http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/union082117.jpg

Amazing pic, Pete. Are you using a drone, or what?

Amazing pic, Pete. Are you using a drone, or what?

Yes, a drone. It's great fun.

The station will make for a great focal point across that sea of green. Can't wait to see the park done.

$10 in MAPS funds is being sought to renovate Union Station through the MAPS 3 Parks subcommittee.

For some odd reason, Union Station was completely left out of the park plans when everything was budgeted. There is an issue where the city recevied a federal grant for some renovations which somewhat restricts the use of the building for transit, which is a big reason COTPA is HQ'd there. So, that issue would have to be dealt with in some manner.

This is all part of a process where the MAPS 3 Board will evaluate various requests for allocation of MAPS 3 overage resulting from higher than expected sales tax collections.

Thus far the asks are:

Parks (Union Station) $10,000,000.00
Senior Health and Welness Centers $15,320,900.00
Transit / Modern Streetcar $7,698,820.00
State Fairgrounds $9,701,825.00
River $7,941,780.00

Trails and Sidewalks and Convention Center committees have yet to name a sum.

Also, a couple of weeks ago the River subcommittee was already awarded $759,000.


That puts the total at $51.4 million for an estimated $32MM in extra funds.

Spokies HQ is now in Santa Fe Station, and I _thought_ my last conversation with an Embark person indicated they were all moving to Santa Fe. When I was last there, what was going to be an event room had office furniture in it.

Way back in 2013, Hargreaves (the contracted designer for the park) suggested the following for Union Station, although all work was completely outside the park budget at that time.


• Planning/funding for Union Station: For Union Station to achieve its potential as the iconic architectural heart of the Downtown Public Park, it must be revitalized with park-supportive programming. The City should engage in additional analysis to advance this project, including confirmation of redevelopment and programming viability, and identification of capital funds for acquisition (if necessary), construction, and operations. Renovations should be coordinated with Phase 2 park improvements.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/unionstation072618a.jpg

$10 in MAPS funds is being sought to renovate Union Station through the MAPS 3 Parks subcommittee.

For some odd reason, Union Station was completely left out of the park plans when everything was budgeted. There is an issue where the city recevied a federal grant for some renovations which somewhat restricts the use of the building for transit, which is a big reason COTPA is HQ'd there. So, that issue would have to be dealt with in some manner.

This is all part of a process where the MAPS 3 Board will evaluate various requests for allocation of MAPS 3 overage resulting from higher than expected sales tax collections.

Thus far the asks are:

Parks (Union Station) $10,000,000.00
Senior Health and Welness Centers $15,320,900.00
Transit / Modern Streetcar $7,698,820.00
State Fairgrounds $9,701,825.00
River $7,941,780.00

Trails and Sidewalks and Convention Center committees have yet to name a sum.

Also, a couple of weeks ago the River subcommittee was already awarded $759,000.


That puts the total at $51.4 million for an estimated $32MM in extra funds.

The NewsOK article talks about how the City is trying to figure out how to ease the use restrictions on the building, imposed by the Feds when the City bought the building using a mass transit grant. OKC really needs to be careful what they do here. I fully believe there will be a time in the not-too-distant future where Union Station will be pressed back into use for transportation needs... Either for an east-west commuter corridor or possibly inter-city passenger rail.

^^^

I saw that article in the Oklahoman. I was wondering if it would even be an option to repay the federal grant (I don't remember what it was, but for some reason $1.5M is in my head) and get out from under the obligation to use it for transportation related purposes?

The NewsOK article talks about how the City is trying to figure out how to ease the use restrictions on the building, imposed by the Feds when the City bought the building using a mass transit grant. OKC really needs to be careful what they do here. I fully believe there will be a time in the not-too-distant future where Union Station will be pressed back into use for transportation needs... Either for an east-west commuter corridor or possibly inter-city passenger rail.

That ship has sailed. Union station no longer has a transit use

That ship has sailed. Union station no longer has a transit use

Why?

That ship has sailed. Union station no longer has a transit use

Emphatically disagree. There is enough room in the rail trench along I-40 for at least one platform, by design, and a parking garage that could serve the station is still eventually expected to fill the remaining open space between the Streetcar Maintenance Facility and Union Station. Engineering, cost, and/or right-of-way challenges may prevent the eastern connection to Santa Fe Station for inter-city passenger rail (i.e. Karchmer Garage), and there is no viable way for trains from the west (on the UP corridor, anyway) to get to Santa Fe Station without considerable cost and disruption to the BNSF corridor. As central Oklahoma continues to grow, and after the north-south commuter line from Edmond to Norman gets going, there is a high likelihood that a commuter line from the western suburbs like Yukon to possibly as far east as Shawnee will eventually be necessary along the UP corridor, and Union Station will be the only viable economic choice for this service. While any such development may be 10-20 years out, it's important to make absolutely sure that accomodations are planned for well in advance so that it can happen when needed.

