Let's build one with just 12 rooms. It would be cheaper to maintain and full all the time. We could charge $10,000 a night because of the scarcity.



Maybe, depending on the rooms. :)

http://www.metropostcard.com/picstopicals/t-harem.jpg.jpg

^ This.



They didn't build a new Toyota Center just to put the new scoreboard in and OKC won't either.

They didn't, the scoreboard is an upgrade to the previous one.....

Honestly, the cotton mill would be great for a football and basketball stadium to be built on. The problem would be where do you the parking garage to take care of everyone coming to that area? Facing I-40, the boulevard or shields?

It would take offsite parking and shuttles. I went to a Dallas game and parked a long way away from the stadium. It seems to work well there.

From today's City Council Meeting Agenda - I assume it was approved by Council:


TO: City Council

FROM: Mayor

SUBJECT: Appointments to the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center
Subcommittee

I intend to submit for confirmation the following to serve as a member of the MAPS
3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center Subcommittee:

Gary Marrs (Citizen Member 1) At Large

If confirmed, Gary Marrs will replace Kirk Humphreys, whose resignation has been
accepted.

I wonder how Spartan is going to cope.

From today's City Council Meeting Agenda - I assume it was approved by Council:


TO: City Council

FROM: Mayor

SUBJECT: Appointments to the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center
Subcommittee

I intend to submit for confirmation the following to serve as a member of the MAPS
3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center Subcommittee:

Gary Marrs (Citizen Member 1) At Large

If confirmed, Gary Marrs will replace Kirk Humphreys, whose resignation has been
accepted.

I wonder how Spartan is going to cope.

+1

+1

Marrs probably doesn't even know about this. Like his council seat, he just assumed he won approval.

From today's City Council Meeting Agenda - I assume it was approved by Council:


TO: City Council

FROM: Mayor

SUBJECT: Appointments to the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center
Subcommittee

I intend to submit for confirmation the following to serve as a member of the MAPS
3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center Subcommittee:

Gary Marrs (Citizen Member 1) At Large

If confirmed, Gary Marrs will replace Kirk Humphreys, whose resignation has been
accepted.

I wonder how Spartan is going to cope.

This is just my opinion of course, but I have always thought of Citizens Advisory Boards as being a kind of check and balance, a voice of the people from outside the loop, so to speak. I find this a gross distortion of what that's all about. And Marrs would be replacing Kirk Humphreys? Inside baseball downtown, all the time. Blatant and arrogant at the same time.

This is just my opinion of course, but I have always thought of Citizens Advisory Boards as being a kind of check and balance, a voice of the people from outside the loop, so to speak.

Yes, this does seem strange.

Isn't the whole point of a Citizen Advisory Board to provide a non-political perspective?

In fact, isn't the definition of a "citizen" in this context anyone OTHER than a political official?

And we have the City Council voting on one of their own members??

why don't we have a normal citizen as the replacement? Why are all of our committees filled with ONLY the big wigs and officials that are already elected to posts or have a vested corporate interest? I'm not saying we shouldn't have our business and government leaders engaged and on these oversight committees; but I am a bit concerned that we ONLY have that instead of perhaps an impartial yet highly informed/educated citizen (like professor from OCU, civil engineer working at somewhere other than Cobb Engineering, or a health care worker) of Oklahoma City, city. That would create a balance that would also give the public even more trust into the process since one of 'our own' would be on the committee and also, normal citizens could learn about these processes. There's nothing better in business process management than having a fresh, out-of-the-box prospective from someone who is educated/informed/interested yet far removed from the 'process'.

Yes, this does seem strange.

Isn't the whole point of a Citizen Advisory Board to provide a non-political perspective?

In fact, isn't the definition of a "citizen" in this context anyone OTHER than a political official?

And we have the City Council voting on one of their own members??

That would make sense if he wasn't replacing the previous Mayor.

That would make sense if he wasn't replacing the previous Mayor.

Which only makes it doubly bizarre. The Mayor nominates a former City Councilman to replace a former Mayor on the Citizens Advisory Board. It makes no sense.

It is our very own House of Habsburg

Why did Humphreys resign?

Why did Humphreys resign?

I don't know but I am sure it has nothing to do with his opposition to the location. cough cough....

