development
|category1=Housing
|category2=Midtown
|category3=Current
|category4=
|
|project=
|address=711 N. Hudson (http://goo.gl/maps/ogS2i)
|status=existing building under renovation
|owner=Robert Lewis, Marva Ellard
|cost=
|architect=Walter Anton (for the current renovations)
|start=3Q 2011
|finish=
|contractor=
|height=2 stories
|sq. feet=3,000
|acerage=.2410
|other=Historic Allen's Cafe building is being renovated into high-end apartments, 3 additional townhomes will be constructed between this building and NW 6th Street.
|
|image=http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/711nhudson1.jpg
|

Information & Latest News
http://www.newsok.com/housing-is-coming-to-former-downtown-oklahoma-city-home-of-allens-cafe/article/3568842
Links
County Assessor Record (http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/AN-R.asp?ACCOUNTNO=R010019392)
Gallery

Great news, and it will help my property value go up.

http://www.newsok.com/housing-is-coming-to-former-downtown-oklahoma-city-home-of-allens-cafe/article/3568842

This is just crazy:

"Each home is intended to span 1,700 to 2,200 square feet, each with its own two-car garage. Ellard estimates the homes will sell between $400,000 and $450,000".

Anyone who pays almost half a million dollars for a 1,700 sqft house in downtown OKC is stupid, when you can drive 20 mins south, and get a house 3x that size for the same price.

... and drive 20 miles each way to work and cringe everytime you have to put gas in the car. Not to mention drive everytime you want to go the movies or out to dinner. I think the price is about $50,000 to high but the concept is sound. I think this concept moved out a few more blocks will do great.

... and drive 20 miles each way to work and cringe everytime you have to put gas in the car. Not to mention drive everytime you want to go the movies or out to dinner. I think the price is about $50,000 to high but the concept is sound. I think this concept move out a few more blocks will do great.

I think the price is too high, and concept is shot for that area. Low-rise lofts or condos ranging from $250 - $300k sounds more feasible...

something like this:

http://austindowntownlofts.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/waterstreet-lofts-austindowntownlofts-com-9-500x300.jpg

I do chuckle somewhat at the notion of buying a very walkable location for a premium price when a not insignificant portion of the home is devoted to a two car garage. Nothing wrong with that, it simply amuses me

G.Walker;430735]I think the price is too high, and concept is shot for that area. Low-rise lofts or condos ranging from $250 - $300k sounds more feasible...

It is too small a lot for that

I do chuckle somewhat at the notion of buying a very walkable location for a premium price when a not insignificant portion of the home is devoted to a two car garage. Nothing wrong with that, it simply amuses me

I see it as a transitional step. You still cannot live downtown without a car. Maybe some day a one car garage will suffice.

I think a development at 11th & Shartel is planned like that at that price point. This property has a very pretty view down into the memorial and tall buildings beyond.

believe it or not, i have seen modern houses (2000 SF) near the classen curve sold for around $400k.

That's a great location and I hope they can pull it off.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/711hudson1.jpg

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/1420635/gallery_large?recordView=0

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/1420637/gallery_large?recordView=0

Great news, and it will help my property value go up.

Mine too. lol

http://www.newsok.com/housing-is-coming-to-former-downtown-oklahoma-city-home-of-allens-cafe/article/3568842

This is just crazy:

"Each home is intended to span 1,700 to 2,200 square feet, each with its own two-car garage. Ellard estimates the homes will sell between $400,000 and $450,000".

Anyone who pays almost half a million dollars for a 1,700 sqft house in downtown OKC is stupid, when you can drive 20 mins south, and get a house 3x that size for the same price.

And this is exactly the kind of thinking and attitudes that keeps us from supporting a truly urban downtown. Everyone wants the lifestyle and quality but only on the cheap. And everyone can't understand why developers aren't falling over themselves to do quality development in downtown. Or why the idea of a quality lifestyle center at the old Ford site is probably less feasable than the CC center there.

