Thunder,

You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.

This is getting out of hand...

Thunder,

You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.

Geez, what a moron!

or midfirst bank

Midfirst also makes sense in that: (1) their current buildings are apparently full; and (2) their current buildings sit right in the middle of the CHK campus. I would imagine AKM has his eyes on painting them black very soon.

Thunder,

You are telling people over on Skyscrapercity to contact Steve Lackmeyer about this new tower.....you should not do that.

Wow way to go Thunder. We are lucky Steve is nice enough to share a little information with us, unfortunately I think this action is going to blow it for us.

Looking forward to an official announcement.

This is getting out of hand...

It's sad that you are kind enough to share with us that you might know of a new skyscraper and it gets blown out of proportions to the point that people out of state/country are being told to contact you to find out about this unofficial building. I really feel for you to be put in this situation just because you are an extremely nice reporter/man.

what's sad is people are getting so worked up about a building(s) that may or may not happen. there are bigger things to worry about in life. Devon Tower is cool. But it has zero impact on my every day life.

Midfirst also makes sense in that: (1) their current buildings are apparently full; and (2) their current buildings sit right in the middle of the CHK campus. I would imagine AKM has his eyes on painting them black very soon.

***NOTE*** This is pure speculation. I am not drinking Thunder's Koolaid. ***NOTE***

If this supposed tower were to be announced, how come we're all guessing which one company is going to be the anchor tenant. Is there a reason why it can't be one-third American Fidelity (insert speculative company here), one-third Midfirst Bank (insert speculative company here), and one-third residential?

I would think that for any office building to get financing in today's climate they would have to have a sizable amount of space already pre-leased.

There seems to be a tremendous opportunity for a local company to build a large tower, occupy a decent portion and lease out the rest. Of have a developer do it for them.


Think about how many huge office developments there were in the 80's and 90's and now there are almost zero. We all know why: overbuilt markets and a bad economy. But there are still thousands of people that make their money as real estate developers and that are itching to get back into that business. OKC is one of the very few markets where that may be possible.

I have nothing to support this but I just have a gut feeling that it's going to be Midfirst.

Remember American Fidelity was reported to be taking a hard look at downtown a number of years ago and things have only improved for them and the CBD since. They certainly have not been investing in their current site as of late.

There have also been strong hints about a large new employer coming to town on the heels of the latest Boeing announcement.

Gotta thank the positive economy of OKC! Now, time to sit on this like a Buddha and wait in silence.

I thought about 4 - 7 years ago that American Fidelity sold their 3 building campus to a real estate holding firm back East ?

Anyone else remember this or was this just a dream I had......?

Remember American Fidelity was reported to be taking a hard look at downtown a number of years ago and things have only improved for them and the CBD since. They certainly have not been investing in their current site as of late.

There have also been strong hints about a large new employer coming to town on the heels of the latest Boeing announcement.

I am putting my money on Boeing, they are the only logical choice, they just moved 1,000 jobs here, and it has yet to be announced where they are going to house those jobs. Cathy O' Connor stated back in the Summer of 2011, that she would like to see Boeing have a downtown presence, and that we shouldn't rule that out. I think if AF wanted to move downtown they would have already. There is no way it could be Chesapeake, they are investing too much in their campus. Midfirst is too slow, I would think CHK would have bought them out already. My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....

In 1997 American Fidelity transferred all their real estate holdings to Eaton Enterprises but it wasn't a sale. The Eaton address is just a PO Box in OKC.

Probably just a shift for tax purposes.

I am putting my money on Boeing, they are the only logical choice, they just moved 1,000 jobs here, and it has yet to be announced where they are going to house those jobs. Cathy O' Connor stated back in the Summer of 2011, that she would like to see Boeing have a downtown presence, and that we shouldn't rule that out. I think if AF wanted to move downtown they would have already. There is no way it could be Chesapeake, they are investing too much in their campus. Midfirst is too slow, I would think CHK would have bought them out already. My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....

boeing won't be building any thing in okc ... they don't own by tinker they lease ...

they might be a tenent .. but they are not going to do the building

My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....

