Downtown's new nickname: CCZ

Continuous Construction Zone.

(does that merit one of these: :) ... or one of these: :( ...... maybe both)

Gotta be a pain in the posterior for those living/working downtown right now. But then again... what excitement, what buzz! Things are just plain happening. It's crazy (crazy good).

Nope, I live and work downtown and it doesn't bother me at all. Enjoy all the excitement.

I found it funny in the interview on NewsOk that Johnson implied the reason the initial design was disliked by the BUDC was because it wasn't big enough, not because of the huge parking lot.

Pete, any chance you could swap out the old photo in the article section with the updated rendering? Here is what is there now, which (fortunately) has almost zero relationship with what is going in now

Done.

I found it funny in the interview on NewsOk that Johnson implied the reason the initial design was disliked by the BUDC was because it wasn't big enough, not because of the huge parking lot.

basic best foot forward. Noting others were preferring a larger building happens to equal a smaller parking lot, simply without focusing on the negative regarding the parking.

I know Gary and the project. 2007 was not when it went down. However, banking reluctance as a result of the recession made it more difficult for sure. It was ambitious and OKC was not ready for it then. There is way more evidence that would support projecting success for a similar project now. It was also a very ambitious project for someone who had never done something of that scale and style.

It was ahead of its time, but not by much. Steve said as much at the time and he nailed it.

I understand that Gary had the same leasing specialist that Randy Hogan used for the Centennial which filled up and had a long waiting list, of which, apparently none were interested in a better development further up the Canal? It was just a weird time in economics..

The failure of the Cotton Exchange project had nothing to do with the economy. He NEVER had financing lined up to begin with. The plans were great, but from the outset the entire exercise was a PR-driven fishing expedition for financing/partners, which is not unprecedented in Bricktown.

The failure of the Cotton Exchange project had nothing to do with the economy. He NEVER had financing lined up to begin with. The plans were great, but from the outset the entire exercise was a PR-driven fishing expedition for financing/partners, which is not unprecedented in Bricktown.

So, are you actually familiar with the work Gary put in or just speculating? You think the banking and real estate recession/depression had nothing to do with what happened? Really?

Developers often spend considerable amounts of time and money before they get all the financing arranged. If you understand the development process you understand the risk they stand. Few developers have the ability to fund their projects themselves and rarely can get full funding until plans are more fully completed and chances of success are established. Gary was serious and had better things to do with his money than to go on a PR fishing expedition.

So, are you actually familiar with the work Gary put in or just speculating? You think the banking and real estate recession/depression had nothing to do with what happened? Really?

Developers often spend considerable amounts of time and money before they get all the financing arranged. If you understand the development process you understand the risk they stand. Few developers have the ability to fund their projects themselves and rarely can get full funding until plans are more fully completed and chances of success are established. Gary was serious and had better things to do with his money than to go on a PR fishing expedition.

Urbanized is, and has been, very involved with bricktown for a very long time. I would put his word right next to Pete and Steve in the trustworthy column.

I am sure he is...not doubting it and have no reason to. But, it doesn't mean that he is correct that economics had nothing to do with the project going forward. That would be denying what was going on with banking and real estate financing. This was a very ambitious project for the time and risky. Plus, Gary hadn't done anything this ambitious before. Hard to get financing for that combination.

So, are you actually familiar with the work Gary put in or just speculating? You think the banking and real estate recession/depression had nothing to do with what happened? Really?

Developers often spend considerable amounts of time and money before they get all the financing arranged. If you understand the development process you understand the risk they stand. Few developers have the ability to fund their projects themselves and rarely can get full funding until plans are more fully completed and chances of success are established. Gary was serious and had better things to do with his money than to go on a PR fishing expedition.
OK, it's like this: I met Gary, but won't represent that I know him well at all, or know what his bank account looks like. I do/did know people on his real estate team (one very well at the time), and at his architectural firm, and at the engineering firm he was working with. I also know someone who inquired about getting involved in the financing of the deal and spoke with him at some length about it. The project was also (understandably - as it was huge at the time for OKC) quite actively mulled over in downtown development circles and within the Bricktown district.