I hope they are able to find a few buyers. This would be good infill.

http://www.newsok.com/housing-is-coming-to-former-downtown-oklahoma-city-home-of-allens-cafe/article/3568842

This is just crazy:

"Each home is intended to span 1,700 to 2,200 square feet, each with its own two-car garage. Ellard estimates the homes will sell between $400,000 and $450,000".

Anyone who pays almost half a million dollars for a 1,700 sqft house in downtown OKC is stupid, when you can drive 20 mins south, and get a house 3x that size for the same price.

Yeah, I've looked at those houses 20 minutes south. They're built with 2x4s, have crappy insulation, cheap roofs, builders grade everything and in 20 years they'll look like it. I would assume that if you're paying $400,000 for 1700 square feet you're getting top of the line everything. Again, it's all relative. In Nichols Hills, you can't even get a new or updated house for $200 a square foot and people pay more because they want to live there. In other cities you might pay $500 to $1,000 a square foot minimum to live downtown. Eventually, and I hope it's soon, we'll have enough downtown that people will be willing to pay a premium to live there. The reason I hope that's the case is because that means our downtown is exciting and vibrant enough to attract people who want quality housing. That's the way it is in most cities.

http://www.newsok.com/housing-is-coming-to-former-downtown-oklahoma-city-home-of-allens-cafe/article/3568842

This is just crazy:

"Each home is intended to span 1,700 to 2,200 square feet, each with its own two-car garage. Ellard estimates the homes will sell between $400,000 and $450,000".

Anyone who pays almost half a million dollars for a 1,700 sqft house in downtown OKC is stupid, when you can drive 20 mins south, and get a house 3x that size for the same price.

What makes you think that downtown development and southside development should be priced equally? That is kind of an ignorant viewpoint.

I like the project. With Marva Ellard you know that no corners will be cut and that the product will be the absolute highest-quality. I am skeptical of for-sale as a unitary market strategy but increasing the real estate options downtown at any rate is always a good thing. This will also add some geographic diversity there as well, and inject some new life in a kind of dead part of downtown. But while dead, it has huge potential, with the new coffee shop and restaurant on Hudson, yoga studio, and so on... the border of Mid-town and downtown is underrated.

By the way, this project is just 6 units. It states that the 3 new construction units will be over $400,000. However, I'm not sure that that is the case with the two loft units above the private residence in the historic building. I imagine that the top floor units will be a lot smaller than 1,700 sf.

I think this is a perfect kind of "for sale" infill project. It is targeted to a very narrow market, but is small and the risk is measured. I think Ellard will do well with this...at least I hope so.

Oh and I checked, and "if you drive 20 minutes south from downtown" $400,000-$450,000 will get you around 3,500 square feet. So hardly three times the size. Of course, this is relying on REALLY good traffic, because if it's normal traffic then 20 minutes drive will get you about down to 59th Street. As my own parents live around SW 134th and May, I can tell you that it's even less square footage if you have a completely custom-built house with all top-of-the-line features. Look in the Chatenay development at 104th and Penn--those are $400,000 townhomes, with around 2,000 sf or so.

http://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-search/73170/price-400000-450000

I think a development at 11th & Shartel is planned like that at that price point. This property has a very pretty view down into the memorial and tall buildings beyond.
9th and Shartel.

Damn...I thought Allen's might be coming back. I loved that place...within walking distance of work and great food.

I think the question is, are there enough people that can afford that price point (not talking about this specific project but DT pricing in general)? There seems to be a disconnect somewhere and I don't know where it is. On one hand we are considered a poor state, 90% of children in the OKC public schools qualify for the reduced or free lunch program, reportedly, payscales across the board, for the state are near the bottom ranking. Yet on the other hand, we have relatively low unemployment, low cost of living, average income exceeds the national average (or was it disposable income?)

