...are you just looking at a number and making an assumption? ...San Antonio is the model & inspiration (OKC) used for the revitalization of Bricktown & MAPS.

Huh? That's great, but what exactly did I say that wasn't true?

If you don't have other industries to rely on or to build up your city and just depend on tourism and hospitality, then you become Reno, Nevada. Las Vegas can somewhat et away with it because it's the exception to the rule. However, outside of the strip and outside the gated communities, Las Vegas is a pretty depressed place.

Hospitality provides jobs, but low paying jobs. It doesn't build a middle class.

Miami? Wut?

Did you mean Las Vegas?

Josh, I will let you in on a little secret, if I typed Las Vegas, I would have meant Vegas. I chose (2) NON-Gaming destination cities.... Orlando / Miami that have thriving conventin attendance.

Have you ever been to these locations? (for a convention, not to ride the "It's A Small World After All" attraction at WD Orlando).

Josh, I will let you in on a little secret, if I typed Las Vegas, I would have meant Vegas. I chose (2) NON-Gaming destination cities.... Orlando / Miami that have thriving conventin attendance.

Have you ever been to these locations? (for a convention, not to ride the "It's A Small World After All" attraction at WD Orlando).

I've never been Orlando or Miami for a convention, but I doubt you have either. However, I have been to Miami.

But why are you using Miami and Orlando? They have major draws that bring people to their cities irregardless of a convention center. Orlando with the theme parks (Disney, Universal, Nickelodeon, Sea World, etc). Miami with the beach, cruise ships, south beach, night life, etc. Those things, aside from being national draws, are also draws for convention goers.

What exactly would bring in people to Oklahoma
city on a national level?

I've never been Orlando or Miami for a convention, but I doubt you have either. However, I have been to Miami.

But why are you using Miami and Orlando? They have major draws that bring people to their cities irregardless of a convention center. Orlando with the theme parks (Disney, Universal, Nickelodeon, Sea World, etc). Miami with the beach, cruise ships, south beach, night life, etc. Those things, aside from being national draws, are also draws for convention goers.

What exactly would bring in people to Oklahoma
city on a national level?

Josh, I'm glad you asked.... For Oklahoma City to be a "destination" point, we must have something that is (Unique to us and Marketable) to others.

Yes, again, you would be wrong.... I have been to the Miami South Beach Convention (2) times and Orlando (+6) and many other Chi / LV / LA / SF / SD/ ATL / San Antonio ( many times ) / Houston / Dallas / NYC .... and a few others in between. In so many ways, this may be how a Corporation visits a city, endulges in the culture and may even decide to expand an office / operations there. That is a by-product of Tourism, this is how San Antonio built their economy.

Josh, I'm glad you asked.... For Oklahoma City to be a "destination" point, we must have something that is (Unique to us and Marketable) to others.

Yes, again, you would be wrong.... I have been to the Miami South Beach Convention (2) times and Orlando (+6) and many other Chi / LV / LA / SF / SD/ ATL / San Antonio ( many times ) / Houston / Dallas / NYC .... and a few others in between. In so many ways, this may be how a Corporation visits a city, endulges in the culture and may even decide to expand an office / operations there. That is a by-product of Tourism, this is how San Antonio built their economy.

It's not how San Antonio built it's economy. Please stop saying that. You're really putting way too much stock into conventions centers. You're putting them on some
pedestal. Orlando should be the home to 100 different fortune 50O companies if conventions performed the magic you believe they do.

Would you like to know what attacks companies to cities? What companies look for when scouting a regional office or want to plant a flag? There's the quality of life, obviously. Conventions have nothing to do with that. The other big factor. A capable workforce. Conventions have nothing to do with that. Lastly, this isn't also a must but some times is. Incentives from the city and county. That also has nothing to do with conventions.

It's not how San Antonio built it's economy. Please stop saying that. You're really putting way too much stock into conventions centers. You're putting them on some
pedestal. Orlando should be the home to 100 different fortune 50O companies if conventions performed the magic you believe they do.

Would you like to know what attacks companies to cities? What companies look for when scouting a regional office or want to plant a flag? There's the quality of life, obviously. Conventions have nothing to do with that. The other big factor. A capable workforce. Conventions have nothing to do with that. Lastly, this isn't also a must but some times is. Incentives from the city and county. That also has nothing to do with conventions.

