How can we send this entire thread and all the names associated with it to the Bricktown Urban Design Committee? There are a quite a few people on here that do no agree with this proposal. Simple email address information and we can all mass-bomb the committee with "eloquently" written emails that rationally explain why this SHOULD NOT be passed; something I bet those committee members already know.

I'd certainly sign it.

They didn't approve anything today - they continued it.

When was it continued until? I must agree that it doesn't make much sense to continue something if you are pretty certain you're going to deny it anyway. It doesn't look like any of the three things they requested change the fact at all that what we're talking about is putting surface parking lots along the Canal for lack of any real development happening. If that is acceptable to BUDC, then they have completely lost their authority on urban design, which is the very point of the committee to begin with.

Why can't they just put Johnson on the spot and ask him point-blank: "Do you realize where you are? This is Bricktown Urban Design. Do you know what urban design is? How do you expect us to justify us approving a parking lot right on the canal?"

By the way, what was this hotel group that approached Johnson? Was this a legitimate offer, proposing a real partnership in which they would have contributed their resources as well? It sounds to me like Johnson is not interested in any of the goals of Bricktown development, and the best thing the BUDC can do right now is just make him sell as fast as possible. Don't allow him to do anything with the land unless he's actually serious about developing it. His parking lot proposal shows that he is not a serious developer.

This site has a very tragic recent history.

I can tell you it was a very legitimate group with deep pockets. He just didn't want to partnership (as Marsh Pitman did w/ Raymond Management Group on the Hampton Inn)

Is the BUD committee aware of this rejected hotel proposal? (they should be, but I have to ask that question, well because it is what it is...)

If this hotel partnership is legit, this tells me that Bricktown is really really close to making that next step that has alluded this area every since Bass Pro. Imagine landing a real canal side hotel along with the new Hilton Garden Inn and this could happen in a year or two.

Seems like there are plenty of sites where this hotel could be built. Or renovate upper floors of existing buildings. Maybe they just need to build the hotel Canal side in front of Bass Pro. LOL

As I posted on Steve's newest article:

The retail component of this project is Mr. Johnson's liferaft. If he cared about adding retail to the canal, he would have added it into the design of the 10 story hotel proposal. He is adding the retail so they will approve his parking lot.

Bricktown Urban Design Committee, please reject this entire proposal next month. It does not follow urban design (hint your name), nor is it in the best interest of the city or Bricktown. This is not a good development.

http://newsok.com/clash-continues-over-proposed-parking-along-bricktown-canal/article/3604244?custom_click=lead_story_title

With all the argument about parking, and turning down 10 story hotel proposal, where would the residents of the hotel park? just sayin....lol....Moreover, I am sure the developers that approached Johnson with their hotel proposal have had plans to build a hotel in Bricktown area for a while, so just because Johnson turned them down, doesn't mean they won't build it somewhere else. Therefore, I think its good Johnson turned them away, now we will get 2 potential developments in Bricktown, instead of 1!

http://newsok.com/clash-continues-over-proposed-parking-along-bricktown-canal/article/3604244?custom_click=lead_story_title

Steve, Thanks for the story.

I see what is happening now. Time to Lawyer UP!!

We will see what the BUD is made of and if they truly have any power now that they are facing a determined developer and his attorney.

I put my money on the developer & attorney winning this and doing whatever he wants with his properties. I've heard many times that if one truly wants to challenge the Okc design committees either urban or historic, and you have the lawyers to do so, the city of Okc will cave.

Why is it so hard to find individual emails to Board Members of the BUD? All I've found is the email for the planning department, and lord knows if they would faithfully pass an email along to a certain Design Committee.

Also, I was looking through design guidelines for Bricktown, and it is specifically states that no new parking garage shall have parking at the canal-level or street-levels. VIOLATION. It also states no new surface parking lot shall be located adjacent to, or within 100' of the canal. VIOLATION.

It's pretty simple. He has not complied, so why are they even considering a continuation? DENY! You hear that Avis, Tom, Mark, Bob, Phil?

Also, I was looking through design guidelines for Bricktown, and it is specifically states that no new parking garage shall have parking at the canal-level or street-levels. VIOLATION. It also states no new surface parking lot shall be located adjacent to, or within 100' of the canal. VIOLATION.


The argument is that this is not a new surface lot but a roof that is most efficiently used for parking.

If this project must have parking, it would be best under the retail on the west side. Then it would not be visible.

The argument is that this is not a new surface lot but a roof that is most efficiently used for parking.