By the way, can we get the name of this thread changed?

nm

I think the question is, are there enough people that can afford that price point (not talking about this specific project but DT pricing in general)? There seems to be a disconnect somewhere and I don't know where it is. On one hand we are considered a poor state, 90% of children in the OKC public schools qualify for the reduced or free lunch program, reportedly, payscales across the board, for the state are near the bottom ranking. Yet on the other hand, we have relatively low unemployment, low cost of living, average income exceeds the national average (or was it disposable income?)

Surely you jest. This project is a few residences. If appealing and of values, this development will sell quickly. There are way plenty who can afford this. There are huge neighborhoods all over the city with properties selling at this level and higher. The question is, will they want to live THERE or in THAT.

I say build what they want. But, I certainly would never consider it and we are looking downtown. We've looked at 4 homes in the $300K - $600K in the Heritage Hills area and all offered us far more for the money.

We have friends over in Deep Deuce in a condo and only just recently did they actually get a neighbor. They've been the only resident on the 3rd floor of their building for quite awhile and the units are already becoming rentals. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are willing to pay these prices, but I just don't see the value for the money. But I guess that's just us.

I say build what they want. But, I certainly would never consider it and we are looking downtown. We've looked at 4 homes in the $300K - $600K in the Heritage Hills area and all offered us far more for the money.

We have friends over in Deep Deuce in a condo and only just recently did they actually get a neighbor. They've been the only resident on the 3rd floor of their building for quite awhile and the units are already becoming rentals. I'm sure there are plenty of people who are willing to pay these prices, but I just don't see the value for the money. But I guess that's just us.
I live in Heritage Hills have...for decades. Great Place to live .. extemely high maintenance costs.
If this project is quality construction, has a lock and leave aspect and a HOA and pool as I have been told; I would trade because I would still be in the area I love and less time taking care of property.

Yes, lots of people have that view, city. I think only after you've owned a historic home for a decade or so can you fully appreciate the time and money required.

Also, there is usually a huge difference in utility costs in old vs. new.

I live in Heritage Hills have...for decades. Great Place to live .. extemely high maintenance costs.
If this project is quality construction, has a lock and leave aspect and a HOA and pool as I have been told; I would trade because I would still be in the area I love and less time taking care of property.

We are the opposite, we prefer to stay home most of the time and be outside and tend to the garden, koi pond, etc. On our low range we find smaller homes that need some work, on the $600K range we are finding homes that have already been redone and are larger. I would hope this would translate into less interior upkeep costs (plumbing, wiring, roof).

Our friends in Deep Deuce like their 'lock and leave' condo lifestyle, but get annoyed with having spent $700K+ and have neighbors whose dog use what limited grass there is for their bathroom and the metal balconies are already rusting and general upkeep is going downhill and the place is only 1/3 full. I noticed the property value with the assessor is actually going down year-to-year also (-$40K from last year).

What development is that again in Deep Deuce? It would be a shame if what you say is true; that general upkeep is being let go, and balconies are rusting? That's sad. I'm sorry for your friend. That's a huge difference in value within a year, I hope the investment doesn't turn sour for him.

What development is that again in Deep Deuce? It would be a shame if what you say is true; that general upkeep is being let go, and balconies are rusting? That's sad. I'm sorry for your friend. That's a huge difference in value within a year, I hope the investment doesn't turn sour for him.

444 N. Central Ave.

Their condo is absolutely beautiful - but that is only because they told the developer to stay out of it and they tore it all out and built it out themselves. That said, the landscaping is the pits, the 3rd floor balcony is already needing repairs, the metal balconies are rusting and the elevator always smells really bad. Not to mention ongoing leaks in the halls.

I thought it might be the Central Avenue Villas. Shame, that's a new development too, doesn't look bad from the outside either. Makes it even more disappointing.

444 N. Central Ave.

Their condo is absolutely beautiful - but that is only because they told the developer to stay out of it and they tore it all out and built it out themselves. That said, the landscaping is the pits, the 3rd floor balcony is already needing repairs, the metal balconies are rusting and the elevator always smells really bad. Not to mention ongoing leaks in the halls.