I stated the how.... THey are "Introduced" to a city, their culture by visiting during a convention.

It's not how San Antonio built it's economy. Please stop saying that. You're really putting way too much stock into conventions centers. You're putting them on some
pedestal. Orlando should be the home to 100 different fortune 50O companies if conventions performed the magic you believe they do.

Would you like to know what attacks companies to cities? What companies look for when scouting a regional office or want to plant a flag? There's the quality of life, obviously. Conventions have nothing to do with that. The other big factor. A capable workforce. Conventions have nothing to do with that. Lastly, this isn't also a must but some times is. Incentives from the city and county. That also has nothing to do with conventions.

You are not going to win this argument. OKVision is never wrong and will never admit that he is wrong. It is just easier to put him on ignore.

I stated the how.... THey are "Introduced" to a city, their culture by visiting during a convention.

That doesn't mean anything. No ceo or board is going to expand into a city because they liked the city while on a convention. What delusional world do you occupy space in?

I apologize to the rest of the board for being baited into this ridiculous argument. I'm obviously dealing with a "charcter" reminesent to a troll.

That doesn't mean anything. No ceo or board is going to expand into a city because they liked the city while on a convention. What delusional world do you occupy space in?

I apologize to the rest of the board for being baited into this ridiculous argument. I'm obviously dealing with a "charcter" reminesent to a troll.

Your right, large corporate is foreign to me. ....clueless on that one. I can't help those that have their eyes closed. ...or are "anchored into the OKIE small mind" mentality. This is the WHY we are Passed Over and at times I don't blame them.

Until we shake this attitude, our statement to others will be "WE CANT". ( I'm speaking to all the visitors that look at this forum but do not post ). This is our challenge.

I think someone referred to our convention center as "Our LIving Room" to out of town guests. Josh, you may not understand the value of our Image to others, but it is huge. This is the time we build something we will be proud of, ...or not build it at all and save the money.

Your right, large corporate is foreign to me. ....clueless on that one. I can't help those that have their eyes closed. ...or are "anchored into the OKIE small mind" mentality. This is the WHY we are Passed Over and at times I don't blame them.

Until we shake this attitude, our statement to others will be "WE CANT". ( I'm speaking to all the visitors that look at this forum but do not post ). This is our challenge.

I think someone referred to our convention center as "Our LIving Room" to out of town guests. Josh, you may not understand the value of our Image to others, but it is huge. This is the time we build something we will be proud of, ...or not build it at all and save the money.

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

Seriously, put him on ignore. If we all do that, he will eventually go away.

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.

I'm not picking sides in this because, I don't care, but wouldn't your spelling of what as "wut" also make you seem unintelligent and also come off as a bad joke? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, especially when you reveal you're a Texan haha.

Besides that, Thanks for your outside input!

I'm not picking sides in this because, I don't care, but wouldn't your spelling of what as "wut" also make you seem unintelligent and also come off as a bad joke? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, especially when you reveal you're a Texan haha.

Just to clarify why I used "Wut".

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wut

3. A remark most commonly used after a party has told a ridiculous/unbelievable story or comment. after a pause the listener responds "wut" or "lol wut"

It's just the internets way of responding to something dumb with something dumb.

First off, I am a Texan and I live in San Antonio. Hence all my San Antonio-themed posts.

Second, do you realize how unintelligent you come off with your spelling errors and atrocious grammar? No one takes anything you say seriously. You come off as a bad joke.Josh, just remember every time you respond to this guy, you are arguing with someone who thinks the olympics is coming to OKC.

I'm not picking sides in this because, I don't care, but wouldn't your spelling of what as "wut" also make you seem unintelligent and also come off as a bad joke? Don't throw stones if you live in a glass house, especially when you reveal you're a Texan haha.

Besides that, Thanks for your outside input!Dude, literally every single time okvision posts something, it is nearly unbearable to read due to the improper grammar and sentence structuring.

Just to clarify why I used "Wut".

Urban Dictionary: wut (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wut)

3. A remark most commonly used after a party has told a ridiculous/unbelievable story or comment. after a pause the listener responds "wut" or "lol wut"

It's just the internets way of responding to something dumb with something dumb.