If this project must have parking, it would be best under the retail on the west side. Then it would not be visible.

From the same post you just quoted from me: "...I was looking through design guidelines for Bricktown, and it is specifically states that no new parking garage shall have parking at the canal-level or street-levels."

So even if it is not a parking lot, there is also a compliance guideline for parking garages, which this still violates, because it has been made clear by Chris Johnson he plans on adding two more levels of garage above the parking deck. The only reason I mentioned the parking lot code is because I can see how some may perceive it as a lot, and not a structure.

This site has a very tragic recent history.

Yes, it has. But I will tell you Gary Cotton was serious and worked hard. I know Gary and I saw what he was doing and visited with him about his efforts. I just think it was very ambitious for him and the timing was torpedoed by the economy. He invested a great deal of his own money and it was a big bet that he couldn't collect on. But, it was something that would have benefitted the canal area and BT very much.

......It's pretty simple. He has not complied, so why are they even considering a continuation?........

Because his attorney is bigger and badder than your attorney, that is why.

Whenever push comes to shove in Okc, design guideline really mean nothing.

Yes, it has. But I will tell you Gary Cotton was serious and worked hard. I know Gary and I saw what he was doing and visited with him about his efforts. I just think it was very ambitious for him and the timing was torpedoed by the economy. He invested a great deal of his own money and it was a big bet that he couldn't collect on. But, it was something that would have benefitted the canal area and BT very much.

I would second this, in terms of what the project would have done for Bricktown. Wow. But I had also heard from multiple people that Cotton was an inexperienced developer who was refusing the assistance of other more experienced developers..

I would second this, in terms of what the project would have done for Bricktown. Wow. But I had also heard from multiple people that Cotton was an inexperienced developer who was refusing the assistance of other more experienced developers..

Perhaps he didn't listen to some others, but he did hire some pretty good professionals and he worked very hard on the project. Gary had limited experience and, as I said, it was an ambitious project for him. Maybe he was in over his head, but I think his intentions were good. That is as opposed to current efforts which I think is NOT for the good intentions of the area. House of Bedlam seems like a good deal for the developer but it shouts "I don't give a damn about BT or OKC". Ironically, it is a business that plays up loyalty to state entities.

From the same post you just quoted from me: "...I was looking through design guidelines for Bricktown, and it is specifically states that no new parking garage shall have parking at the canal-level or street-levels."

So even if it is not a parking lot, there is also a compliance guideline for parking garages, which this still violates, because it has been made clear by Chris Johnson he plans on adding two more levels of garage above the parking deck. The only reason I mentioned the parking lot code is because I can see how some may perceive it as a lot, and not a structure.

He did not commit to building the garage at the meeting.

Perhaps he didn't listen to some others, but he did hire some pretty good professionals and he worked very hard on the project. Gary had limited experience and, as I said, it was an ambitious project for him. Maybe he was in over his head, but I think his intentions were good. That is as opposed to current efforts which I think is NOT for the good intentions of the area. House of Bedlam seems like a good deal for the developer but it shouts "I don't give a damn about BT or OKC". Ironically, it is a business that plays up loyalty to state entities.

Yup. This deal wreaks of bottom line except for the obvious that if a shoddy business like this is allowed in Bricktown then that causes damage to the bottom line of the district as a whole. Classier businesses would suffer from letting this crud actually happen.

With all the argument about parking, and turning down 10 story hotel proposal, where would the residents of the hotel park? just sayin....lol....Moreover, I am sure the developers that approached Johnson with their hotel proposal have had plans to build a hotel in Bricktown area for a while, so just because Johnson turned them down, doesn't mean they won't build it somewhere else. Therefore, I think its good Johnson turned them away, now we will get 2 potential developments in Bricktown, instead of 1!
Probably not, that inside corner of the canal is a special site and deserves a special development. Those wanting to develop a hotel on that particular corner may not have an interest in developing one elsewhere in Bricktown. One developed elsewhere would probably be very similar to what is already there and not what would be done on the grassy knoll.

What it seems like you are saying is any development for the sake of development is a good thing, I disagree. There is a big difference between a polished turd (what this proposal is) and something proper for its location. If he wanted to put this development somewhere else in Bricktown away from the canal, it is alright with what he has proposed. A development like he has proposed has no business being on the canal. As many of us have stated, the grass currently there is better than anything he has proposed because once a piece of crap goes in there, it will be there for a long, long time.

House of Bedlam development stalled again
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 08:14 PM Wednesday, October 12, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – Plans for the House of Bedlam development on the Bricktown Canal continue to be held up by the Bricktown Urban Design Committee.

