Any thoughts or comments on the job they did on Reno? I was looking at some pictures and it doesn't seem to include bicycle lanes, though I hope I'm wrong.

Spatan: the map I downloaded dated 8/21/10 (sorry, don't know from where or how to upload it, but if you send me your email address in a PM, I can try sending it to you if you want)...anyway, the map has Reno labeled but it is at the bottom of the map, and doesn't show any bike routes were planned (but may have just been "cut off")????

But it does show dedicated lane on the East side (Robinson) of MG, nothing on the west side (Hudson), a "Sharrow" (shared vehicle/bike) on the North edge (Sheridan)

Dedicated lanes on Sheridan (north edge of Stage Center) and West edge (Walker)

Reno is on the Phase II list of to be bike routes as unfunded (as of the 2008 Bike Transportation Plan), though I am not sure where they are at in Phase I or if that will be done in the next decade. Most of the Phase I routes in downtown are north/south, Sheritan, 4th & 6th are the only ones south of 10th in Phase I for downtown. If it will be shared lane in that section they may be holding off signing it that way till after the Boulevard is completed.

In one of the past transportation subcommittee meetings, I remember they were going from the small lane on the side of the road to having them take the entire right lane (I think more so where cars parallel park) since they have had some issues with the narrow lane is not a normal place people expect to need to look before turns and pulling out from parallel parking, also cyclists were being obscured by other vehicles which has lead to auto on bike accidents.

Interestingly, there isn't really a standard place to expect bicyclists in Europe either, other than to just expect them in general. I really think OKC could be a great bicycling city when you consider how flat the city center is, which bodes well for that. Wish they'd be more aggressive in implementing those.

In Amsterdam I've come to appreciate the system where the bicycle lane is always between the street parking and the sidewalk, basically it's own sidewalk. In Copenhagen they have a separate network of "bicycle roads" that cut through parks, waterfronts, forests, buildings, etc..and the bicycle roads have their own traffic signals. It's really cool.

I recognize it seems unlikely that bicycling will ever emerge as a serious transportation mode in Oklahoma, but ideally that would be the absolute best thing to happen, just for what it does for health, urban planning, quality of life, recreation, and integrating many other objectives at once.

It just seems crazy that here we have a city that is spending countless millions all at once to redo every downtown street, and apparently they did not even look at possible future trends. If they had an entire area of the city with bicycling infrastructure people would have eventually started to use their bicycles to get around, especially as more people move downtown. I just don't understand how Reno, especially going in front of a park, doesn't get bicycle infrastructure while Film Row does. Obviously there is still NO real plan to integrate bicycle traffic into traffic modes, which is discouraging for anyone who got their hopes up when they saw the one Film Row bicycle lane.

I just lookd at the Project 180 Bike Diagram and nearly every street in P180 will have a dedicated 5 foot bike lane on both sides of the street.

http://www.okc.gov/project180/trafficdiagram.pdf

It's looking spectacular, I will tell you that. I'll try to get high res pics this week.

Alright thanks metro, I'll await those pics..

And Kerry, Larry is right that the downtown core does seem to be mostly excluded from bike lanes. It's especially odd that not even Hudson or Robinson will have any kind of bike lanes.

Project180 thinks that "sharrow" lanes will do on most of the downtown streets apparently. :-(

Robinson will have the streetcar, so maybe that's why. There are plenty of main streets in NYC with no bike lanes.

In Amsterdam I've come to appreciate the system where the bicycle lane is always between the street parking and the sidewalk, basically it's own sidewalk. In Copenhagen they have a separate network of "bicycle roads" that cut through parks, waterfronts, forests, buildings, etc..and the bicycle roads have their own traffic signals. It's really cool.

The 2008 plans diagrams had the ones running with streets that have parking between the right most street lane and the parked car lane, if it had been outside the parked cars next to the curb it might not have been as much of an issue.

Kerry: thanks for posting the link. It isn't exactly the same document I have but presume they are very similar (both were produced by OJB)

Alright thanks metro, I'll await those pics..