I could see this happen too. If you look at their expansion plans, in 4 or 5 years they would be more than 'busting at the seams'. They could be in the same boat Devon was floating in and they do have the capitol to build new.

My guess is some corporation from the energy industry.

OKC had virtually NO vertical development since the mid 80's and as soon as we found out about Devon we went into skyscraper hysteria and now we want more.Devon came at us with 925ft' and I bet all of us would have been happy with 600'ft and now we are kinda spoiled by Devon and want more,Imagine what the OKC skyline will look like when we really start to boom.I can't wait!

Boeing is making a lot of moves right now, moving jobs all over the country, and they are about to construct a new regional headquarters in Crystal City, VA.
http://www.arlnow.com/2011/10/19/board-stays-up-late-to-approve-new-boeing-hq/

"The Boeing complex, which the company will own instead of lease, won’t provide the kind of active streetscape befitting a property so close to a multi-million dollar county park and recreation center, opponents said. Instead, the property will be largely closed off to the public; buildings will be set back from the sidewalk with no ground floor retail and no public-use parking spaces (which could have been utilized during special events at the park). Transportation Commission Chair Bill Gearhart called the complex, which will have 555 underground parking spaces, “auto-oriented” as opposed to transit-oriented. The Planning Commission called the architecture of the proposed buildings “mediocre.”

I still draw the parallel to Charlotte, where after the 871 foot BofA Tower was built in 1992, they have built six towers over 420 feet, including three over 650.

Before that, their tallest building was 588 feet; very similar to our Chase Tower at 500 feet.

I am putting my money on Boeing, they are the only logical choice, they just moved 1,000 jobs here, and it has yet to be announced where they are going to house those jobs. Cathy O' Connor stated back in the Summer of 2011, that she would like to see Boeing have a downtown presence, and that we shouldn't rule that out. I think if AF wanted to move downtown they would have already. There is no way it could be Chesapeake, they are investing too much in their campus. Midfirst is too slow, I would think CHK would have bought them out already. My dark horse for my speculation is Continental Resources though....

Why would Boeing want or need a downtown presence, when most/all their work here will be at Tinker? Most of the jobs they're moving here are from production facilities in Long Beach and Wichita, not the kind of jobs that would fit in a downtown skyskraper.

We are already in a "boom" if we build CC Hotel, Mystery Skyscraper, and Sandridge Tower, that would be 4 significant high-rises/skyscrapers constructed in 5 years, if that's not a boom, then I don't know what is.

What would be really neat is if they all get started around the same time, and then we can foster the nickname Crane City!

Okay, I am not the expert (by any stretch) so for some of you, the very idea may not seem logical but I want to toss it out there as I was giving it some thought last night.

Is there any reason that the new CC hotel could not be a part of the new "mystery tower"? Similar to the new Wilshire Grand I tower being built in LA. Perhaps even a P3 that is even more similar to the Wilshire Grand Development in that it has more than one tower on the property, one of them being the CC hotel.

This is a good point. It's possible the developer/company, whoever it is, would take advantage of the need for a CC hotel and build it themselves along with whatever space they need for their company.

It's an interesting thought, but every indication I'm getting says the CC hotel will be completely separate from the new tower, both structurally and ownership-wise. But, again, who knows; it's a logical and practical idea.

I will go with MidFirst Bank, it is the most logical.

Any chance that CHK would want to purchase their existing headquarters?

It's been assumed that CHK would want the current MidFirst buildings because they own everything around them and sorely need office space -- so much so they've recently purchased four buildings miles from their campus.


MidFirst is very, very conservative though. But they are a logical candidate.

Midfirst is very conservative, but the way that CHK throws around money it could make it an easier decision to sell and build new.