The committee held off voting on the plans once again on Wednesday after a heated hour-and-a-half discussion. The plans have been held up by the committee several times since June.

Committee members on Wednesday raised concerns with everything from the visibility of a parking structure that is part of the project to handicapped accessibility and the design elements in windows of the project.

House of Bedlam owner Chris Johnson wants to build a sports memorabilia store and cafe on the Bricktown Canal, but has run into problems convincing the committee to approve plans for street-level parking on the canal – land many had hoped would one day become shops, restaurants or high-end condominiums.

Architect and Bricktown Urban Design Committee member Tom Wilson said he was opposed to the House of Bedlam project and urged other committee members to hold off on voting because he claimed design documents submitted to the city were inaccurate and inconsistent.

Even with additional documentation, Wilson said he planned to vote against the development.

“I don’t think this is the right project for Bricktown,” Wilson said. “I’m going to vote with my conscious and oppose it.”
Johnson returned to the committee on Wednesday with drawings that show a parking lot screened with shrubbery and brick planters.

“This is 30,000 square feet of badly needed retail space in Bricktown with only 55 parking spaces,” David Box, an attorney for Johnson, told the committee.

The revised plans show a one-story canal-level brick building that would house the House of Bedlam business across from the Bricktown Ballpark on Mickey Mantle Drive, and a parking structure to the west with additional retail space at canal level. A pedestrian bridge spanning the canal would link the two buildings. Johnson plans to lease out the additional retail space below the garage.

The committee told Johnson to come to its next monthly meeting with new site plans and drawings of the project.

This is 30,000 square feet of badly needed retail space in Bricktown with only 55 parking spaces.

If he nixed the "only 55 parking spaces" he could probably get the green light. He won't do that though because all he wants is the parking spaces.

Here is Steve's take on the same story.

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-bricktown-urban-design-committee-continues-to-defer-vote-on-proposed-parking-retail-development/article/3612931?custom_click=lead_story_title

I pray that if they ever end up voting on this that they vote a big fat effin' NO!!

This makes me sick! Always going to be small town with crap developments like this! smh!

Question to those upset with these designs: does this debate have any impact on your opinion of Johnson's business, USA Screen Printing?

Question to those upset with these designs: does this debate have any impact on your opinion of Johnson's business, USA Screen Printing?

No, nor should it!

Absolutely! He puts out a crap development like this, what does that say about how he runs his busniess? I have never been to his place but didn't think anything negative about it. After this I refuse to support USA Screen Printing.

I might be jumping the gun here but this is the one site on the canal that has the most potential and I want this one to be right, not a waste of space, not a money hungry land owner who wants to make a quick buck off of parking but a solid development. That is worth waiting for imho.

Amid all the skewed-angle renderings of the proposed brick buildings, there was a small site plan that clearly shows that most of their development would be about 75% parking:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/houseofbedlam.jpg

Pete, keep in mind there is retail underneath the entirety of the parking on the west side of this property

Pete, keep in mind there is retail underneath the entirety of the parking on the west side of this property

Make that 3 floors of retail and then we would have a project worth considering.

I love how this loser Johnson brings two attorneys and a court reporter in an effort to intimidate the committee.

The fact is that 0% of that development should be surface parking. It's unnecessary and it's not urban.

Question to those upset with these designs: does this debate have any impact on your opinion of Johnson's business, USA Screen Printing?

Yes. One would like to always work with businesses who are good corporate citizens. They are failing in that now. As a citizen of an industrial area like where they are now they are a good citizen. In BTown they are moving into an area where they apparently don't care if they are or not. This is tantamount to trying to move a trailer house into Nichols Hills. Just really bad judgement and thumbing their nose at their potential neighbors. Not the kind of business one wants to frequent.

Question to those upset with these designs: does this debate have any impact on your opinion of Johnson's business, USA Screen Printing?

Don't know the man. Don't know his business. But putting parking on both sides of the canal like that, even elevated above canal level, is simply ugly and a horrid idea for the canal and its visitors.

A development like he has proposed has no business being on the canal.

Oh, yeah?

Do you own Bricktown?

Do you own OKC?

Do you own the land?

If you answered NO to all of the above, then -censored-.

C'mon people, what is ya'all problem?! A business is a frickin' business. All of these whining like a bunch of newborns will only prevent economic growth! Crying about some parking spaces?! Frickin' gawd! Do you all realize that you are all in the MINORITY whining about a business having a parking area. How would you like it if your "oh so precious" local Walmart or Target don't have a single parking lot? Seriously, grow up!

