Steve, I've copied articles from that era onto Word and will email them to you. I think it's some good reading. Meanwhile, here's some quick info about that tower:

From Sunday Dec. 6, 1981 (front page of the biz section, I think)...

"....A third office building downtown is scheduled to be built, starting early in 1982. Don Kaspereit, president of Development Planning Inc., said the 21-story Oklahoma Commerce Tower at North Harvey and Kerr will be completed and ready for occupancy in 1983.

Kaspereit bought the former Security Federal Savings & Loan Association building from Sooner Federal Savings & Loan Association for approximately $800,000 earlier this year.

The present building on the 87 1/2- by 100-foot tract will be demolished, he said."....

Photo is about the best I can do....

http://i724.photobucket.com/albums/ww242/luckynedpepper/OklahomaCommerceTower.jpg

Interesting....

That must have been for the NW corner of Harvey & Kerr:

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2730/R010016624001rA.jpg

I remember that as far as they got was to strip the furnishings and fixtures from this building. My neighbor's son was one of 3 partners with Don Kaspereit.

Looks like it. The garage behind the skyscraper is still there, if you do a StreetView. (http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ll=35.46988,-97.518111&spn=0.001755,0.002846&sll=35.482173,-97.5146&sspn=0.001829,0.002846&vpsrc=6&t=h&z=19&layer=c&cbll=35.469872,-97.517837&panoid=K2u_lzInEtEbi1awWIrSnQ&cbp=12,307.76,,0,-1.27)

Yes, it is the nw/c of Kerr and Harvey (a small note: location was mentioned in my first post about the proposal).

Does anyone know how tall Leadership Square was originally planned to be? I've never seen an official height although I do remember reading it was suppose to be 60-stories.

Does anyone know how tall Leadership Square was originally planned to be? I've never seen an official height although I do remember reading it was suppose to be 60-stories.

I too have seen someone from Oklahoma City who has posted on various forums about LS originally supposed to be taller than it is today. I don't remember anything from that time (announcments, news articles, renderings, models), and I followed its construction, that ever indicated the building was reduced in size. I could be wrong, but I think that person has been misinformed, and the building in place today is what was originally planned.

I think Del is absolutely right.

There was at least one other competing proposal but it was not taller than LS.

Sounds like someone was day dreaming while they wrote the article Del and I read that in.

I too have seen someone from Oklahoma City who has posted on various forums about LS originally supposed to be taller than it is today. I don't remember anything from that time (announcments, news articles, renderings, models), and I followed its construction, that ever indicated the building was reduced in size. I could be wrong, but I think that person has been misinformed, and the building in place today is what was originally planned.
^^That poster on other forums You speak of is probably Me,I have heard this rumor on this forum before and from others.I have never seen old clippings or seen any links to proove it,so I think You and Pete are right!

There was a proposed 50-story tower as part of the Galleria complex -- would have been built where the Norrick Library currently sits.

But that was just a concept by Vincent Carrozza who built the first two Galleria Towers, now called Corporate and Oklahoma Towers.

It was talked about the same time Leadership Square was built, so that may be part of the confusion.

^^Thats more likely!

Maybe the buildings as they are constructed were not meant to be higher, but I thought I'd read on here that Leadership Square was originally intended to be one building, not north and south.

Add together the two sections and that would be what? 40 stories? not 60+ though.

On wiki it says it LS was supposed to be 60+ stories.

I have seen rendering of the proposed taller LS and it was originally planned to be a single tower in the 50 story range.

OK,now I know I'm not crazy!

From Wiki: Leadership Square was originally intended to be a single 60+ floor skyscraper but was later scaled down to two connected towers due to economic downturn.http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=leadership%20square%20oklahoma%20city%20original %2060%20story%20proposal&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FNeighbo rhoods_of_Oklahoma_City&ei=YCHkTsqJCsSpsQK_qoX_BQ&usg=AFQjCNGs1qDgoKUNsu_VnYE9aylphQfFqw

There is lots of wrong information in that wiki entry and they don't cite many sources.

^^I know Wiki isnt the best place to find correct facts,I have seen other sources that say the same though.I am going to do some searching!

"At more than 60 stories, Leadership Square promised what would have been the Sooner State’s tallest building"

From the Journal Record, 2008

http://www.jigsaw.com/3401047/These_Walls:_Warren_Place_in_Tulsa_company_news_vi ew.xhtml

Yeah, I know those things are out there, but I still don't buy it. I'd need to see an article or announcement from that time (late 70's, early 80's) indicating the new building was going to be constructed differently than what it was. In researching the real estate archieves and OCURA records of the day, I still haven't found one. The story could be true, but Wiki articles and news bits from the last couple of years that don't cite the reasons for such statements, aren't really convincing.

