OKC being christian or not has nothing to do with a secular nation, same as the nation has nothing to do with marriage. That is at the discretion of the next pope.

And if you are offended by mere comments, all I can say is your weak! Grow a spine, and get on with your life. Stop nagging at people b/c you were offended.

Oh, and I don't know you didn't debate my claim that OKC is less bigotted than other cities, b/c it is true.

Please pull your head out of your butt. Thank you.

And, coming from someone who just said DC is a fantastic metro to LIVE in, I may have to ask Patrick for your I.P. address so I can get you immediate psychiatric attention.

But don't tempt me. (not that I would waste my life, or not that I have any jurisdiction on this forum, LOL)

Way to go. Turning a good thread into flame war, and since we have so many on OKCT these days. That book would be a best seller. Or we can just watch you do it so well.

It is amazing that most of your accusations can come right back at Tulsa, yet seem falsiscious with OKC as the subjkect. Why don't you come on down here, spend some time here, explore the city, and then make your drollish accusations?

Gay bashing? No. We were very tolerant of that guy we had a month or so ago. Indian bashing? No. We support the tourist bucks from our Indian heritage, yet we despise the way they have taken advantage of our state.

Thanks, and good day.
The Grad.

No, I have never been to a bass pro store, I have no reason to go. I don’t want a boat or a fishing rod. I’ve only seen one Bass Pro store other than driving by the one in OKC on the highway. It was in Destin, Florida and I didn’t go in. I’m sure if I go looking I can find cowboy hats in Tulsa, that’s not the point. I’m sure if I go to the east side or Sapulpa or a country bar, or hell, a Wal-Mart, I can find plenty. I just don’t go to those places very often.

Cowboys do have the image of hicks nationally, if you think that is wrong you HAVEN’T been anywhere. Most people on the coasts have never been hunting, they don’t listen to country music and likely have never even been fishing. Most people live near the east and west coasts. So a Bass Pro is not going to have a lot for them. I don’t really agree with these perceptions, I’m not talking about my feelings, I know some very nice people that I would consider “cowboys”. These being real perceptions doesn’t make them true. I don’t agree with these. There are others I do agree with.

There are other things I see here on this forum that fit with the Oklahoma stereotype that the nation has, like gay bashing, liberal bashing, little racist comments against Native Americans here and there, crappy comments like only Christians can get married, and only reading the bible when polled on favorite books. These could stand some improvement, we as a state and you as a city need to be more accepting of other people than just straight white conservative evangelical Christians.

Trying to characterize a national perception in the manner that you are doing is just that -- your own perception. There are people in New York that try to emulate the "Cowboy Lifestyle" -- although, they have no clue that actually handling cattle is a tough job.

As for saying I haven't been anywhere, I've been to nearly all 50 states, most countries in Europe and most Canadian provinces :D You might say that I've been around :D

As for your last paragraph, that's an unfortunate truth not only about this forum, but about this state. Keep in mind that the racists and hatred filled fundamentalists are a strong force, but there are others here such as myself that take them to task on their ridiculous points of view. Also, as for the conservative comment, I resent that, there is nothing conservative about the misnamed "social conservatism" and "family values" -- those are two things that seek to allow the government to further interfere in our lives, expand, and take more control -- something that is anything BUT conservative.

And waitasec.. are you denying that Tulsa has country bars? If it did, would you be embarassed? I don't follow your line of reasoning. It seems you are bashing us, or rather a certain segment of our population without taking into account that Tulsa has the same segment of their population as well as similar facilities. You're bashing a city based on a nonrepresentative sample. Not only is it a misiniformed and silly practice, it's also quite snobbish and in bad taste. On one hand, you bash those that bash gays, on the other you make disparaging remarks about people that go to country bars... Tolerance should be universal ;)

OKC being christian or not has nothing to do with a secular nation, same as the nation has nothing to do with marriage. That is at the discretion of the next pope.

And if you are offended by mere comments, all I can say is your weak! Grow a spine, and get on with your life. Stop nagging at people b/c you were offended.

Oh, and I don't know you didn't debate my claim that OKC is less bigotted than other cities, b/c it is true.

Please pull your head out of your butt. Thank you.

And, coming from someone who just said DC is a fantastic metro to LIVE in, I may have to ask Patrick for your I.P. address so I can get you immediate psychiatric attention.

But don't tempt me. (not that I would waste my life, or not that I have any jurisdiction on this forum, LOL)

Way to go. Turning a good thread into flame war, and since we have so many on OKCT these days. That book would be a best seller. Or we can just watch you do it so well.

It is amazing that most of your accusations can come right back at Tulsa, yet seem falsiscious with OKC as the subjkect. Why don't you come on down here, spend some time here, explore the city, and then make your drollish accusations?

