Exactly. I'd prefer a Hyatt or Westin, but Omni is a solid brand as well. I doubt Marriott would put yet another hotel downtown.

So if this hotel was to be a highrise with 600 rooms how tall are we talking about?

So if this hotel was to be a highrise with 600 rooms how tall are we talking about?

depends on the footprint. 40 rooms a floor would be a 15 story structure plus any amenity floors. If the footprint only permits 30 a floor, it'll be taller.

depends on the footprint. 40 rooms a floor would be a 15 story structure plus any amenity floors. If the footprint only permits 30 a floor, it'll be taller.

With a price tag of $150 million mentioned in the Journal Record article above, we are looking at 25+ floors easy, especially with such a small area to build on.

Good Comparison:

Omni Ft. Worth Convention Hotel $165M
614 Rooms
33 Floors (447ft)
Built 2009

With a price tag of $150 million mentioned in the Journal Record article above, we are looking at 25+ floors easy, especially with such a small area to build on.

Good Comparison:

Omni Ft. Worth Convention Hotel $165M
614 Rooms
33 Floors (447ft)
Built 2009

I believe that the Fort Worth hotel has several floors of condos.

I believe that the Fort Worth hotel has several floors of condos.

That is true.

I say go mixed uses with a 2 story retail arcade, convention space on the third floor connected by skywalk to the main convention center, then 10 floors of office space, 20 floors of hotel, topped by 5 floors of residential, and capped with an upscale bar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Place

I say go mixed uses with a 2 story retail arcade, convention space on the third floor connected by skywalk to the main convention center, then 10 floors of office space, 20 floors of hotel, topped by 5 floors of residential, and capped with an upscale bar.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Place

So basically the Sheraton/Century Center complex? Please, no more "retail arcades."

So basically the Sheraton/Century Center complex? Please, no more "retail arcades."

Hardly - that is why I provided a link to an example. A windowless concrete box is not what I had in mind. Besides, I thought you wanted to save its cousin down the street (aka Stage center).

In case some people are 'link clicking' challenged here are some pictures.

http://www.avalonlimo.net/image/40078526.jpg

http://www.hotelsbycity.net/blog/usa_pennsylvania_philadelphia/files/2007/05/56.jpg

In Spartan's defense, as ugly as Century Center is, the REAL problem is that it's a completely abandoned mall that never worked. An indoor mall like that is not right for downtown. But hopefully a retail element will be included, just not a mall.

In Spartan's defense, as ugly as Century Center is, the REAL problem is that it's a completely abandoned mall that never worked. An indoor mall like that is not right for downtown. But hopefully a retail element will be included, just not a mall.

In the early days it did work - then we had an oil bust. But with few exceptions it never included any destination retail that would attract locals. For most of the life of Century Center downtown OKC didn't have any people living in it either. That is changing.

In the early days it did work - then we had an oil bust. But with few exceptions it never included any destination retail that would attract locals. For most of the life of Century Center downtown OKC didn't have any people living in it either. That is changing.

It was never successful. Always had a high turn over of businesses.

Downtown malls have not been successful. It was a 1970s concept that many cities tried and failed at. Just ask Tulsa how popular their downtown mall was.

For the record, I am not proposing a mall. I am proposing retail as part of a mixed use building that includes hotel, residential, and office space. You can't tell me it doesn't work because it works in dozens of downtowns every single day.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixed-use_development

The question comes down to this: "Do we want to continue to move forward?" We will need a large hotel if we want to attract the type of conventions which will infuse new money into our community. This is not a high stakes gambling investment; we are centrally located and in a position to beef up the convention industry with what we currently have to offer. A lot of positives are being said about Oklahoma City and we need to stake our claim as a new destination. Time to move forward with progress before other cities in our area like Tulsa, Wichita, Amarillo, Albuquerque and Littlle Rock decide to embark on an ambitious plan to attrack convention dollars which could go to Oklahoma City.

We are a city on the verge and we need to continue to invest in ourselves in an industry which is going to pay big dividends if we get on the right track. We will not only need a new large hotel; but continue on with the retail development that was proposed in the original I.M. Pei plan laid out in the late 60s. We don't necessarily need a mall; however, we do need to start retail development in & around the convention center and those areas which will support and complement making OKC attractive as a whole.