And Kerry, Larry is right that the downtown core does seem to be mostly excluded from bike lanes. It's especially odd that not even Hudson or Robinson will have any kind of bike lanes.

When did I say that? Looks to me that the vast majority of the Project 180 has bike paths with the majority of those being dedicated (mostly east/west) with the "sharrow" ones being mostly north/south

Spatan: the map I downloaded dated 8/21/10 (sorry, don't know from where or how to upload it, but if you send me your email address in a PM, I can try sending it to you if you want)...anyway, the map has Reno labeled but it is at the bottom of the map, and doesn't show any bike routes were planned (but may have just been "cut off")????

But it does show dedicated lane on the East side (Robinson) of MG, nothing on the west side (Hudson), a "Sharrow" (shared vehicle/bike) on the North edge (Sheridan)

Dedicated lanes on Sheridan (north edge of Stage Center) and West edge (Walker)

Ah, indeed you didn't say "the downtown core won't have much in the way of bicycle lanes" but this is what I was referring to.

Sharrows are all the rage in Santa Fe, Portland and Seattle. There, that should change a few opinions.

What is a sharrow?

What is a sharrow?
A sharrow or 'shared lane marking (SLM)' is a pavement marking installed on streets popular with bicyclists but too narrow for conventional bike lanes. The sharrow is installed 11 feet from the curb, or approximately 4 feet from parked cars. It is intended to indicate where bicyclists should ride to avoid traveling within the door zone of parked cars. It also alerts motorists to share the road with bicyclists and conveys that the street is a preferred bike route.

http://streetswiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/sharrow-bikelane.jpg/128158169/sharrow-bikelane.jpg


Sharrows are all the rage in Santa Fe, Portland and Seattle. There, that should change a few opinions.

OKC has actually been putting these in. The most recent example I can think of is on Hefner between the Hefner Parkway and Western I believe. They make sense, but I don't know how safe they are for actual bikers since half the people in this town don't realize that bikers also have a right to use the pavement.

OKC has actually been putting these in. The most recent example I can think of is on Hefner between the Hefner Parkway and Western I believe. They make sense, but I don't know how safe they are for actual bikers since half the people in this town don't realize that bikers also have a right to use the pavement.

While reading up on them on Portland and Seattle bike discussion boards, the purpose of the painted markers is to inform drivers that Yes - the bikes are supposed to be there. They have been well received by bikers in Pacific NW. Portland is adding 90 sharrow (share with an arrow) lanes a week and will soon have over 3000 of them.

Take my comment with a grain of salt as I do not know much about what/where the "sharrow" lanes are.

But, with that said, I remember Andrea French talking about how the bike lanes will be specifically different colored concrete than the rest of the street. And I don't mean paint on the surface. They are actually mixing coloring into the concrete and scoring lines to further delineate the lane from vehicle lanes.

And it really is happening because I have seen this narrow lane on some of the finished P180 street sections. Hope that helps.

UP - those are dedicted bike lanes. A sharrow is a losely defined section of the road that the bikes are supposed to ride in. The on-pavement markings let the bikes know where they are supposed to be and reminds the driver that it is okay for the bikes to be there. Look at it this way. It is the difference between the streetcar having a dedicaed right of way vs sharing a lane with traffic. The shared portion is called a sharrow, or in the case of the streetcar I guess it would be called a shrail.

http://streetswiki.wikispaces.com/file/view/sharrow-bikelane.jpg/128158169/sharrow-bikelane.jpg

Did anyone else laugh at the reminder in the lane marker to wear a helmet?

you would need a helmet too if you were trying to balance the jumbo, oversized open books on your head while riding your bike...LOL

Sharrows are all the rage in Santa Fe, Portland and Seattle. There, that should change a few opinions.

I like sharrow lanes. So why won't there be any on Hudson, for example?

I like sharrow lanes. So why won't there be any on Hudson, for example?

