Looks like they are getting close on the new substation:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/substation090317.jpg

Oklahoma River, future convention center draw new trade show (http://newsok.com/article/5562890)


Paddlesport Retailer, the official trade show for paddlers, is set to start a five-year stint in Oklahoma City that is expected to start with more than 1,000 vendors and 600 buyers.

...

“They do on-the-water demos; that's a big deal for them,” Hollenbeck said. “They set up their booths at the convention center. But one whole day is on the water. It's really easy for them here to bring a truck and set up or even walk to the water. In Salt Lake City, it was 45 minutes to the water.”

Mike Knopp, executive director of the Oklahoma City Boathouse Foundation, saw a site inspection delegation wowed by the river, the hotels, restaurants and entertainment in Bricktown, and plans for the future convention center.

“They came out having very low expectations,” Knopp said. “They left not wanting to look at anyplace else.”

Reads like a pretty huge get for the river/convention center.

If they stick around with the new center they will be even closer, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor.

If they stick around with the new center they will be even closer, I wouldn't be surprised if that was a factor.

Yes, it's booked for the next 5 years, so they get in on the new CC.

OKC already planning art for new convention center

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 19, 2017

OKLAHOMA CITY – Although the groundbreaking ceremony for the new MAPS 3 convention center is still months away, Robbie Kienzle is already thinking about the best places to dress it up with art.

Kienzle is City Hall’s arts and cultural affairs liaison, responsible for working with the city Arts Commission, artists, and cultural organizations to invest in public art on city properties. The city recently put about $11,000 into decorative fencing at Fire Station No. 23, for example, to beautify the yard while providing a little bit of privacy for the crew, and $207,000 for a memorial sculpture at the new downtown police department headquarters.

The convention center’s total budget is $288 million, via the Metropolitan Area Projects temporary 1-percent sales tax. However, city ordinance keys a 1-percent art contribution to construction costs on public properties, so the projected art budget will likely be closer to $1.86 million, MAPS 3 project manager Todd said.

Even allowing for management costs, that’s a significant amount of money for art, Kienzle said. Then again, the convention center is a significant undertaking: 200,000 square feet for an exhibit hall, 45,000 square feet for meeting space and 30,000 square feet for a ballroom. It will lie east of the 70-acre MAPS Park, bounded on the north by SW Fourth Street, south by SW Seventh Street, west by Robinson Avenue and east by Shields Boulevard.

The center will be adjacent to a high-rise luxury Omni-branded hotel and 865-space parking garage. Kinziel said the convention center is considered a separate site for determining art budgeting and installations. City officials are considering a traffic roundabout or circle on Robinson Avenue at SW Seventh Street, adjacent to the center’s south parking lot, large enough for semi-trucks to maneuver.

Kinziel said that after meeting several times with the convention center design firm, Kansas-based Populous, she envisions one of the outside art installations will serve a second, functional purpose of site branding of some sort. That art should help visitors know they’ve arrived at the facility, she said – in short, a signature landmark.

“We talk about some of the things they would have liked to have included in the design but couldn’t afford because of value engineering or other constraints,” she said.

City officials try to provide guidance so artists can meet expectations of appropriateness without too many creativity-stifling constraints, she said. In outlining requests for proposals, or RFPs, staff and commission members provide information such as the budget, history of the site, surrounding environment and overall intent of the art.

Kinziel said two other commissions are being considered as well, inside the center at the main atrium and secondary atrium to the south.

Kinziel is eager now for the formal budget figure so RFPs can go out in a nationwide search. That information is expected within the next few weeks.

There’s little reason to rush the process, however, since convention center construction isn’t scheduled to begin until March or April. The Downtown Design Review Committee is still considering alley easements for the area.

I swear I don't think I've seen one public project in OKC that I haven't seen the word value engineering associated with it in one way or another.

I swear I don't think I've seen one public project in OKC that I haven't seen the word value engineering associated with it in one way or another.
Value engineering occurs on virtually every public or private project .

Value engineering occurs on virtually every public or private project .
At least publicly, i don't see it in California. If it does, then it's behind closed doors.

^^^ If Rover means here in OK/OKC, it's absolutely true and why a lot of the stuff here (in road construction and other things, not just public art) is so half-assed and needs fixing way sooner (ha) than it should.

