I checked Guestroom out yesterday. It'll be a cool little operation once they really get up and running. The guys said they'd have a section devoted to ACM@UCO offerings put together in the next couple weeks, which was what I was looking for.

Also, I checked out Red Dirt Emporium while I was there and I never realized how much great stuff they had. I'll definitely be back there for some Christmas shopping.
Yeah, they'll be the first to tell you that they hurried to get open and will still be spending the next few weeks (or months) making it as homey and lived-in as the other stores. That was exactly my experience when opening our stores.

Also, thanks for the kind words about Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium (http://www.reddirtemporium.com). We'd love to see you during the holidays, for sure. Hopefully you also made it across the hall to check out the Bricktown Marketplace (http://www.bricktownmarketplace.com) while you were there.

This property was on the market for several years, so why didn't at least "one of the potential developers" purchase said property. Like I stated earlier, it may not be the preferred choice, but IMHO, it's better than having the land set vacant for the next 20 years.

Who's to say it would have sat empty for the next 20 years? This property has CHANGED hands over several years and has saw numerous proposals, some that fell through, some that never made it to reality, some that only wanted it to stay as a lot. I really don't think that's justification enough to develop the space into a 3/4ths parking lot just because the proposals the lot saw never came to fruition. If that is the case, then all of downtown should be parking lots and empty lots. Oh wait...

rcjunkie, read my previous post.

CNBC has a good article in correlation with Bricktown.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44929808/

CNBC has a good article in correlation with Bricktown.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/44929808/

Seems as though I saw that exact same post in another thread. LOL

Seems as though I saw that exact same post in another thread. LOL

Hmmm...I believe you are correct ljbab. LOL

Chris Johnson had said that he was ready to start immediately after he got approval from BUDC, and that he wanted to have this open by summer of this year.

Anyone know anything new?

Haven't seen a building permit, so no way he's open by this summer.

Thanks, Pete.

Well it's hard to say there is no way he's open by this summer, considering this development will probably require a week to construct.

Well it's hard to say there is no way he's open by this summer, considering this development will probably require a week to construct.

Well it won't take long to spread a little gravel for the parking lot anyway.

Building permit today for this project.

Should see earth moving there soon.

Building permit today for this project.

Should see earth moving there soon.

Well, at least some more grass bites the dust. The bad thing with having so much open space is that we are going to have to put up with a lot of crappy projects until we run out of space.

Well, at least some more grass bites the dust. The bad thing with having so much open space is that we are going to have to put up with a lot of crappy projects until we run out of space.

I do not see that day coming any time soon.

Construction set to start on House of Bedlam in Bricktown (http://newsok.com/construction-set-to-start-on-house-of-bedlam-in-bricktown/article/3644803#ixzz1l0bKCbYe)

BY STEVE LACKMEYER slackmeyer@opubco.com
Published: January 31, 2012

Construction is set to begin next month on the House of Bedlam development in Bricktown. The project by USA Screenprinting owner Chris Johnson, is set to include a cafe, gift shop, 30,000 square feet of retail space and street-level parking on both sides of the Bricktown Canal.

I wish I could be happy about this project in this location. Perhaps ... someday.

it will be interesting to see how this turns out ...

i am at least a little bit of the thought that something is better than nothing ....

i know this is not the ideal project ... but it doesn't take much to improve upon 2 empty grass lots

...it doesn't take much to improve upon 2 empty grass lots

And yet the task wasn't accomplished. I have difficulty thinking of a worse place to add parking in BT, and that's coming from somehow who still hasn't quite gotten over the idiocy of installing parking along so much of the southern leg of the canal. As bad as the huge lot south of Bass Pro continues to be, this t shirt coffee haus excuse for plopping in a parking lot is worse in my opinion. Others see it differently, and it was his property to decide how to use. Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

Yep and I am certainly not sending any of my t-shirt business to USA screen printing anymore. Not that it matters to him. It's just one account, but I just can't support this junk in any way.

Yep and I am certainly not sending any of my t-shirt business to USA screen printing anymore. Not that it matters to him. It's just one account, but I just can't support this junk in any way.

If all of us took this approach/attitude, and refused to do business with any company we disagreed with on any said item, where would we shop ?

If all of us took this approach/attitude, and refused to do business with any company we disagreed with on any said item, where would we shop ?

I don't disagree with very many businesses so there would be plenty of places to shop.

I don't disagree with very many businesses so there would be plenty of places to shop.