I think Hudson will be the only four lane road left on that side of downtown. It is the only street in project 180 that doesn't have a bike lane or sharrow.

Does anyone really know that the deal is with Hudson?

I suspect it has more to do with budget issues, and utility relocation that would be required to deal with Hudson.

Still NO reason to not restripe the pavement and still work on the streetscape a little bit.

Project180 thinks that "sharrow" lanes will do on most of the downtown streets apparently. :-(

If true, that is a MAJOR disappointment. It is amazing how much hype we read in the Oklahoman about planned city projects and what they actually become when completed.

If true, that is a MAJOR disappointment. It is amazing how much hype we read in the Oklahoman about planned city projects and what they actually become when completed.

After looking more closely at the plans, it looks like there is actually an equal amount, and maybe even more, of true bicycle lanes compared to "sharrow" markings.

Sorry about that mistake.

mcca7596: That was my take on it too. But the map does bring up a curious question. Is there some reason most of the dedicated lanes are east/west and most of the sharrow lanes are north/south? Are east west streets wider or something?

Good question; I wonder if they knew that the streetcar would follow a general north-south route and therefore didn't want to have that interference (since the bike lanes require uniquely colored concrete that obviously would be harder to replace rather than just repainting/resizing road markers)

That doesn't make sense for all north-south though. And I doubt that kind of foresight anyway.

Spartan, have to admit I was thinking the same thing... probably just a coincidence (sort of like when they were picking people from the trusts etc to serve on the Alliance, they ended up with no ethnic or geographical diversity).

Yeah, they weren't even able to coordinate with the MAPS3 streetcar subcommittee until the first phase of P180 was already underway, and at the last possible minute before they began the second phase. There was definitely not any streetcar foresight given into P180.

I agree...thats why i was asking if maybe there was an actual reason behind the mostly east/west, north/south thing (like wider streets) or if it just turned out that way.

any more pics, for us expats?

Not much to look at yet, but it sure is nice. I posted some of Film Row in the Film Row thread and Reno in the MBG thread, not really any other streets done yet, I may snap the Memorial street soon.

thanks for looking out, Metro.

Does anyone really know that the deal is with Hudson?

I suspect it has more to do with budget issues, and utility relocation that would be required to deal with Hudson.

Still NO reason to not restripe the pavement and still work on the streetscape a little bit.

Hmmm.. I really think there may be a layer missing on the PDF or something... I would bet there is a sharrow at the least.

I recognize it seems unlikely that bicycling will ever emerge as a serious transportation mode in Oklahoma, but ideally that would be the absolute best thing to happen, just for what it does for health, urban planning, quality of life, recreation, and integrating many other objectives at once.

Oh but 20 years ago, who thought it likely Oklahoma would have world-class boathouses, a thriving Bricktown area, and an NBA team! Wonders never cease, and I agree that bicycling around Downtown OKC would be pretty sweet! Of course, I have to get off the couch first... ooouuuhhhffff!

Maybe this is the wrong place to ask this, but I thought I'd ask it here. Are there plans to narrow Reno in Bricktown once the new boulevard goes in? It seems like narrowing the street, perhaps turning the outer lanes into parking, would be a good thing for walkability in the area.

I sure hope not. Reno is already congested enough as it is with Oklahoma Avenue and Mickey Mantle Dr. I know it works with Sheridan, but there is more traffic coming east of Lincoln into Bricktown. Don't need that to be wedged down to two lanes! JMHO...

Yes there are plans to narrow Reno through Bricktown. A raised median and on-street parking are in the works.

Maybe this is the wrong place to ask this, but I thought I'd ask it here. Are there plans to narrow Reno in Bricktown once the new boulevard goes in? It seems like narrowing the street, perhaps turning the outer lanes into parking, would be a good thing for walkability in the area.

I believe this is something that was proposed/recommended in the Bricktown Strategic Plan presented to Council a few months ago.

http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=27547&highlight=bricktown+strategic+plan

Yes there are plans to narrow Reno through Bricktown. A raised median and on-street parking are in the works.