Everyone CRY CRY CRY about lack of parking Downtown and Bricktown, but when some new parking proposals come up, everyone CRY CRY CRY. What the -censored-?!

Who are you all to determine what kind of business go next to a canal?! Do you think the canal is yours?! Do you own the canal?! Do you think you can say what can go there?! You want to be "I WANNA BE DA BOSS" of the canal?! Sure look like it to me!

There is nothing wrong with having a frickin mix of different retails along the canal. There is nothing wrong with having a frickin proposed store there along with OH SO MANY DIFFERENT BUSINESSES along the canal.

Just you all wait.... Once this passes and get built, what is going to happen? OHHHHH, YA'ALL SHOPPING AT THE NEW BUSINESS LOCATION!!! And what else? OH, I SEE YOUR HUMMER PARKED ON THE NEW LOT!!! Then look back at what ya'all was saying.... Oh, geez....

What a world. Right now, the Angels in Heaven are not singing a happy tune. Jesus is weeping up there and God is suddenly nowhere to be found.

(ends rant)

Actually, we do own the canal. It's public property.

Actually, we do own the canal. It's public property.

Oh, don't you dare try to tiptoe it around. You know what "ownership" that I'm talking about.

Everyone just need to shush up and let this thing get done so Bricktown can move forward.

Is that what everyone want to do? Moving forward? So far, I've seen everyone wanting to remain on Pause until death does us all part.

God is extremely upset. :-(

All I can do is LOL.

Oh, don't you dare try to tiptoe it around. You know what "ownership" that I'm talking about.

Everyone just need to shush up and let this thing get done so Bricktown can move forward.

Is that what everyone want to do? Moving forward? So far, I've seen everyone wanting to remain on Pause until death does us all part.

God is extremely upset. :-(

There are two ways you can move forward.

The first is rushing into development with no foresight into long term planning.

The second is being more strict and allowing a slower pace, with higher quality development.

Lower Bricktown is a testament to the former, Upper Bricktown, for the most part, is a testament to the latter.

This project is not anywhere near the highest use of that land. Sure it's been vacant for a long time. But with the private momentum downtown has had lately, it won't be vacant for long. According to multiple news reports, the owner of this land was approached with a proposal for a 10 story hotel to be built on the site. That right there was the trigger for me to support the council voting NO. It is clear there is potential for this piece of property, we should wait for it to open itself up. Not build a small parking garage and retail store.

Pete, keep in mind there is retail underneath the entirety of the parking on the west side of this property
Retail below does nothing for the streetscape, that property should have no parking on it, especially no street level parking which is what the majority is. He is a parking lot operator trying to use some miniscule retail space (in terms of overall lot potential) as a cover to get approved. This is a poor attempt, again. In other parts of Bricktown it wouldn't be "that" big of an issue, for the prime corner of the canal, it is.

I think everyone besides Thunder is an agreement. This project is awful. I'd way rather that land remain vacant then see parking next to the canal.

... What a world. Right now, the Angels in Heaven are not singing a happy tune. Jesus is weeping up there and God is suddenly nowhere to be found.
(ends rant)

But hey, on the brighter side of life, at least your pup is already extremely committed to recycling.

I think everyone besides Thunder is an agreement. This project is awful. I'd way rather that land remain vacant then see parking next to the canal.

Yeah, pretty much.

I think everyone besides Thunder is an agreement. This project is awful. I'd way rather that land remain vacant then see parking next to the canal.

I agree this project is awful and should be rejected, however, to say this bad proposal must reflect on how poorly he runs his other business is asinine at best.

Oh, yeah?

Do you own Bricktown?

Do you own OKC?

Do you own the land?

If you answered NO to all of the above, then -censored-.

C'mon people, what is ya'all problem?! A business is a frickin' business. All of these whining like a bunch of newborns will only prevent economic growth! Crying about some parking spaces?! Frickin' gawd! Do you all realize that you are all in the MINORITY whining about a business having a parking area. How would you like it if your "oh so precious" local Walmart or Target don't have a single parking lot? Seriously, grow up!

Everyone CRY CRY CRY about lack of parking Downtown and Bricktown, but when some new parking proposals come up, everyone CRY CRY CRY. What the -censored-?!

Who are you all to determine what kind of business go next to a canal?! Do you think the canal is yours?! Do you own the canal?! Do you think you can say what can go there?! You want to be "I WANNA BE DA BOSS" of the canal?! Sure look like it to me!