^^^ If Rover means here in OK/OKC, it's absolutely true and why a lot of the stuff here (in road construction and other things, not just public art) is so half-assed and needs fixing way sooner (ha) than it should.
NO. I mean all over the world. I've worked 100s of projects in virtually every state and more than 30 countries and value engineering goes on everywhere. Owners are always looking for ways to save money.

At least publicly, i don't see it in California. If it does, then it's behind closed doors.

Worked 5 years in California. Believe me, value engineering is a regular topic.

You can see they have cleared almost all the buildings to make room for the convention center and Omni.

One exception is the OG&E data center in the lower left corner, which the City is still trying to acquire for a parking garage.

They have also filed final plans for approval by the Downtown Design Review Committee.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail093017a.jpg

final plans for the convention center, the Omni, or both? are there changes from what we've already seen?

You can see they have cleared almost all the buildings to make room for the convention center and Omni.

One exception is the OG&E data center in the lower left corner, which the City is still trying to acquire for a parking garage.

They have also filed final plans for approval by the Downtown Design Review Committee.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail093017a.jpg

Damn, OGE won't fork over that tiny little property even though they were basically gifted the stage center property?

Tiny? That lot is huge.

Tiny? That lot is huge.

Oops sorry, I thought he was referencing the building directly north of the substation.

When is construction scheduled to start?

Was wondering the same thing. Seems it has taken a long time to get this project started.

Was wondering the same thing. Seems it has taken a long time to get this project started.

I can't even come close to agreeing. The agreement with Omni was literally signed just a couple months ago. As far as I know, construction is scheduled to begin some time next year, with a target date to be open 2020. Looks like they're exactly where they expect to be in the timeline right now.

They have to first move the power station, get design approval, have building permits filed and approved and get construction bids.

All that stuff is on-going and work should start sometime in 2018.

When I voted for approval of the maps tax in 2009 I really hadn't given much thought to the timeline of when the convention center would open but if you had told me it would take eleven years, I would have been quite surprised.

When I voted for approval of the maps tax in 2009 I really hadn't given much thought to the timeline of when the convention center would open but if you had told me it would take eleven years, I would have been quite surprised.

Yes, but if you told someone from another city that from the time we approved a new cc til it was fully paid for was only 11 years, they would be amazed.

Why would this surprise you?

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/maps-history

"Every MAPS initiative has essentially been a 10 to 12-year process, and the same is expected of MAPS 3."

https://www.okc.gov/government/maps-3/about-maps-3

"Voter approved: Dec. 8, 2009
Tax duration: April 2010 to December 2017
Construction duration: 2012 to 2021 (scheduled)"

Again, 100% precisely on schedule.

When I voted for approval of the maps tax in 2009 I really hadn't given much thought to the timeline of when the convention center would open but if you had told me it would take eleven years, I would have been quite surprised.

On the initial timeline it was to be one of the last projects started and completed, then influential members of the convention center committee used their considerable influence to move it way up, but ultimately there was the debacle with trying to obtain the site south of the Myriad Gardens and due to those delays the timing ended up pretty much as originally planned.

I think alot of that is just plain perception and ignorance (not in the bad use of the word) at the time. The first MAPS programs wee ambitious, but people really didn't have a broad interest in downtown, or even OKC for that matter, like you do now. People didn't go downtown. People, for the most part, did not track these developments from conception to completion. Now that excitement and pride in downtown have boomed, people aren't just watching from afar. People are going to meetings, people are watching things happen from conception. For people who aren't watching, and don't care the transformation of the Scissortail Park area will be an overnight change. They aren't paying attention to the planning and ground work. They will drive by one day and see a big building under construction, and two years later they will say "Wow! That came up out of nowhere!". The rest of us have been waiting a decade or more.

I see this effect strongly now when I come back to visit, I don't keep up with this stuff like I used to. When I come back home even after several months, I am amazed at the changes. If you are watching from a distance, things are happening fast!

I'm made this point several times and will do again:

The City never reports against original timelines, budgets and scope. They merely keep changing the reports to show the latest projections, which are continually shifting. For example, the river projects are now labeled as complete but nowhere on current reports does it show there were to be a whole list of things -- like a grandstand and windscreen -- that just got cut. That is also not reflected in the budget.

