When it does eventually get removed, will the city divide it into the four original blocks it used to be or will it continue to remain the obtrusive "superblock?"

The City commissioned a study that recommended restoring the street grid.

That will make the area much easier to navigate, especially by foot, and better connect the train station to the rest of downtown.

maps 4 might be on the way i think i just saw something on the city`s facebook they said there is a new bond package coming september 12th.

When it does eventually get removed, will the city divide it into the four original blocks it used to be or will it continue to remain the obtrusive "superblock?"

Return to 4 blks with 4 skyscrapers and retail would be a real game changer.

This would be my dream: restore the street grid and rebuild some of the urbanity that was lost during urban renewal, and even rebuild some notable buildings such as the Baum Building and the Herskowitz Building (two of my favorites that were demolished). :D

SketchUp modeling I've been doing for fun:
https://s28.postimg.org/da5zocxvh/cc_site_1.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/hjt9jdhvb/cc_site_2.jpg

This would be my dream: restore the street grid and rebuild some of the urbanity that was lost during urban renewal, and even rebuild some notable buildings such as the Baum Building and the Herskowitz Building (two of my favorites that were demolished). :D

SketchUp modeling I've been doing for fun:
https://s28.postimg.org/da5zocxvh/cc_site_1.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/hjt9jdhvb/cc_site_2.jpg

That looks nice but need some talls in there and it would look even better.

Oh that would be amazing!!!!!

maps 4 might be on the way i think i just saw something on the city`s facebook they said there is a new bond package coming september 12th.
That is totally different than MAPS.

Will the new convention center have a lot higher capacity or just a little bit?

This would be my dream: restore the street grid and rebuild some of the urbanity that was lost during urban renewal, and even rebuild some notable buildings such as the Baum Building and the Herskowitz Building (two of my favorites that were demolished). :D

SketchUp modeling I've been doing for fun:
https://s28.postimg.org/da5zocxvh/cc_site_1.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/hjt9jdhvb/cc_site_2.jpg

This is a good start, but hey man, next time you go into that mock-up, I'd love to see a sort of plan where the street-grid is pedestrian only and the "intersection" of California and Broadway is actually a town square type element.

I've posted in the Cox thread a bazillion times about a basic idea that I think would provide major momentum for OKC to go from a Tier 3 to a Tier 2 city if this block is developed correctly. You can find it here: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=23849&page=4&p=852246#post852246

It would be cool to see a rendering that showed a super cool public space right at the heart of that intersection.

Will the new convention center have a lot higher capacity or just a little bit?

Cox is listed as having 100,000 sq. feet of exhibit space. The new center will have one exhibit hall alone with 200,000.

Cox is listed as having 100,000 sq. feet of exhibit space. The new center will have one exhibit hall alone with 200,000.

damn

What do you all think of this design?13538

This would be my dream: restore the street grid and rebuild some of the urbanity that was lost during urban renewal, and even rebuild some notable buildings such as the Baum Building and the Herskowitz Building (two of my favorites that were demolished). :D

SketchUp modeling I've been doing for fun:
https://s28.postimg.org/da5zocxvh/cc_site_1.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/hjt9jdhvb/cc_site_2.jpg

I have day dreamed many times of someone that could combine my love of old long gone buildings with the talent of rendering something in 3D what I'm imagining in my head. I've actually fantasized about this exact same idea on the former Cox site. Great job! I know it is extremely far fetched but our idea here rendered is the kind of thing that could get ideas going. Similar to an artist drawing concepts of fantasy movie characters or locations. If you needed any help....

This would be my dream: restore the street grid and rebuild some of the urbanity that was lost during urban renewal, and even rebuild some notable buildings such as the Baum Building and the Herskowitz Building (two of my favorites that were demolished). :D

SketchUp modeling I've been doing for fun:
https://s28.postimg.org/da5zocxvh/cc_site_1.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/hjt9jdhvb/cc_site_2.jpg

Great work Kayne.

Thank you all for your feedbacks!