What I posted wasn't meant to disrespect him; just a blunt analysis of the deal as far as I could tell through my contacts and conversations. I have no doubt whatsoever that Gary intended to pull it off and that he honestly believed that he could. I will also give him props for pulling together excellent teams, for having great ideas, and for spending what no doubt amounted to a lot of money on the site acquisition and plans.

However, from the outset, the general consensus of all I spoke to who were "in the know" was that it was going to be an awesome project...IF he could pull the financing together. From day one, even before it was announced publicly, that qualifier was attached to every conversation. He also made some reasonably public appeals for partner-type assistance with financing. So, from day one it was fairly well-known that he didn't yet have the money end of the deal done. Nevertheless he went public with it and powered on anyway. That is a strategy, and sometimes it pays off. But it is quite a different approach than getting all of your ducks in a row and THEN announcing a project.

If you want proof of these conversations, you might want to read THIS ARTICLE (http://newsok.com/the-cotton-exchange/article/3837199) by Steve that was questioning its financial viability in January of 2008. He was gutting the plans by June (and Steve was posting "I told you so" on his blog and in this forum) (http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/13231-cotton-exchange-plans-change-significantly.html). Sept of the same year was when the already-faltering economy took its violent turn, the one that REALLY put other projects on hold (though most folks didn't understand that until a little bit later), but Gary had already cut bait by then (http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/14189-cotton-exchange-gets-scratched.html). By November, he was making plans to auction the property (http://newsok.com/bricktown-developer-plans-auction-of-canal-property-in-oklahoma-city/article/3324962).

Like I said, I don't doubt for a minute that the guy intended to do it, he hired the right folks to put it together, but the opinion by most was that financing ALWAYS was the weak link, economy or no.

So, are you actually familiar with the work Gary put in or just speculating? You think the banking and real estate recession/depression had nothing to do with what happened? Really?

Developers often spend considerable amounts of time and money before they get all the financing arranged. If you understand the development process you understand the risk they stand. Few developers have the ability to fund their projects themselves and rarely can get full funding until plans are more fully completed and chances of success are established. Gary was serious and had better things to do with his money than to go on a PR fishing expedition.
Even if a developer could self finance most won't if they can get financing on the open market, why put that large of a chunk of their money at that kind of risk? Every Koontz-McCombs, Transwestern, Endeavor, Staubach/Jones Lang LaSalle, Trammell Crow project that I worked on had financing on it and sometimes the finance people had requirements that we had to meet in regards to design beyond what the client wanted before they would sign off on it, that was especially the case with ING. For the size of projects that we were doing Bart Koontz and Red McCombs could probably write a check for it but why when they had people willing to finance their projects. The only development project that I felt was self financed was JDM Place but then Dr. McKean had an interest in some banks as well and was in the process of selling some other businesses. I do know he was the one making the money decision on that project. I also had plenty of preliminary design and rendering which failed to get enough financing, so I know exactly what the people who worked on the big plans for that site went through.

OK, it's like this: I met Gary, but won't represent that I know him well at all, or know what his bank account looks like. I do/did know people on his real estate team (one very well at the time), and at his architectural firm, and at the engineering firm he was working with. I also know someone who inquired about getting involved in the financing of the deal and spoke with him at some length about it. The project was also (understandably - as it was huge at the time for OKC) quite actively mulled over in downtown development circles and within the Bricktown district.

What I posted wasn't meant to disrespect him; just a blunt analysis of the deal as far as I could tell through my contacts and conversations. I have no doubt whatsoever that Gary intended to pull it off and that he honestly believed that he could. I will also give him props for pulling together excellent teams, for having great ideas, and for spending what no doubt amounted to a lot of money on the site acquisition and plans.

However, from the outset, the general consensus of all I spoke to who were "in the know" was that it was going to be an awesome project...IF he could pull the financing together. From day one, even before it was announced publicly, that qualifier was attached to every conversation. He also made some reasonably public appeals for partner-type assistance with financing. So, from day one it was fairly well-known that he didn't yet have the money end of the deal done. Nevertheless he went public with it and powered on anyway. That is a strategy, and sometimes it pays off. But it is quite a different approach than getting all of your ducks in a row and THEN announcing a project.