Gotcha! Just kind of strange to me, to see someone call someone else out, for something they also did! Sarcasm is hard to judge on here :/

Dude, literally every single time okvision posts something, it is nearly unbearable to read due to the improper grammar and sentence structuring.

I wasn't sticking up for him, the message was, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. Josh's sarcasm was lost in translation. Its all good!

I wasn't sticking up for him, the message was, don't throw stones if you live in a glass house. Josh's sarcasm was lost in translation. Its all good!

Don't throw stones regardless of housing situation. :)

Our image is our future!



https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcREk5c9263XQ2LeDoB4MOAl8sq5c6Z80 22mLtSb55uv0L1K3DVHYQhttp://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQJTL5z29MsKzHT0nDQT2SHLSUpG8jD3 BjrTXaQ5vJM7JOMmeyBFw

“We believe the convention center plays a vital role in the development of the visitor industry and in the development of downtown,” said David Thompson, chamber chairman. “This study tells us clearly that our current center is not large enough, nor does it boast the amenities we need to be competitive. It is time for us to make an investment in this industry or recognize that we are slowly going out of business as far as conventions are concerned.”

“There is an element out there who questions should we really try to do something more?” Williams said. “Part of that is cultural — are we good enough, big enough, savvy enough to step out there on the edge? The best consultants in the U.S. say ‘You sure are. You have the product. When you did MAPS, you built a new city and created a new experience, a unique product.’ But it’s not something you can leave alone, you have to improve it.”

John Kaatz, author of the study released Tuesday, reported the Cox Center’s exhibit space also is the smallest offered among more than a dozen competing cities including Tulsa, Fort Worth, Texas, and Austin. He said planners interviewed who had been to the city gave it a very favorable rating, but 41 percent of them said they will need more space for future meetings.

Flashback: Development of Conference Hotel Needed With New Convention Center | News OK (http://newsok.com/flashback-development-of-conference-hotel-needed-with-new-convention-center/article/3919986)

Dude, literally every single time okvision posts something, it is nearly unbearable to read due to the improper grammar and sentence structuring.

RE: Grammar, well it is not worthy of my time....spell check, not so much either. But those of you that are "still in school / just got out of HS / in college", will know that I have been out for some time and my time is more valuable than that.

Now, back to the topic at hand. The Convention Center. This is a must for OKC. Our city is not identifiable as a convention city and it needs to be. This is why the CC Must Make an impact in Design & Scale and not mediocre in any way.

He thinks the Summer Olympics is going to happen here in OKC. I don't think I need to say much more.

That's right Panda, my Vision for OKC is one of unlimited success and being better than we are today.

What is your vision of OKC? ...more of the same? ...ugly metal buildings? .....luck warm mediocrity? ...fly-over city? ....anything?

That's right Panda, my Vision for OKC is one of unlimited success and being better than we are today.

What is your vision of OKC? ...more of the same? ...ugly metal buildings? .....luck warm mediocrity? ...fly-over city? ....anything?

There's nothing wrong with being a city booster and having unabashed civic pride but do all that in a realm of realty. The more rational you are, the more sane you will come off.

RE: Grammar, well it is not worthy of my time....spell check, not so much either. But those of you that are "still in school / just got out of HS / in college", will know that I have been out for some time and my time is more valuable than that.

In a professional environment, grammar is always important. Even on a message board, if you intend for the reader to be convinced by the power of your arguments, you want to appear intelligent and well-educated. Good grammar doesn't really take any longer to type than bad grammar. If your arguments are unconvincing because your posts are full of spelling errors, then in fact you have wasted your "valuable" time.


Now, back to the topic at hand. The Convention Center. This is a must for OKC. Our city is not identifiable as a convention city and it needs to be. This is why the CC Must Make an impact in Design & Scale and not mediocre in any way.

I will agree with you that we don't have any sort of impressive convention center. We need one. It's the front door to many businesses from out of state.


That's right Panda, my Vision for OKC is one of unlimited success and being better than we are today.

What is your vision of OKC? ...more of the same? ...ugly metal buildings? .....luck warm mediocrity? ...fly-over city? ....anything?