What do you all think of this design?13538

About a B+ for OKC considering that the convention center was the least popular project in MAPS 3.

Look at the current Cox Convention Center (43 years old, obsolete & antiquated) there is no way we could complete with cities like Fort Worth, Omaha, Louisville & Tulsa for conventions.

Hey KayneMo do you have a Twitter? I can't send/receive any more messages here or I would contact you.

This new convention center IMO looks a lot better than the big concrete block we have now

Hey KayneMo do you have a Twitter? I can't send/receive any more messages here or I would contact you.

I don't have a Twitter but I'm on Facebook! Do you have Facebook?

Yes, sure do. Thread hijack over! :backtotop

This would be my dream: restore the street grid and rebuild some of the urbanity that was lost during urban renewal, and even rebuild some notable buildings such as the Baum Building and the Herskowitz Building (two of my favorites that were demolished). :D

SketchUp modeling I've been doing for fun:
https://s28.postimg.org/da5zocxvh/cc_site_1.jpg

https://s29.postimg.org/hjt9jdhvb/cc_site_2.jpg

Great mock-up, and wow does it really drive just how much downtown real estate the Cox occupies.

The Cox site has the potential to be a new transit hub similar to what Denver did with their Union Station. With Union Depot on the eastern end and terminus you could put a new bus terminal underground underneath a new California Ave from Robinson to EK Gaylord. Then you could have bus, train (commuter rail and Amtrak) and streetcar all in one place. Then, just like Denver, build new residential and office towers on the restored street grid between Robinson, EK Gaylord, Reno and Sheridan. That could become the urban transit-oriented neighborhood in OKC.

The transit hub for the next 50 year will be across the street at union station.

Cox won't be

The transit hub for the next 50 year will be across the street at union station.

Cox won't be

Do you actually know about the Denver Union Station or did research on it? Granted I don't see Oklahoma City needing or being able to support something on this scale, I would hope we look at it for inspiration when we redevelop the cox center site.

What we are calling our future transit center is just one small part of the Denver Union station. The cities bus terminal isn't that old, but it would be nice if it was right there with the hub.

Denver's transformation of the union station area has been remarkable. I just don't see OKC being able to pull off the same thing because Denver now has citywide rail transit. It has rail transit ( though unreliable so-far) to an international airport, it has Amtrak service to both coasts and i. the winter it has the ski train. Denver is the rare city where both business and young people want to be downtown. I see some of that in OKC but there will have to be more opportunities and easier investment money available. Someone needs to take that first step and build the first high-rise residential near the park and the river. OKC needs to create more cool things to do downtown. The canal could be the key but it needs to be expanded into the Central Park area.

This is what I was referencing for what OKC could do using Denver Union Station as the model for creating a true multi-modal transit hub with Union Depot for train, buses underground, Uber/Lyft on EK Gaylord and streetcar on Sheridan/Reno a block away. Not many cities have their main downtown train station next to such a large redevelopment area. Denver had a train yard and OKC has the Cox site which will be obsolete in a few years. What an amazing opportunity!

http://cbsdenver.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/denverunionstation_creditrtd.jpg?w=420&h=362

They are well underway on the new OG&E substation which has to be constructed before the other one can be moved:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/substation021017.jpg

They are well underway on the new OG&E substation which has to be constructed before the other one can be moved:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/substation021017.jpg

It just seems dumb to put the substation right there when they'll have to move it again in another 10 or 15 years.

It just seems dumb to put the substation right there when they'll have to move it again in another 10 or 15 years.

I was thinking the exact same thing. It just seems like development will move that direction before too long.

A big part of that is it had to be near the current site... Not many other options.

Also, that land was already owned by OKC and allowed for a land swap otherwise a lot more money would have to come out of the MAPS 3 budget. That tactic is a bit dubious IMO and I've made this point before, because effectively city is spending an asset but not counting it against the convention center budget.

Press release from the City:

Oklahoma City Council approves MAPS 3 Convention Center preliminary report

The Oklahoma City Council voted Tuesday to approve the preliminary report for the MAPS 3 Downtown Convention Center, bringing it one step closer to its scheduled groundbreaking late this year.

