Ok, let's set all of this straight, once and for all.

1) The team is called the Oklahoma City Thunder, because Oklahoma City business men are owners, paid cash to purchase and move the team, and took all of the risk for the sole purpose to bring a major league team to Oklahoma City. The team is also called Oklahoma City Thunder because the city of Oklahoma City and it's residents took a risk on building (and retrofiting/expanding) Ford Center and practice center. No state dollars were used for the purchase or construction, and the state is only missing a small portion of the tax it would otherwise receive from the Thunder and other NBA players.

To my knowledge, Tulsa didn't give anything up nor did Tulsa participate in anything other than the final presentation ON AN INVITATION from Oklahoma City's mayor to ENHANCE the relocation request (since some people voiced concern about OKC's long term committment). We'll talk about this more in a later point. Just because Tulsa built an arena after the fact and are a NEAR million CSA doesn't somehow entitle them to home games of the Thunder.

2) You are so incorrect in your assumption that naming the team Oklahoma City somehow alienates Tulsa from having/developing a fanbase. Case in point, Wichita KS - is a satellite city of the OKC Thunder with a growing base. Are they upset at the name? Is Lawton and Enid upset at the name? Is OKC having trouble filling the arena?

Spokane and Tacoma people supported the Seattle SuperSonics (as did Vancouver BC people before they got the Grizzlies) arguably more than even the citizens of Seattle. They also heavily support the other SEATTLE named major league teams and so does Portland and the whole state of Oregon. In fact, all major teams in Washington are named for Seattle, are the other cities in that state alienated by this?. Is Colorado Springs alienated by Denver's sports teams? Is Nashville alienated that the Grizzlies are named Memphis? What about San Antonio, does Austin not support that team? I could go on, but you should get the point now - saying a smaller city in the state is alienated due to the team being named for it's home base (and largest) city doesn't hold water.

I do agree that the Thunder could do more to market the team in Tulsa, but they should do it via their D-LEAGUE team that the same OKC businessmen who own the Thunder gave to Tulsa and named them after Tulsa. The Thunder could also make packages on Tulsa's cable if they aren't already and make promotional tourist packages if they aren't filling the Ford Center for games. This is ditto for Wichita KS, which I understand the Thunder is doing some marketing and there is huge support. They could also open up a store, but all of the merch would be OKC Thunder because that is the team name.

3) Oklahoma Sooners is already synonomous (sp?) with the name 'Oklahoma'. So if we had the 'Oklahoma Thunder', it could cause problems with the Sooners - which most people outside of Oklahoma call OU as, 'Oklahoma' moreso than Sooners or OU.

4) If the team were named, Oklahoma Thunder, don't you think that might just alienate OSU fans who can't stand any reference that could be tied to OU? Im not trying to start anything with this point, other that to point out that basing the team in Oklahoma City was a wonderful idea for pulling together the state.

5) As mentioned before, Tulsa has a D-League team that is the affiliate of the Thunder. Tulsa also has the WNBA now, also owned by OKC investors if Im not mistaken (but different from Bennett and company). There is no reason to share regular season games with Tulsa and this is not done in the rest of the league. Should we also have a regular season game in Wichita KS? They have a nice new arena and a nice fanbase of the team.

I do agree we should have at least one preseason home game in Tulsa on an annual basis, and perhaps also one preseason home game in Wichita at least every other year too.

6) Like it or not, Tulsa IS part of Oklahoma City's catchment market. In fact, NBA owners had some initial reservations with the OKC relocation; not because they thought OKC was too small and not because they didn't think there was interest in OKC. The New Orleans/Oklahoma City Hornets was a great opportunity to showcase Oklahoma City (and the state) while also helping the NBA given what happened to N.O. OKC has 580K+ residents and well over 1.35M in the CSA and tremendous corporate support and ownership, more than enough of the needed requirements to support a major league team on its own.

Nope, the reservations came from the city's market size. OKC's market is not like other major cities where there is a huge catchment area. OKC's market is basically just the current 405 area code + Enid and some of Western Oklahoma [roughly 1.6-1.8M people/700K tv sets]. However, this team came from a market much larger and more populated - Seattle's market covers nearly all of Western Washington, only excluding Clark County (which goes to Portland for NBA) [roughly 4.2M and 1.7M tv sets iirc].