OKC spent many decades following a "philosophy of cheap". If possible, spend no money. As a result we had a very low cost of living, but we also had nothing fun to do. Right now my goal for the city is for us to judiciously use our resources to build a fun and healthy city. That doesn't mean spending a billion dollars to create a top of the line convention center (which is what you'd have to spend to get the best). But we do need a new one, and I'm very comfortable with the city spending $250 million to build it.

My vision for OKC is that over the next 20 years, we're going to build affordable amenities that the city can really use. The MAPS projects have provided excellent value for their cost. None of the things we've built have been the "nicest in the world", but they're all great improvements to OKC. Things I want? I want a light rail system that connects Edmond to Norman, and Midwest City to Will Rogers. I want a streetcar system downtown that is about 5 times bigger than our current plan. I want a large stadium for Major League Soccer that can (just in case) be upgraded for some other sport that might be played on a big green rectangular field. I want river improvements that stretch farther to the east. I want a boardwalk that follows the north side of the river for a mile or two with fun things to do, and that big Ferris Wheel. I want to fill in all the gaps downtown, with thriving businesses and a walkable environment, all the way from the Capitol building to the shore of the river, across into Capitol Hill, over to the Farmer's Market and down into Stockyard City.

We aren't going to turn into Manhattan. But we can be a much better version of Oklahoma City.

There's nothing wrong with being a city booster and having unabashed civic pride but do all that in a realm of realty. The more rational you are, the more sane you will come off.

Josh, Thanks for the coaching tips. I'm not running for office, so I'm not that concerned with losing a few opinions on this forum. I'm for pushing the envelope of the standard "typical way doing business" and moving OKC off high center for economic development.

...now, what's a Texan on here for?

...now, what's a Texan on here for?

Aside from the occasional dialogue with other posters on this forum, I maintain a San Antonio-centric thread on the forum.

http://www.okctalk.com/other-communities/35797-san-antonio-%7C-deep-heart-3.html

Josh, Thanks for the coaching tips. I'm not running for office, so I'm not that concerned with losing a few opinions on this forum. I'm for pushing the envelope of the standard "typical way doing business" and moving OKC off high center for economic development.

...now, what's a Texan on here for?
You're not losing a few opinions. You basically have never had anyone supporting any of your opinions from the day you started posting. Post away though.

You're not losing a few opinions. You basically have never had anyone supporting any of your opinions from the day you started posting. Post away though.

I represent that silent majority that doesn't post ( too busy w/ normal lives ) that are tired of things going down the same path, and ending up with the Okie standard.

The group that is tired of our ODOT Engineering ( Cloverleafs ) & ( Piling Dirt ) instead of better designed layouts, the On-Off ramps we have that have only 200ft to manage your families life at 65 mph. / The Exit ramps off major interstates when traveling at 70 mph and hit the corner at 20 mph. ???? / The goup that is tired of hearing "we caint afford it" or "we ben do'n it for 50 years". / The group that says "does every building have to have metal siding on it"? / The group that is tired of having to ask "why don't we have that too"...why do I have to buy it in Texas?" ... you know, that group.

I represent that silent majority that doesn't post ( too busy w/ normal lives ) that are tired of things going down the same path, and ending up with the Okie standard.

The group that is tired of our ODOT Engineering ( Cloverleafs ) & ( Piling Dirt ) instead of better designed layouts, the On-Off ramps we have that have only 200ft to manage your families life at 65 mph. / The Exit ramps off major interstates when traveling at 70 mph and hit the corner at 20 mph. ???? / The goup that is tired of hearing "we caint afford it" or "we ben do'n it for 50 years". / The group that says "does every building have to have metal siding on it"? / The group that is tired of having to ask "why don't we have that too"...why do I have to buy it in Texas?" ... you know, that group.

....and the group that wants the Convention Center to be an Iconic Facility that makes us so proud, we want all our out-of-towners to use it on their next convention.

http://youtu.be/WarIBb4spvo

If this does come to a vote, how is the Chamber and the city going to sell the CC to voters? Are we going to get the high-flown rhetoric or should they sell it as a city gathering place? Personally, I would show videos of the Cox in all its glory and remind people that without a new CC we'll be using it for the next 20+ years. We know Ed is going to use all the Sanders conclusions (I'm not going to call it data until I see some).The city will either have to have good data to counter it or go a completely different direction and leave Ed with an irrelevant argument.

