View Full Version : Mideke Building



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Anonymous.
08-06-2013, 09:27 PM
No balconies? No longer interested...

Spartan
08-07-2013, 09:09 AM
Rent is $600 supposedly. Keep that in mind. That's cheap...

Pete
08-07-2013, 09:14 AM
Just to be clear, although there will not be balconies there will be sliding doors with guard rails. You can see them better here.

Also, note the addition of both a glass-enclosed and open rooftop area:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/mideke8613d.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/mideke8613c.jpg

Spartan
08-07-2013, 09:33 AM
Yeah, I don't know if they'll really be able to keep rents around $600 when it's all said and done, but if they can that will set the bar for affordable housing AND it will allow more ACM students, artists, etc to move in. That will be HUGE for Bricktown alone, and probably help create more of a "scene" than higher-end apartments would.

The way that I would do these renovations is use fairly prefab materials, don't necessarily cut corners, but just don't add some amenities - but purposely leave some amenities that can be added later once these apartments are 10 years old or so. Balconies, for example, would be a great amenity that could be easily added to increase value as the units age.

We want affordable housing downtown but we don't want to be stuck with section 8 10 years down the road...

betts
08-07-2013, 09:34 AM
Sliding doors with guard rails are "Juliet balconies" in Chicago. I remember my daughter excitedly telling me her new apartment had a Juliet balcony and I was surprised at the reality. You can put flower baskets on them, and on a beautiful day/night, it's nice to open the sliding door. I'm sure adding balconies would have increased what the developers would have to charge for rent, so it's a trade-off.

What would be cool is a rooftop garden/space. I've been up on that roof and the view is amazing. I'm sure that would increase rents as well, though.

Pete
08-07-2013, 09:35 AM
Wouldn't this be the first downtown residential project without dedicated parking?

Not sure how they are going to handle that but at the very least there won't be directly adjacent parking specific for this project.

Spartan
08-07-2013, 09:38 AM
Park Harvey.

betts
08-07-2013, 09:39 AM
Wouldn't this be the first downtown residential project without dedicated parking?

Not sure how they are going to handle that but at the very least there won't be directly adjacent parking specific for this project.

I've been told the developers are leasing dedicated space in the big Bricktown lot due north of Main St.

Pete
08-07-2013, 09:40 AM
What would be cool is a rooftop garden/space. I've been up on that roof and the view is amazing. I'm sure that would increase rents as well, though.

You may have not seen the rendering I posted above that shows a glassed-in and open rooftop terrace.

betts
08-07-2013, 09:45 AM
You may have not seen the rendering I posted above that shows a glassed-in and open rooftop terrace.

Ah, didn't realize that's what those boxes were. I thought maybe it was for mechanicals. That's great news. Too bad those units aren't for sale. Maybe someday! If I'm ever going to downsize in OKC, I'd totally buy space in that building, parking or no. By then the streetcar will be in place and maybe better bus transit on the way and my car could sit most of the time.

Anonymous.
08-07-2013, 10:03 AM
I can almost guarantee rent for these won't be $600. Some of those units on the floorplans show 2 bedroom and 2 bath.

With location being selling point over amenities downtown right now, the owners would be cheating themselves by renting for $600.

jn1780
08-07-2013, 10:06 AM
Yeah, I don't know if they'll really be able to keep rents around $600 when it's all said and done, but if they can that will set the bar for affordable housing AND it will allow more ACM students, artists, etc to move in. That will be HUGE for Bricktown alone, and probably help create more of a "scene" than higher-end apartments would.

The way that I would do these renovations is use fairly prefab materials, don't necessarily cut corners, but just don't add some amenities - but purposely leave some amenities that can be added later once these apartments are 10 years old or so. Balconies, for example, would be a great amenity that could be easily added to increase value as the units age.

We want affordable housing downtown but we don't want to be stuck with section 8 10 years down the road...

Well, they said starting at $600. I don't know what you get for $600. Probably a very small studio apartment.

Pete
08-07-2013, 10:11 AM
The balconies were to be very small; just large enough to step out.

However, the corner units should still have private outdoor space, as the interior walls are actually set back from the building walls as you can see in the upper left and right corners of this layout of the third floor (I believe the 4th & 5th will be the same):

http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/1650d1337207432-mideke-building-mercantile2.jpg

Anonymous.
08-07-2013, 10:17 AM
I thought that floorplan draft was the original, with balconies. It is extremely hard to read the text on these graphics.


But yes now that I study it further, it looks like the (what appears to be) east end of the building corner units will have balconies still. Granted that is the side of the building without the best views, but still decent nonetheless.

Pete
08-07-2013, 10:33 AM
Here is a closer look at the latest plans.