This is not the case for OKC, the centre of the state ideally shoul have most of the state outside of the 918 traditional area code as its market (basically 2.5M people and probably 1.3M tv sets), but OKC's current market definition doesnt. Ada has its own market with Sherman. Ponca City is part of Wichita, I believe. The panhandle is part of Amarillo. Ardmore is part of Dallas, iirc. Lawton is part of Wichita Falls. E Oklahoma is part of Ft Smith and SE Oklahoma is part of Texarkana iirc. Im not saying that OKC should get all of these areas, but consider that Salt Lake's market is the entire state.

If OKC had most of the traditional old 405 area code on paper for its core market, along with 918 and Wichita's 316 as its natural catchment - then the owners would have had no reservation. But the fact that OKC doesn't have most of the state for its core market, making it arguably small in comparison raised a few eyebrows. That is the reason why Tulsa was invited to the presentation, to vouch that they would participate in the cable/marketing package. It wasn't required and OKC would have been awarded the team anyways (but it was a great opportunity to show solidarity and Im sure it made it much easier for Tulsa to get WNBA approval). They could have brought Wichita officials to the presentation as well, imo.

7) The fact that Stern had supported an Oklahoma named team doesn't mean it was the best fit to actually do so. In fact, Stern mainly did this because of OKC's small market size and NOT because he thought the team would otherwise alienate Tulsa. Stern was comparing the team to Salt Lake City, which uses Utah. But there are other small market teams using their base city (Memphis, New Orleans - both smaller markets than OKC btw) that don't alienate their home state or catchment, and given OKC's position as the region's #2 city after Dallas, Stern didn't realize marketing the team as a state team isn't necessary. If anything, it might have alienated Kansas/Wichita a bit whereas OKC does not.


I hope now you and other Tulsans can see, that there is NO way the name of the Oklahoma City Thunder alienates Tulsa from being a fanbase. If there are NBA fans up in Tulsa, they can chose to support the team or be a Bulls fan, Dallas fan, or whatever. They would still fall into OKC's catchment and likely have OKC marketing (which I assume is the case).

Also - The Oklahoma City Thunder has done wonders for the city AND STATE in that the team has brought positive spotlight to the city and the CITY represents the state of Oklahoma well - as it should, being the capital and largest city/metro. Tell me that does not have a spin effect on the rest of the state, when OKC's skyline, urban offerings, and TEAM is on national tv. ... Im in China, and I get to watch Thunder games and when people ask where I am from and I say OKC - there is instant recognition now. How is that not good for Oklahoma? (particularly since Oklahoma City carries the state name in its name, there's no need to say the state when you say Oklahoma City ... ...)

I think you and others up there, might be a bit jealous at the attention that Oklahoma City is getting; you think it should be Tulsa. If anything, I believe Tulsan's feel alienated not due to the name, but due to their continued inferiority complex and competitive/hatred of Oklahoma City - but that's another discussion.

When was the last time you were in Tulsa?

Texoma Cowboys? No thanks. As for Tulsa: Tulsa Oilers, Tulsa Talons, Tulsa Drillers, Tulsa 66ers, Tulsa Shock, etc... The last team in Tulsa to be named Oklahoma was the Outlaws of the USFL and they lasted one season. How come we never see any teams in Tulsa called the Sequoia Whatevers so they could appeal to all of eastern Oklahoma?

The biggest problem with Okahoma is having 2/3 of the states population in 2 cities. No other state is in that kind of situation. Most states have one dominant city with the second largest city being way behind in population or there are mutiple large cities. Imagine if Tulsa didn't exist and OKC had 2.4 million people. That would put us between Denver and Pittsburg.

Maybe we need to take a second look at the State of Sequoia.

OMG we already gave them the 66ers and the Shock...can't they do anything for themselves? What next? Are they going to expect us to do their complaining for them too?

OK, so I'm being sarcastic...BUT, why can't they go after the NHL? They could attract fanbase from NW Ark easily.

The NHL in Tulsa would be a problem because it goes on the same time as the NBA. Tulsa should try MLS.

OMG we already gave them the 66ers and the Shock...can't they do anything for themselves? What next? Are they going to expect us to do their complaining for them too?

OK, so I'm being sarcastic...BUT, why can't they go after the NHL? They could attract fanbase from NW Ark easily.