That's right Panda, my Vision for OKC is one of unlimited success and being better than we are today.

What is your vision of OKC? ...more of the same? ...ugly metal buildings? .....luck warm mediocrity? ...fly-over city? ....anything?Actually I advocated for the Olympics on this board about it possibly coming to Tulsa and I quickly found out the reality of the situation.

It just seems you sometimes start on an idea and you won't let go no matter how much debt it puts you, no matter if the market would support it or not, no matter if it is truly in the better interest of the city, you just want it done now.

I represent that silent majority that doesn't post ( too busy w/ normal lives ) that are tired of things going down the same path, and ending up with the Okie standard.

The group that is tired of our ODOT Engineering ( Cloverleafs ) & ( Piling Dirt ) instead of better designed layouts, the On-Off ramps we have that have only 200ft to manage your families life at 65 mph. / The Exit ramps off major interstates when traveling at 70 mph and hit the corner at 20 mph. ???? / The goup that is tired of hearing "we caint afford it" or "we ben do'n it for 50 years". / The group that says "does every building have to have metal siding on it"? / The group that is tired of having to ask "why don't we have that too"...why do I have to buy it in Texas?" ... you know, that group.Ok, now I couldn't agree more with you on this. Now, we are on the same page with these issues.

BTW, the metal siding issue is quickly changing.

I like OKVision4U's enthusiasm. If everyone in OKC shared it, developers wouldn't be able to get by with half the things they get by with in this town. However, enthusiasm also need to go together with realism. The Summer Olympics isn't happening in OKC in our lifetime, but a very attractive Tier 2 convention center tied to a four-diamond hotel is a very real possibility if politics doesn't screw it up.

Ok, now I couldn't agree more with you on this. Now, we are on the same page with these issues.

BTW, the metal siding issue is quickly changing.

Yes, these things bother / affect ALL of us.

I like OKVision4U's enthusiasm. If everyone in OKC shared it, developers wouldn't be able to get by with half the things they get by with in this town. However, enthusiasm also need to go together with realism. The Summer Olympics isn't happening in OKC in our lifetime, but a very attractive Tier 2 convention center tied to a four-diamond hotel is a very real possibility if politics doesn't screw it up.

Thank you. We may never reach that goal of the Summer Olymics in OKC in my lifetime, but I would like to have us on that path where we can have that as an option and OKC would be in a great position even to considered a candidate.

That should be our goal.

If this does come to a vote, how is the Chamber and the city going to sell the CC to voters? Are we going to get the high-flown rhetoric or should they sell it as a city gathering place? Personally, I would show videos of the Cox in all its glory and remind people that without a new CC we'll be using it for the next 20+ years. We know Ed is going to use all the Sanders conclusions (I'm not going to call it data until I see some).The city will either have to have good data to counter it or go a completely different direction and leave Ed with an irrelevant argument.

The problem is that Sanders shows tons of data. The economic calculus doesn't make a good case for a $250 convention center in OKC. Sorry.

I think if you build not just an argument but also a facility around the premise of a great gathering space, you've done the best you can. This CC isn't doomed yet but snatching victory from the jaws of defeat will require more adept leadership and rethinking the early 2000s model convention complex. What will be successful in 2020!??

The problem is that Sanders shows tons of data. The economic calculus doesn't make a good case for a $250 convention center in OKC. Sorry.

I think if you build not just an argument but also a facility around the premise of a great gathering space, you've done the best you can. This CC isn't doomed yet but snatching victory from the jaws of defeat will require more adept leadership and rethinking the early 2000s model convention complex. What will be successful in 2020!??

Of course he shows tons of data. But, the ONLY thing he's evaluating is profit relative to cost in a very general sense. He doesn't look at age of convention centers, he doesn't look at how they were financed, he doesn't ever give specific data on associated income, he never discusses intangible benefits, he only looks at convention centers relative to national conventions and he downplays any local or regional uses. His assumption from the start is that no one needs a new convention center. I've shown that he grossly exaggerates hotel data and BDP showed an instance of sloppy evaluation in Las Vegas. My mother-in-law once told me, "Don't believe the people who always say never or always." Her corollary was "Never say never, never say always". I think this is one of the only wise things she ever said, but I think it applies to both Sanders and the convention center consultants.