There is nothing wrong with having a frickin mix of different retails along the canal. There is nothing wrong with having a frickin proposed store there along with OH SO MANY DIFFERENT BUSINESSES along the canal.

Just you all wait.... Once this passes and get built, what is going to happen? OHHHHH, YA'ALL SHOPPING AT THE NEW BUSINESS LOCATION!!! And what else? OH, I SEE YOUR HUMMER PARKED ON THE NEW LOT!!! Then look back at what ya'all was saying.... Oh, geez....

What a world. Right now, the Angels in Heaven are not singing a happy tune. Jesus is weeping up there and God is suddenly nowhere to be found.

(ends rant)

Lol.

All I can do is LOL.

Oddly enough - it actually makes me sad.

Oh, yeah?

Do you own Bricktown?

Do you own OKC?

Do you own the land?

If you answered NO to all of the above, then -censored-.

C'mon people, what is ya'all problem?! A business is a frickin' business. All of these whining like a bunch of newborns will only prevent economic growth! Crying about some parking spaces?! Frickin' gawd! Do you all realize that you are all in the MINORITY whining about a business having a parking area. How would you like it if your "oh so precious" local Walmart or Target don't have a single parking lot? Seriously, grow up!

Everyone CRY CRY CRY about lack of parking Downtown and Bricktown, but when some new parking proposals come up, everyone CRY CRY CRY. What the -censored-?!

Who are you all to determine what kind of business go next to a canal?! Do you think the canal is yours?! Do you own the canal?! Do you think you can say what can go there?! You want to be "I WANNA BE DA BOSS" of the canal?! Sure look like it to me!

There is nothing wrong with having a frickin mix of different retails along the canal. There is nothing wrong with having a frickin proposed store there along with OH SO MANY DIFFERENT BUSINESSES along the canal.

Just you all wait.... Once this passes and get built, what is going to happen? OHHHHH, YA'ALL SHOPPING AT THE NEW BUSINESS LOCATION!!! And what else? OH, I SEE YOUR HUMMER PARKED ON THE NEW LOT!!! Then look back at what ya'all was saying.... Oh, geez....

What a world. Right now, the Angels in Heaven are not singing a happy tune. Jesus is weeping up there and God is suddenly nowhere to be found.

(ends rant)


Well, I guess we now know what name Chris Johnson uses to post on OKC Talk.

Wow, what a revelation--Chris Johnson isn't greedy, he's just...Thunder.

Wow, what a revelation--Chris Johnson isn't greedy, he's just...Thunder.

:LolLolLol

Well, I guess we now know what name Chris Johnson uses to post on OKC Talk.


Wow, what a revelation--Chris Johnson isn't greedy, he's just...Thunder.

Good evening, this is Chris Johnson on OKCTalk.com. Lets talk about the horrors of BUD...

The horrors of BUD is that they have no backbone and have traditionally allowed shoddy crap to take over Bricktown and they have practically only taken a stance against McDonald's. They need to throw more weight around if they're going to be taken seriously as an urban design commission.

You're pretty much on target, Spartan, but they are getting better as evinced by the Hilton Garden redesign and this process. I don't think this monster gets built.

Here's the disconnect I often see on issues like this: you have those who say the community has no business regulating design, construction in Bricktown, that free enterprise should be allowed to "do its thing." But what we're seeing is NOT the result of free enterprise. Oklahoma City residents invested upwards of $75 million in Bricktown (going on memory, $23 million on ballpark, $30 million on the canal, $20 million on Bass Pro Shops, another $10 million or more on streetscapes, straightening of Reno Avenue, restoration of Walnut Avenue bridge, etc). There are those who look at this and say, "this is not really free enterprise - people like Chris Johnson are indebted to OKC taxpayers and should be expected to match the level of quality placed into the district by the city...."

I completely agree, Steve. I think most people take your latter view, certainly after considering all the issues in play. Not to mention that the government is legitimately exercising its police powers. If "free enterprise" governed everything, I could open a bar in my living room tonight.

Bingo ^


You're pretty much on target, Spartan, but they are getting better as evinced by the Hilton Garden redesign and this process. I don't think this monster gets built.

I don't think so either, but we've had some unhappy surprises before when it comes to these things.

Well said, Steve! I'm so glad BUD is standing up to this guy...

new plans approved today by Bricktown Urban Design Committee, C.Johnson moves forward with development...

Any changes in the design?

I'm really beginning to lose faith in quality urban development in this city. For every good project, we get three bad ones plus a parking lot or two. Wow.

Good article in the OKCCentral Blog