View Full Version : Convention Center




shawnw
03-25-2015, 12:09 PM
I don't think less than half. 4-lanes total and curb parking on both sides plus median I think?

jn1780
03-25-2015, 12:14 PM
Why?

I guess I didn't know what you meant by a convention center / public school hybrid.

Teo9969
03-25-2015, 12:21 PM
I guess I didn't know what you meant by a convention center / public school hybrid.

Just that: A facility that houses both the convention center and a public school. I don't understand why that means Rex has to come down? Obviously this would be for 7-12.

Motley
03-25-2015, 12:26 PM
The city of San Diego recently built a combination library and charter school downtown in an attempt to leverage costs for the facility. If you did a charter school that centered on the hospitality trade/culinary training with the convention center/hotel, it might be a workable idea.

jdross1982
03-25-2015, 12:28 PM
The school would not be demo if the CC was on that site. The School is on another site.

Teo9969
03-25-2015, 12:52 PM
The San Antonio CC has a beautiful concert hall that they use to host their 20,000+ music convention (TMEA) every year, one could be incorporated for the school and the convention facility.

Just the facts
03-25-2015, 01:39 PM
I am sure elementary school parents don't want convention goers mingling with their children.

shawnw
03-25-2015, 02:06 PM
If this were done, not that I'm sold on the idea just yet, I presume it would be a middle school or mid-high to fill the coming missing niche downtown.

John
03-25-2015, 02:54 PM
As for bridging the gap between the city & REHCO; I wonder if any fractional ownership in the convention hotel could be offered (if a city owned option is chosen).

Spartan
03-25-2015, 03:05 PM
I support Mike Adams & the North Maps park site! A better convention center, a better (but smaller) maps park & better areas left for private development. Count me in!

We have a plan for a park. It could be better, but at least it is hardly lacking in elements and opportunities. To grow the CC project even more at the direct expense of the park is insane.

I do NOT like the Blumenthal's site. With that idea, now the CC project is taking a swing at leveling another neighborhood of downtown. Nowhere is safe from the convention center committee's wreckage path. The only thing that we do know is that if it's an underutilized site with no infill potential, the CC doesn't want it; If it's a great site with exciting redevelopment/preservation potential, the CC is headed there next!

David
03-25-2015, 03:05 PM
If we were to go with the Reno&Dewey site, would it be worth considering a Convention Center/Public School hybrid? It would be a scheduling nightmare, and maybe so much so that it's totally impractical, but an interesting thought none the less.

Let's cut this idea off at the pass. Thousands of strangers mingling with hundreds of children or teenagers is a non-starter, and that's before you even get to the issue that conventions frequently run during the week, in the exact same timeframes that schools have classes. I don't think I've ever been to a convention that wasn't Fri-Sun, Sun-Wed, etc. with sessions from 9-5-ish. Nice out of the box thinking, sure, but no.

Spartan
03-25-2015, 03:07 PM
I've thought all along this is just political theater.

To get more funding.

Spartan
03-25-2015, 03:12 PM
Let's cut this idea off at the pass. Thousands of strangers mingling with hundreds of children or teenagers is a non-starter, and that's before you even get to the issue that conventions frequently run during the week, in the exact same timeframes that schools have classes. I don't think I've ever been to a convention that wasn't Fri-Sun, Sun-Wed, etc. Nice out of the box thinking, sure, but no.

Actually, you stand corrected because the CC committee deems the CC to be the crown jewel of not only MAPS 3, let alone the MAPS program, but in fact it is the crown jewel of OKC. This city has never built anything as remarkable and amazing as a convention facility. Those kids in the Rex Downtown Elementary should be so lucky as to be surrounded by large conventions. They will surely see testing scores and success outcomes go through the roof by having a massive CC vomit all over the small, mere $12 million building.

The only negative impact is the existence of other uses, possibly even -gasp- non-office uses, that may briefly surround the convention center in the beginning. The CC is the highest and best use that anyone could imagine for a site in downtown OKC. With the skyrocketing values (proof of success) of vacant lots, it makes sense that the CC may want to go after real estate closer into the downtown core, where things may actually be a lot cheaper. First National can be acquired in a Sheriff's Sale. Other towers can be acquired for $2-5 million. We could kill two birds with one stone and use the CC project to clear out some even worse old junky buildings.

Whether it takes any of the mentioned sites OR perhaps even all of them (dream BIG!), we need to embrace this CC's real goal of "Growing with pride!"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhXaPSz8Sto

jn1780
03-25-2015, 03:16 PM
Let's cut this idea off at the pass. Thousands of strangers mingling with hundreds of children or teenagers is a non-starter, and that's before you even get to the issue that conventions frequently run during the week, in the exact same timeframes that schools have classes. I don't think I've ever been to a convention that wasn't Fri-Sun, Sun-Wed, etc. with sessions from 9-5-ish. Nice out of the box thinking, sure, but no.