As I said in the other thread, the danger is that by promoting something by exaggeration, people move 180 degrees away. Like the Chamber people who swallow the CC data because it tells them what they want to believe, those people who think spending money on city projects is inherently evil or wasteful are just as happy to swallow Sanders data without examining it.

There are other cities building convention centers that don't have near as much going on as OKC. Voters approved this as a part of the MAPS III initiative. You mean to tell me that Oklahoma City is now contemplating to become a 'CAN'T DO' city? ''

This will be a travesty of progress if we allow someone like Dr. Ed 'Slick' Shadid to use the convention center or any voter approved MAPS project as a 'pawn' to prompt up his platform for mayor.

Oklahoma City has progressed as a result of our previous MAPS' referendums. Cities leaders have made good on what was promised to the voters who approved these projects.

The 'pay as you go' or 'build as you collect' the sales taxes has made OKC the envy of many American cities.

Hampton Roads, VA: Unity In Hampton Roads Is Just A Matter Of Time, Development Expert Believes - Daily Press (http://articles.dailypress.com/1997-06-16/news/9706160048_1_rick-horrow-metropolitan-area-projects-strategies-radar)

Watch as these cities (Albuquerque, NM, Richmond, VA, Wichita, KS, Lexington & Louisville, Kentucky) attempt to duplicate some form of OKC's success.

"The original Metropolitan Area Projects has become the talk of the country, and to date, more than 24 civic delegations have traveled to Oklahoma City to determine how this success story can be replicated in their hometowns."--Cities come to Oklahoma City learn from MAPS experience | News OK (http://newsok.com/cities-come-to-oklahoma-city-learn-from-maps-experience/article/3910491)


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Let's not pretend that if we vote to roll back MAPS we will get a cheaper convention center or a Cox remodel. The truth is we will get nothing. We will have the Cox Center as our convention center and city gathering center indefinitely. Because the people who don't want a new convention center for $250 million by and large don't want one for $150 million, or don't want to spend $150 to renovate the Cox Center. Nor would the city be able to roll out a MAPS 4 immediately with a convention center included.

The other ghastly alternative would be if they found a legal way to build it anyway, gutting other MAPS projects. MAPS would then basically go down in flames and publicly funded city improvements would stop dead. No money for transit. No money for anything we want outside of the basics.

Just food for thought.

I'm posting some pictures of convention centers from cities that we would consider beneath us (Omaha, Des Moines), cities that are fairly arguable as peer cities (albuquerque, memphis, salt lake city) and cities that are not out of the reach of aspiration (portland, sacramento) just for comparison.

6563656465656566656765686569

Here is Nashville's convention center:

http://www.djc.com/stories/images/20130502/NashvilleConventionCenter_big.jpg
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/originals/24/82/ff/2482ff14ee84bcfc5eaccd8ce0d42c70.jpg
http://www.jonesphillips.com/includes/chrome/portfolio/CurrentProjects/MCC.jpg

I hope ours is more vertical, but this is world class.

And my first thought: How do you compete with that? Second thought: We can't. I guess we have to think smaller.

I find it egregious how it dwarfs the city behind it. Wouldn't want to live near that thing.

My favorite CC design was the one on the substation site that had apartments along the west wall facing the park. I want to say it was 8-10 stories tall. If it's really true that the land price for the current site selection is nearing $75 million, and I'm not sure I believe that, the substation site should enter the dialogue again, with its $30 million price tag.

I find it egregious how it dwarfs the city behind it. Wouldn't want to live near that thing.

I think it is hideously ugly and is completely inharmonious with Nashville.

I can't believe anybody would be arguing against the convention center, or that the Cox is good enough for the next 20 years, especially when cities half the size of OKC have better convention centers. Nashville's convention center looks amazing. Who cares if it doesn't fit all the standards of new urbanism, it's an attractive center and represents the city of Nashville well. OKC can have an attractive convention center as well if the people want it.

Just because it doesn't have to be urban, it doesn't mean it can't be urban. A couple years back I had the opportunity to visit the Philadelphia convention center, and at the time I thought it fit very nicely with the downtown there. Of course it has the added benefit of sitting right next door to the Reading Terminal Market, which made for a great lunch spot on several of the days I was in town.

