of transport, they make little sense. My point was just that the article didn't really do much to address the one actual use for them. It's like slicing your skin with a knife. 99% of the time, really stupid idea. To remove the melanoma, really excellent idea.

Agree with the sky bridge. Those tourists who want to tour the city will get out on foot or use the streetcar. That's why I'm in favor of giving free tokens to the conventioneers who ride our novelty streetcar. While we're at it; let's make the streetcar available on Sundays.

You know, I realize the 'hospitality industry' long ago took away amenities and started nickel and diming everything, but I think the hotel that did this would really be hitting on something, especially if it were a convention hotel. Someone here for a week or a weekend, give them a couple tokens and tell them red line takes you here, blue line takes you there, yellow line has this, orange line has that. Especially those hotels that charge really high valet fees per night, regardless if you are in and out or park the whole weekend and explore the city. Rising tide lifts all boats, the investment of a couple tokens would put way more than that into multiple wallets, plus it would be a really great selling feature. Worst case scenario people keep the tokens as souvenirs, in which case the city still gets the money.

I think people are underestimating the impact even the “vaguely connected to the bus system” streetcar will have. I drive for the two prominent rideshare companies when I’m bored. When I’m driving downtown, a good 50-60% of my trips are literally Bricktown to midtown or midtown to Bricktown. I usually just drive the path of the rails where possible. There’s going to be a lot of potential riders.

Edit: another thing. We get a LOT more visitors than I ever imagined.

Since construction is starting on the CC, and organizers generally want to plan in advance, has there been any word on advance bookings or how inquiries are running?

...Edit: another thing. We get a LOT more visitors than I ever imagined.

The average resident has no idea whatsoever. Also, they’re not just in Bricktown, as I’m sure you can attest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=138gRkhfqMY

There is still work being done behind the scenes to provide Sunday service.

We are working on it. Time will tell.

^^ for the success of the streetcar, this is a MUST-BE scenario.

As was mentioned, most residents and definitely ALL visitors have no idea about the streetcar or what the city is doing transit wise UNTIL THEY SEE IT. If Sunday is the day where nearly everyone has time off, we need to have all amenities available to not only use but to educate and inform. I'm not saying the streetcar needs to be running at rush hour frequencies; just maybe something like 9am-8pm with 30-minute headways maybe greater during the afternoon period - just enough to get noticed by the odd resident coming downtown or visitor whose only here for the weekend. Perhaps they'll use it but if not I can guarantee you they'll remember it and spread the word.

That's much better than, "OKC had some rails in the streets but I didn't see any trains - what a waste of money"

You can already see the outline of the convention center in these 2 photos from Saturday.

Also notice they have started the demolition of Broadway which will be located about a half a block to the east.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention062318.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention062318b.jpg

Also notice they have started the demolition of Broadway which will be located about a half a block to the east.

Could you clarify what this will look like?

To the east of the convention center, Broadway will be shifted slightly east.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/conventionmixeduse.jpg

Aww, okay. I was incorrectly picturing Robinson being shifted and thus making me confused. Thank you.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention070818.jpg

Pete, so I have been assuming but want to verify... the area just south of the Fairfield, and East of the convention Center is just going to be the ramps and docks for the convention center, correct?

Pete, so I have been assuming but want to verify... the area just south of the Fairfield, and East of the convention Center is just going to be the ramps and docks for the convention center, correct?

I think this angle gives the best idea of how that area will look:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/conventionback.jpg

thank you sir... so where will the loading/Unloading Docks be? most large convention centers hide them in alleys or things... but we don't really have that.. so curious where they are going to try and hide them

The loading docks are what you see at the very back of that image -- the darker area.