How do you know ?, are you aware of all their practices, policies and investments, doubtful

How do you know ?, are you aware of all their practices, policies and investments, doubtful

In order to be prudent, we simply make the best decisions we can with the information we have. In this case, I am aware of a business that is not serving our community in a way that I desire. So, I will choose not to do business with them. There are many businesses with which I don't have a relationship based on their business practices or policies of which I am aware. Believe it or not, I still get by. Of course I can not verify the business practices and policies of every business I would with, but I can still make decisions based on the information that I do have.


If all of us took this approach/attitude, and refused to do business with any company we disagreed with on any said item, where would we shop ?

We would shop at a lot more community minded establishments.

If all of us took this approach/attitude, and refused to do business with any company we disagreed with on any said item, where would we shop ?

At places where the shopper agrees with what they know of the owner's policies. I do this all the time - I've stopped shopping at many places after I've found out certain things I don't agree with and I almost always find an equivalent place to shop. It's called a conscience.

It's so crazy to me to see all these debbie downer posts about this particular project.
Guess what? Its a prime piece of real estate that has sat vacant for YEARS.
The free market economy has not warranted any improvements to the property until NOW (all others fell through).
We have an individual willing to put his money where his mouth is and develop this space!
In my personal opinion its not exactly what I would like to see for that space, but why in the world would anyone rather that area stay grass than have millions of dollars spent to improve it?
People should probably learn to manage their expectations..

Or maybe you should manage your expectations of other people's opinions...

I don't personally "like" this project, but I'm excited to see something different come up along the canal. I think there's nothing wrong though with having hoped something more could have came out of the site. In a realistic world, there very well could have been an 8-story hotel or whathaveyou on this site, it just didn't happen that way.

In my personal opinion its not exactly what I would like to see for that space, but why in the world would anyone rather that area stay grass than have millions of dollars spent to improve it?

Developments can often have a downward pull on an area and hinder its improvement for years to come. Sometimes it is better to have nothing. Seriously. You could have put an Arby's there and I don't think anyone would be thinking "I'm so glad this is finally getting developed. Now Bricktown will really begin to fill up!". IMO, this development only continues the philosophy that has made Bricktown development in general grow stagnant. For it really to achieve some sort of critical mass it needs better pedestrian flow and less surface parking occupying prime spots. This only serves to exacerbate Bricktown's shortcomings rather than improve upon them.

Developments can often have a downward pull on an area and hinder its improvement for years to come. Sometimes it is better to have nothing. Seriously. You could have put an Arby's there and I don't think anyone would be thinking "I'm so glad this is finally getting developed. Now Bricktown will really begin to fill up!". IMO, this development only continues the philosophy that has made Bricktown development in general grow stagnant. For it really to achieve some sort of critical mass it needs better pedestrian flow and less surface parking occupying prime spots. This only serves to exacerbate Bricktown's shortcomings rather than improve upon them.

Point taken, but its not like we have people just lined up to develop this site..
I was a fan of the Cotton Exchange, but that is LONG gone. Have we not gotten over that? Is that everyone's expectation for ths site? They did set the bar pretty high. That was going to be a cool project.

If any new buildings are built on the canal, or just in bricktown...they can't be glass right?..maybe all brick

What a waste.....of time, money and space.
It seems like the lowest common denominator still is unfortunately the OKC standard.

Point taken, but its not like we have people just lined up to develop this site..
I was a fan of the Cotton Exchange, but that is LONG gone. Have we not gotten over that? Is that everyone's expectation for ths site? They did set the bar pretty high. That was going to be a cool project.

Honestly, I don't think it needs to be anything that grand, although it obviously would have been cool. But this is pretty bad. The worst part is that it is on ground that is kind of the center piece of the canal. It really is the gateway from the street to the canal. It's also an important connection from Bricktown to Lower Bricktown. So now really, the center of Bricktown on Sheridan is largely a parking lot, the gateway to the canal and down Mickey Mantle will feature a surface parking lot at its center, and Lower Bricktown is more surface parking than anything else. So it ends up being as much emptiness as it is attractions.

It just kind of feels like Bricktown has lost some potential and it now just is was it is, and that's what's it's gonna be. IMO, this project is kind of the capstone to Bricktown's legacy of development mediocrity. At one time, I did think Bricktown could be a dense, vibrant, and diverse entertainment district as good as many in the country and better than some in the region. But I don't really see that any more. Unless something comes along that tries to really make a positive impact, this is it for Bricktown.

Due to its location, this site had the potential to really breathe life back into bricktown in terms of development and get people interested in the canal again, but I honestly don't see how this is an improvement in any way. I almost think it would have been better to commit it to green space and spruce it up than to just just pave over most of it and park cars on it.