The metro-concourse was a great idea; however, it killed the most important element of our downtown which was the people walking the streets. Look at our I-40 strip outlet mall progress; this is an indication of what Oklahoma City left on the table.

" Just ask Tulsa how popular their downtown mall was."

Sacramento tried and failed with a downtown mall as well. That said, some light (not destination) retail could be successful. But it MUST have street exposure.

" Just ask Tulsa how popular their downtown mall was."

Sacramento tried and failed with a downtown mall as well. That said, some light (not destination) retail could be successful. But it MUST have street exposure.

Keep in mind though that the difference with Tulsa and what was proposed here at one time is that their's was a pedestrian mall instead of a shopping mall. Neither necessarily work particularly well.

Cleveland is constructing a Medical Mart Convention Center, which is basically a convention center geared more toward research and medical symposiums to take advantage of the Cleveland Clinic and area medical schools up there, and the site has striking similarities to our proposed CC. The footprint is actually even smaller as it only takes up a single block, and the exhibition hall is underground beneath several blocks - the total cost was over $465 million. Cleveland's facility has 230,000 sf of exhibition space, 90,000 sf of meeting space, and a 30,000 sf ballroom. That is strikingly similar to what is planned for ours. Bear in mind that the whole reason we are embarking on this project is because we only have 100,000 sf of contiguous exhibition space and want several times that in the end.

I think there are some staggering questions about how our city expects to pull off the concept at $280 million. And do it in a way that is sensitive to the central park that we are breaking up. And to the boulevard that we are literally bending to create more space. And the other disparate parts that make up downtown that we are sacrificing for the holy convention gods.

Keep in mind though that the difference with Tulsa and what was proposed here at one time is that their's was a pedestrian mall instead of a shopping mall. Neither necessarily work particularly well.

Tulsa also had an enclosed shopping mall. It was quite successful, briefly. It is now office space, cafeteria, etc.

Cleveland is constructing a Medical Mart Convention Center, which is basically a convention center geared more toward research and medical symposiums to take advantage of the Cleveland Clinic and area medical schools up there, and the site has striking similarities to our proposed CC. The footprint is actually even smaller as it only takes up a single block, and the exhibition hall is underground beneath several blocks - the total cost was over $465 million. Cleveland's facility has 230,000 sf of exhibition space, 90,000 sf of meeting space, and a 30,000 sf ballroom. That is strikingly similar to what is planned for ours. Bear in mind that the whole reason we are embarking on this project is because we only have 100,000 sf of contiguous exhibition space and want several times that in the end.

I think there are some staggering questions about how our city expects to pull off the concept at $280 million. And do it in a way that is sensitive to the central park that we are breaking up. And to the boulevard that we are literally bending to create more space. And the other disparate parts that make up downtown that we are sacrificing for the holy convention gods.

Cleveland's development is not just a convention center. It is a convention center PLUS a medical mart. The medical mart is included in Spartan's quoted $465 million construction cost. But the Medical Mart is NOT included in the square footage Spartan quoted. The Medical Mart adds an additional 235,000 square feet to the project, and I would speculate that the medical mart will be more expensive per square foot then the convention center space.

Plus, Spartan left out the 11,000 square foot junior ballroom.

So... Total square footage according to Spartan: 350,000
Actual Total square footage: 596,000

If Cleveland's 350,000 square foot convention center is strikingly similar to what is planned for ours, we appear to be right on track. At the dollars/square foot that Cleveland is spending on their convention center and medical mart, a 350,000 square foot convention center should cost us just a bit over $273 million. So much for Spartan's "staggering questions" about OKC's $280 million budget.

Cleveland's development is not just a convention center. It is a convention center PLUS a medical mart. The medical mart is included in Spartan's quoted $465 million construction cost. But the Medical Mart is NOT included in the square footage Spartan quoted. The Medical Mart adds an additional 235,000 square feet to the project, and I would speculate that the medical mart will be more expensive per square foot then the convention center space.

Plus, Spartan left out the 11,000 square foot junior ballroom.

So... Total square footage according to Spartan: 350,000
Actual Total square footage: 596,000

If Cleveland's 350,000 square foot convention center is strikingly similar to what is planned for ours, we appear to be right on track. At the dollars/square foot that Cleveland is spending on their convention center and medical mart, a 350,000 square foot convention center should cost us just a bit over $273 million. So much for Spartan's "staggering questions" about OKC's $280 million budget.