From today's City Council Meeting Agenda - I assume it was approved by Council:


TO: City Council

FROM: Mayor

SUBJECT: Appointments to the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center
Subcommittee

I intend to submit for confirmation the following to serve as a member of the MAPS
3 Citizens Advisory Board’s Convention Center Subcommittee:

Gary Marrs (Citizen Member 1) At Large

If confirmed, Gary Marrs will replace Kirk Humphreys, whose resignation has been
accepted.

I wonder how Spartan is going to cope.

The better question is how anyone that is informed is going to cope??

I am utterly speechless. How can ANYONE defend this?

The Oklahoma City Council on Tuesday is set to consider paying $100,000 to Public Financial Management to draw up potential funding plans for a convention hotel

Oklahoma City prepares to hire consultants to look at funding for convention hotel | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/3843062)

Oh good, another opportunity to ponder whether any of these firms have ever concluded that a new convention center is a bad idea, and then stab out my eyes in agony...

Oh good, another opportunity to ponder whether any of these firms have ever concluded that a new convention center is a bad idea, and then stab out my eyes in agony...

Put the Ipad down...lol.

To be fair Spartan, when a city hires a firm to provide funding plans for a convention hotel, it's fair for the vendor to presume that city has already resolved they have a need for a convention hotel.

Whether the city resolved that question correctly or not is a completely separate issue and pretty far outside the scope of the vendor's sphere of influence.

There's an article in the Journal Record saying that the study for the CC hotel has been postponed. I can't see the article behind the pay wall, but the little blurb says that a market consultant says it may not even be necessary. That seems to go against everything we've been told about this project so far.

Anyway, here's a link: OKC convention hotel funding study put off | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/06/11/convention-hotel-funding-study-put-off-real-estate/)

Oklahoma City Calls on Consultants to Plan $50 Million Convention Center | International Meetings Review (http://www.internationalmeetingsreview.com/oklahoma/oklahoma-city-calls-consultants-plan-50-million-convention-center-95939)

That link is a blatant theft of my story. Some hack thought they could take my story, chop it up, and make it their own. In this vein, I hope that no website would take renderings not in the public record, renderings I worked hard to obtain exclusively, and then post them without permission of either the owner of the renderings or @newsok.

That link is a blatant theft of my story. Some hack thought they could take my story, chop it up, and make it their own.

As I was reading that link I kept thinking to myself - haven't I already read this before. It turns out - I have.

It is right here: http://newsok.com/article/3843062

Oklahoma City Calls on Consultants to Plan $50 Million Convention Center | International Meetings Review (http://www.internationalmeetingsreview.com/oklahoma/oklahoma-city-calls-consultants-plan-50-million-convention-center-95939)

The Journal Record article says that they're canceling the planning meeting. Why the discrepancy?

That link is a blatant theft of my story. Some hack thought they could take my story, chop it up, and make it their own. In this vein, I hope that no website would take renderings not in the public record, renderings I worked hard to obtain exclusively, and then post them without permission of either the owner of the renderings or @newsok.
Welcome back.

That link is a blatant theft of my story. Some hack thought they could take my story, chop it up, and make it their own. In this vein, I hope that no website would take renderings not in the public record, renderings I worked hard to obtain exclusively, and then post them without permission of either the owner of the renderings or @newsok.

And I would hope that all will credit the sources were their story's come from.

Boulder, I've never plagiarized anyone at any time. The website in question took quotes and information from my story - quotes from interviews I did - and made it their own. That plagiarism. The idea that two different people might go after the same story is not plagiarism. If one reporter sees a story in competing news source, and if they do all their own work and do their own story, this is not plagiarism.
I'm posting tonight because I'm seeing my work being taken without permission. I am otherwise going to remain uninvolved with OKCTalk for the foreseeable future.
N/M

There's an article in the Journal Record saying that the study for the CC hotel has been postponed. I can't see the article behind the pay wall, but the little blurb says that a market consultant says it may not even be necessary. That seems to go against everything we've been told about this project so far.