This is a complete and total abortion. My company often hosts events in Bricktown / Downtown. I will make sure we never spend a dime there.

This is a complete and total abortion. My company often hosts events in Bricktown / Downtown. I will make sure we never spend a dime there.

You like the term "abortion", don't you? This is the second day in a row you've used it. LOL

What I don't understand is why the parking is being built. I don't mind the building but since when did we need more surface parking in Bricktown?

because peeps will pay for close in spaces rather than stroll in from farther out free spaces

As I said in the C2S thread, there are still plans for a bricktown public garage. If it is free, many of these surface lots will become a thing of the past at some point the distant future.

As I said in the C2S thread, there are still plans for a bricktown public garage. If it is free, many of these surface lots will become a thing of the past at some point the distant future.

Free would be ideal.

Is this project being built with the possibility of going vertical?

If the parking lots are to be converted at a later date.

Is this project being built with the possibility of going vertical?

If the parking lots are to be converted at a later date.

I THINK the answer to your question is yes... perhaps Steve can correct me if I'm wrong. Even if it is, I think that very few if any have faith that it would ever happen.

because peeps will pay for close in spaces rather than stroll in from farther out free spaces

It's funny that people would pay at all to hang out in an area dominated by parking lots in the first place, but it does make a good point: it seems the market here wants more parking more than they want a better entertainment district. The irony is that people here will complain about parking in bricktown, yet they will pay more to visit other cities to hang out in better entertainment districts that are better in large part because they are dominated by attractions and not parking lots. Bricktown has always kind of catered to that mentality. It seems bricktown's only worthy competitor is itself 5, 10, 15 years ago. Everyone just talks about how it can be better than it was in the recent past, which isn't that impressive, instead of thinking about how it can be as good as other districts like it in the region.

It's funny that people would pay at all to hang out in an area dominated by parking lots in the first place, but it does make a good point: it seems the market here wants more parking more than they want a better entertainment district.

It really is that simple.

You aren't considering the possibility that maybe people don't know exactly what they want, especially when it comes to an entertainment district. It seems like a lot of the bricktown crowd is out of towners (rural people) who like the surface parking for its convenience and familiarity. But I think people would walk an extra couple of blocks to a central garage if they could save $5-10.

Cornett's talking point on bricktown parking has been "Parking is a perception issue, its not a real issue." I've almost gotten tired of hearing it he has said it so much. But he sounds like he is changing his tune recently. His quote in the new online Downtown magazine:

We are also going to do another parking study. Some of the parking issues are still perception, but it's time to take another look at actual parking availability.

parking in bricktown is still a perception issue ...

he is talking about parking in the CBD during business hours ... it is becoming a problem

Cornett's talking point on bricktown parking has been "Parking is a perception issue, its not a real issue."

Personally, I do think parking is an issue, in that too much prime real estate is committed to parking and that is the main reason Bricktown has failed to reach a tipping point to becoming a higher profile entertainment district. If there was more stuff in the district, no one would complain about parking because the district would be worth walking to. Basically, you can pick any point in bricktown and walk in any direction the same distance that it takes to walk from one end of a super Wal-Mart to the other and you will be unable to avoid walking past surface parking. That is a development failure and a serious roadblock from BT ever achieving critical mass.

because peeps will pay for close in spaces rather than stroll in from farther out free spaces
Kevin, et al, although I generally agree that this project could certainly have been a lot better, it is also true that people with breathing or walking handicaps don't have the capability of "strolling in from further out free places," and I'm one of the "peeps" due to breathing issues. I just cannot walk for 1 to 1/2 block without being totally winded, and sometimes not even that far, depending on the temperature (either very hot or very cold = bad for me). So, it's not a totally black and white issue is all I'm saying.

Kevin, et al, although I generally agree that this project could certainly have been a lot better, it is also true that people with breathing or walking handicaps don't have the capability of "strolling in from further out free places," and I'm one of the "peeps" due to breathing issues. I just cannot walk for 1 to 1/2 block without being totally winded, and sometimes not even that far, depending on the temperature (either very hot or very cold = bad for me). So, it's not a totally black and white issue is all I'm saying.

With total respect intended towards you and your health, you are the exception to the rule. Ninety percent of those who whine about there not being enough parking within a couple blocks of their destination are so used to the drive-thru culture. Every major development in major cities have accommodations for those with disabilities. There are plenty of handicapped spaces readily available even in the downtown areas of major east coast cities. However, there is not parking for those who do not NEED it always readily available. It is the simple elementary difference between Needs and Wants. Too many people WANT to walk less than a block from their car, even if they do not NEED to do so.