I think there is a future for pro sports in Tulsa, just not NBA being so close to OKC. The metro is nearing 1 million and you do have OKC with 1.3 million 95 miles to the southwest and Northwest Arkansas with nearly 500,000 110 miles to the east. NHL could work, but that league is not currently in the position to add teams or move them to smaller markets. I don't see NFL or MLB ever in either OKC or Tulsa's future. I don't think the WNBA will last very long, there is just not the interest locally or nationally. Same for MLS, just not enough local interest.

Tulsa will likely remain a college sports town, and will support the Thunder. There may be a few that are against them for whatever reason but the people I know in Tulsa are just as excited as people in OKC and are enjoying following the Thunder. I think that's pretty common. Will the Thunder ever overtake OU football as king of sports in Oklahoma? Never. But it gives us something to watch in the winter/spring, and the state can get behind a team.

Like I said if the Thunder really wanted to reach out to Tulsa more than they already do, they could eventually change their logo to something that isn't specifically OKC (even if the team name stays OKC Thunder) and maybe open a Thunder store in Tulsa.

The NHL in Tulsa would be a problem because it goes on the same time as the NBA. Tulsa should try MLS.


This I agree with wholeheartedly. Tulsa is a soccer city. I think MLS would kill it here. In fact, if I had to choose a pro sport for Tulsa, MLS would be at the top of my list...NHL second.

Let me say this...I don't care why OKC decided to name the Thunder "OKC". I simply believe that it was a mistake. Let's leave it at that.

Let me also say this. My observation is being characterized incorrectly. Hot Rod used the word "entitled" when describing why I believe the Thunder should play some regular season games here. It's not entitlement. It's that it is a pain in the ass for most folks to drive 200 (round trip) miles to go see a 2 hour basketball game. I don't believe that Tulsa is an NBA city and I think Tulsa would have a tough time supporting the NBA by itself. But I do believe it could better support the Thunder if it were more accessible. And don't give me that BS about the D-League. Give me a break.

P.S. And David Stern was right. It did alienate us.

I can certainly see Tulsa's side of things all the way around, including the NBA team name and the museum. In the first case, the Thunder ownership group did more or less use Tulsa to get the relocation approval and really hasn't offered much in return. You had to know they were always going to name the team after OKC because all the investors are major civic boosters, and I think they pretended to consider the Oklahoma option when it was never really likely. If not for all that, I don't think people in Tulsa could gripe but because of it, I can see the hard feelings.

And with the museums, if the situation were reversed and OKC was getting stiffed, that would certainly not sit well. I think in the case of the AICCM, the state has already sunk a bunch of money into the project and there is really no turning back now. The fairest thing at this point would be to give the museum in Tulsa the same consideration in the next funding go-round.


Apart from the natural rivalry, the two cities do often compete for resources, employers, tax dollars and recognition. Often, what is good for one is also good for the entire state and thus indirectly the other city but other times there are clear binary winner/loser propositions and there always will be.

I don't see how anyone can say using the name OKC was a mistake. Only three teams in the NBA have a season ticket waiting list - Lakers, Celtics, and Thunder (although the fair-weather fans in Chicago and Miami might push that number to 5). The Thunder sell-out almost every game and Thunder merchandise is near the tops in NBA sales. How much better could it get?

Does anyone honestly think Tulsa is going to be there to support the Thunder when the team puts together a few consecutive losing seasons?

...and if they had been called the Oklahoma Thunder, the oSu fans would be complaining even more about the supposed anti-oSu conspiracy waged by the Daily Oklahoman. They could've been called the Oklahoma City/Tulsa Thunder, but then you'd have a fight over which city name should be first...not to mention be a laughing stock of the NBA. If you recall, we did that with New Orleans, but those were special circumstances. I'm still surprised the NBA let us put the name OKC on the Hornets for those 2 years.

I feel certain the owners discussed this issue at length and at the end of the day, had to choose which group to alienate. Sux to be Tulsa. And please, don't call Tulsa a college sports town...it's a high school sports town.

Maybe I'm a lot older than you but the 70's is not ancient history for me.

Yeah, I was born in 78, lol, so the disco days are not a part of my eternal memory...

And please, don't call Tulsa a college sports town...it's a high school sports town.