Pete, you're right - I remember looking at the model for the proposed 50-ish story building to be built at the library site. It was to be a part of the Galleria office complex (building 3), developed by Dallas developer Vincent Carroza and designed by New York architect Philip Johnson (sp).

The first photo shows the proposed 50-story Galleria tower (just below Carrozza's name tag).

The second was a competing proposal for Leadership Square.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/galleriaplan2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/diamondcenter.jpg

Also, I scoured the Oklahoman archives and am 99.9% sure the original Leadership Square proposal was exactly what was built, except they added the atrium very soon after receiving approval.

It was one of four competing proposals and was the tallest of the bunch.


Additionally, the Journal Record blurb says it was the fall of Penn Square Bank that caused MetLife to reduce Leadership Square in scope. But I saw an article in 1981 that outlined exactly what ended up being built and PSB didn't fail until July 1982.


I think this is a case of rumors being cited so many times others are taking it as fact. I'm quite sure between Del, Doug, me & Steve we would have remembered a 60-story office tower proposal.

old Oklahoma tower rendering!http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a49/DougLoudenback/literature/okc2nd_p62s.jpg

No, that's Corporate Tower on the left and Oklahoma Tower on the right.

The rendering is looking from the northeast with the Robinson Renaissance building removed. Carrozza was lobbying to have it demolished to create an entrance to the proposed Galleria mall.

^^That tower looks almost exactly like the OK tower!

No, that's Corporate Tower on the left and Oklahoma Tower on the right.

The rendering is looking from the northeast with the Robinson Renaissance building removed. Carrozza was lobbying to have it demolished to create an entrance to the proposed Galleria mall.

^^Gothcha',maybe if I researched Dougs blog or read Steve's book I would know these things!

It also helps to be older and have experienced all this first hand.

A number of us were directly involved in all this stuff so we have a pretty good framework to start with, and that makes it easy to fill in any gaps (or reinforce assumptions) through the Internet and writings.


That's not to say that I am always right but I've kept on top of OKC development for almost 40 years. If there is something I missed or that I'm wrong about, I love to be corrected so I get the right information.

I'm glad that competing proposal to Leadership wasnt chosen.That is just ugly!

I'm glad that competing proposal to Leadership wasnt chosen.That is just ugly!

I was just about the say the same. Dodged that one...

Here's another one of the proposals:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/couchproposal.jpg

I think it's safe to say LS came out pretty nice compared to some of the proposals.

What about Rand Elliot's design of the Turbinomic tower, isn't that a possibility?

I know it's just a concept, but i see potential in this building
http://www.arthitectural.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1.jpg

Also, I scoured the Oklahoman archives and am 99.9% sure the original Leadership Square proposal was exactly what was built, except they added the atrium very soon after receiving approval.

That's not what it says in Lackmeyer's "Second Time Around" book, which corroborates Leadership Square originally being 60 stories tall. That's also what I've always heard personally.

I know it's just a concept, but i see potential in this building
http://www.arthitectural.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/1.jpg

That exact site is where the downtown elementary is going to go, FYI.

Regardless, I personally do not care for that rendering, just at first glance.

I am pretty sure the era of 'super block' is over.

Well, it is, just not here in OKC...

That exact site is where the downtown elementary is going to go, FYI.

Regardless, I personally do no care for that rendering, just at first glance.

Would look great on top of a 100ft Christmas Tree.

I actually personally think it looks horrible in that location, but i do think it's a very unique building...even though rand elliot desgined it and he can weird...lol

Meh...Dubai knockoff.

I actually personally think it looks horrible in that location, but i do think it's a very unique building...even though rand elliot desgined it and he can weird...lol

Yeah, I've always wavered back and forth on Rand. Lately I've been losing respect for him...

I know it's just a concept, but i see potential in this building


While it is a building at the core, most of what you see is a wind turbine. Here are a lot more pictures of it and a write-up on it. It is 795 feet tall.

http://www.arthitectural.com/elliott-associates-architects-turbinomics/

http://www.arthitectural.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/8-640x577.jpg

Where and when will this be built? I was thinking somewhere near the Skydance bridge.

Where and when will this be built? I was thinking somewhere near the Skydance bridge.