The convention center, to be located south of Chesapeake Energy Arena adjacent to the future MAPS 3 Park, will feature sleek modern design, sweeping downtown views, 200,000 square feet of exhibit space, 45,000 square feet of meeting rooms and a 30,000-square-foot ballroom.

“We’ve always considered the new convention center to be a community space that serves as Oklahoma City’s living room,” Oklahoma City Mayor Mick Cornett said. “The preliminary report shows it all coming together, and the next steps are the final design and requesting bids from contractors.”

The massive exhibit hall dominates the ground floor and features three operable walls that can divide it into four smaller spaces, providing flexible layouts for different uses.

Meeting rooms are on all levels of the building, and many also have operable walls to make the spaces flexible. They can be configured to provide up to 27 individual meeting spaces.

The fourth level of the building is dedicated to the ballroom, which is complemented by 10,000 square feet of pre-function space and a 4,000-square-foot panoramic balcony.

Informal meeting spaces, a kitchen, a potential café space, an expansive loading dock and administrative offices are also planned for the convention center.

The gleaming, angular façade has towering glass walls to make maximum use of natural light and takes its design cues from Oklahoma City’s sky, landscape and architectural character.

The building will also make use of design elements and construction materials to maximize energy efficiency and resilience against weather conditions, which is especially important for a west-facing building in Oklahoma City’s unpredictable climate.

The interior design combines metallic, reflective surfaces with warm, rich wood tones and stacked stone textures.

Landscaping outside the convention center will use native plants and trees well-suited to the local climate, with a focus on sustainability, comfort and beauty. A central plaza and other inviting spaces will help the convention center’s exterior come alive with activity.

Wayfinding stations inside and outside the convention center will be interactive.

The estimated total cost of the convention center is about $194 million. The MAPS 3 Downtown Convention Center project budget is $288 million and includes other costs like property acquisition.

About MAPS 3
MAPS 3 is a $777 million capital improvement program to improve the quality of life in Oklahoma City. It is funded by a 1-cent sales tax initiative that began in April 2010 and ends in December 2017. MAPS 3 funds eight projects: Downtown Convention Center, Downtown Public Park, Modern Streetcar/Transit, Oklahoma River Improvements, Oklahoma State Fairgrounds Improvements, Senior Health and Wellness Centers, Trails and Sidewalks.

A couple of new renderings included in that release.

The second and third show the proposed Fairfield Inn along Shields with another structure to the south. That land is owned by the City and likely they will likely put out an RFP to developers in the future.

Also shows the proposed parking structure to the east of the Omni hotel.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cc022817a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cc022817b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cc022817d.jpg

Here's another interesting graphic that shows the pedestrian flow from the CBD all the way to the river.

Also, we have a new district! 'Events District'

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cc022817c.jpg

Is the plan still for private development immediately West of CHK? From the renderings, it looks like it will bridge the gap with green space between the Botanical Gardens to Central Park. Wouldn't be a bad idea.

Is the plan still for private development immediately West of CHK? From the renderings, it looks like it will bridge the gap with green space between the Botanical Gardens to Central Park. Wouldn't be a bad idea.

The Midtown Renaissance group owns that property between Myriad Gardens and the MAPS 3 park and it will eventually be a mixed us project of some type but it seems we are a long ways away from them doing anything there.

Is the plan still for private development immediately West of CHK? From the renderings, it looks like it will bridge the gap with green space between the Botanical Gardens to Central Park. Wouldn't be a bad idea.

That appears to be a placeholder so they wouldn't have to put an ugly, beat-up parking lot in their shiny rendering. You can see they did the same thing at the Co-op with the grass surrounding the buildings instead of dirt and gravel. As Pete said, there will eventually be some sort of private development of that lot.