Gay bashing? No. We were very tolerant of that guy we had a month or so ago. Indian bashing? No. We support the tourist bucks from our Indian heritage, yet we despise the way they have taken advantage of our state.

Thanks, and good day.
The Grad.

You speak for yourself. Not "us".

Thank you.

People. I could care less where you have been. I have traveled around a little too. But who cares? What's next, people bragging about where they want to college!

And people please don't do that. I would hate to have to start bashing little colleges myself.

Everyone is equal. Howabout that?

And Midtowner, Your welcome.

People. I could care less where you have been. I have traveled around a little too. But who cares? What's next, people bragging about where they want to college!

And people please don't do that. I would hate to have to start bashing little colleges myself.

Everyone is equal. Howabout that?

And Midtowner, Your welcome.

For what? This isn't a tag team wrestling match. I'm not looking to "zing" swake or whatever. I didn't even think this thread was very worthy of discussion until someone (who has since exited stage left) brought up the word "hicks" -- a word that applies to many who attended the med fair in Norman, but not all of us :D

I simply think it's a bit of a case of the pot calling the kettle black, and the research and facts I have presented bear that out fairly well.

You said thank-you, so I said your welcome.

HEY SWAKE, IT IS NO LONGER CALLED THE NATIONAL COWBOY HALL OF FAME. IT IS NOW CALLED THE NATIONAL COWBOY & WESTERN HERITAGE MUSEUM.

The western heritage museum has a ton of inductees who were cowboy legends. Michael Douglas was in Oklahoma City not too long ago inducting a good friend into the hall of fame area of the museum. So tell me, what the hell else would they call it?

I know this for sure. There IS one thing I look forward to when my wife and I move to Texas this December, getting away from this OKC vs. Tulsa crap.

And look, if you don’t want to be seen as a hick city change the name of your best museum, the “Cowboy Hall of Fame”.


And before I get blasted, I didn’t say OKC was a hick city, but those two items really don’t help a city’s image with new visitors.

Actually, everyone I have spoken to who has been to Oklahoma City enjoyed their visit to the Western Heritage Museum, and was impressed. They enjoyed their visit. Those that have not been to Oklahoma City ask about the museum, but not in a negative manner.

As for the other hick thing, I can’t tell you the last time I saw a cowboy hat in Tulsa. I doubt I have in the last six months at least and I don’t even know what a “mo betta” shirt is. The most hick thing I see here are all the fools with "cowboy up" stickers on the back window of a pickup.

Half the people I know in Tulsa are cowboys, swake, or rednecks. Self-proclaimed, too. If they wouldn't mind, I'd give you their names and phone numbers.

I know this for sure. There IS one thing I look forward to when my wife and I move to Texas this December, getting away from this OKC vs. Tulsa crap.

The rivalry won't disappear in Houston...you'll just have the Houston vs. Dallas rivalry there! lol!

True, Patrick, but they Dallas and Houston are strangers, not home. It won't matter.

There is one thing Tulsa can't take from me... my passion and vision for Oklahoma City.

HEY SWAKE, IT IS NO LONGER CALLED THE NATIONAL COWBOY HALL OF FAME. IT IS NOW CALLED THE NATIONAL COWBOY & WESTERN HERITAGE MUSEUM.

The western heritage museum has a ton of inductees who were cowboy legends. Michael Douglas was in Oklahoma City not too long ago inducting a good friend into the hall of fame area of the museum. So tell me, what the hell else would they call it?

Something in the back of my mind said that was the name of it.. Just couldn't actually put my finger on whether or not they had changed it. Cowboy Hall of Fame is what I grew up with, perhaps that's why? They've gone under some pretty extensive rennovation in the last few years. Most notably, they added that new annex for large gatherings -- it's very nice and sports an amazing mural.

There's nothing to be ashamed of when it comes to the National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum. Recent additions have made it one of the larger western heritage museums in the country. The meeting hall isn't the only addition that was made on the campus. An entire new building was constructed on the west side of the complex which now houses most of the galleries. Much of the old museum is now used for the gift shop, foyer, kid's exhibit, and western town. It's amazing to think how tiny the museum used to be.

Amazing. Swake is trying to resort to making a city be ahsamed of having the National Cowboy Hall of Fame (I grew up knowing it as this also, and will call it this forever, LOL). We also have the National Softball Hall of Fame.

Where is Tulsa's Hall of Fame? Maybe we can help them get the National Snob Hall of Fame.

Wow, this sure went south huh?

Was it ever not south?

Page 1. Then came Swake.

Maybe we should just call it, the "National Western Heritage Museum." That way, it is more contemporary but still significantly indicates what the museum has to offer.

I dont see anything wrong with being more contemporary. OKC Museum of Art used to be called OKC Art Museum, but OKC MOA is much more urban contemporary (and classy).