I've never seen this done in business before. Imagine being a project manager and reporting monthly to your boss and never addressing the original promises made when the project was approved.

The only way to figure this out is to keep the original documents then do your own comparison and the contrast is startling. And as near as I can determine, this happens on all large City projects, not just MAPS 3.

The net effect is that everything always seems to be on schedule and on budget because they merely change the numbers and dates and the amount of work being done to match what actually is happening, rather than reporting against what was originally promised. Not only is it a terrible business practice, it also means there is no way to recognize and correct chronic problems like consistently under budgeting and being hugely unrealistic on timing. Not coincidentally, almost every major City project is way over budget (we just cut way back on the amount of work to be delivered) and time. Then for each subsequent project, we make the same mistakes over and over and find something new to blame like utilities or weather or things we should be able to figure out and make contingencies for in advance.

This goes largely unnoticed because it's very easy to get changes approved by just cutting items and revising timelines. The City Manager writes up a memo, City Council approves (without the benefit of seeing what was originally agreed to in the first place, often years if not decades prior). And the local media just publish what the City tells them without verifying or asking educated questions.


I'll pull together an update based on original promises and you'll see what I mean.

Here is the MAPS 3 Timeline that was published and shared with the public in March 2011; this had already been revised multiple times.

You can see the only two projects even close to schedule are the convention center and whitewater facility.

The others they missed by a country mile, even after drastically reducing the scope of promised work for the river, sidewalks and scale backs of the fairgrounds facility.

And these huge misses are on our FOURTH MAPS initiative. Clearly, we are not learning as we go.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/maps3timelinemarch2011.jpg

Just like we go to other cities and assume they are acting so fast when in fact they don't usually move faster than here. Realistically, city evolution is a long, drawn out process occurring over decades. In our microwave society we want things done immediately and often don't understand all that has to happen to make change occur. Amazing things have been happening in OKC, but not overnight.

.....sigh....

Just like we go to other cities and assume they are acting so fast when in fact they don't usually move faster than here. Realistically, city evolution is a long, drawn out process occurring over decades. In our microwave society we want things done immediately and often don't understand all that has to happen to make change occur. Amazing things have been happening in OKC, but not overnight.

I so agree with you sir.....but what Pete just highlighted above is a bit concerning at the least.

When I used to keep up with the Maps 3 subcommittees it seemed they only met once a month. Or maybe it was city council hearing the remarks from the subcommittees. But it made me wonder, why once a month? Then again if it isn't a full time city official job then who am I to suggest they come in on their free time to do MORE work even FASTER. Ill be glad when they finish the park and streetcar though.

Look, I'm definitely not saying all couldn't be better. But after decades in the construction industry I can tell you it isn't like being in a laboratory where you can hold all variables constant. Economies change, politics change, land values and availability change, as-built drawing and plans turn out to be wrong, contractors fail, bids don't come in as projected (for many reasons), law suits happen from well intentioned as well as obstructionists, egos get in the way,, people screw up, etc., etc., etc. Happens in private and public projects. And, the longer the time frames, the more opportunity for issues to arise there are.
I think if you got down in the weeds with most voters and described all the things that MIGHT go wrong (many of which WILL go wrong) then we might not get anything passed. Where would OKC be without the MAPs projects? Let's face it, OKC has been a poor town with lagging revenue for a very long time. We have a culture of extreme conservatism that doesn't promote change easily. And yet, we are pulling ourselves out of the muck and mire to make a pretty good city to live in. It isn't yet where it needs to be but it is much, much better. I think if you could describe and show pictures of today's OKC and what it will be in 5 years to the first MAPS voters they would be pretty satisfied that they have been good investments...screw-ups and all.

Here is the MAPS 3 Timeline that was published and shared with the public in March 2011; this had already been revised multiple times.

You can see the only two projects even close to schedule are the convention center and whitewater facility.

The others they missed by a country mile, even after drastically reducing the scope of promised work for the river, sidewalks and scale backs of the fairgrounds facility.