I just cannot walk for 1 to 1/2 block without being totally winded, and sometimes not even that far, depending on the temperature (either very hot or very cold = bad for me). So, it's not a totally black and white issue is all I'm saying.

Which is another reason these developments are bad. The lots spread everything out more and make it harder for some people to experience all of bricktown. If every half block is surface parking, then you always have to walk a block from one joint to the next. I am all for making sure we have ample nearby parking for people with disabilities. I am perfectly willing to walk a little bit further to accommodate that. And the closer and more dense the attractions are, the more accessible and worth while it is for less mobile individuals, as they can walk less and do more.

SoonerLiberal: If you say so. But it is not at all uncommon for me to find the handicapped parking slots already full.

With total respect intended towards you and your health, you are the exception to the rule. Ninety percent of those who whine about there not being enough parking within a couple blocks of their destination are so used to the drive-thru culture. Every major development in major cities have accommodations for those with disabilities. There are plenty of handicapped spaces readily available even in the downtown areas of major east coast cities. However, there is not parking for those who do not NEED it always readily available. It is the simple elementary difference between Needs and Wants. Too many people WANT to walk less than a block from their car, even if they do not NEED to do so.

Awesome post!

SoonerLiberal: If you say so. But it is not at all uncommon for me to find the handicapped parking slots already full.

Doug, you're absolutely correct. I also utilize handicap parking and have the same problem. Some just don't realize how many people need handicap parking spots and not enough are allotted.

They need to build three or four 6-story parking garages in the middle of Bricktown and make the entire 1st level of all the parking garages handicapped. Just kidding of course...

They need to build three or four 6-story parking garages in the middle of Bricktown and make the entire 1st level of all the parking garages handicapped. Just kidding of course...

I know you're kidding, MDot, but finding handicap parking available can often be a problem. My mother is 87 and uses a walker. I often have to drop her off somewhere and then go park because I can't find a close space available.

I know you're kidding, MDot, but finding handicap parking available can often be a problem. My mother is 87 and uses a walker. I often have to drop her off somewhere and then go park because I can't find a close space available.

I share the same burden; my great-grandfather is 81 years old and I have to do the exact same thing just not in Bricktown because he has such a hard time walking that he won't go out very often and when he does it definately isn't Bricktown. He does want to eat on top of the Devon Tower once the restaurant opens though. LOL

I am going to ask a question that will no doubt be taken the wrong way, but I think it needs to be asked.... how come some of the most desirable, walkable places in the world are not lined with handicap spots? Are they unfair or do we perhaps put a little more emphasis on this than other countries?

I am all for access. Those who know me know I fight hard for handicap access on sidewalks and such. But I think it is not the panacea to create a parking spot for every possible disabled person coming into a district. There has to be compromise by all parties. A reduction in surface parking overall, for the sake of the district, is going to have to (I think) mean fewer than ideal designated handicap spots within 1/2 a block of any destination.

I have enormous passion for access, pedestrian issues, etc. So correct me where I am wrong.

You're not wrong, sid. My point was not that we need to add more parking. My point is that where parking is available, it's possible that more of it should be designated as handicap. And yes, I think we do put a bigger emphasis on that than many places in the world. And many of the most desirable walkable places in the world are not accessible to the handicapped for that reason. Whether that's bad or good, I'm not sure but it's an issue.

Doug, you're absolutely correct. I also utilize handicap parking and have the same problem. Some just don't realize how many people need handicap parking spots and not enough are allotted.

Then shouldn't the solution be to put more handicapped spots rather than simply more parking?

Proximity is sometimes an issue.

Not to "harp" on this, but I do believe that people often don't comprehend the level of accessibility that the streetcar will bring to disabled individuals. It is 4-5 years out, so I realize that dampens enthusiasm. But the streetcar will resolve many of these parking/proximity issues.

With that, I agree, at least along the route or very close to it.

Then shouldn't the solution be to put more handicapped spots rather than simply more parking?

That's exactly what I said. See post number 360.

Not to "harp" on this, but I do believe that people often don't comprehend the level of accessibility that the streetcar will bring to disabled individuals. It is 4-5 years out, so I realize that dampens enthusiasm. But the streetcar will resolve many of these parking/proximity issues.


I guess I've confused myself. I thought the early phase of the streetcar was 4-5 years out still and would include CBD and Midtown. Does the first phase also include a direct line into Bricktown along either Sheridan or Reno ?

Well, the thought is that the Santa Fe Depot downtown will serve Bricktown until the line is expanded to the east. The starter system (I think small starter systems are a horrible idea by the way) is being pitched as "Bricktown to Mid-town."