I wondered about stuff like this at Central Ave from day one. They built it like a dormitory, and seems to have some outdated design techniques.

I wondered about stuff like this at Central Ave from day one. They built it like a dormitory, and seems to have some outdated design techniques.

The builder is definitely clueless or cut corners. The small units look okay, but the interior layout of the larger units is horrendous. Looks like a cheapo apartment. They bought the largest unit (NW corner). Funny thing is, the builder was caught taking people inside their unit and telling them this was an example of what they could do for them if they bought one. What a joke.

I went to their site and a video popped up. A really extravagant unit showed up with dark cabinets and granite countertops. Was this your friend's? Because I've seen realtor pictures of how the actual units are finished and that WAS NOT representative of what I've seen.

Link? [never mind, found it]

I went to the main site, the units depicted in the pics and video are the 2-bedroom units.

Here's a comparison:
The top pic is what the developer came up with for a two-bedroom unit. The bottom pic is what our friends came up with for their two bedroom unit. Major difference in quality. Their's looks like a Tuscan villa inside, while the others look like apartments.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/1492/kitchensg.jpg

I have family in Tulsa that recently bought a condo around Lewis and 71st Street for around $400k, and it only has 2,000 square feet. Inside is pretty nice though, I would say definitely worth it. The thing though is that these kinds of specialty properties are worth it in downtown because it's easier to sell. My relatives who have such a specialty condo in South Tulsa are going to have a hell of a time selling it if they ever decide to move, because the market for that kind of thing effectively ends at 51st Street in Tulsa. But you would still be surprised how many of these Frasier-esque condos there are in hidden places in the suburbs.

Surely you jest. This project is a few residences. If appealing and of values, this development will sell quickly. There are way plenty who can afford this. There are huge neighborhoods all over the city with properties selling at this level and higher. The question is, will they want to live THERE or in THAT.

No I wasn't joking. You missed the part where I said I wasn't talking about this specific project (because of the small number of units). I guess the people that can afford this, either don't have kids or are in the 10% minority that aren't on the reduced/free lunch program then. "o more than a third of your gross annual income should go towards housing. As for rent, you should not spent anymore than 25% of your gross income.
Housing - This expense should include mortgage, insurance, gas, electricity, maintenance, and phone. (according to crown.org budget guide) Rent or your monthly mortgage payment plus each of the above should never exceed 36%. 1/3 is generally a good rule just as with the 1st answer, but don' t forget that the number includes the other housing expenses."

What does the monthly mortgage work out to being on this?

Given the 33% rule, what income would you have to have (including the related housing expenses)?

Any real estate 101 class states condos are the worst investment one can make.. Might as well buy a mobile home and park it by the river..

Any real estate 101 class states condos are the worst investment one can make.. Might as well buy a mobile home and park it by the river..

Alot of those same classes encouraged people on the West Coast to buy already overpriced real-estate and not to worry about the adjustable rate mortgage because they'd flip it in a year or so and double or triple their money!

I know two people that have made a fortune on condos they bought in Austin 12 or so years ago and sold for huge profits. Now, OKC overpriced condos - that may prove to be a totally different story.

I went to the main site, the units depicted in the pics and video are the 2-bedroom units.

Here's a comparison:
The top pic is what the developer came up with for a two-bedroom unit. The bottom pic is what our friends came up with for their two bedroom unit. Major difference in quality. Their's looks like a Tuscan villa inside, while the others look like apartments.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/1492/kitchensg.jpg

Not sure how you determine quality by just looking at the pics. What you can determine is that your friends kitchen is very suburban in style and very common. Not saying the top kitchen is much better but the bottom pic aint my style.

I'm not basing my opinion on pics. I've been in several of the units. For awhile several were left unlocked 24/7. The quality and layout nowhere matches the price. That top pic could be from any $600 month apartment in town. My teen lives in one that looks almost identical and there is no way I'd spend $250K to buy it. The bottom one is straight out of a magazine and I laugh at the 'common' statement. It might well be 'common' for $500,000 homes but every $100,000 flip turns their kitchen into the one on top with prefab cabinets and low quality granite.