If you want proof of these conversations, you might want to read THIS ARTICLE (http://newsok.com/the-cotton-exchange/article/3837199) by Steve that was questioning its financial viability in January of 2008. He was gutting the plans by June (and Steve was posting "I told you so" on his blog and in this forum) (http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/13231-cotton-exchange-plans-change-significantly.html). Sept of the same year was when the already-faltering economy took its violent turn, the one that REALLY put other projects on hold (though most folks didn't understand that until a little bit later), but Gary had already cut bait by then (http://www.okctalk.com/general-civic-issues/14189-cotton-exchange-gets-scratched.html). By November, he was making plans to auction the property (http://newsok.com/bricktown-developer-plans-auction-of-canal-property-in-oklahoma-city/article/3324962).

Like I said, I don't doubt for a minute that the guy intended to do it, he hired the right folks to put it together, but the opinion by most was that financing ALWAYS was the weak link, economy or no.


I think this is a fair depiction. My comments were really that it wasn't a pr grab, but a too ambitious project for someone who hadn't done it and didn't have the credentials to pull it off in an atmosphere of more stringent financing and an unproven market at that time.

House of Bedlam (September 16 2013) - a set on Flickr (http://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157635590042224/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEU4XrEnOA

House of Bedlam (September 16 2013) - YouTube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaEU4XrEnOA)

Today, courtesy of Catch22:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bedlam103013.jpg

Corny name.

I guess the building/development is now called Brickopolis with House of Bedlam (and others) as tenant.

Corny name.
Correct.

Brickopolis?

Sounds like a Lego store, lol.

Too bad the design review committee couldn't make them change the name as well...

Brickopolis isn't that bad in my opinion. I think this will be a hit and will definitely add to the feel of density along that part of the canal. I would also like to see the corner across from it developed.

Brickopolis in Bricktown

Catchy ... but then, so are head lice and crabs.

Come on people. Complaining about a "Corny" name? Is the sky falling? Will the name of this development deem Bricktown an epic fail? Hardly. More infill for BT and add to the mix!

I'll also point out that this seems to be referring to the piece that includes laser tag, arcade/redemption games, pizza, etc. the House of Bedlam store looks like a component, but not really the main brand. I haven't spoken with Chris in a while, but that is the impression I get from the signage I saw on the canal last week. If this is the case and the name refers to the family/youth-oriented entertainment venue, I think it's an OK brand.

It's not quite as bad as when some folks were all aboard for Oklahoma City Arena on Oklahoma City Blvd. in Oklahoma City, but it's closer than I wish it were.

No question it probably could have been a little more clever, but it does have an appropriately gamer sound to it, and it communicates the Bricktown location effectively, so from a branding standpoint it probably gets a C+ or even a B considering the concept.

Come on people. Complaining about a "Corny" name? Is the sky falling? Will the name of this development deem Bricktown an epic fail? Hardly. More infill for BT and add to the mix!

Overreact much? It IS a corny name. Was there any other remark or criticism? NO. You are the only one associating a comment on a name with "epic fail" and "sky falling". Somebody needs some Zoloft.

Overreact much? It IS a corny name. Was there any other remark or criticism? NO. You are the only one associating a comment on a name with "epic fail" and "sky falling". Somebody needs some Zoloft. Lol, too funny. Now Rover, do me a favor and "roll over and play dead". Silly Rover.

That response is about as clever as the name.

ha

Progress:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bedlam12313.jpg

Good update, that angle helps you see what a small site it really is

Glad to see the sidewalk is still intact. Hopefully it will remain open throughout construction; a rarity for OKC.

They will have to close it at a minimum when they are flying steel. I believe plans call for it to be closed for much of the constrction, but with a lane closure and protected walkway taking the lane. This is not a problem on Mickey Mantle, which is excessively wide.

Aloft maaaaaaaaaaay finish before this one...

By the way, that photo shows the brand new (as in less than a month old) white, membrane roof on the Hunzicker and Pittsburgh Plate Glass buildings which is a key element in getting the upper floors redeveloped.