It won't be built. It was an entry in a contest.

It won't be built. It was an entry in a contest.

I'm guessing it didn't win...

It won't be built. It was an entry in a contest.

What contest? Sorry, this is the first I've seen of it.

What was the contest and what did win?

OKC need to stop bringing us proposals and renderings only to not actually do anything with them!!! Skydance for example is a MIRACLE!!! Its so frustrating to see how OKC are destructing itself (the leaders, the executives, whoever the important people are). We've lost this strange structure, we may have lost the oil derrick structure, and many other things. The Ferris Wheel is still hidden away in storage.

HUGE LOVE TO DEVON for moving OKC forward. I just hope what DEVON did will be enough to boom OKC into serious skyscraper capitol of the nation. Love the Skydance bridge. New I-40. Sure, we have progress, but only a few are progress while we still have many more that just go dead. :-(

I know, time flies. I gotta wait 10 years....maybe 20 years....to hopefully see at least 5 skyscrapers in construction at the same time. I want people to start picking OKC. Not Dallas. Not the weird DFW wording. Not anywhere else. Just pick OKC. Its all I ask.

What about mixed used buildings on the new boulevard downtown? Is that a project in progress or is it just a concept?

What about mixed used buildings on the new boulevard downtown? Is that a project in progress or is it just a concept?

It's just a concept at this point. Nothing concrete has been proposed.

Lookie, I found a picture. :-P

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7zklk8ON1x4/Tk8vWU2VoOI/AAAAAAAADT0/OQ6U_1jZDRk/s1600/IMG_0430.JPG

http://newsok.com/2012-profiles-oklahoma-citys-skyline-will-continue-to-change-with-new-hotel-apartments/article/3640531?custom_click=pod_headline_national-finance-news

Great summary by Steve.

Some things not mentioned: The completion of the CHK Arena expansion, the renovation of the Braniff Building, tenants in the Dowell Center and the new boulevard.

Of course, LEVEL will be completed in 2012 as will the Aloft hotel. The Packard/Guardian project should be wrapped up as well as 1212 N Walker along with several other smaller projects in Midtown.

Projects likely to commence in 2012: House of Bedlam in Bricktown, Pitman hotel project in Bricktown, Bradshaw apartments in Deep Deuce, The Edge in Midtown, the SandRidge amenities building, the downtown elementary school and I'm sure some others not already announced.

I do not think the Aloft hotel will be done this year

Another big finish for 2012 is the Colcord...

Extensive and expensive renovations for a brand new lobby restaurant with adjoining patio and park plus a 3-story addition containing meeting rooms that will link it to the Devon Tower.

Also hope the cafe in the Myriad Gardens will find a solid operator.

The Hart Building conversion in Film Row will really bring that area along (lots of office space with some retail) and good progress should be made on the Tower Theater, as the 23rd street corridor starts to hit it's stride.

Great summary by Steve.

Some things not mentioned: The completion of the CHK Arena expansion, the renovation of the Braniff Building, tenants in the Dowell Center and the new boulevard.

Of course, LEVEL will be completed in 2012 as will the Aloft hotel. The Packard/Guardian project should be wrapped up as well as 1212 N Walker along with several other smaller projects in Midtown.

Projects likely to commence in 2012: House of Bedlam in Bricktown, Pitman hotel project in Bricktown, Bradshaw apartments in Deep Deuce, The Edge in Midtown, the SandRidge amenities building, the downtown elementary school and I'm sure some others not already announced.

Yeah, I'll be honest with you: this was a deal requested mid-week by local desk when I was already pretty busy working on the MidTown situation. Obviously I could have added a lot more into this - including likely outcome to be learned with Stage Center, design of the new police and city court buildings, etc. It's definitely going to be one of those transition years akin to 1999, 2002 and 2006. Seems like we're hitting these benchmark years about every four to five years.

Steve, I certainly didn't mean my comments as any sort of criticism. I have tremendous respect for what you do and the volume of quality work you put forth.

I'm still struggling to write one silly little blog post about Project 180!


Just meant to supplement what you wrote.

No, no, I know this. It's just that I'm being critical of it. It's not really my best work - it could have been a lot more exhaustive. And if I had thought it through, I probably would have added in this little nugget: evidence is building that there will be another "skyscraper" added to the skyline.

^^Taller than Chase but shorter than Devon,right?My next door neighbor is crane operator from Texas,He was told to be on standby if He wanted the work.I hope He is correct,but We'll see!