And these huge misses are on our FOURTH MAPS initiative. Clearly, we are not learning as we go.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/maps3timelinemarch2011.jpg



Of course this has been revised you posted a conceptual schedule. At least post the original adopted final schedule as a point of original reference

The transit project for example added and investigation and standards phase to the beginning of its schedule. Also at a later point the 2 phases where combined into a single phase and Even against the schedule you posted the project will be completed maybe 3 month behind schedule. Not close to the “at least a year”

^

All the schedules say "conceptual schedule".

Even more recent ones. And there were several before the one I shared.

That is the point. They never set a schedule or scope and report against it. It's all conceptual until it's finished and they just keep revising it until everything is complete.

Look, I'm definitely not saying all couldn't be better. But after decades in the construction industry I can tell you it isn't like being in a laboratory where you can hold all variables constant. Economies change, politics change, land values and availability change, as-built drawing and plans turn out to be wrong, contractors fail, bids don't come in as projected (for many reasons), law suits happen from well intentioned as well as obstructionists, egos get in the way,, people screw up, etc., etc., etc. Happens in private and public projects. And, the longer the time frames, the more opportunity for issues to arise there are.
...

But constantly years off (or the scope being reduced because they couldn't figure out a proper budget) for a huge amount (maybe a majority, I don't know for sure) of projects over the past umpteen years (don't know how many years it's been going on, only moved back in 2009) should not ever, ever, ever be acceptable. If your construction company blew deadlines by as much as OKC does and for as many months/years as they do, would they still be in business?

All said and done, late, timely, over or under budget if the MAPS program was non-existent, we'd really suck.

I remember the '70's and 80's.

But constantly years off (or the scope being reduced because they couldn't figure out a proper budget) for a huge amount (maybe a majority, I don't know for sure) of projects over the past umpteen years (don't know how many years it's been going on, only moved back in 2009) should not ever, ever, ever be acceptable. If your construction company blew deadlines by as much as OKC does and for as many months/years as they do, would they still be in business?
So, your opinion is Maps has been a colossal failure? Corruption or just Okie ineptness?

So, your opinion is Maps has been a colossal failure? Corruption or just Okie ineptness?

Wow, misinterpretations of what I actually typed abound all over tonight. Blowing deadlines by months or years, and all the other info that Pete posted are actual facts, not opinions. Can you answer the question I posed - If your construction company did the same thing, how long would they be in business?

So basically just government, late and overbudget is SOP

Wow, misinterpretations of what I actually typed abound all over tonight. Blowing deadlines by months or years, and all the other info that Pete posted are actual facts, not opinions. Can you answer the question I posed - If your construction company did the same thing, how long would they be in business?
We aren’t talking about simple construction project failure. We are talking development of lots of projects with lots of moving parts. Oversimplification Leads to many wrong assumptions and judgements.

^

All the schedules say "conceptual schedule".

Even more recent ones. And there were several before the one I shared.

That is the point. They never set a schedule or scope and report against it. It's all conceptual until it's finished and they just keep revising it until everything is complete.

Pete thank you for bringing this to light. Without this type of information, we can never get better as a city. If the city doesn't nail the MAPS projects, I fear we will never have more. That said... who do we contact about this? Council? Mayor?

We aren’t talking about simple construction project failure. We are talking development of lots of projects with lots of moving parts. Oversimplification Leads to many wrong assumptions and judgements.

Yes, these are complex projects. But there is no reason that there can't be revisions to a plan, schedule, budget, and scope, and a clear accounting of why each revision occurred and what scope items had to be deleted to accommodate the unanticipated costs. It happens daily on hundreds and hundreds of projects of equal or greater complexity across the nation every day. Project owners typically expect and understand hiccups, but demand a current and accurate explanation and support for the changes. However, as Pete aptly points out, for OKC projects, none of this happening in a public forum, and as (taxpayers) project owners we should absolutely demand the same level of detail and accounting.

It's pretty simple. Contractor Acme encountered 200 linear feet of unanticipated 8" water supply pipe conflicting with the proposed sanitary sewer. Costs to resolve the conflict are: $10K engineering costs, $80K construction costs, and delayed the delivery of contracts X, Y and Z by 60 days. This also caused the start of Phase D of the work to slip 60 days. Instead, Public Works and other involved departments and entities give us a rosy picture with absolutely no accountability and essentially say just trust us, and by the way, we will not be held accountable for not meeting scope, schedule or budget regardless, because we're not gonna tell you. This entirely avoids the timely raising of red flags for poor execution and squashes the burden of accountability from the get go.