It hasn't been discussed much on this site, but the canal-side retail frontage of these buildings is soon to be 100% occupied - on both street AND canal levels - including Captain Norm's Dockside Bar, Peachwave, Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium, and the soon-to-open Home Slice Pizza. Most of the street level of the Flaming Lips Alley side is now also developed, with the recently-opened Bricktown Music Hall and the alley frontage of the Red Dirt Emporium. Plans are being formulated for the small remaining undeveloped street-level portion facing Oklahoma Avenue, and also for the upper floors of both buildings.

^

Awesome!

Is this the same Home Slice Pizza that is in Austin?
Home Slice Pizza (http://www.homeslicepizza.com/)

No. Local ownership. The name is different.

By the way, that photo shows the brand new (as in less than a month old) white, membrane roof on the Hunzicker and Pittsburgh Plate Glass buildings which is a key element in getting the upper floors redeveloped.

It hasn't been discussed much on this site, but the canal-side retail frontage of these buildings is soon to be 100% occupied - on both street AND canal levels - including Captain Norm's Dockside Bar, Peachwave, Oklahoma's Red Dirt Emporium, and the soon-to-open Home Slice Pizza. Most of the street level of the Flaming Lips Alley side is now also developed, with the recently-opened Bricktown Music Hall and the alley frontage of the Red Dirt Emporium. Plans are being formulated for the small remaining undeveloped street-level portion facing Oklahoma Avenue, and also for the upper floors of both buildings.

From what you've heard, will the new canal level stuff have some type of canal interaction(patios, etc)?

Also has anyone heard anything new about chris Johnson's corner lot?

I'm not sure what you are referring to as far as new canal level stuff, since the only thing canal level is Captain Norm's which has been there for two years now. By definition it has good canal interaction, because it is ONLY a patio. It has become wildly popular in good weather (heavily skewed to local business and regulars, BTW), and has now even permanently installed radiant heaters at the bar itself for "iffy" cool (though not frigid) weather. It also has many dozens of seats at a rail overlooking the canal, and regularly features live outdoor music (7 nights a week during Spring/Summer/Fall). Here is a photo:

5180

In that pic, the two darkened large windows and door at street level on the Hunzicker building will shortly be home to Home Slice, which will open days from now, featuring by-the-slice pizza and late hours (they intend to be open as late as 3 or later on weekends).

Regarding the Chris Johnson building, I know he intends to have retail/restaurant space open on the canal level, with an overhang to provide shade.

Regarding the space across the canal (the grass lot) he has recently been working aggressively on developing this, though I don't know the current status. I do know that he had been working with one or more hotel developers, so hopefully that is the direction in which it is still headed.

I'm not sure what you are referring to as far as new canal level stuff, since the only thing canal level is Captain Norm's which has been there for two years now. By definition it has good canal interaction, because it is ONLY a patio. It has become wildly popular in good weather (heavily skewed to local business and regulars, BTW), and has now even permanently installed radiant heaters at the bar itself for "iffy" cool (though not frigid) weather. It also has many dozens of seats at a rail overlooking the canal, and regularly features live outdoor music (7 nights a week during Spring/Summer/Fall). Here is a photo:

5180

In that pic, the two darkened large windows and door at street level on the Hunzicker building will shortly be home to Home Slice, which will open days from now, featuring by-the-slice pizza and late hours (they intend to be open as late as 3 or later on weekends).

Regarding the Chris Johnson building, I know he intends to have retail/restaurant space open on the canal level, with an overhang to provide shade.

Regarding the space across the canal (the grass lot) he has recently been working aggressively on developing this, though I don't know the current status. I do know that he had been working with one or more hotel developers, so hopefully that is the direction in which it is still headed.

Thanks!

$1.8 building permit application on 1/10/14.

Looks like they are getting ready to go up.

Yeah, they did a temporary electrical service bypass to the Water Taxi ticket booth on Friday. First activity in a long time. And they were in a HURRY.

A mobile crane has been delivered to the site. Appears that work will begin in earnest shortly.

Sweet, looking forward to this being done. Was hoping for a D&B in BT (for additional family options during the day) but this will do for now.