The loading docks are what you see at the very back of that image -- the darker area.

ok. cool. thank you sir

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/conventionback2.jpg

I wanted to take the opportunity - since you're all talking loading docks - to underscore that these are one of the main reasons driving the new facility. The Cox Center is constructed in such a way that doesn't easily allow simultaneous/overlapping events as the limited loading dock access and overall space doesn't allow for load-out/load-in to be occurring at the same time or for multiple events. One of the quickest ways this facility will provide new economic impact for the city is by expanding available event dates through the elimination of these blackout periods for load-in and load-out. I hope I described that in a way that makes sense.

I wanted to take the opportunity - since you're all talking loading docks - to underscore that these are one of the main reasons driving the new facility. The Cox Center is constructed in such a way that doesn't easily allow simultaneous/overlapping events as the limited loading dock access and overall space doesn't allow for load-out/load-in to be occurring at the same time or for multiple events. One of the quickest ways this facility will provide new economic impact for the city is by expanding available event dates through the elimination of these blackout periods for load-in and load-out. I hope I described that in a way that makes sense.

Makes sense to me. An event that finishes on the 10th, will be loading on the 11th, meaning the earliest another event could start would be the 13th if they are unloading the 12th. For simple numbers anyway.

Being able to simultaneously unload and load will mean shrinking that gap in the event schedule.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention072118.jpg

Now the skybridge connection to the Omni hotel seems to have been dropped, these are the three options being considered for additional MAPS funds for this facility:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention082418a.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention082418b.jpg



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention082418c.jpg

This was provided as a construction update in the committee meeting this week:

Project Schedule Look Ahead
• Site Excavation mostly complete. Compaction and Site Fill with enhanced soil material has begun.
• 5th Street demolition and excavation underway.
• Major utility installation has begun in New Broadway and 4th Street.
• Deep pier drilling just starting to begin.
• Shallow foundations and core walls to also be installed in August or September.
• Structural steel erection to begin in late Fall.

• Structural steel erection to begin in late Fall.

I love watching construction progress as much as anyone but this reaction to structural steel seems a bit extreme..

#lowhangingfruit

I love watching construction progress as much as anyone but this reaction to structural steel seems a bit extreme..

#lowhangingfruit

Yes coincides with the deep pier drilling.

Wait, the skybridge has been dropped? Is that new or did I miss it? I thought that was deemed a must-have?

New

Sorry, commented before finding the info on the other thread. Tried to edit post to remove but my computer was acting up. Thanks!

Also in MAPS 3: The skybridge between the Omni hotel and the MAPS 3 convention center has been dropped from the plans.


Press Reader: https://www.pressreader.com/usa/the-oklahoman/20180827/281599536361894

I think that Option 1 would make the most sense, although it seems to have the biggest schedule impact.

Already starting to go vertical:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention092618.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention102018.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention102018b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/convention102018c.jpg

Cool to see this area coming to life. Looks like a muddy red dirt mess for the workers right now though.

As someone who lives out of state, seeing that red dirt back in Oklahoma is always entertaining.

Good view of the amphitheater stage in pic #1, it shows the elevated slow where viewers will sit. Nice job, Pete.

This is going to be so worth it when it's done

As someone who lives out of state, seeing that red dirt back in Oklahoma is always entertaining.

Entertaining? I don't understand.

Entertaining? I don't understand.

Entertaining. Adjective. "Providing amusement or enjoyment". Similar words: Delightful, enjoyable, pleasing, agreeable, interesting, fascinating.

Entertaining? I don't understand.

Few places in the US have red dirt like we do here in Oklahoma. It can be quite striking compared to the color of the earth elsewhere, especially if you're not from here or if you haven't lived here for a while.

Entertaining. Adjective. "Providing amusement or enjoyment". Similar words: Delightful, enjoyable, pleasing, agreeable, interesting, fascinating.

I know what the word means. Why ya gotta be snarky? See that's one of those unnecessary posts that just doesn't belong here among friends.

Just wanted clarification for that context. Have never myself thought of looking at red dirt as entertaining. Just looking for the poster to expound, that's all.

This is going to be so worth it when it's done

Agree. I was a big "thumbsdown" on the CC, but I've come around to it. This is a very good thing for OKC.