I'm not saying for one minute that the collective entities that have conceived and achieved all the progress we've seen since the earliest days of MAPS haven't delivered amazing stuff, but the manner in which it has been executed does not engender much confidence that everything is above board. The message I get is "Don't ask questions. Trust us. We're much smarter than you". And even more critical, we, the (taxpayer) project owners (cast our votes) decide on a path forward with discrete quantities (I.e., 95 miles of sidewalk) and once the plan is approved, it is immediately a soft, negotiable objective in the eyes of the (City) project manager because, of course they won't provide data that can hold them to account.

Combine this with the nebulous way that these projects are conceived and promoted, the behind the scenes unaudited, but paid role that Alliance plays, the influence of the Chamber and folks like Mr. Nichols (decider for the failed fine dining restaurant at the Gardens, against the advice of restaurant experts at the expense of a planned everyman's food venue that would have served far more of the (taxpayers) project owners), along with the egregious overreach of the various appointed planning and design review commissions, it appears the whole show is run by elitists that can't be troubled to explain and account for themselves. This has been working out for them for quite some time, but inquiring minds want to know. Most of all, what has been swept under the rug, and what has been promoted to the benefit of a select few,at the expense of the (taxpayer) project owners.

Don’t we have several members of various Maps committees who contribute here on this site? Let’s ask them why they have been sweeping things under the rug and why the process is apparently so corrupt? Why they as elitists are refusing to be transparent with us citizens.

I'd be thrilled to hear it. Especially from the Sidewalks Committee, the Senior Health and Wellness Committee, the Riversports Rapids Committee, the Convention Center Committee and the Sidewalks Committee, however, you boil it down to groups of people selected at the midpoint of the process charged with playing the hand they were dealt. A great deal of my issues are with the way the prior set of deciders handled their work. As for the committees, they made no promises and probably had no hand in the scope or budget presented for the vote to proceed. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to vigorously tip my hat to the Streetcar committee for being extraordinarily informative about their process (largely on this site, but not entirely at all).

I'd be thrilled to hear it. Especially from the Sidewalks Committee, the Senior Health and Wellness Committee, the Riversports Rapids Committee, the Convention Center Committee and the Sidewalks Committee. They are all likely to have enlightening insight on how things went down. However, you boil it down to groups of people selected at the midpoint of the process charged with playing the hand they were dealt. A great deal of my issues are with the way the prior set of deciders handled their work. As for the committees, they made no promises and probably had no hand in the scope or budget presented for the vote to proceed. Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to vigorously tip my hat to the Streetcar committee for being extraordinarily informative about their process (largely on this site, but not entirely at all).

But constantly years off (or the scope being reduced because they couldn't figure out a proper budget) for a huge amount (maybe a majority, I don't know for sure) of projects over the past umpteen years (don't know how many years it's been going on, only moved back in 2009) should not ever, ever, ever be acceptable. If your construction company blew deadlines by as much as OKC does and for as many months/years as they do, would they still be in business?

One of the difficulties in MAPs projects is that its a sales tax driven revenue system. So the projects are planned for X number of dollars, and the term of the tax is ESTIMATED to be X number of years to collect enough to meet that demand. What we've seen in several instances, is that sales taxes did not collect enough in the allotted time to meet the budget requirements. And some projects ended up costing more, which happens in construction. Have you ever seen anyone build a home off the very first cost estimate? These are projects that take years to complete so the economy can fluctuate up and down, and so can prices.

There is an oversight board to counter the very problems that you describe, and i think you would find that the overwhelming majority of the city's population feel like they have done a good job. And that they have done a good job at explaining what happened if they have asked for an extension. In at least one case, the extension was to add a NEW project (The Ford Center expansion post Thunder).

Project 180 isn't maps, but is also reliant on income from the TIF district. As the rate of collections change, so does the ability of the city to fund the projects being worked on...thus extending out the timelines. Are we all tired of downtown constantly being under construction? Sure the hell are. But i'm also glad to not see a pile of debt with interest to pay.