Anyway, here's a link: OKC convention hotel funding study put off | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/06/11/convention-hotel-funding-study-put-off-real-estate/)

The video from today's Council is worth watching. Cathy O'Connor wanted to start two studies at once and have them run in parallel. One by Stone Consulting would assess the market for whether a hotel is viable and if so how big, the other by PFM would look at how it could be financed. Council was adamant (I was very impressed with James Grenier) that the studies should proceed sequentially. Pat Ryan pointed out that there might be zero need for such a hotel (though he didn't think so) and if so the second (as noted by the Mayor several times, very expensive) study would not be needed. Usual suspects jumped on the bandwagon as the debate ensued. The initial presentation by Cathy O'Connor was stretching it quite a bit in the way she implied the hotel was part of the MAPS 3 first phase of the convention center and that it had been in the campaign literature. Shadid went after that as to be expected. All in all very interesting.

Edit - I went back and listened to McAtee's comments again. He said, "I do think the information presented from up here was slanted in one way." So I think he was getting a dig in at Shadid's earlier comments in the meeting, and not about earlier promotion of MAPS 3. Indeed he also said that it didn't do any good to sit here and debate past history, again presumably a dig at Shadid. I'm sure they must get on well with each other off the horseshoe.

Boulder, I've never plagiarized anyone at any time. The website in question took quotes and information from my story - quotes from interviews I did - and made it their own. That plagiarism. The idea that two different people might go after the same story is not plagiarism. If one reporter sees a story in competing news source, and if they do all their own work and do their own story, this is not plagiarism.
I'm posting tonight because I'm seeing my work being taken without permission. I am otherwise going to remain uninvolved with OKCTalk for the foreseeable future.
N/M
Never said you did. Stuck pig squealing?

Never said you did. Stuck pig squealing?

It's unfortunate that the relationship between Steve and this board has deteriorated. There's really no reason for this. BoulderSonner you could just make your point without including "Stuck pig squealing?" Then a civil discussion could ensue. Instead your point is lost because of your approach. Unnecessary and unproductive.

Who has plagiarized Steve here?

Who has plagiarized Steve here?

Questex {sic} - the author of the International Meetings Review "article" (and I use the term loosely...)

Questex {sic} - the author of the International Meetings Review "article" (and I use the term loosely...)

OK, so instead of yet again impugning this discussion community, shouldn't the journalist take up his concerns with the editor of International Meetings Review?

So, is there now a chance that the Convention Center does not get a hotel?: Oklahoma City convention center hotel study put on hold | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-convention-center-hotel-study-put-on-hold/article/3844480)

OK, so instead of yet again impugning this discussion community, shouldn't the journalist take up his concerns with the editor of International Meetings Review?

And how do you know he hasn't? I see know problem mentioning it here when the article was linked here.

There's an article in the Journal Record saying that the study for the CC hotel has been postponed. I can't see the article behind the pay wall, but the little blurb says that a market consultant says it may not even be necessary. That seems to go against everything we've been told about this project so far.

Anyway, here's a link: OKC convention hotel funding study put off | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2013/06/11/convention-hotel-funding-study-put-off-real-estate/)

Without a subscription, there is nothing that can be gleaned from that link.

And how do you know he hasn't? I see know problem mentioning it here when the article was linked here.

I have no idea, but why is he impugning the message board posters for something they have nothing to do with? When an article is published online, no one reading it knows how it was sourced. I'm guessing International Meetings Review is not a widely read publication nonetheless.

I have no idea, but why is he impugning the message board posters for something they have nothing to do with? When an article is published online, no one reading it knows how it was sourced. I'm guessing International Meetings Review is not a widely read publication nonetheless.

I saw nothing in his post that was impugning a message board poster.

I saw nothing in his post that was impugning a message board poster.

Never mind. I think we all understand soonerguru's relationship with Steve & why we shouldn't take his questioning of Steve very seriously.

It's unfortunate that the relationship between Steve and this board has deteriorated. There's really no reason for this. BoulderSonner you could just make your point without including "Stuck pig squealing?" Then a civil discussion could ensue. Instead your point is lost because of your approach. Unnecessary and unproductive.


Exactly.

Never mind. I think we all understand soonerguru's relationship with Steve & why we shouldn't take his questioning of Steve very seriously.

You have no idea what I know.

You have no idea what I know.

I don't care what you know, it still gets obnoxious.