Any real estate 101 class states condos are the worst investment one can make.. Might as well buy a mobile home and park it by the river..
To clarify; the article states these are detached houses, each on their own plat. The Allen's Cafe building has two condo flats; one on each floor.

I'm not basing my opinion on pics. I've been in several of the units. For awhile several were left unlocked 24/7. The quality and layout nowhere matches the price. That top pic could be from any $600 month apartment in town. My teen lives in one that looks almost identical and there is no way I'd spent $250K to buy it. The bottom one is straight out of a magazine and I laugh at the 'common' statement. It might well be 'common' for $500,000 homes but every $100,000 flip turns their kitchen into the one on top with prefab cabinets and low quality granite.
But this is very suburban and is now very much dated.

I prefer the style of the upper picture, but I lean to more modern style but Brian is correct, that kitchen is standard issue for most newer apartments, Downtown Austin is full of those. I like the openness of the lower pic but I absolutely hate the faux Tuscan (and Country French styles that are so prominent down here. It would not hurt my feelings to do another faux Tuscan project down here but I know that I will have more than a few during the rest of my career.

I went to the main site, the units depicted in the pics and video are the 2-bedroom units.

Here's a comparison:
The top pic is what the developer came up with for a two-bedroom unit. The bottom pic is what our friends came up with for their two bedroom unit. Major difference in quality. Their's looks like a Tuscan villa inside, while the others look like apartments.

http://img813.imageshack.us/img813/1492/kitchensg.jpg

While the first is rather uninspired, the second is not anything I would want. It's all a matter of taste. I can't speak to the quality because I know no one who lives there. Metal does rust, however, and is part of the upkeep on outdoor metal railings. The balconies on that building don't look cheap, but I don't know much about powder coating and what you can expect.

Alot of those same classes encouraged people on the West Coast to buy already overpriced real-estate and not to worry about the adjustable rate mortgage because they'd flip it in a year or so and double or triple their money!

Like

Yes, lots of people have that view, city. I think only after you've owned a historic home for a decade or so can you fully appreciate the time and money required.

Also, there is usually a huge difference in utility costs in old vs. new.
Maintenance and utility costs are the main expense for us in our Mesta Park home, as well. After all, the house was built in 1910, 101 years ago. But, at least, the mortgage note has been paid so that only leaves insurance and taxes ... plus good relations with plumbers, sewer line guys, odd-jobs fix-this-or-that people, and occasional painters and electricians.

But, unless I get to the point that I cannot climb one flight of stairs or the wife kicks me out, I ain't movin'. It is SO cool to get up on a spring or summer or fall morning, go out on the front porch that is semi-masked with some sort of evergreen vegetation (the kind that has the tiny blue balls on it, whatever that is), has a great view across, up and down the street full of tall, medium and diverse types of trees, yards with lots of colorful flowers in their yards, birds chirping as they dash in/out of your gentle sprinkling of the lawn as I sit on my good-sized porch reading the morning paper hoping thinking that maybe this will be the day with a few good stories in it (I typically go to the business section to see if brother Steve has anything new to say, and then to sports, and then to the rest) as I sip my morning coffee and smoking my cigarette and have a morning chat with my wife (which usually only occurs on weekends), I'm as content with where I live as those cardinals and robins satisfy ing their small needs in the gentle sprinkler on my wife's flower garden. It's also nice to watch the walkers, joggers, and dog-walkers as they do their morning routines. And, when I want, I can crank up my magnificent manly-man charcoal grill in the afternoon for some great tasting steaks. Ahh ... Sure, the kitchen needs a complete makeover and will never be up to snuff with either of the apartment or condo kitchen photos above, there is simply not enough space for that. For me, that's not a problem.

But, I can easily see where many would prefer to opt-out of those sorts of things and keep home expense simple, and these kinds of projects may be just what they are looking for.