I think it is hideously ugly and is completely inharmonious with Nashville.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford NOT to build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford NOT to build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I agree. This convention center will go a long way towards bringing OKC ahead of places like Tulsa, Wichita, or Little Rock. The Little Rock convention center is actually around the same size as the Cox. The Hot Springs convention center is bigger. Also think about this. If OKC doesn't built a new convention center, chances are Tulsa will. Do we really want the biggest and most high profile conventions in the state happening in Tulsa rather than OKC?

I think it is hideously ugly and is completely inharmonious with Nashville.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford to NOT build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

Next maps project should be for street car expansion and to finish out a world class CC with hotel. I would vote for it and I know many others would as well. It's time for OKC to do these things right and not just to bare bones minimum standards.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford to NOT build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I 100% agree. We dont' need to just equal Tulsa / Wichita ..., no. We need to leave them far behind. This is our chance to do something amazing. ( We already have average, we want more than average ).

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.
...

they kinda did on the roof. Not the purtiest ge-tar I ever seen, but might look better if one is flying over and looking down.

At the very least OKC will have a better place for events which in it self make OKC a more attractive place. I was very much in favor of the first MAPS projects in 1993 and the arguments were similar. "Building a new arena is a waste of tax payer dollars", "we don't need a new arena because we have the cox center" were the most common followed by "why are building a ball park" and my personal favorite ...."why do we need to put locks in the North Canadian River?" The first maps barley passed and OKC is damn lucky that the citizens believed in our city enough to take a chance and not listen to outsiders who told us we were all crazy, and that it won't work. Oklahoma City would probably be a shadow of what it is today without MAPS. Every great city is defined by their downtown and nobody wants to live in a suburb of nothing.

I agree. They should have just put a giant guitar shaped building there.

But OKC can not afford NOT to build a CC that can compete with KC-STL-Austin-Ft. Worth-Denver ect. It's time for OKC to take a step up and move ahead of the Tulsa's-Whichita'-Omahas of the world. You either get on board of get left behind. If OKC wants to grow and become a serious contender then a new world class cc. needs to be built. If it costs 500 mil. then so be it. By the time we pay it off we can pass another maps for a new arena and keep momentum going. Maybe the maps project needs to include all the counties surrounding OKC next time since these suburbs also benefit from a strong OKC. Your either with us or against us.

I'm sorry but I agree in theory, but in practice is plunking down $500M on a CC the best way to do that? There are certain irrefutable realities about the convention industry that may make a $250M state of the art CC the right strategic investment for OKC. We will spend the money and there probably will be a MAPS 4 and we'll spend that money. But on what?

I have a feeling that if the trends continue for the next ten years as we draw closer to that conversation, a traditional CC expansion won't be the right plan and we will know that. There will be a better way to spend another $250M that will put us up w Denver, KC, and Atx.

And my first thought: How do you compete with that? Second thought: We can't. I guess we have to think smaller.Why couldn't we compete with it?

I find it egregious how it dwarfs the city behind it. Wouldn't want to live near that thing."Dwarfs the city behind it"?????? Really!? That's strange. It is a very beautiful structure and almost anyone would be lucky to live by it, I know I wouldn't mind living by it.

Too big. We couldn't compete for conventions that need that kind of space without spending a lot more than $250 million, I suspect.

I can't believe anybody would be arguing against the convention center, or that the Cox is good enough for the next 20 years, especially when cities half the size of OKC have better convention centers. Nashville's convention center looks amazing. Who cares if it doesn't fit all the standards of new urbanism, it's an attractive center and represents the city of Nashville well. OKC can have an attractive convention center as well if the people want it.I couldn't agree more with this post. I'm not a fan of new urbanism anyways, but this beauty blows any new urbanism project out of the water, imo.

Too big. We couldn't compete for conventions that need that kind of space without spending a lot more than $250 million, I suspect.Well, I believe Nashville spent around $600 million on theirs. If what some are saying about the finalized cost of our convention center being $800 million, then we could easily support a competing one. I also think theirs looks bigger because it is sprawled out more instead of being more vertical.

Maybe you're right though, I honestly haven't spent much time researching this matter. Not sure if OKC would even be able to attract conventions like that even with a better convention center than Nashville's.