But for the record, I'm sure you have great reason to be contrary to every post of his. Like you said, I don't know what you know, so I'm not going to question you on that part.

Never mind. I think we all understand soonerguru's relationship with Steve & why we shouldn't take his questioning of Steve very seriously.

Let's not forget that Steve was defending himself from BoulderSooner not Soonerguru. Soonerguru was just asking a simple question. I think in the overall scheme of things, Steve just needs to cancel his membership to okctalk because he turns a whole lot of nothing into something.

Let's not forget that Steve was defending himself from BoulderSooner not Soonerguru. Soonerguru was just asking a simple question. I think in the overall scheme of things, Steve just needs to cancel his membership to okctalk because he turns a whole lot of nothing into something.

He didn't defend himself to soonerguru because he got offline. BoulderSooner does it just as much -- probably more -- as soonerguru. It's both, not just one, & they both do it every chance they get. They're not the only ones in the world that have a problem with somebody, so I probably shouldn't have even brought it up. I appreciate what Steve does, but I know that there's not a lot of people that like him, especially since this whole "Steve Lackmeyer vs OKCTalk" fiasco began.

I'm not sure what soonerguru is alluding to, but honestly, I don't care. That's between him & Steve. I'm just some soul that gets on OKCTalk -- as well as reads Steve's articles, blogs, & chats -- to know what's going on around OKC, not to watch people hash out their problems against someone else, even though I'm pretty much doing that myself right now.

I will say BoulderSooner & soonerguru are both quality posters, though. They bring a lot more to the table than I do, that's for sure.

Is the rendering shown in Steve's article the final one?

Without a subscription, there is nothing that can be gleaned from that link.

Actually, there was something to be gleaned from the line that said a market consultant said the project might not even be necessary.

No matter, Steve provided us with a story that explains what's going on. Oklahoma City convention center hotel study put on hold | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-convention-center-hotel-study-put-on-hold/article/3844480)

Is the rendering shown in Steve's article the final one?

Will, I don't see any renderings with the article. Can you link to what you're seeing?

I am not at war with OKC Talk. I am, however, insisting that as much as I don't lift images and materials from this site without permission, I'm asking the same courtesy be given to The Oklahoman. There are a couple of members of this site who have created tension because I was asking questions they didn't like. As a result, they've been on the attack ever since, creating false impressions (including a war). I admire Pete. I like OKC Talk. But there are a couple of members who are making it a site that I can no longer be involved with. ("stuck pig" "you don't know what I know" other personal attacks). Soonerguru, you don't know squat about me. We've never met, I've never had a conversation with you other than what's been on this board. Anything you'd claim to know about me is either well known or fantasy. Now I wish people would quit talking about me, and get back to the issues. N/M

Boulder, I've never plagiarized anyone at any time. The website in question took quotes and information from my story - quotes from interviews I did - and made it their own. That plagiarism. The idea that two different people might go after the same story is not plagiarism. If one reporter sees a story in competing news source, and if they do all their own work and do their own story, this is not plagiarism.
I'm posting tonight because I'm seeing my work being taken without permission. I am otherwise going to remain uninvolved with OKCTalk for the foreseeable future.
N/M

Just a heads up, Steve. But you might want to send this opinion to the New's OK sports writers who regularly lift stories from ESPN.com and other places to fill their own stories without giving credit.

I appreciate what Steve does, but I know that there's not a lot of people that like him, especially since this whole "Steve Lackmeyer vs OKCTalk" fiasco began.

I think a lot of us appreciate and like Steve. Like anyone with an extensive amount of publicly accessible materials, there are occasionally things people are frustrated with, but Steve does a good balancing act. Without his reputation for discretion, we wouldn't even get peeks into a lot of what goes on in this City.

I hope we can all respect the reasonable restrictions the Oklahoman has to place on use of its intellectual property, and that Steve has to work within the framework of his organization's policies.

PS: Not directly relevant in this thread, but related to our treatment of Steve, I know he's taken flack for his advice a few weeks ago that we not judge the Springhill Suites project before seeing the design (which I think is universally revolting to all on this board, including me). He was right, though, about not prejudging it. It could have been vastly less offensive even at that price point, and it could have also been a higher quality phased project. I haven't seen anything which suggests he ever had a favorable view of the design which has been revealed.