The walk-out balconies are still shown as highlighted, but only on the east side:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/mideke8613e.jpg

Anonymous.
08-07-2013, 10:45 AM
I will take the top floor NE corner unit please! Main is going to be an awesome street once the HIE is done and the residential down the street is ramping up.

Pete
08-07-2013, 10:47 AM
Yes, Main has always had the potential to be more of a street for locals.

Would love to see the old foundry building just west of the Sherman Building turned into a cool bar concept. Perfect spot for a beer garden.

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020026875001qA.jpg

city
08-07-2013, 11:43 AM
I'm the same way. I don't get it. The best locations in any city downtown usually have balconies. If I was looking to move from Deep Deuce to Bricktown I'd have considered this building but frankly I'm really interested in that little bit of outdoor access/balcony.

Sad to see the decisions being made that are only going to hurt their ability to compete with the out of state developers come in and show them how to build urban residential.
You must remember that this building is individually listed on the Historic Register and as such all amendments to the outside are totally dictated by the National Park Service.

jn1780
08-07-2013, 12:06 PM
I'm really excited about this one. This is exactlly the type of thing Bricktown needs to have happen more often. We have SOOOOO many structures that sit with a restauruant on the ground floor, and nothing up above. It's so much wasted space and such a missed opportunity from the mixed-use density perspective as well. Take the Spaghetti Warehouse right next door. So many floors of bricked over windows....such a waste.



Yes, they really made that building look terrible when they did that. I hope there's a chance that the window openings could actually be unbricked in the future.

Pete
08-07-2013, 12:10 PM
Hopefully the Mideke project will provide a blueprint for others in Bricktown to follow.

Urbanized
08-07-2013, 12:11 PM
You must remember that this building is individually listed on the Historic Register and as such all amendments to the outside are totally dictated by the National Park Service.
This is not true. Only if they pursue tax credits do the Secretary of the Interior's standards apply. Of course, they might be pursuing them here, in which case it IS true. But the way your post reads doesn't indicate that. People think a National Register listing somehow protects buildings, or dictates what changes may be made to them, and it is a 100% wrong (but common) misconception.

The only things National Register placement does are:

1. Keeps a building's historic construction intact IF TAX CREDITS ARE PURSUED

and

2. Makes teardown extremely difficult to clear the way for projects that involve federal funding (roads, for instance)

If the developer is pursuing tax credits, you're technically correct. But the only thing that applies 100% of the time in Bricktown or elsewhere are the (City's) local design ordinances for a specific area.

city
08-07-2013, 01:26 PM
Guess I left that part out. I stand corrected. They are pursuing historical tax credits; only way it can be done financially.

Urbanized
08-07-2013, 01:42 PM
Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification. It's a minor detail, but so many people misunderstand both HP and National Register listings. Just the minor difference between voluntary and compulsory gives these things an undeserved negative reputation in some minds. There are plenty of people who would never think of tackling a reuse on an old home or building because they (usually incorrectly) believe there are too many hoops to jump through. Unfortunately such false assumptions mathematically reduce the chances of adaptive reuse and contribute to lots of great old buildings decaying or disappearing.

Spartan
08-07-2013, 03:51 PM
I can almost guarantee rent for these won't be $600. Some of those units on the floorplans show 2 bedroom and 2 bath.

With location being selling point over amenities downtown right now, the owners would be cheating themselves by renting for $600.

Location is hardly a selling point over amenities in our tiny downtown... Come on, it's all one location - downtown, and the most specific that gets is sub districts. Design is the overriding selling point that differentiates developments. Most of the larger ones, especially DeepDeuce or The Edge, literally have CREATED the location considering how empty downtown used to be.

This is the ONLY place on the Interwebz where some downtown snobs can bash an awesome project that happens to include a few more affordable units for a few posts and then some suburban snobs pick up where they left off bashing HP. ARGH yoose people are relentless....

Pete
08-14-2013, 08:34 AM
In advance of their hearing at tomorrow's Downtown Design Review Board, I'm hearing that Marva Ellard has now dropped off this project.

The other three partners will go forward and are hoping to really get this project going after obtaining the necessary approvals.

Hopefully this will free up Marva for other projects.

HangryHippo
08-14-2013, 08:59 AM
I wonder why Marva dropped out...

Spartan
08-14-2013, 09:55 AM
I'm sure it was the balcony v. no balcony debate that raged on in private discussions (not)

Anonymous.
09-11-2013, 02:30 PM
Still have not seen any work being done or even activity on any of the upper floors. Did something go down?

Drake
09-11-2013, 10:30 PM
Still have not seen any work being done or even activity on any of the upper floors. Did something go down?