What are you smoking? I never said that the square footages I listed represented the entire Cleveland project, nor was it equivalent to the scope of the entire OKC project which you seem to think. OKC is not building a 350,000 sf convention center. The MAPS3 portion will be 470,000 sf which is a figure that has already been trimmed down from campaign rhetoric of almost 600,000 sf for $280 million. Then there will be the expansion area to the west (the Vitagraph property).

The square footages I listed were picked because they are so similar to the OKC project. 30,000 sf ballroom - OKC will have a 35,000 sf one. 230,000 sf contiguous exhibition floor underground - OKC will have a 200,000 sf one underground. It wasn't any attempt to be sneaky, nor was it out of ignorance, I am aware that I left out the square footage for the medical mart but also keep in mind that Cleveland isn't the only new medical mart, as this is an emerging trend I believe in post-2008 convention centers (Nashville is planning to build one). Perhaps these will be the ones that remain competitive unlike traditional convention centers that put all their eggs on the contiguous exhibition floor which have been faltering across the country.

My facts are from OKC.gov (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/projects/conventioncenter.html). Oil Capitol's facts are from... beats me. But he lives in Tulsa.

I heard a rumor yesterday that the W in Dallas is now looking at building something similar in OKC. They are owned by starwood which also has several other high end brands. Could be a good fit if it is in fact true.

I heard a rumor yesterday that the W in Dallas is now looking at building something similar in OKC. They are owned by starwood which also has several other high end brands. Could be a good fit if it is in fact true.

Would they build something similar to the W in Dallas with Aloft so close? Aloft is owned by Starwood Brands as is Sheraton.

Would they build something similar to the W in Dallas with Aloft so close? Aloft is owned by Starwood Brands as is Sheraton.

I guess the better question would be to ask Why Wouldn't They? There are no W's in Oklahoma/Kansas/Arkansas/Missouri, they may be trying to establish a footprint in this region, makes sense.

What are you smoking? I never said that the square footages I listed represented the entire Cleveland project, nor was it equivalent to the scope of the entire OKC project which you seem to think. OKC is not building a 350,000 sf convention center. The MAPS3 portion will be 470,000 sf which is a figure that has already been trimmed down from campaign rhetoric of almost 600,000 sf for $280 million. Then there will be the expansion area to the west (the Vitagraph property).

The square footages I listed were picked because they are so similar to the OKC project. 30,000 sf ballroom - OKC will have a 35,000 sf one. 230,000 sf contiguous exhibition floor underground - OKC will have a 200,000 sf one underground. It wasn't any attempt to be sneaky, nor was it out of ignorance, I am aware that I left out the square footage for the medical mart but also keep in mind that Cleveland isn't the only new medical mart, as this is an emerging trend I believe in post-2008 convention centers (Nashville is planning to build one). Perhaps these will be the ones that remain competitive unlike traditional convention centers that put all their eggs on the contiguous exhibition floor which have been faltering across the country.

My facts are from OKC.gov (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/projects/conventioncenter.html). Oil Capitol's facts are from... beats me. But he lives in Tulsa.

the Vitagraph property is not to the west of the new CC it is to the west of the MBG and is not part of CC future expansion

Not even for the potential CC hotel?

edit: I was going to link to Ed Shadid's blog where he raises a "myriad of questions" about the Vitagraph sale, but his site is down? :(

Not even for the potential CC hotel?

edit: I was going to link to Ed Shadid's blog where he raises a "myriad of questions" about the Vitagraph sale, but his site is down? :(

the hotel will very likely be on the east end of the CC site .. across from the chesapeake arena .....

vitagraph site is north of the expansion end and west of the MBG http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-12010-myriad-questions.html

Even if the Vitagraph site isn't part of the C.C. site per se, it's comp could factor in to how much the C.C. site land is appraised at, right?

Even if the Vitagraph site isn't part of the C.C. site per se, it's comp could factor in to how much the C.C. site land is appraised at, right?

i would think so .. i that is a point that council men shadid has brought up more than once ....


if the 4.2-6.9 comp is used ... the CC site is 55-85 mil

the budget for CC land is somewhere close to 16 mil

Even if the Vitagraph site isn't part of the C.C. site per se, it's comp could factor in to how much the C.C. site land is appraised at, right?

That's what I was recalling. Sorry for the confusion bouldersooner..