And I would hope that all will credit the sources were their story's come from.

Burn

Just a heads up, Steve. But you might want to send this opinion to the New's OK sports writers who regularly lift stories from ESPN.com and other places to fill their own stories without giving credit.

To be fair, I think it is the other way around. ESPN uses local media to provide most of their stories. ESPN doesn't have a staff of writers covering sporting events across the country.

It's unfortunate that the relationship between Steve and this board has deteriorated. There's really no reason for this. BoulderSonner you could just make your point without including "Stuck pig squealing?" Then a civil discussion could ensue. Instead your point is lost because of your approach. Unnecessary and unproductive.

i agree .. it was late and that was a poor choice of words ..


what i do find funny is steve saying he is not going to be " involved with this site is funny" ... because i know he has checked up on this site during his last self imposed absence and i'm sure he will continue to do so ..

i wish someone could dig up all of the newsok downtown business stories over the last couple of years and then find when those actually broke on okctalk ...

i bet the list would be very very interesting ..

To be fair, I think it is the other way around. ESPN uses local media to provide most of their stories. ESPN doesn't have a staff of writers covering sporting events across the country.

Not even close. Guys on ESPN/Grantland will post an article and within a day or 2 you will see a similar article on NewsOK simply reworded and adding some of their own thoughts. It's crazy how much it happens. I rarely read an ESPN.com story that needs or uses local sports writers. Maybe a few quotes but they aren't concerned about the local view, all the information they need happens through watching films, getting quotes through press conferences, and through their own team sources.

i wish someone could dig up all of the newsok downtown business stories over the last couple of years and then find when those actually broke on okctalk ...

i bet the list would be very very interesting ..

Why would it be interesting? This site is primarily focused on downtown with some of the poster being the very people Steve reports on. That is like saying - show me all the OU football stories and also let me know what Bob Stoops talks to his players about. OKCTalk gets most of its info straight from the horses mouth so unless Steve gets info from a different horse, of course it will match. What Steve can't do is publish stuff that isn't verified or might not happen. Imagine if the Oklahoman had been running a 2 year long Mystery Tower story.

I went to a Convention Center Subcommittee meeting a couple months ago. In all honesty, I agree with Larry Nichols and his skepticism on this one. Let the free market handle the need for hotel rooms.

Mike Carrier will go on and on about how we need the massing provided by a convention center hotel to be competitive to check off some boxes.

But what if diversity in hotel options developed by many smaller hoteliers helps maintain and accelerate a rapidly growing vibrancy? That vibrancy being the "attractor" that causes those officials deciding convention locations to want to come here?

I went to a Convention Center Subcommittee meeting a couple months ago. In all honesty, I agree with Larry Nichols and his skepticism on this one. Let the free market handle the need for hotel rooms.

Mike Carrier will go on and on about how we need the massing provided by a convention center hotel to be competitive to check off some boxes.

But what if diversity in hotel options developed by many smaller hoteliers helps maintain and accelerate a rapidly growing vibrancy? That vibrancy being the "attractor" that causes those officials deciding convention locations to want to come here?

Most convention hotels are going to have things that a bunch of smaller hotels potentially won't have: Conference Rooms/Ballrooms, the ability to give massive discounts, restaurants/lounges. Furthermore, they would not be located on the site of the convention center and unless a developer ponies up the money to build a massive hotel close by, there is not a lot of space available in and around the Convention center site that would allow hotel development to be reasonably close.

Now, if they changed the site over to East of Robinson, then I could see a better argument for not needing a convention hotel...but otherwise, it will leave a bad impression on the city if convention goers have no option to get a hotel room within 100 yards of the convention center.

I went to a Convention Center Subcommittee meeting a couple months ago. In all honesty, I agree with Larry Nichols and his skepticism on this one. Let the free market handle the need for hotel rooms.

Mike Carrier will go on and on about how we need the massing provided by a convention center hotel to be competitive to check off some boxes.

But what if diversity in hotel options developed by many smaller hoteliers helps maintain and accelerate a rapidly growing vibrancy? That vibrancy being the "attractor" that causes those officials deciding convention locations to want to come here?

Finally, a post on topic!