I had heard the actual physical work would probably wouldn't start until towards the end of the year. Dealing with the red tape that goes along with projects like this is cumbersome.

Garin
10-26-2013, 12:42 PM
It has taken close to 4 months to clean out the top three floors which is all complete now. They are keeping the original windows and just repairing broken glass ,stripping and painting the frames. Rehabbing the windows would have been over a third of the projects budget so they had to take a step back. The east side is where all the new doors and glass will go. The rooftop will make up for the lack of balconies IMO.

Urbanized
10-26-2013, 02:26 PM
Garin, stripping and painting the original casement windows and replacing broken glass is exactly the right approach. Removal and replacement of them would have been a needless expense and actually diminished the building's value as a historic structure. There are techniques that allow historic casements to be rehabbed to energy standards comparable with modern windows. People need to get over the idea that it is preferable and should be the default position to replace "old" windows in historic rehabilitation.

They are doing exactly the right thing. It should not be characterized as a compromise.

Garin
10-26-2013, 07:57 PM
Garin, stripping and painting the original casement windows and replacing broken glass is exactly the right approach. Removal and replacement of them would have been a needless expense and actually diminished the building's value as a historic structure. There are techniques that allow historic casements to be rehabbed to energy standards comparable with modern windows. People need to get over the idea that it is preferable and should be the default position to replace "old" windows in historic rehabilitation.




They are doing exactly the right thing. It should not be characterized as a compromise.

They are not putting insulated glass back in, they are leaving them as single pane.

Urbanized
10-26-2013, 08:11 PM
Where did I suggest they are?

It could always be done later. But if they tore out the casements they would be gone forever. Re-working and sealing the frames is the most important part of making them more energy efficient, anyway.

Garin
10-26-2013, 08:38 PM
You didn't I was saying they were weren't going to use ig units that's all

Anonymous.
10-27-2013, 02:15 PM
I am so confused, so are the corner units going to have balconies still or not?

Pete
10-27-2013, 02:28 PM
I am so confused, so are the corner units going to have balconies still or not?

Yes, only the corner units.

Pete
12-02-2013, 10:36 AM
Has anyone noticed serious construction yet on this project?

PhiAlpha
12-02-2013, 11:12 AM
Just saw this and happened to be driving through Bricktown. No noticeable progress that I could see from the outside. Couldn't tell if anything has gone on inside.

metro
12-02-2013, 11:57 AM
Drove by the other day and couldn't notice anything either.

catch22
12-02-2013, 12:08 PM
I parked by it a week ago and there were workers inside. If I was not mistaken.

Pete
12-02-2013, 12:19 PM
I saw all the lights were on inside in a photo someone took from Vast.

Most the work will be inside but there should be dumpsters and other signs around.

Anonymous.
12-02-2013, 12:33 PM
I look everyday. I have not seen anything that looks like gutting/demo inside or out. In fact, some of the windows on the top floors have been open for forever.

PhiAlpha
12-02-2013, 02:27 PM
I saw all the lights were on inside in a photo someone took from Vast.

Most the work will be inside but there should be dumpsters and other signs around.

There may not be too much need for large dumpsters, at least for demo purposes. I've been up on those floors and other than just some assorted junk that the owners put in storage, there isn't much up there. The floors are big and empty so I'm not sure how much demolition work will be necessary.

Garin
12-02-2013, 08:53 PM
New doors and a few windows should be ordered within the next few weeks. The floors have been completely emptied. They are keeping the original windows and just repainting them. Should start seeing some work starting pretty soon.... They have been dragging their feet on this project and don't expect that to change its just how they function.

UnFrSaKn
12-03-2013, 06:39 AM
December 2 2013

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3788/11187538064_094c7257c0_h.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7365/11187537524_3b812f01de_h.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3804/11187545306_945934112c_h.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3768/11187544204_2021c8910e_h.jpg

HangryHippo
12-03-2013, 08:56 AM
These are going to be some sweet apartments if they ever come to fruition.

mcca7596
01-28-2014, 10:55 AM
Any noticeable changes with this yet? Or updates?

shawnw
02-06-2014, 02:53 AM
Sorry, I know there has been no shortage of requests for updates, but I went back and re-read the thread and thought I'd summarize, as well as ask some questions...


This project received $500,000 in TIF funding from the City yesterday.

This happened February 2013, so it's been almost a year since they received TIF funds. Question about this... does "received" mean they got a check, or does it mean they get the promise of a check upon completion? Is there any kind of expiration on these funds or the promise of them?


$2,000,000 building permit today for this project.

Looks like it's getting ready to roll!

So by June 2013 there was TIF approval and a building permit. Also, Legacy Bank financing (per photos). Is it fair to presume that Legacy wouldn't allow their banner to be put up unless they were 100% on board financing wise?