Seeing the south elevation in the view from Shields is pretty disappointing IMO and I really hope the north elevation isn't the same. Looks almost exactly like the Cox Center and those kinds of monolithic facades on the new CC would have the same effect on surrounding blocks. This is especially a letdown given how well broken-up the west elevation is.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the Hotel is between the Boulevard and 4th, the CC itself is between 4th and 6th, with a parking lot between 6th and 7th. Is this parking lot still meant to be a site for future expansion of the Convention Center? Is anything going to happen with the land south of 7th between Robinson and Shields? And what about the cool old brick building at the NW corner of 7th and Broadway, will they raze it for surface parking?

Seeing the south elevation in the view from Shields is pretty disappointing IMO and I really hope the north elevation isn't the same. Looks almost exactly like the Cox Center and those kinds of monolithic facades on the new CC would have the same effect on surrounding blocks. This is especially a letdown given how well broken-up the west elevation is.

I assume the thought process is not to make the loading docks look pretty, as the view from Shields and the BNSF viaduct (that will eventually also carry commuter rail traffic) will be mostly obstructed from view by private development between Shields and the back of the new convention center.


Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong but it looks like the Hotel is between the Boulevard and 4th, the CC itself is between 4th and 6th, with a parking lot between 6th and 7th. Is this parking lot still meant to be a site for future expansion of the Convention Center? Is anything going to happen with the land south of 7th between Robinson and Shields? And what about the cool old brick building at the NW corner of 7th and Broadway, will they raze it for surface parking?

Yes, the large parking lot directly south of the Convention Center is designed to allow for easy expansion of the building, once it is warranted.

Unfortunately, the E. T. Leek building that formerly housed the Oklahoma Spring Bed Manufacturing Company is no more. It, along with the International Harvester building at SW 5th and Broadway, were demolished approximately 4-5 months ago.

Unfortunately, the E. T. Leek building that formerly housed the Oklahoma Spring Bed Manufacturing Company is no more. It, along with the International Harvester building at SW 5th and Broadway, were demolished approximately 4-5 months ago.

Ah well that's disappointing. I knew the Harvester building was being razed to make room for the realigned Broadway Ave, but I haven't driven in that area since last summer and the current Street View is from July of 2016 I believe.


I assume the thought process is not to make the loading docks look pretty, as the view from Shields and the BNSF viaduct (that will eventually also carry commuter rail traffic) will be mostly obstructed from view by private development between Shields and the back of the new convention center.

Are there loading docks on the south side? I got the impression from the renderings that they would be on the east side fronting Broadway. Either way, I suppose it doesn't reallymatter if the block is dead if there's just going to be surface parking there for the foreseeable future.

I'm still of the opinion that the Myriad wont be going anywhere any time soon, and when it does, you are NOT going to see a restored grid. It's too valuable to the city as the ability to build any new arenas on the two plots of the Myriad and the Peak. The city owns the land (which is often a huge portion of the plans for these things). I would expect that the Myriad lot may end up having more than just a new arena on it since there wont be a need for the large meeting space, but i bet you see meeting space there as part of the agreement with the Renaissance (or whatever they end up being). It's just too convenient where it is for any future flip/flop construction between the sites. If they want to, the city itself could always construct office space or some other leasable thing. It would be there for 30 years or so...short for an office space, but long enough to more than recover any ROI in it's construction while still making money off the land while it's held for the next arena.

As long as we have NBA, we're going to need to be thinking ahead to the next arena. There are very few places that have two arenas downtown like this. It's a unique opportunity (think Big XII tourney) that we shouldn't abandon so quickly. Especially since dozing it and putting in some roads does not ensure private development of the type we see above. Just like Core2Shore, any renderings are just a dream because it all depends on someone coming in with a private development. We're still 20-30 years away from seeing any real development in C2S and flooding the market with that much curb space downtown would just serve to drop the price of real estate.

IMO the next arena will be closer to the river (C2S) rather than closer to the CBD. Allows for more flexibility regarding parking options and land use and such. I'm not saying that's MY preferred option, just that its the direction I think the city will go. Heck I think there's a bigger chance of it going to Bricktown somewhere (such as next to the future soccer stadium) than on the Myriad/Cox CC site.