Banks got hit the hardest during the recession, and are just now trying to regroup. I don't think MidFirst has the disposable income to spend on a new skyscraper. They are not that large of a bank outside of Oklahoma and Arizona. Now if it was a major bank like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, then I would be thinking differently. That is why MidFirst is not the top of my list, they don't even have a Wikipedia for crying out loud!

I will go with MidFirst Bank, it is the most logical.

Any chance that CHK would want to purchase their existing headquarters?

My guess is Midfirst also. When I worked at Midland Mortgage (office complex next to Midfirst) we were continually running out of space and sent people to other offices on Portland Ave. I think it would be great to consolidate both operations (baking/financing) under 1 roof.

MidFirst used to have all their operations in what is now the Dowell Center up through the 80's.

I don't think they owned that building, though.

Banks got hit the hardest during the recession, and are just now trying to regroup. I don't think MidFirst has the disposable income to spend on a new skyscraper. They are not that large of a bank outside of Oklahoma and Arizona. Now if it was a major bank like JP Morgan Chase, Bank of America, Wells Fargo, then I would be thinking differently. That is why MidFirst is not the top of my list, they don't even have a Wikipedia for crying out loud!

I vaguely remember reading that MidFirst actually did well during the recession given their conservative investment strategy. Anyone else recall that?

Either way, I don't think MidFirst is hurting and I know they're expanding relatively rapidly, thus making a new HQ downtown a logical guess.

Not to mention their CEO, Jeff Records, is a part owner of the Thunder with strong ties to the downtown community.

I vaguely remember reading that MidFirst actually did well during the recession given their conservative investment strategy. Anyone else recall that?

Either way, I don't think MidFirst is hurting and I know they're expanding relatively rapidly, thus making a new HQ downtown a logical guess.

I remember pretty good bonuses during the recession.
When I drove by the the Midfirst complex at night the other day and saw the lit up cranes at CHK in the background I couldn't help but think Midfirst won't be there much longer...

I vaguely remember reading that MidFirst actually did well during the recession given their conservative investment strategy. Anyone else recall that?

Yes, I remember reading that too. They actually weathered the recession rather well, and have been experiencing growth. Again I don't think Midfirst builds new unless CHK purchases their existing building, which is almost inevitable. CHK could buy their building, the way that CHK buys properties and that is by making them an offer they can't refuse. If that were to happen Midfirst could easily build downtown and also make a huge statement of being a "Big League Bank", the official bank of the 2012 NBA World Champions the Okc Thunder.

well what I know about the future skyline is when the CC hotel gets built along with the other tower/s that will double our skyline (from view E/W ),assuming they are south of the new blvd.Doubling our downtown is what was described for 1 of the reasons to relocate I-40.For quick easy ref. look at the OKCTALK banner and imagine 2 buildings left of the Devon Tower.Thinking from that point instead of height makes you get excited if you like shooting pics or vids of skylines because thats what I got out of the "amazing " feeling that was posted.

Wasn't Midfirst waiting until the Devon tower was finished? My guess it would be taller then Devon...?

I speculated this awhile back after talking to a friend about OG&E and Enogex. Enogex is moving its offices from their current location at Lincoln and I44 - I know specifically of offices going into Leadership Square, not sure about any others or the size of the move. OG&E already had offices in LS, so I have to add them into the list of possibilities.

A side note... the above 10+ pages - help me Jesus. I keep a pretty good daily count on the updates and it was on page 4 last I read this thread. Sometimes silence is golden.

A side note... the above 10+ pages - help me Jesus. I keep a pretty good daily count on the updates and it was on page 4 last I read this thread. Sometimes silence is golden.

The thread was merged together earlier today, it was at 7 pages when it was merged so we'd be at either the end of page 7 or beginning of page 8.

If that were to happen Midfirst could easily build downtown and also make a huge statement of being a "Big League Bank", the official bank of the 2012 NBA World Champions the Okc Thunder.I like how you think!

I think it would be great to consolidate both operations (baking/financing) under 1 roof.