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to vigorously tip my hat to the Streetcar committee for being extraordinarily informative about their process (largely on this site, but not entirely at all).

From the four or five of us that are active on the site, thanks. Our committee has been meeting nearly every month since 2010. The campaign actually began in late 2008. I'd say all of us are excited to see the project coming into actual fruition. It is heartening to see so many people at work constructing it. While many of us wanted it to happen sooner, OKC's streetcar may well benefit from it taking so long to plan and build. It has really given us a chance to design and build a resilient system hopefully avoid a great many of the issues that other cities have faced.

One general observation that hasn't been highlighted in the dialogue is that we are using actual cash instead of loans and bonds. I think that this may also have an influence on accountability. The City Manager isn't held to any 3rd party accountability and I think that makes a difference in the leadership's willingness to simply revise plans and schedules to meet very generalized goals. I am not defending it, but simply highlighting that this is a major difference that probably contributes to fluidity in the programs. There is a general willingness by the City Council to simply scale back ambitions to be fiduciarily responsible to the overall monies budgeted and collected.

Where politics will come to the forefront in the coming year is how unused contingency funds and surpluses are used. Perhaps some of the scalebacks will be corrected. Ironically, I think a case could be made on many projects that the delays have actually benefited the overall city and that these projects are being more thoughtfully designed and built because of it.

Sorry for the echo of sentiments Bomber. I guess we were typing at the same time. lol Highlighting the cash element is a major one.

But even in the case of the people here that have been actively involved in the streetcar committee, do any of you have the slightest clue about the schedule for finishing Santa Fe Station?

I did an article about a month ago and asked at that time, and absolutely no one could give me an answer. Just vague references to the tunnel to Bricktown being delayed due to the railroad.

This is exactly the type of thing that bothers me. Even the citizen committee doesn't know and when the City is asked directly, you can't even get a direct answer. So, they have now missed the timeline and there doesn't seem to be any commitment to a new time goal.

I've managed big construction projects and understand their complex nature, but it's this complete lack of accountability that is so maddening.


The bottom line is this: In specific projects that can be separated out and tracked (MAPS, Project 180, the City's piece of the OKC Boulevard) they are consistently way, way past the time estimates they provide, constantly miss budgets and cause lots of reduction in scope accordingly, and are pretty vague about even providing updates.

But even in the case of the people here that have been actively involved in the streetcar committee, do any of you have the slightest clue about the schedule for finishing Santa Fe Station?

Yes we do.

I did an article about a month ago and asked at that time, and absolutely no one could give me an answer. Just vague references to the tunnel to Bricktown being delayed due to the railroad.

I missed your question about this as I do not visit the site every day. BNSF has held up the project. We are completely at their mercy. Even the Federal Government who has $14 million invested has to wait on BNSF. The street and plaza around the building was delayed by a major buried pipeline that had to be excavated 20' below the surface of the street and modified.

This is exactly the type of thing that bothers me. Even the citizen committee doesn't know. So, they have now missed the timeline and there doesn't seem to be any commitment to a new time goal.

We do know.

-it's this complete lack of accountability that is so maddening.

The streetcar, Santa Fe Station, and related oversight has been completely accountable to our committee.


The bottom line is this: In specific projects that can be separated out and tracked (MAPS, Project 180, the City's piece of the OKC Boulevard) they are consistently way, way past the time estimates they provide, constantly miss budgets and cause lots of reduction in scope accordingly, and are pretty vague about even providing updates.

Feel free to apply those sentiments anywhere but towards our project. I can't speak for those. Your sentiments are not unfounded and without merit.

^

So what is the timeline now?



Honestly, regardless of project, there always seems to be something like this either not contemplated or severely under-estimated.

I'm not picking on the committee here because they rely on the City to come up with basic information and to take care of many of these things.

The OKC Boulevard Uhaul work-around in Bricktown is a classic example. Why on earth are they just now pursuing eminent domain when this project was planned for a decade? Why is Project 180 taking double the estimated time frame to do about half the work promised?

Seems to be very much a recurring theme. Yes, there are difficulties but 1) be realistic when making promises about timelines and budgets and 2) get way out in front of them as early as possible.