Why?

Because after multiple studies. The sant fe station was selected as our intermodal transit hub. We have spend millions on it already and the master hub plan. http://www.acogok.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/hubreport.pdf Provides a buildout and use for the next 50+ years It provides conections to the east north and south. Plus an easy connection to the airport and possibley mustang.

The recent commuter corridor study identified brt/light rail as the favored mode of transit to the northwest. So that is not an issue


Union station has been looked at for transit and it has been decided that it is not the best choice.

Because of access and location.

There is a lot more info I can provide if you wish. But as I said union station is no longer a transit asset

That ship has sailed. Union station no longer has a transit use

Also, I like your transit themed idiom!

Well it still has the potential to be a commuter stop at least. Once the park is done, it wouldn't be a terrible stop location. It won't be an awesome one either because of where it is, but i guess we'll see. I think the only hope this place has of surviving will be as an event hall.

Well it still has the potential to be a commuter stop at least. Once the park is done, it wouldn't be a terrible stop location. It won't be an awesome one either because of where it is, but i guess we'll see. I think the only hope this place has of surviving will be as an event hall.

Right! I wasn't trying to say that Union Station needs to be Intermodal Transit SuperUltraMegaHub 2.0 or anything like that; it's potential to become anything like what is planned for Santa Fe Station was unfortunately cut short when ODOT routed the I-40 realignment through where all of the passenger platforms used to be. Instead, I'm simply saying that it does still have great potential to play a future role in a transit-related use, most likely as a commuter stop on an E-W commuter line following the UP corridor, or possibly as an inter-city rail stop if something happens to prevent the eastern connection through Bricktown to Santa Fe Station. While it may not play that role for a while, it's in the best interest of the City to ensure that Union Station (or at least parts of it) can be pressed back into a transit-related use if it is deemed necessary. And I'm also not saying that it shouldn't be used for anything else in the interim - if we've got a use for the building, great! Let's make it work! But we really should keep an eye to the future so that the building can also accommodate a passenger/commuter rail use if it ends up being needed for that role.

Item on city council agenda next Tuesday to contract with GSB, Inc. to study the possible renovation of Union Station.

The other two finalists not chosen were ADG and GH2.




Purpose: To provide a study with recommendations and cost estimates to program and renovate the Union Station, located at SW 7th and Hudson Avenue
near the south edge of the new MAPS 3 Scissortail Park.

Background: The Public Works Department submitted the names of three firms for this project to the Consultant Review Committee for consideration and
prepared a report of the Committee’s findings and a tabulation of thefirms that submitted letters of interest on the project.

Architect: GSB, Inc.

Conceptual plan for Union Station, using $10 million of excess MAPS 3 money that has already been allocated.

Architect is GSB.

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As a side note, that first image was the cover of the presentation.

Which was lifted directly from OKCTalk (see upthread).

Pete any idea yet on how they plan to transfer it from Federal ownership?

Love those renderings and is one of the places I am most excited about getting some love. This will be an amazing space.

It's such an incredible structure and many of the original elements remain, like the old ticket windows and terrazzo floors.

You can go in during business hours. Check in at the COTPA desk (the only people in there) and they should let you wander around. They have some old photos posted.

But in the main waiting room there is a terrible structure in the middle, but that looks to be built on top of the original floors and isn't tied into anything historic.

I'll have to go in and check it out thanks Pete!

Some of these renderings remind me of Union Station in St. Louis. If we could capture half of Union Station St. Louis we will have quite a gem!

Plans to renovate historic Union Station move forward (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=617-Plans-to-renovate-historic-Union-Station-move-forward)

On Wednesday, the Parks Subcommittee of the MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board reviewed a preliminary report regarding the next steps in the proposed Union Station renovation.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/unionstation052219a.jpg


Earlier this year, the MAPS 3 Board voted to allocation $10 million in excess sales tax collection to the project.

Union Station opened in 1930 and was once a bustling passenger railway station but has been virtually unused for decades, apart from serving as the current home for the Central Oklahoma Transporation and Parking Authority.

The 55,000 square foot structure sits at the southern end of Scissortail Park which is scheduled to be complete this fall.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/unionstation052219.jpg


Architects GSB presented a plan that would include a park welcome center and gift shop, a cafe, event halls, a history center, conference and meeting rooms, a classroom, tenant spaces, commercial kitchen, restrooms and offices for park administration.