My recollection is sometimes a jarbled mess of all these news headlines that I watch that get compacted into my OKC subconscious after new concerns and projects rise to the forefront.

I saw the site configuration option that put the CC hotel next to the Ford Center, but then that officially throws the "Harvey Spine" off a lot more than the adjustment for the SkyDance Bridge. The spine isn't even preserved at least on paper. I guess I thought the Vitagraph property was one of the other options.

That's what I was recalling. Sorry for the confusion bouldersooner..

My recollection is sometimes a jarbled mess of all these news headlines that I watch that get compacted into my OKC subconscious after new concerns and projects rise to the forefront.

I saw the site configuration option that put the CC hotel next to the Ford Center, but then that officially throws the "Harvey Spine" off a lot more than the adjustment for the SkyDance Bridge. The spine isn't even preserved at least on paper. I guess I thought the Vitagraph property was one of the other options.

no problem .... i will say that the possibility of the hotel across from the Chesapeake arena and south of the MBG is one of the only "good" things about the site they picked

I heard a rumor yesterday that the W in Dallas is now looking at building something similar in OKC. They are owned by starwood which also has several other high end brands. Could be a good fit if it is in fact true.

Starwood includes Sheraton, Westin, W, St. Regis, Luxury Collection, Le Meridien, Aloft, Element, and Four Points.

Starwood includes Sheraton, Westin, W, St. Regis, Luxury Collection, Le Meridien, Aloft, Element, and Four Points.

According to a source I have from Starwood, there are no W's planned for Oklahoma City.

I hear there might be an Aloft, though.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=30513&page=6&p=557742#post557742

Just thought I'd through this out there and don't know if its solid, but saw construction bid issued on 06/13/12 for this project: $250 Million, said franchise is Hilton Hotels Corporation, One Million Square Feet and designated as Upscale, also stated it was in the Early Planning Stages...that's all the info I was able to obtain...

Just thought I'd through this out there and don't know if its solid, but saw construction bid issued on 06/13/12 for this project: $250 Million, said franchise is Hilton Hotels Corporation, One Million Square Feet and designated as Upscale, also stated it was in the Early Planning Stages...that's all the info I was able to obtain...

Wouldn't mind a DoubleTree.

In reference to G.Walker's post:

I did find a bid for a hotel costing in the range of $250 - $300 million in the early planning stages by Hilton Hotels:

Project Type:
Conventions/Arenas, Green Buildings, Hotels/Motels/Resorts

Estimated Value:
$250 million
$200 million to $300 million.

Sector:
Private, Public

Location:
Oklahoma City, OK. ...
Register For Free Access

Construction Schedule:
Early planning stage

Details:

Plans call for a one million-square-foot...
Register For Free Access

Chain:
Register For Free Access

Franchise:
Hilton Hotels Corporation

Scale:
Upscale

Rooms:
Register For Free Access

Construction Type:
New

Project Information

Project Type: Conventions/Arenas, Green Buildings, Hotels/Motels/Resorts

Estimated Value: $250 million
$200 million to $300 million.

Sector: Private, Public

Location: Oklahoma City, OK. ...
Register For Free Access (http://www.okctalk.com/free/default.asp?provider_id=1000&category_id=1000&product_id=1093&subscriptiontype=0&UID={BB8 A8719-5C6A-4EA9-8A52-EEA690DAE4A5})

Construction Schedule: Early planning stage

Details: Plans call for a one million-square-foot...
Register For Free Access (http://www.okctalk.com/free/default.asp?provider_id=1000&category_id=1000&product_id=1093&subscriptiontype=0&UID={BB8 A8719-5C6A-4EA9-8A52-EEA690DAE4A5})


Chain: Register For Free Access (http://www.okctalk.com/free/default.asp?provider_id=1000&category_id=1000&product_id=1093&subscriptiontype=0&UID={BB8 A8719-5C6A-4EA9-8A52-EEA690DAE4A5})

Franchise: Hilton Hotels (http://www.okctalk.com/#) Corporation

Scale: Upscale

Rooms: Register For Free Access (http://www.okctalk.com/free/default.asp?provider_id=1000&category_id=1000&product_id=1093&subscriptiontype=0&UID={BB8 A8719-5C6A-4EA9-8A52-EEA690DAE4A5})

Construction Type: New

In reference to G.Walker's post:

I did find a bid for a hotel costing in the range of $250 - $300 million in the early planning stages by Hilton Hotels:...
Where did you find this?

just for comparison,how do other dt hotels stack up square footage wise?

http://hotels.buildcentral.com/projects/project_detail.asp?project_id=1473625&searchandor=

just for comparison,how do other dt hotels stack up square footage wise?