I'm frankly out of the know on this CC process, but I have attended a lot of conventions. Planners like being able to reserve a big block of hotel rooms at just one or two hotels. It's much easier than having to call and deal with several hotels, along with several price ranges, distances, etc. And often times, the economy of scale that comes with reserving so many rooms allows conventioneers to take advantage of special rates. I imagine this would be much more difficult if you are dealing with a lot of hotels.

I see what you are saying a lot of smaller hotels adding a vibrancy factor. But I think that can only be pulled off in cities with much larger existing hotel room counts in their CBD/Convention district. And the hotels would need to have a varying level of quality. OKC, with it current stock of Springhill Suites/Hampton Inn/Residence Inn etc., would need to step it up a little bit in terms of quality.

Most general citizens have no concept of either the benefits of convention centers or the requirements of such. CC or a CC hotel will never be "cool". We are now into only supporting "cool". Business and jobs aren't "cool" .... unless you don't have one. OKC isn't close to sniffing the top 50 as a convention center location and it looks doubtful it will be in the future. It is a shame.

That said, I am not into "dueling experts". To spend another $100,000 for the disputing side to ridicule or ignore is a waste of money. We already know who does and doesn't believe in the need. No report will change either's opinion. We just need to have a vote at the council and either do it or don't do it. Same with the rail system...if Shadid wants busses and the others want rail, let's just vote and get on with it as fast and as efficiently as possible. Quit wasting our time and money when it is doubtful that opinions will change and there will suddenly be surprising NEW information.

Most general citizens have no concept of either the benefits of convention centers or the requirements of such. CC or a CC hotel will never be "cool". We are now into only supporting "cool". Business and jobs aren't "cool" .... unless you don't have one. OKC isn't close to sniffing the top 50 as a convention center location and it looks doubtful it will be in the future. It is a shame.

That said, I am not into "dueling experts". To spend another $100,000 for the disputing side to ridicule or ignore is a waste of money. We already know who does and doesn't believe in the need. No report will change either's opinion. We just need to have a vote at the council and either do it or don't do it. Same with the rail system...if Shadid wants busses and the others want rail, let's just vote and get on with it as fast and as efficiently as possible. Quit wasting our time and money when it is doubtful that opinions will change and there will suddenly be surprising NEW information.

Rover, there are people who are very educated and professionally involved that oppose the convention center business. But I would add to what you said in that I'd question the notion that we hire consultants to provide information.

Most general citizens have no concept of either the benefits of convention centers or the requirements of such. CC or a CC hotel will never be "cool". We are now into only supporting "cool". Business and jobs aren't "cool" .... unless you don't have one. OKC isn't close to sniffing the top 50 as a convention center location and it looks doubtful it will be in the future. It is a shame.

That said, I am not into "dueling experts". To spend another $100,000 for the disputing side to ridicule or ignore is a waste of money. We already know who does and doesn't believe in the need. No report will change either's opinion. We just need to have a vote at the council and either do it or don't do it. Same with the rail system...if Shadid wants busses and the others want rail, let's just vote and get on with it as fast and as efficiently as possible. Quit wasting our time and money when it is doubtful that opinions will change and there will suddenly be surprising NEW information.

I don't know if you are talking about me but I have personally attended many conventions and have sponsored several booths in exhibit halls. The last one was a year ago for the National Main Streets Conference in Baltimore. And it did indeed have a very large and Hilton Hotel as part of the overall development. So I do not consider myself a "general citizen" having paid significantly to participate in such.

I'll write more about that Baltimore experience later.

My opinion about the need for a Convention Center Hotel was thrown into question by Larry Nichols (someone I also don't consider a "general citizen") stating that he thought the free market could resolve it. I started to think about my own opinion on this matter and it seems to me that OKC has two fundamental obstacles to people wanting to come here. Extreme weather (heat, cold, and wind) and the fact that we are not an airline hub with direct flights. I'm not sure that having a CC Hotel is going to make us extremely more attractive and competitive with the gluttony of other options available.

However... if we're a cool, hip, vibrant city it seems as though that might help us compete. Diversification in hotel stock and spreading around pedestrians seems like a great way to spur additional momentum.

Regarding the rail system, we already voted on that. And most of the people involved are going to do everything we can to make sure it's built.