The City spent a lot of money for a study about how best to use that Cox Center land and the strong recommendation was for expansion of the Central Business District with high- and mid-rise office buildings.

The CBD is somewhat penned in and needs room to grow.

The City spent a lot of money for a study about how best to use that Cox Center land and the strong recommendation was for expansion of the Central Business District with high- and mid-rise office buildings.

The CBD is somewhat penned in and needs room to grow.

I think that I posted this somewhere some time ago...if nothing else, it's fun to think about...

13641

This is from the study I was referencing.

At the time, the convention center was planned for the property between Myriad Gardens and the MAPS 3 Park, and the whole point was to show how the surrounding area should be developed once we had a new cc and the Cox Center was demolished.

The study really should be completely reworked now that the convention center is going to the east of the park and represents more time, money and energy wasted on the previous site which of course the City never owned.

Anyway, it's fun to look at:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coxstudy1.jpg

The opportunities and potential for OKC's core are ridiculous. I can see OKC being a cutting edge and truly vibrant city (just speaking from downtown's perspective) if everything is executed to maximize usage and livability.

This is what has me so excited for the next 5-15 years because I can see things really taking off in that time frame.

This is from the study I was referencing.

At the time, the convention center was planned for the property between Myriad Gardens and the MAPS 3 Park, and the whole point was to show how the surrounding area should be developed once we had a new cc and the Cox Center was demolished.

The study really should be completely reworked now that the convention center is going to the east of the park and represents more time, money and energy wasted on the previous site which of course the City never owned.

Anyway, it's fun to look at:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/coxstudy1.jpg

Nice. I'm in favor of any plan that removes the Cox superblock. Doing so will not only allow the CBD to expand, but will open up the CBD to Santa Fe Station and to the heart of Bricktown by way of the pedestrian concourse that will soon be constructed as part of the redevelopment of the station. More importantly, at some point in the future when a regional transit system is in operation and thousands of people are arriving downtown everyday by way of Santa Fe Station, the station will become as important a gateway to the CBD as the Boulevard. By breaking up the superblock, there will be a tremendous opportunity to develop a very inviting front-door experience into the CBD from the station.

I think that I posted this somewhere some time ago...if nothing else, it's fun to think about...

13641

Yes please

I think that I posted this somewhere some time ago...if nothing else, it's fun to think about...

13641

From left to right: Looks like Fountain Place & Trammell Crow Center in Dallas:


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/31/Fountain_place.jpg/150px-Fountain_place.jpg https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5d/Dallas_Trammell_Crow_Center_2.jpg/150px-Dallas_Trammell_Crow_Center_2.jpg
Fountain Place (720 ft/62 storiees) & Trammell Crow Center (686 ft/50 stories)

Nice. I'm in favor of any plan that removes the Cox superblock. Doing so will not only allow the CBD to expand, but will open up the CBD to Santa Fe Station and to the heart of Bricktown by way of the pedestrian concourse that will soon be constructed as part of the redevelopment of the station. More importantly, at some point in the future when a regional transit system is in operation and thousands of people are arriving downtown everyday by way of Santa Fe Station, the station will become as important a gateway to the CBD as the Boulevard. By breaking up the superblock, there will be a tremendous opportunity to develop a very inviting front-door experience into the CBD from the station.

Yeah, keeping your core area locked up for 15+ years for an arena doesn't really make sense to me. I don't think the criteria for arena placement is as strict as it is for the convention center.

I think the city owns the Bass Pro building and parking lot doesn't it? We could perhaps build them a new building and look at building a new arena there.

Yeah, keeping your core area locked up for 15+ years for an arena doesn't really make sense to me. I don't think the criteria for arena placement is as strict as it is for the convention center.

I think the city owns the Bass Pro building and parking lot doesn't it? We could perhaps build them a new building and look at building a new arena there.

How do you think that would affect traffic if a new arena were built in the Bass Pro area.

A better long-term plan would be to find a site for a new arena with room for a large stadium where most of the parking could be shared.