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/6152d1389877768-house-bedlam-bedlam11314a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/6153d1389877768-house-bedlam-bedlam11314b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/6154d1389877769-house-bedlam-bedlam11314c.jpg

BTW on Tuesday when I was in BT the fence was taking up the entire driving lane (presuming for the crane) but as usual in OKC there was no sidewalk alternative put in place so you have to cross the street right there in the middle. I feel like the lanes are wide enough that a temp pedestrian path could be established with plenty of room for cars still. I wish we'd get better as a city about this.

There is no city ordinance requiring it. Maybe we should start a petition to get an ordinance added for this?

Same setup at 11th and Walker. 3 lane street, sidewalk is torn up for the Ambassador hotel, traffic still gets 3 lanes while the pedestrian loses one of its "lanes".

I'd sign it.

Hey Urbanized,

Do you know if "Brickopolis" is the official name of this building or just a tenant of the building along with HoB or a working title type of deal?

U1CryznOp4g

Hey Urbanized,

Do you know if "Brickopolis" is the official name of this building or just a tenant of the building along with HoB or a working title type of deal?

I think House of Bedlam will be a retail tenant inside Brickopolis, which I believe refers to the entertainment venue but also gives the building its name. I THINK.

I like the name Brickopolis.

I've gone hot and cold on it, but I must say from a branding standpoint it accomplishes a couple of desirable things. First, it has a bit of a gamer sound to it, which helps communicate purpose. Second, I actually don't think it could be any better at communicating location short of putting the full word "Bricktown" in the name, which would be predictable and overdone at this point.

BTW on Tuesday when I was in BT the fence was taking up the entire driving lane (presuming for the crane) but as usual in OKC there was no sidewalk alternative put in place so you have to cross the street right there in the middle. I feel like the lanes are wide enough that a temp pedestrian path could be established with plenty of room for cars still. I wish we'd get better as a city about this.

What's even sadder is how the city has failed to change with the times and recognize Deep Deuce as a residential district. They have let developers there do pretty much whatever they want during construction with no consideration to the residents. I'm not saying they need to limit what they can do, but maybe how and when they do it. 4am concrete pours and allowing heavy machinery to obstruct private access is just not cool at this point.

The City Manager's office has asked Traffic to work with the construction company to alleviate this problem on Mickey Mantle in Bricktown and at the very least ensure that it won't be a long-term situation on this project. This came from a meeting on Bricktown issues that was facilitated by Downtown OKC Inc.

One thing that will be a challenge on this tight spot is the room and safety buffer they will need when flying steel. So it's a good thing that this part of the construction seems likely to happen during a relatively slow period.

The House of Bedlam project seems to be moving very slowly. It looks the same as the pictures posted here in early December.

There were some unforeseen issues related to property use. The design was predicated in part upon building over a sliver of land that the previous owner had a revocable permit for. It had slipped through the process, but then the City eventually caught the oversight. Their position is that a revocable can't be transferred from one owner to the next, nor can it have a permanent structure built on it.

Fortunately it was a very small part of the development plan and was fairly easily eliminated, but it required some minor redesign and permitting changes, which the City has been working with the owner, architect and contractor to bring about. Construction was necessarily suspended during this time.

There were some unforeseen issues related to property use. The design was predicated in part upon building over a sliver of land that the previous owner had a revocable permit for. It had slipped through the process, but then the City eventually caught the oversight. Their position is that a revocable can't be transferred from one owner to the next, nor can it have a permanent structure built on it.

Fortunately it was a very small part of the development plan and was fairly easily eliminated, but it required some minor redesign and permitting changes, which the City has been working with the owner, architect and contractor to bring about. Construction was necessarily suspended during this time.

How large of a space exactly?

Minor. Just a few feet wide by the canal overlook. Still, required some plan alterations and delays. If someone has never been around a commercial construction project, these types of delays often seem frustrating and inexplicable. But really, it's just a part of the process.

Some jobs go smoother (and faster) than others. But it's not (always) a good indication of whether or not a developer or contractor has their **** together; it just is what it is. Commercial construction (especially in old, urban areas) is usually a highly complex proposition.