The centerpiece would be the former main waiting room and its soaring, coffered ceilings which would be converted to a multipurpose room and used for a variety of events. Under the plan, the old train ticket windows would serve as a bar and the hanging art deco light fixtures would be restored in what would be titled East Hall. (First rendering above depicts the new space with the original waiting room shown below.)


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/unionstation030119e.jpg

A small cafe would occupy what was once a large area outside the east restrooms and include outdoor seating on the large covered patio and on the North Plaza in a new patio area on the site on a current circle drive just to the south of the new park lake.

Under the plan a marble-lined tunnel that once led to train tracks would be leveled and used for small gatherings.


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Part of the south docks – once used primarily for mail delivery – would be converted to another multipurpose hall.


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Outside, the nicely preserved structure would get new lighting to provide a focal for park visitors. Extensive landscaping would replace the east parking area and help connect the station to the park itself.

The total cost of the project is over $29 million.


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That's a really interesting plan. Since it is so close to the new Convention Center, if you look at this as basically being a convention center annex with additional, conveniently located meeting spaces it makes a lot of sense. Tighter integration between the convention experience and the park, too.

I wonder if that is how this will be used.

I'm sure this will become a top wedding venue in OKC

I'm sure this will become a top wedding venue in OKC

yep and also for charity events ...

This is going to be really nice. My question is, how will the additional $19 million to complete the project be funded ?

I'm sure this will become a top wedding venue in OKC

Note they have a bride's room on the plans.


However, I know from people who own popular wedding venues that that market is getting very fragmented. Most have seen their wedding business go down significantly in the last 5 years or so.

This will take another slice out of that pie.

This is going to be really nice. My question is, how will the additional $19 million to complete the project be funded ?

Very good question.

Only $10M has been allocated from MAPS. Plus, I'm surprised at that very high total.

BTW, the rendering of the former waiting room conversion shows carpet.

There is an amazing terrazzo floor in there now that seems to be completely intact. It would be a shame to just cover it up.

Something else of interest: Just a few years ago the city got a grant to redo the parking and drives on the building's perimeter and put in completely new concrete.

Under this plan, most of it would be ripped up and I wonder if some of that money may need to be returned.

Note they have a bride's room on the plans.


However, I know from people who own popular wedding venues that that market is getting very fragmented. Most have seen their wedding business go down significantly in the last 5 years or so.

This will take another slice out of that pie.

i will say as someone that has currently been looking the good venues stay completley full on friday sat and sunday .. for more than a year in advance ..

there are quite a few second or third tier venues that are open some of the time ..

^

I would guess that is only for a few months out of the year.

^

I would guess that is only for a few months out of the year.

take coles garden for example they have no friday saturdays or sundays for the rest of this year .. as in booked full from may -december

^

That is one venue and by far the most popular for weddings.

I do a lot of events and had no problem finding availability at the Myriad Gardens (former Park House) on a Saturday night in the summer, and that was only a few months out. I'm sure May and June are busy but the rest of the year, not so much. And we are talking about one night per week.

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but what is the plan for getting out of the transportation function requirements that (I believe) were part of the federal grant the building received in the past?

Sorry if this has already been addressed, but what is the plan for getting out of the transportation function requirements that (I believe) were part of the federal grant the building received in the past?

Yeah, I don't know how they plan to get around that issue.

I have mixed feelings about this, and I'm quite sure it's because of my personal bias towards wanting to return Union Station to a transit use (even though I know, regrettably, that ship has long since sailed). That said, objectively, this appears to be a very nice idea for adaptive reuse of Union Station. I do appreciate that even though they plan to level out the floor in the train hall, they aren't completely removing access to the doors to the old tunnel - the plans show that there will be a staircase down and a small area to get back in there. I'm not sure of the condition of the tunnel beyond those doors today, but if there is still open space beyond those doors, that area could still be pressed into use for a storm shelter or something. In any event, I too hope they keep the terrazzo floors in the waiting rooms.

I also have to wonder about the federal grant money that COTPA received in 1989 to purchase Union Station. I understand that money was contingent on the station remaining in a transit-related use. Since that was 30 years ago, do any of the Federal Transit Administration restrictions still apply to this property? If so, will that grant need to be paid back to the FTA?

Currently, there is storage space behind those tunnel doors. I may have photos somewhere.

But of course, the tunnel once ran under the tracks and to the far south side platform. That was all removed when they built I-40 where multiple train tracks had been located.

Found this old image from 2008 that shows the tracks; the tunnel would have run all the way to the far south side. You can see the path by the 3 large skylights at the station.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uniontracks1.jpg

Here is a photo I took in 2008 of the old tracks; now feels like a million years ago.