I'm generally pretty optimistic about most things, but I think bombermwc might be correct here, even if it's for the wrong reasons (i.e., might not be because of an arena necessarily). The city has made great strides, but we still make a lot of boneheaded decisions when it comes to urban principles. Yes the Cox superblock is a great opportunity, but I'm not convinced that the powers that be are going to make the "right decision" for it by default. Those of us that care are going to have to fight, or we risk getting another Boulevard-type mistake.

How do you think that would affect traffic if a new arena were built in the Bass Pro area.

A better long-term plan would be to find a site for a new arena with room for a large stadium where most of the parking could be shared.

Yeah, I agree. The lumber mill/co ops site would be the best location for this. That would involve longer term planning and cooperation. No telling what will happen with the co op site in the years to come.

Again, we don't need a new arena. The reason the last round of arenas were built is because luxury suites became a big thing in the NBA, and you couldn't really retrofit many of the old arenas to have them.

There are currently zero new structural advances like that in NBA arenas. Maybe something happens in the future, but right now the clock hasn't even started ticking yet.

^

All true.

And I wonder how much extra demand there is for suites in OKC anyway.

I know Staples in L.A. has tons and tons of suites and it really sucks the life out of that place. But of course, it's a massive city with tons of big businesses there.

I'm not sure that OKC needs or wants more suites and I bet they could add more club-style seating if they so desired.

From the Oklahoman's William Crum.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5539854


Discussed the feasibility of installing a rooftop solar array above the exhibit hall at the*MAPS 3 convention center, and Mayor Mick Cornett asked the architect to put together*a cost estimate*for a study of the idea. Convention centers in cities including*Anaheim, Portland, Las Vegas and Houston are generating solar energy.*"Clearly this is the trend,"*said Ward 2 Councilman Ed Shadid.

From the Oklahoman's William Crum.

http://m.newsok.com/article/5539854

I think that's a good idea. That is a *lot* of space to light and more importantly keep cool in the summer, when it is the sunniest. Any efficiency gains would be good. Solar is becoming very, very efficient in the ratio of sq. ft. of solar receptors to energy output. A friend of mine here in Denver just installed solar last year on his house, and he has been getting $15-30 back every month from the electric company for the past year or so, minus December and January where he only owed $5-10.

I think it is definitely something the city should look into to reduce the long term operating costs of the facility; lower costs can make event booking cheaper which will only enhance the city's ability to book conventions that are shopping around for value. The initial expense would be worth it in the long run.

Update on the new substation: they're working rapidly on it. It was dark when I went by, so no photos. In Pete's last update all you see is the cleared dirt, but now there's quite a bit of concrete poured and a lot of the metal superstructure is up. Despite the dark there were at least 4 or 5 crews working on the substation and tons of lighting, trucks, and other equipment at the site.

I can't help but feel putting the new substation right next to the river is a huge mistake, as that land could be quite desirable some day if Pull-A-Part can ever be convinced to leave.

^

The city could easily take the Pull-a-Part property through eminent domain, as they have countless times through OCURA. Then, that would be a quite valuable slice of property, especially as the surrounding area is set to be developed.

The reason this happened is because the city already owned that land and it's an intentional strategy to give property to another owner (in this case OG&E) and then not have it count against the convention center budget.

I've argued several times that not only is this a disingenuous practice (the property has value and that should be counted just as if the city spent cash for something) but it results in these types of situations where they use city owned land as bargaining chips which can lead to something other than the highest and best use of property, and that is clearly happening here.

IMO, the whole thing basically creates two wrongs yet they continue to do it without much question and certainly no thought of handling things a different way.

Maybe they could find a parcel of land out on 1-40 and Peebly rd or somewhere like that for Pull-A-Part and do a swap. That has always seemed like an odd site for a salvage yard.

Maybe they could find a parcel of land out on 1-40 and Peebly rd or somewhere like that for Pull-A-Part and do a swap. That has always seemed like an odd site for a salvage yard.

There was a time when that property was inexpensive and nobody cared about the river.