What a great buisiness plan, I would call it muffins and mortgages!

Sorry, had to.

There is almost zero chance construction on an office tower of that size will be done on a spec basis.[/URL]

So you're guessing then. That's what I figured.

http://newsok.com/devon-energys-move-casts-shadow-on-office-investment-in-downtown-oklahoma-city/article/3641165

OKC's DT office market still has excess capacity, not as much as before but excess as evidenced by the above article. Unless a major corporate relocation occurs, I do not forsee a substantial new high rise build (start) this year. Maybe Sandridge or Continental builds a mid rise in the next 5 years.

OKC's DT office market still has excess capacity, not as much as before but excess as evidenced by the above article. Unless a major corporate relocation occurs, I do not forsee a substantial new high rise build this year. Maybe Sandridge or Continental builds a mid rise in the next 5 years.

That may be, but a large chuck of what Devon is vacating is Class C office space (First National Center). Continental Resources grabbed Mid-America Tower, so it looks like our only concern is Chase Tower and Oklahoma Tower. Both properties are Class A and don't have problems filling space.

I am still a big believer in not marketing Class C space. And the bulk of Class C space is found in First National Center and City Place. No modern, 21st Century company would ever occupy Class C space. Why we even count it in our real estate inventory is beyond me by leaps and bounds.

The rumors are circulating around a substantial high-rise being announced this year, not being built this year. But I will say, no confirmation has been given to whether these rumors are true. Yet various sources, both reliable and unreliable, seem to be on the same page. Either a local company is about to make a major real estate move, or an out-of-state relocation announcement is on the horizon.

Either way, the Oklahoma City trend is growth in owner-occupied space versus multi-tenant leased space. They are both different animals.

That may be, but a large chuck of what Devon is vacating is Class C office space (First National Center). Continental Resources grabbed Mid-America Tower, so it looks like our only concern is Chase Tower and Oklahoma Tower. Both properties are Class A and don't have problems filling space.

I am still a big believer in not marketing Class C space. And the bulk of Class C space is found in First National Center and City Place. No modern, 21st Century company would ever occupy Class C space. Why we even count it in our real estate inventory is beyond me by leaps and bounds.

The rumors are circulating around a substantial high-rise being announced this year, not being built this year. But I will say, no confirmation has been given to whether these rumors are true. Yet various sources, both reliable and unreliable, seem to be on the same page. Either a local company is about to make a major real estate move, or an out-of-state relocation announcement is on the horizon.

Either way, the Oklahoma City trend is growth in owner-occupied space versus multi-tenant leased space. They are both different animals.

+1

Yes, at this point I don't even count First National as vacancy and of course Devon's old building is already spoken for.

That leaves decent chunks in both Chase and Oklahoma Towers but I bet all that space will fill pretty easily over the next couple of years. It's still very reasonable compared to new construction or other downtowns around the country.

If a new building was announced today, all that space would likely be absorbed long before it was even open for business. And besides, it's likely employers like Sandridge and Continental will need to lease space even if they decide to build their own buildings, at least in the shorter term.

Yes, at this point I don't even count First National as vacancy and of course Devon's old building is already spoken for.

That leaves decent chunks in both Chase and Oklahoma Towers but I bet all that space will fill pretty easily over the next couple of years. It's still very reasonable compared to new construction or other downtowns around the country.

If a new building was announced today, all that space would likely be absorbed long before it was even open for business. And besides, it's likely employers like Sandridge and Continental will need to lease space even if they decide to build their own buildings, at least in the shorter term.

Moreover, the article stated that of the 800,000 or so sqft that will be vacated, 200,000 of it is pretty much spoken for. But they didn't mention who will lease it. So that leaves about 600,000 sqft for space, but a portion of that is Class B/C, so its really not that bad.

Devon also currently has space in Corporate Tower that will be vacated with the move.

I think this is very exciting about getting new buildings in downtown. So except for the new future sandridge and the future building steve talked about. What other buildings are being built in okc or might be built soon?