This project set to go before the Bricktown Design Review Committee on 8/14.

No future point in the thread says it got approved, BUT there were design changes, so presumably there were multiple rounds with the BDRC? Can we confirm design approval?


They are pursuing historical tax credits; only way it can be done financially.

Is THIS the hold up? Waiting for the credits? Same question as with the TIF funding, do these tax credits happen up front or are they reimbursed upon completion for any taxes paid?


I had heard the actual physical work would probably wouldn't start until towards the end of the year. Dealing with the red tape that goes along with projects like this is cumbersome.

End of the year has come and gone, is there a new estimate? What kind of red tape was left considering all that had been done to this point?


It has taken close to 4 months to clean out the top three floors which is all complete now.

This was posted in late October. So I presume July through October was the clean-out, which is now complete.


New doors and a few windows should be ordered within the next few weeks. The floors have been completely emptied. They are keeping the original windows and just repainting them. Should start seeing some work starting pretty soon.... They have been dragging their feet on this project and don't expect that to change its just how they function.

This was posted in early December. I suppose we could still be within the "pretty soon" timeframe.


Okay so that's the summary. Apologies for any ignorant questions. Anything else we can we add to this timeline?

Oh, and Pete, your summary at the top of the page says 30 units, but one of the posts states 36. What's the correct number?

Spartan
02-06-2014, 06:24 AM
HTC's are issued after final review but can be syndicated up front. The SHPO can take a while for final approval.

Pete
03-05-2014, 01:40 PM
Found this in the agenda for the Urban Renewal Authority's meeting tomorrow.

This would explain why there have been so little activity at the Mideke Building. Will be very interesting to see who will be taking the space.


In August 2013, under the Authority’s newly-established affordable housing
program using Community Development Block Grant (CDBG) funds provided by the City of
Oklahoma City, the Authority entered into a Redevelopment Agreement with The Mideke
Building, LLC, (Redeveloper) a redevelopment team led by Andy Burnett, for the conversion the
top three floors of the Mideke Building (also known as the Mercantile Building), located at 100
E. Main Street in Bricktown, to approximately 36 loft apartments for rent by middle income
wage earners. In exchange for the conversion, the Authority was to provide CDBG funding to
enable them to provide approximately one-third of the units at below-market rents in order to
make them available for persons of moderate incomes within the definitions provided by HUD
for CDBG.

However, the Redeveloper has since received an offer to lease the Mideke Building for
potentially a higher and better use. The Redeveloper has requested an agreement terminating the
Redevelopment Agreement and providing for the Redeveloper’s reimbursement to the Authority
for its costs incurred with respect to the project.

catch22
03-05-2014, 02:51 PM
Pete, I know I saw the sign on the building saying they were leasing to commercial and retail. Several weeks/months ago. Thought it may have been an outdated sign they forgot to pull down. Related? Tom Ward's new company?

catch22
03-05-2014, 02:52 PM
^ And actually, the pics from Will from December show that leasing sign. Office/Retail.

Pete
03-05-2014, 03:04 PM
Tapstone (Tom Ward) is a very good guess.

I know they have been working on a deal in the downtown area and that they hit a snag at the Rock Island Plow.

HangryHippo
03-05-2014, 03:41 PM
Tapstone (Tom Ward) is a very good guess.

I know they have been working on a deal in the downtown area and that they hit a snag at the Rock Island Plow.

Is an energy company located there a higher and better use for the property over residential?

Pete
03-05-2014, 04:02 PM
Higher and better is in the eye of the beholder.

I suspect a quality office tenant would pay more rent.

Chadanth
03-05-2014, 04:05 PM
Higher and better is in the eye of the beholder.

I suspect a quality office tenant would pay more rent.

And it's easier to deal with an office tenant over 24 residential tenants.

catch22
03-05-2014, 04:05 PM
Higher and better is in the eye of the beholder.

I suspect a quality office tenant would pay more rent.

Not only a higher rent, but a more stable one, without the headache of keeping up with 30 different tenants and their respective billing and payments, deposits, complaints, and maintenance requests.

Urbanized
03-05-2014, 05:19 PM
If this happens - and if there is any shift in ground floor tenants - I hope they reserve street frontage for retail/restaurant. Ground floor office would not be great for the area, but upper floor is fine, especially considering the tenant.

Pete
03-05-2014, 08:41 PM
I just heard from a very good source that Tapstone is indeed going into this building.

Don't think they will be taking the ground floor, but will take most the rest of the building.

Knowing Tom Ward, they will create a very nice space for the new company.

betts
03-05-2014, 08:44 PM
Interesting. Maybe someone will look at converting upper floors in a different building into housing.