... with some sort of evergreen vegetation (the kind that has the tiny blue balls on it, whatever that is),

That is a male smurf-berry tree.


Sure, the kitchen needs a complete makeover and will never be up to snuff with either of the apartment or condo kitchen photos above, there is simply not enough space for that.

If you have access to DIY Network they have a whole show dedicated to redoing old kitchens on a budget. You would be surprised how far $1,000 can go (minus new appliances of course).

http://www.diynetwork.com/kitchen/index.html

http://www.diynetwork.com/i-hate-my-kitchen/show/index.html

Maintenance and utility costs are the main expense for us in our Mesta Park home, as well. After all, the house was built in 1910, 101 years ago. But, at least, the mortgage note has been paid so that only leaves insurance and taxes ... plus good relations with plumbers, sewer line guys, odd-jobs fix-this-or-that people, and occasional painters and electricians.

But, unless I get to the point that I cannot climb one flight of stairs or the wife kicks me out, I ain't movin'. It is SO cool to get up on a spring or summer or fall morning, go out on the front porch that is semi-masked with some sort of evergreen vegetation (the kind that has the tiny blue balls on it, whatever that is), has a great view across, up and down the street full of tall, medium and diverse types of trees, yards with lots of colorful flowers in their yards, birds chirping as they dash in/out of your gentle sprinkling of the lawn as I sit on my good-sized porch reading the morning paper hoping thinking that maybe this will be the day with a few good stories in it (I typically go to the business section to see if brother Steve has anything new to say, and then to sports, and then to the rest) as I sip my morning coffee and smoking my cigarette and have a morning chat with my wife (which usually only occurs on weekends), I'm as content with where I live as those cardinals and robins satisfy ing their small needs in the gentle sprinkler on my wife's flower garden. It's also nice to watch the walkers, joggers, and dog-walkers as they do their morning routines. And, when I want, I can crank up my magnificent manly-man charcoal grill in the afternoon for some great tasting steaks. Ahh ... Sure, the kitchen needs a complete makeover and will never be up to snuff with either of the apartment or condo kitchen photos above, there is simply not enough space for that. For me, that's not a problem.

But, I can easily see where many would prefer to opt-out of those sorts of things and keep home expense simple, and these kinds of projects may be just what they are looking for.

Doug, you've got one of the best porches in the city.

Doug, you've got one of the best porches in the city.

Do I smell a coffee-table book featuring the best porches in Oklahoma City in the making?

That is a male smurf-berry tree.
I asked my wife what the bushes are this afternoon and she said some kind of fir. I like male smurf-berry better, though. And thanks for the links.

Thanks, Steve.

Do I smell a coffee-table book featuring the best porches in Oklahoma City in the making?

Probably not anytime soon. I'm attached to three book projects now with two others waiting ...

Maintenance and utility costs are the main expense for us in our Mesta Park home, as well. After all, the house was built in 1910, 101 years ago. But, at least, the mortgage note has been paid so that only leaves insurance and taxes ... plus good relations with plumbers, sewer line guys, odd-jobs fix-this-or-that people, and occasional painters and electricians.

But, unless I get to the point that I cannot climb one flight of stairs or the wife kicks me out, I ain't movin'. It is SO cool to get up on a spring or summer or fall morning, go out on the front porch that is semi-masked with some sort of evergreen vegetation (the kind that has the tiny blue balls on it, whatever that is), has a great view across, up and down the street full of tall, medium and diverse types of trees, yards with lots of colorful flowers in their yards, birds chirping as they dash in/out of your gentle sprinkling of the lawn as I sit on my good-sized porch reading the morning paper hoping thinking that maybe this will be the day with a few good stories in it (I typically go to the business section to see if brother Steve has anything new to say, and then to sports, and then to the rest) as I sip my morning coffee and smoking my cigarette and have a morning chat with my wife (which usually only occurs on weekends), I'm as content with where I live as those cardinals and robins satisfy ing their small needs in the gentle sprinkler on my wife's flower garden. It's also nice to watch the walkers, joggers, and dog-walkers as they do their morning routines. And, when I want, I can crank up my magnificent manly-man charcoal grill in the afternoon for some great tasting steaks. Ahh ... Sure, the kitchen needs a complete makeover and will never be up to snuff with either of the apartment or condo kitchen photos above, there is simply not enough space for that. For me, that's not a problem.