I remember coming back to OKC and spending the better part of an afternoon poking around the inside of Union Station and being in awe. I had never been in there before and I had no idea how cool it was. Will be great to draw in the public because people will be shocked.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uniontracks2.jpg

And again from March 2008, I took this along Harvey just north of Union Station; the old post office was to the left. This spot is now in the middle of the Scissortail lake.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail2008.jpg

And here is the view out the front of Union Station from 2008 before the post office was demolished.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail2008b.jpg

I also have to wonder about the federal grant money that COTPA received in 1989 to purchase Union Station. I understand that money was contingent on the station remaining in a transit-related use. Since that was 30 years ago, do any of the Federal Transit Administration restrictions still apply to this property? If so, will that grant need to be paid back to the FTA?

Well, it ceased having any true transportation function when the federally paid for interstate which had to meet federal transportation standards was approved and built. So take that Feds! You helped break your own laws!

Seriously, I wonder if as long as some kind of transportation related agency has an office there its technically meeting that requirement.

Seriously, I wonder if as long as some kind of transportation related agency has an office there its technically meeting that requirement.

Yes, that is why COTPA is/was located there.

Not sure they still have people there or not.

Currently, there is storage space behind those tunnel doors. I may have photos somewhere.

But of course, the tunnel once ran under the tracks and to the far south side platform. That was all removed when they built I-40 where multiple train tracks had been located.

Found this old image from 2008 that shows the tracks; the tunnel would have run all the way to the far south side. You can see the path by the 3 large skylights at the station.

Yeah, I was aware that they removed most of the underground tunnel to the platforms when the platforms were ripped out for the I-40 realignment, but I just didn't know exactly how much of it was gone. Glad to hear at least some of it remains. I wonder if it still extends out under the last remaining track. Depending on just how much space is left down there, that could work really well as a storm shelter area too.


Well, it ceased having any true transportation function when the federally paid for interstate which had to meet federal transportation standards was approved and built. So take that Feds! You helped break your own laws!

Seriously, I wonder if as long as some kind of transportation related agency has an office there its technically meeting that requirement.

This is true. They did leave juuuuust enough room that a second track and a platform could conceivably be installed along the Union Pacific rails that remain today - so a transit use is still possible (albeit unlikely) if the need and political will were there - but yeah, the majority of the infrastructure that would allow the station to serve a modern transit use is gone due to the I-40 realignment.

Man, makes me kinda sad thinking about what we could have had if the stars had aligned. Union Station would have made a fantastic intermodal transportation hub, and helped pull downtown further south, if the City could have gotten the transit ball rolling back in the '80's and '90's.

Oh well. Still quite glad though that Union Station will see some love and be reopened to the public. It's an *amazing* building.

And again from March 2008, I took this along Harvey just north of Union Station; the old post office was to the left. This spot is now in the middle of the Scissortail lake.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail2008.jpg

Off topic, but it's amazing how much different downtown looked back then!

From what I recall, we were able to obtain a release from the Federal Transit Administration as they adopted Santa Fe Station as the preferred site for the Regional Transit Hub. And by contributing $14 million to that project, those glaring conflicts provided an easy case to make. I am not sure that if within the $19 million there were funds incorporated to pay them back if it was deemed necessary to do so. The price tag doesn't surprise me.

Yes, that is why COTPA is/was located there.

Not sure they still have people there or not.


My wife and I went down there the other day. COPTA has moved, bit we found an open door and poked around. Few businesses are there temporarily. It I a pretty cool place. Found an old sauna that firefighters put in when they used the building as a station, and this old time clock.

15309

15310

15311

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Such a cool structure...so much potential!

Every night starting at 6PM, there is a coordinated Christmas carol and light show on the front of Union Station.

It's very cool and worth a visit where you can see lots of other holiday decorations in Scissortail Park.

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Is it a constantly repeating "show" or is it at the bottom and top of the hour, or what?

Is it a constantly repeating "show" or is it at the bottom and top of the hour, or what?

It's continuous and features a bunch of different songs and coordinated light displays.

It was freezing cold last night so I only was out there for 4 or so but I know there are a bunch.

It's very cool and worthwhile, especially if you want to stroll through the park and see all the decorations.

Very cool, will have to check it out! Thanks for the info!

Your pictures are stunning, Pete.

I have to confess I saw photos from another source that weren't as good, making Union Station look like a tacky new location for Medieval Times.

I went last night just to get out of the house despite the cold. It was surprisingly captivating and impressive. That, along with the rest of the park lights and convention center lights, make for a pretty cool scene worth seeing.

^

And the sound system setup is pretty darn good.