Convention goers hate walking, but they LOVE rowdy teenagers. ;)

Motley
03-25-2015, 03:41 PM
San Diego has two downtown charter schools. One is in Horton Plaza, a large open air mall for tourists and in the heart of the downtown business towers, and located at one end of the Gaslamp, the cities main bar and restaurant row for tourists and conventioneers. The second is in the new library and learning center, a mecca for homeless, located across the street from Petco Park and, gasp, two blocks from the convention center. Doesn't get more diverse and crowded than those areas.

David
03-25-2015, 03:54 PM
Being in the immediate area is not really the same thing as a "facility that houses both the convention center and a public school". I assume that means the same building with interior spaces reusable for both, otherwise what would be the point?

BDP
03-25-2015, 04:07 PM
NM. got lost.

soonerguru
03-25-2015, 11:25 PM
Keep it up Spartan. You're on a roll today. Good stuff.

hfry
03-25-2015, 11:39 PM
Kerry, Where did you see the 200 million development mentioned by Steve? I must have missed it so I was hoping you had a link or remembered what article(or twitter) it was in?

Teo9969
03-26-2015, 12:37 PM
It was in a tweet by Steve.

Teo9969
03-26-2015, 12:43 PM
Being in the immediate area is not really the same thing as a "facility that houses both the convention center and a public school". I assume that means the same building with interior spaces reusable for both, otherwise what would be the point?

Obviously there would be certain things that would be unequivocally separated: Run of the mill classrooms, offices, etc. are not going to be used by convention goers.

But larger type facilities, there may be opportunities for access from both convention/school: gymnasiums, theaters/performing arts centers, dining halls, kitchens, certain laboratories.

Again, I'm not saying it's a slam dunk, but I figured I'd float the idea out there in case people who are very knowledgeable about either conventions or school logistics (and not "I have a kid in school" or "I go to a couple conventions a year" type people) can think of some synergies created by the idea.

David
03-26-2015, 02:29 PM
What, so the experiences of having gone to lots of conventions and being familiar with the room use requirements is useless? Nothing about a middle school or even high school facility is going to combine well with a convention center, the necessary space requirements are just too different. All you'd end up with is a facility that works poorly for one or both of its intended uses.

jn1780
03-26-2015, 03:27 PM
What, so the experiences of having gone to lots of conventions and being familiar with the room use requirements is useless? Nothing about a middle school or even high school facility is going to combine well with a convention center, the necessary space requirements are just too different. All you'd end up with is a facility that works poorly for one or both of its intended uses.

Another issue, is that middle and high schools are built to keep people out. Which is the complete opposite of what a convention center is trying to accomplish.

soonergooner
04-15-2015, 07:17 AM
At this late date, I wonder if the area just east of the highway has been fairly considered. It seems that ground would be much more affordable, close enough to brick town to support lunch/dinner trade, (especially if trolley could be extended nearby), close enough for other games concerts, and also provide easy auto access.

There are surely enviro remediation issues, might not be cheap to extend trolley, not at ground zero downtown etc.

Still, seems we might get good bang for the buck going east just a bit.

Stickman
04-15-2015, 08:33 AM
My guess is the ORIGINAL site picked; although they may be considering S. of the PEAK.

:whisper:

kevinpate
04-15-2015, 12:23 PM
My guess is the ORIGINAL site picked; although they may be considering S. of the PEAK.

:whisper:

I wouldn't bet against you.

Urban Pioneer
04-17-2015, 09:44 AM
So I guess the next "big" meeting is Tuesday. I expect them to eliminate at least half of the sites and follow a similar process as the first one. This one just happens to be "accelerated".

Real question, how much influence does the subcommittee now have and how much of this is going to be staff orienting this project towards the site that stays within budget and is acceptable to the city council. You can bet that they are sending trial balloons up the ladder before coming out with any real recommendations. And that's ok. Just going to be interesting if this moves forward as one "block" or if there will be significant differences of opinion.

Just the facts
04-17-2015, 01:14 PM
What good does picking the same site do?

kevinpate
04-17-2015, 04:00 PM
If it pleases TPTB, that is all the good some might feel is necessary.

Just the facts
04-17-2015, 04:21 PM
Even if it is picked, they still can't afford it. To re-enter negotiations didn't require a re-evaluation because none of the facts will have changed. In fact, a reselection of the same site will just reinforce the value of the land.

kevinpate
04-17-2015, 05:00 PM
Unless they found something else that works. Perhaps a land trade not on the table before. Perhaps a OKC pays more than they want but the landowners agree to go down certain roads that involve depositions, etc.

This is the pet project for some. It has already been treated somewhat differently. That is likely to continue.

Spartan
04-17-2015, 10:44 PM
So I guess the next "big" meeting is Tuesday. I expect them to eliminate at least half of the sites and follow a similar process as the first one. This one just happens to be "accelerated".