But, I can easily see where many would prefer to opt-out of those sorts of things and keep home expense simple, and these kinds of projects may be just what they are looking for.

Doug, I love all your stuff you do in OKC. I hate to burst your Bubble, but aren't they supposed to put some kind of recycling landfill near MP and HH?

You may bethinking of the old goodrich location that goodwill wanted to locate. That is a dead project that will not be happening at that location.

Any real estate 101 class states condos are the worst investment one can make.. Might as well buy a mobile home and park it by the river..

I was taught not to look at my home as an investment. Buy one you can enjoy in a location you love. If you make money.....great. If you don't, you've had pleasure living in it. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in our lifetime on cars, which lose value over their lifetime, vacations, which give you only memories, electronics, etc. Why not a home?

I was taught not to look at my home as an investment. Buy one you can enjoy in a location you love. If you make money.....great. If you don't, you've had pleasure living in it. We spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in our lifetime on cars, which lose value over their lifetime, vacations, which give you only memories, electronics, etc. Why not a home?

Because, if you do it right, you do make money. I've made money on every home I've owned. They were all extremely modest and any upgrades I pretty much did myself (retile bathroom/kitchen, wood floors, etc.). Cars don't have to lose alot of money if you live by some rules; buy no newer than 3-4 years, pay cash, get a good price (from an individual in most cases) and have some luck. I just sold my Jeep Liberty Renegade and after two years I still sold it for what I paid for it. I got a used Edge and the trade-in is higher than I paid. Also, there is a difference between buying a $400,000 trendy 'condo' and hoping to make money on the sell and a modest $100K home with low upkeep and taxes. Our friends in Deep Deuce are like us and hate to move and have no plans to move from their place any time in the near/distant future (but I personally would not spend $750K even for my lifetime home). We plan to move one more time, so we will most likely choose the downtown area.

1. If cheapest lifestyle is the objective, downtown many not be the right answer
2. There is no guarantee that homes will be a positive investment...just ask Californians. However, supply and demand ultimately drives pricing, so if you are in an area with demand increasing faster than supply then prices will go up.

1. If cheapest lifestyle is the objective, downtown many not be the right answer
2. There is no guarantee that homes will be a positive investment...just ask Californians. However, supply and demand ultimately drives pricing, so if you are in an area with demand increasing faster than supply then prices will go up.

We've lived cheaply most of our lives so we could pay cash for a nice home in our later years (now, 40's) and not have to worry about making a house payment on a $400K home as we get older. I personally don't see how anyone could buy a new place downtown at current prices and consider it an 'investment.'

Doug, I think you have Junipurs.

We've lived cheaply most of our lives so we could pay cash for a nice home in our later years (now, 40's) and not have to worry about making a house payment on a $400K home as we get older. I personally don't see how anyone could buy a new place downtown at current prices and consider it an 'investment.'

Perhaps we don't. If it happens, great. If not, we're unlikely to lose money. In the meantime, we've got a higher quality lifestyle if you are interested in walkability and being closer to downtown activities. Instead of watching the grass grow, I'm watching the Devon tower and the Level apartments grow. And saving so much on utilities, taxes, water, insurance, pool maintenance and yard services that we paid for a 3 week trip to Africa last year and this year are using the savings for a 3 week trip to SE Asia. It works for me.

Doug, I love all your stuff you do in OKC. I hate to burst your Bubble, but aren't they supposed to put some kind of recycling landfill near MP and HH?
Thanks and I hadn't heard that ... but perhaps you mean the Mercy development? Just kidding ...