Again, I understand the complexities but this happens over and over again on a wide variety of projects and there doesn't seem to be any changes ever made, and thus we keep running into the same problems.

In what other job could you miss deadlines by years and go way over budget and just have those in charge say, "Well, what are you going to do? On to the next one."

Let me expand on the tunnel. When urban says the city is at bnsf’s mercy he mean 100% the city can’t hire the contractors to go under the tracks or do the work. They transfer the money to BNSF and they manage/do the work. So there is no way to know when that will occur. It is very very much at their leasire.

Let me expand on the tunnel. When urban says the city is at bnsf’s mercy he mean 100% the city can’t hire the contractors to go under the tracks or do the work. They transfer the money to BNSF and they manage/do the work. So there is no way to know when that will occur. It is very very much at their leasire.

Understood but that is part of this project and that was known from the beginning.

The same was true for the OKC Boulevard and several other projects. Not like the City didn't know about it from the start.

^

So what is the timeline now?



Current goal is to have the streetcar system completely operational by November of 2018. Parts of it will come online before then and there will be a lengthy testing period as well. We keep making improvements to the design and have been modifying the schedule accordingly. Generally speaking, the contractor is encouraged through the use of penalties to stay on our schedule. Recent schedule creep is pretty much due to changes that our committee recommends be made as we identify issues and opportunities to improve the system. Because we are under budget, we have a a fair bit of flexibility as well to authorize improvements to the design as we move down each street.

Current goal is to have the streetcar system completely operational by November of 2018. Parts of it will come online before then and there will be a lengthy testing period as well. We keep making improvements to the design and have been modifying the schedule accordingly. Generally speaking, the contractor is encouraged through the use of penalties to stay on our schedule. Recent schedule creep is pretty much due to changes that our committee recommends be made as we identify issues and opportunities to improve the system. Because we are under budget, we have a a fair bit of flexibility as well to authorize improvements to the design as we move down each street.

Pete's frustration:


do any of you have the slightest clue about the schedule for finishing Santa Fe Station?


Yes we do.


So what is the timeline now?


Current goal is to have the streetcar system completely operational by November of 2018.

So now that this site is associate with KFOR it would be reasonable to take this discussion from accusations and innuendo to actual investigative reporting. We should be able to do a wiki investigation with our members supplying leads for kfor news to follow up on and expose, prove or disprove. That would be accountability would it not? Isolate the corrupt and inept and get them fired and prosecuted where deemed right to do so.

In no way am I suggesting corruption, just lack of accountability that leads to making the same mistakes over and over again.

A light needs to be shined and changes need to be made.

Pete's frustration:

Well it shouldn't be... Again, we are waiting Burlington Northern Santa Fe Railroad as explained earlier. They have not given us an approval to proceed. That has nothing to do with a lack of accountability or ineptitude with the City and/or our committee.

In no way am I suggesting corruption, just lack of accountability that leads to making the same mistakes over and over again.

A light needs to be shined and changes need to be made.
So, are you going to use your influence at KFOR to turn the spotlight on those you are so sure are messing up? As this site is now a part of the media and not just a bulletin board, there is a responsibility to dig and expose. With KFOR there should be muscle. If we are serious about changing and not just complaining, let’s get to it.

So, are you going to use your influence at KFOR to turn the spotlight on those you are so sure are messing up? As this site is now a part of the media and not just a bulletin board, there is a responsibility to dig and expose. With KFOR there should be muscle. If we are serious about changing and not just complaining, let’s get to it.

Let's? Got a mouse in your pocket?? ;)

So, are you going to use your influence at KFOR to turn the spotlight on those you are so sure are messing up? As this site is now a part of the media and not just a bulletin board, there is a responsibility to dig and expose. With KFOR there should be muscle. If we are serious about changing and not just complaining, let’s get to it.

Agreed, that would be great! I have asked (of multiple things in multiple places, not just OKCTalk) "OK, so how do we fix it?" or "What can we, the average citizen) do about this?" or other variations of the same, and pretty much gotten crickets or "nothing, nobody's accountable to anybody anymore, except shareholders and Wall Street, so you don't matter". It would be fantastic if we, the people, actually meant something again...