Maybe National Western Heritage Museum works also. Hey, it would be one less thing to get picked on. :)

Now you are on the right track, you don't have to change the place, just the name and the perception will change

National Hall of Fame sounds prestigious. Sorry. We like it as it is. That, and we are proud of our Cowboy heritage, we are proud of our Indian heritage, and we are also proud of our Oil heritage.

Oklahoma City has oil heritage? When i think of oil and indinas i automaticly think of Tulsa.

Now you are on the right track, you don't have to change the place, just the name and the perception will change

I agree!!!

Continue the Renaissance!

OMG. What is wrong with Cowboy Hall of Fame?

People! *pulls hair* *prostrates self*

Now you are on the right track, you don't have to change the place, just the name and the perception will change

Swake! Our savior!

Oklahoma City has oil heritage? When i think of oil and indinas i automaticly think of Tulsa.

Penn Square Bank? Kerr McGee? The 1930's oil fields? The Edmond oil field? Koch? Halliburton? Any of these ring a bell?

Tulsa had oil companies, and so did Oklahoma City. Both still do, but not the magnitude and presence it once was. Tulsa still has Williams, Oneok to name a couple. Oklahoma City still has Devon and Chesapeake to name a couple. Oil built much of northwest OKC. Oil built Quail Springs Mall and gave Edmond the wealth it has today. Yeah, I'd say we have oil heritage as well.

OMG. What is wrong with Cowboy Hall of Fame?

People! *pulls hair* *prostrates self*

The term cowboy just makes us look like a bunch of redneck backward hicks! I personalyl would have to problem taking cowboy out of the name and simpyl calling it National Western Heritage Muesum INSTEAD OF National Cowboy and Western Heritage Museum.

And, thecains, you can keep your indians if you want. We'll shed that segment of our history to become a more modern city. You guys can continue on with the cowboy and indian culture if you wish! No argument here! lol! You can also keep your oil. Oil will soon be a thing of the past. Give it a few years. I'm glad to see OKC moving onto something else, and not dwelling on our past. Tulsa needs to quit dwelling on their past as the oil capitol, and admit they're not that any longer and they need to move on.

keep telling yourself that.

keep telling yourself that.

Keep telling hisself what? You are the one visiting another city's board, I'd say that gives you the burden of evidence when you make an attack. Please tell him why he is wrong. Simply stating that someone is wrong ain't gonna cut it.

OK. There is nothing wrong with Cowboys. Get over it, Tulsa.

Also, Pulse, what built OKC is the energy industry, which still puts us on the map.

BTW....i am from OKC................i am only taking up for Tulsa because every single person on this board wants to put Tulsa down and well i dont like it/

That's bull crap. Get over it.

BTW....i am from OKC................i am only taking up for Tulsa because every single person on this board wants to put Tulsa down and well i dont like it/

Taking up? All I have seen thus far are a few offhand negative remarks with very little fact associated with them. As far as putting Tulsa down, the worst I think that has been said is that some seem to have a "little brother" complex, which by the reaction of some Tulsa folks appears to be true :)

As for any facts, which so far have been apparently disregarded, I don't see a lot of difference between the people of the two cities, and besides topography and natural beauty, and maybe OKC's entertainment district, Tulsa's museums and parks, the cities are pretty similar in terms of demographics.

You know what... i always liked my little brother more than my big brother. BTW......Sorry if i made any of you mad.

There is more hate and incorrect facts spewing out of the Tulsa side of the debate than the OKC side. :surrender

thecains, I have not put down Tulsa on this board, and I respect your stance on this issue. You offer good insight to the rivalry debate. But please, do not put words in my mouth. My intent is not to put down Tulsa, but to at least influence people to build a bridge between the two cities.

Even Gov. Henry replied, when asked about the sibling rivalry after being elected, "Oklahoma City and Tulsa are just going to have to get over it."

Hear, hear! He usually says stupid things too!

You know what... i always liked my little brother more than my big brother. BTW......Sorry if i made any of you mad.

Not mad. Just puzzled.

I don't understand why you'd bash your hometown and its inhabitants without knowing what the heck you were talking about? That's not "defending", defending would be responding with thruths. You simply reply that 'x sucks' and 'y sucks'.

Do you see the difference between arguing and bashing now?

I do dearly hope so.

The avatars over there are really bad!!!

Oh, on Tulsa Now? I don't really like avatars. I think this one that I saved as a doc. is marginally decent (it is from SSC after all!) but I also think the ones over at Dallas Metrop are cool, but don't mistake me for an avatar kind of guy. LOL

The sites that let you upload your own are the best!! Come on Sooner, we all know you are a closet avatar guy!!

Not really. Remember my sorry-a** avatar on SSP?

You mean the awacs plane. OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!! Sorry, I had to take that swipe!! LOL!!!

No, the cowboy.

And, I don't feel like posting about Craptain AWACS right now.