The CC Hotel, Sandridge Tower, and Mystery Skyscraper more than likely will happen and start construction before 2015. Besides that, I could see coupe high-rise hotels thrown in the mix, and possibly a high-rise condo to support the new high-paying employees that will be working downtown.

I know im asking a stupid question, but I have no clue about a CC Hotel? how tall is this going to be and what does CC stand for?

Jesseda,

If I understand correctly, there are no buildings that are currently "in the works". By "in the works" I mean to say that there are no buildings for which we have renderings, financial figures, and substantive plans and dates to move forward with (like what Devon released in Spring 2008). That's not to say that nobody is planning anything. There could be 10 buildings being planned by various companies, but nobody has come out and said "We are going to spend $X to build a structure Y feet tall, and it will be completed by Z date." Until that happens, I think we would do well to not assume that there are buildings going to be built, even if it is likely for that to come to fruition (Sandridge being the best example).

I know im asking a stupid question, but I have no clue about a CC Hotel? how tall is this going to be and what does CC stand for?

CC stands for Convention Center.. There are no height or location details yet but according to the Chamber study it will need at least 600 rooms and around 50,000 sq feet of meeting space. If they got 20 rooms per floor then it would by 30 floors of rooms, plus a lobby, plus a meeting level, plus a mechanical level, plus a food service level. So all in all - maybe 34 to 35 stories if it is 600 rooms. Each 100 rooms in addition would add 5 floors so 800 rooms would top out at 45 stories. Since it is a hotel with lower ceiling heights it would come in somewhere between Sandridge and Chase.

Jesseda,

If I understand correctly, there are no buildings that are currently "in the works". By "in the works" I mean to say that there are no buildings for which we have renderings, financial figures, and substantive plans and dates to move forward with (like what Devon released in Spring 2008). That's not to say that nobody is planning anything. There could be 10 buildings being planned by various companies, but nobody has come out and said "We are going to spend $X to build a structure Y feet tall, and it will be completed by Z date." Until that happens, I think we would do well to not assume that there are buildings going to be built, even if it is likely for that to come to fruition (Sandridge being the best example).

sandridge has already said they are bulding a new tower in the near future

and their will be a CC hotel .....

sandridge has already said they are bulding a new tower in the near future

and their will be a CC hotel .....

Right and I believe Sandridge and others have those intentions. However, they have no public plans to do so. There's no harm in waiting to see renderings and figures and estimated dates to say buildings are in the works.

hey guys I did not want to post a conversation I had with a worker at the devon site in coney island because I know you guys are very serious and I didn't wanna get laughed out of OKCTALK but since others are coming forward here it goes.


WARNING THIS INFORMATION HAS A LOW GRADE OF CREDITABLITY........


I was downtown 2 months ago and went to coney island for some chili dogs it was a busy lunch crowd as usual .I was in line with some devon workers he said he loved the hotdogs..i said too bad the tower is almost finished you want have a reason to be downtown that often anymore if at all. he said not really because there are more towers(more than 2) to be built in OKC matter of fact in the next 3-5 years the chase will be the third tallest building in OKC and devon will be the second.....so maybe a supertall ?

WARNING THIS INFORMATION HAS A LOW GRADE OF CREDITABLITY........



It seems like everyone has a poor credit rating these days. Ba boom.

Not gonna laugh at you... love the screenname BTW. Will wait for confirmation...

Will wait for confirmation...

Awesome! Keep us updated on how that's going! BA boom! ;)

Too many rumors going around to say nothing is in the works. Depending on who is building the skyscraper will determine how soon we will know. For example, Chesapeake is real quiet about announcing their developments, with that being said, if Chesapeake just so happens to build a skyscraper downtown, we probably wouldn't know until they are actually breaking ground.

I just don't understand why people think Chesapeake would build a large downtoown offic building. They have spent a fortune on their campus and built a shopping center that caters to their employees. What would they do with all that suburban space if they moved?