To put in perspective, the Dallas Convention Center Hotel is 1.2 million square feet, it's 23 floors, but has a larger weird L shaped foot print:

http://dfwhappenings.files.wordpress.com/2011/12/omnilights.jpg

just for comparison,how do other dt hotels stack up square footage wise?

Devon Tower is 1,800,000 square feet, including the podium and rotunda. So...

Assuming a similarly sized podium/rotunda-street....AND
Assuming the same sized floor plates....

We would have a 27-28 story tower based on square feet alone....

Very poor assessment as there are a lot of assumptions about this inside the math. Basically a 1,000,000 square foot Devon Energy Center would be 27-28 stories.

Every soft comment I heard is that it will be around 30 stories, so that about right...

Every soft announcement I heard is that it will be around 30 stories, so that about right...

So with a limited area to build on and with modern floor to ceiling heights,is it logical to assume this tower could reach 400-500ft'?

The Sandridge tower is 393ft' tall and 30 floors,but was built in the 70's,a newer 30 story building would be even taller I'm assuming!

^Yep

Where did you find this?

Hotels Online in partnership with Build Central - check out the Oklahoma link.

http://hotels.buildcentral.com/projects
Look at the link posting below my previous post.

After thinking about this for a second....


Isn't the convention center supposed to be 1MM square feet, roughly. And isn't the budget around $250MM? The page was created on 5/14/2009 and updated on 6/13/2012. Is it possible this page was about the convention center and the hotel is just a separate aspect of this bid? I.E. the bid is actually for the convention center with a request for proposals for a convention hotel? So the full budget and sq. footage in this bid is for the convention center and the hotel would be a 100% separate aspect of this?

I do not see any way in Hades we get 1 million square feet for $250 million. The Dallas CC is around 1.25 million and has 6 halls, a small arena, and several small meeting rooms. Hall E (F) has the largest unobstructed floor space of any CC in the US - approx 250000 ft2. I think the new OKC CC will have a bit over 250000ft2 total.

Guys, they're referring to the new convention center. Look at the category heading: Conventions/Arenas, Green Buildings, Hotels/Motels/Resorts

I believe the hotel portion was added to the original CC bid because why would it say the operator is Hilton Hotels Corporation, and upscale? It was also noted that the new CC hotel will be around $250M. This bid was specifically in the hotel construction bid of build central. At least we know we Hilton might be the brand, which is good.

Also to note the new CC is slated to only be 470,000 square feet, per the MAPS3 implementation plan.

Also to note the new CC is slated to only be 470,000 square feet, per the MAPS3 implementation plan.

You are correct the new cc is 470000sf. Could they possibly be constructing the two at the same time for a total of 1 million sf?

Also to note the new CC is slated to only be 470,000 square feet, per the MAPS3 implementation plan.

Isn't that total spread across two phases though, only one of which is funded by MAPS 3?

Isn't that total spread across two phases though, only one of which is funded by MAPS 3?

When the original CC bid was posted on 05/14/09, it stated one million square feet, and that it was between $200-$300 million as cost, and it was in the early planning stages, with no hotel operator listed. Then, just recently it was updated on 06/13/12, but on the hotel page of Build Central, and state that Hilton Hotel, Inc would be the operator, and it would be upscale, but the square footage stayed the same.

I think the original bid posted was for the CC and CC hotel which resulted in the one million square feet, and now I think they found an operator which was just updated on the bid.

Can you see who is advertising the bid and who updated it?

Guys, they're referring to the new convention center. Look at the category heading: Conventions/Arenas, Green Buildings, Hotels/Motels/Resorts

i don't think so

Here's the info.

Most interesting is listing Marcus as the hotel developer:


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cchotel1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cchotel2.jpg

Ok, I am like totally confused now...so is Otto and Weeman still going to build hotel, even through the CC is not going to be over there? Or is it that whoever is updating this bid page did not know what they are doing. Because you and I both know that the new CC hotel will not be next to the Skirvin...I think this was just the Skirvin Partners CC Hotel addition that never came to fruition, and someone just updated a new blurb...