Well, thank god I don't go to Bricktown anymore AND no need to remind me not to park there if I want to be stuck in downtown OKC on Thunder game nights anymore. Worst plan ever...

Well, thank god I don't go to Bricktown anymore AND no need to remind me not to park there if I want to be stuck in downtown OKC on Thunder game nights anymore. Worst plan ever...

If it actually happens, it will be one of the best things for Bricktown ever. It will provide city-owned parking, which will cut into the business of the parking operators and help more empty lots be developed. It will also be great for pedestrians.

It won't belong until downtown is designed for the people that live there and not the people that drive in for special events.

If it actually happens, it will be one of the best things for Bricktown ever. It will provide city-owned parking, which will cut into the business of the parking operators and help more empty lots be developed. It will also be great for pedestrians.

Yep.

It won't belong until downtown is designed for the people that live there and not the people that drive in for special events.

Yep

And in a few years some people may actually start using public transportation when going to those events instead of driving.

Well, thank god I don't go to Bricktown anymore AND no need to remind me not to park there if I want to be stuck in downtown OKC on Thunder game nights anymore. Worst plan ever...

This made me think of some news I was reading today. Get this: they moved this main thoroughfare south and are going to replace the old thoroughfare with a smaller capacity one and maybe street parking. Everyone hates it!

No complaints there...

Yes there are plans to narrow Reno through Bricktown. A raised median and on-street parking are in the works.

I hope you are joking, because that is a very bad idea. Reno! Seriously, guess what is on Reno. We have the Thunderdome, Cox Convention Center, MBG, and some other places within the Downtown core. Now look at Bricktown, so many main attractions on that street. So, what is Thunder's official stance on this? Don't ever do it. Narrowing a major street/road in this day and age is a major joke. Why? There are more cars, there are more people, there are more traffic, and there are more of everything, so lets not cause out-of-control situations intentionally worse. What we have now still does not solve the congestion and narrowing a major artery will be combustive.

I don't know how much distance in between Reno and Thunder Blvd (I'm hoping it will be named that) will be, but I am confident that it can all be done successfully without the quoted disaster. The new Thunder Blvd do not have to be paved so near Reno.

(Hoping city leaders are reading this. Please don't fail us.)

If it actually happens, it will be one of the best things for Bricktown ever. It will provide city-owned parking, which will cut into the business of the parking operators and help more empty lots be developed. It will also be great for pedestrians.

the city owns all the the big lots in bricktown .. (the one just south of reno next to the tracks for example) ... the city leases them to the parking operators ..

if the city want city owned or free parking they could just take those lots back

Seriously, guess what is on Reno. We have the Thunderdome, Cox Convention Center, MBG, and some other places within the Downtown core.

Not in Bricktown, not really applicable here.


There are more cars, there are more people, there are more traffic, and there are more of everything, so lets not cause out-of-control situations intentionally worse.

There will be fewer cars and less traffic because of the new boulevard. Don't want to "cause out-of-control situation intentionally worse"? Then control traffic by limiting capacity in this high pedestrian area and make the boulevard the preferred route.


Thunder Blvd (I'm hoping it will be named that)

No.

Im all for them narrowing this street if they block it off at Oklahoma Avenue and extend the canal over to MBG.

They make sense, but I don't know how safe they are for actual bikers since half the people in this town don't realize that bikers also have a right to use the pavement.

Responding to a very old quote here, but I'll say this as a guy that rides a bike a lot(Biker usually refers to motorcycles): Sharrows can work on smaller, slower streets. A sharrow on Hefner road, which is a 45 mph road with no shoulders or turn lane doesn't work. I ride almost daily on a small section of Britton(over 235 for about 1/4 mile) and it's the most nerve wracking part of my day. A high traffic, fast road with no shoulder is a pretty scary place to be. There's a huge difference between 30 and 45 when it's a car about 6 inches from your left hand.