Real question, how much influence does the subcommittee now have and how much of this is going to be staff orienting this project towards the site that stays within budget and is acceptable to the city council. You can bet that they are sending trial balloons up the ladder before coming out with any real recommendations. And that's ok. Just going to be interesting if this moves forward as one "block" or if there will be significant differences of opinion.

If you have a rogue subcommittee that is not acting in the favor of the overall MAPS 3 program, then Mayor Mick needs to be a leader and take action. They serve at his pleasure. That goes for any subcommittee, and I'm not saying that I know that to be the case here because I hope it's not.

We will see what site is picked...it's truly anyone's guess.

David
04-21-2015, 03:16 PM
If you can get this to work Bill Crum is streaming from the convention center committee meeting that starts at 3:30.

http://mrk.tv/1HgAr5e

jccouger
04-21-2015, 03:25 PM
Is it only available with mobile? I guess I will find out at 3:30

David
04-21-2015, 03:27 PM
Yeah, I don't know if it's working or not. I've been seeing the same still image of the floor, the bottom of a chair, and someone's foot for ~15 minutes now.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:36 PM
I am sitting in the meeting.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:41 PM
panorama http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=10672&stc=1

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:43 PM
Presentation from Robbie Kienzel (Planning Department) on the eligibility for 1% of the project being used for art.

BDP
04-21-2015, 03:44 PM
There's a lot I find amusing about that picture, not the least of which is Urban Pioneer scanning the room with his phone to take a panorama.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:46 PM
lol

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:50 PM
As much as I think people love art and appreciate Robbie, I think there is a sense in the room with some folks that this possibly the least important issue of the moment.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:58 PM
Populous coming in next week to work with staff. Mike Carrier not happy with the followup meeting date. Sounds like this is going to be a discussion oriented meeting...

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 03:59 PM
The 30th meeting being more discussion and feedback.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:01 PM
McDaniel- finds it motivating to move forward and accommodating the fastest schedule possible. McDaniel- not going to postpone meeting so that Carrier can be there.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:02 PM
The meeting on the 30th is to go through the results of analysis and obtain feedback from the Subcommittee before there is an actual vote... trying to make the July 7th deadline.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:03 PM
Todd- going to pare it down to 3 to 4 sites and make suggestions at the next meeting. All the Planning Department is gone today to Seattle.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:04 PM
1. streetcar route location
2. overall site strengths
3. eligibility for TIF

New ranking criteria added

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:08 PM
Guy is making a pitch to expand the Skirvin, build an adjacent tower, readapt use of existing Cox.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:10 PM
I should say guy from the Skirvin, I think Marcus, and Don Karchmer. Adding 375 rooms to the Skirvin and turning the Skirvin itself into the Convention Hotel. Committee seems skeptical.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:14 PM
Roy Williams and Mike Carrier asking how they could possibly be a dedicated hotel. Guys is making a pitch. Carrier says that some conventions require more than 600 rooms under one roof. A consortium of multiple properties probably doesn't easily answer these concerns. Carrier emphasizing that the ability to room-block-book several years in advance is required to be able to gain larger conventions.

Pete
04-21-2015, 04:15 PM
I should say guy from the Skirvin, I think Marcus, and Don Karchmer. Adding 375 rooms to the Skirvin and turning the Skirvin itself into the Convention Hotel. Committee seems skeptical.

They pitched something similar a couple of years ago. It was an interesting idea.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:16 PM
500 - 600 room-block-booking is a fairly common requirement for the the conventions Carrier is going after.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:19 PM
The proposer wants Populous to weigh their proposal. They are not giving a specific plan. They want the existing Cox CC evaluated further from an architectural perspective. Pointing out that Renassiance contract with the City to service the Cox is up or coming up.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:22 PM
Carrier says these ideas might "be more than challenging." Throwing serious doubt on these ideas. He is asking for Populous to consider it. McDaniel pointing out that the city already owns the property. Potentially "saving" $13 million. Scarramucci seconds sentiments by both Carrier and McDaniel. Committee says to have Populous look at it.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:23 PM
Nothing to report on budget as nothing is being built yet. lol

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:26 PM
Gary Marrs- accelerated schedule regarding Cox reuse site also beeds to consider bookings that might have already be made that would be lost. And lost overall revenue. $13 million for the land might not compensate for the liabilities. It was such a concern in the original scoring that the idea was simply eliminated. Susan Hooper floating the new Expo building at the fair as a potential solution. Carrier says that it is not ideal as there is no separation. It is just one big room.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:29 PM
Gary Gregory getting up asking question about the process.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:30 PM
Todd says he is willing to meet with Gregory and the Planning Department next week to evaluate Blumenthal and area development concept.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:31 PM
Avis Scarrammucci asking about OKC Boulevard potentially being a barrier between sites.

Urban Pioneer
04-21-2015, 04:32 PM
Meeting over.