TU is a Division 1 athletics program. IMO Tulsa needs to better support TU first before they think about adding another pro team. I lived in Tulsa back in the late 90's/early 00's and remember TU basketball was a hot ticket. But losing seasons and few NCAA tournament appearances since then have dampered the enthusiasim Tubby Smith and Bill Self created in the 90's. TU football has been pretty decent since Kragthorpe resurrected the program several years ago but it's tough to compete with bigtime programs like OU, OSU and Arkansas, all less than 2 hours from Tulsa, on the same Saturdays. You see the same thing with SMU, Baylor, etc. down in Texas though TCU has been able to somewhat breakthrough and build a dedicated fanbase with their recent football success, and the sheer size of the D/FW metro. TCU is also Fort Worth's team, in a metro where everything is Dallas-centered..

If it make the Tulsans happy, Kevin Durant suggested a trip to Tulsa for Game 7 Celebration.

Have I mentioned this thread is idiotic?

I can certainly see Tulsa's side of things all the way around, including the NBA team name and the museum. In the first case, the Thunder ownership group did more or less use Tulsa to get the relocation approval and really hasn't offered much in return. You had to know they were always going to name the team after OKC because all the investors are major civic boosters, and I think they pretended to consider the Oklahoma option when it was never really likely. If not for all that, I don't think people in Tulsa could gripe but because of it, I can see the hard feelings.

And with the museums, if the situation were reversed and OKC was getting stiffed, that would certainly not sit well. I think in the case of the AICCM, the state has already sunk a bunch of money into the project and there is really no turning back now. The fairest thing at this point would be to give the museum in Tulsa the same consideration in the next funding go-round.


Apart from the natural rivalry, the two cities do often compete for resources, employers, tax dollars and recognition. Often, what is good for one is also good for the entire state and thus indirectly the other city but other times there are clear binary winner/loser propositions and there always will be.

A reasoned and fair assessment. Thanks. I appreciate your trying to put the shoe on the other foot.


I don't see how anyone can say using the name OKC was a mistake. Only three teams in the NBA have a season ticket waiting list - Lakers, Celtics, and Thunder (although the fair-weather fans in Chicago and Miami might push that number to 5). The Thunder sell-out almost every game and Thunder merchandise is near the tops in NBA sales. How much better could it get?

Does anyone honestly think Tulsa is going to be there to support the Thunder when the team puts together a few consecutive losing seasons?

There is a waiting list now...there was one in Portland when I lived there during the Clyde Drexler days too... and that is precisely my point... these are salad days. You had a honeymoon period, and now a playoff contender... its great, everyone is happy...but when the going gets tough, and it will, the franchise will have to reach out to their base for support, and what will that be? You cannot GIVE away Minnesota Timberwolves tickets, for example. Now they compete with the Twins, Vikes, and Wild, so its not exactly the same, but when KG was in Minnesota, things were pretty good. Gotta plan for fat and lean times.


TU is a Division 1 athletics program. IMO Tulsa needs to better support TU first before they think about adding another pro team. I lived in Tulsa back in the late 90's/early 00's and remember TU basketball was a hot ticket. But losing seasons and few NCAA tournament appearances since then have dampered the enthusiasim Tubby Smith and Bill Self created in the 90's. TU football has been pretty decent since Kragthorpe resurrected the program several years ago but it's tough to compete with bigtime programs like OU, OSU and Arkansas, all less than 2 hours from Tulsa, on the same Saturdays. You see the same thing with SMU, Baylor, etc. down in Texas though TCU has been able to somewhat breakthrough and build a dedicated fanbase with their recent football success, and the sheer size of the D/FW metro. TCU is also Fort Worth's team, in a metro where everything is Dallas-centered..

Tulsa is an OU/OSU town, with everyone supporting TU, because how can you hate TU, right? There are also a ton of Arkansas alums here, as well as a fair number of KU support. So Tulsa has a good college fan base. As far as supporting a major league franchise...one day. probably not NBA, because of the Thunder, but I could see NHL. I could really see MLS going over. The Roughnecks were very popular...and in the final couple of years of the NASL, averaged nearly 20k per game. Plus, Soccer fits our personality as a city...IMO.


If it make the Tulsans happy, Kevin Durant suggested a trip to Tulsa for Game 7 Celebration.

Shut up...did he really? *inserts hook in mouth*

It seems hard to see MLS happening again because the league was already so close to going in but the Tulsa leadership lost interest. That would involve bringing many of the same players back to the same table again, whereas the MLS has totally moved on.

Shut up...did he really? *inserts hook in mouth*

According to a report in another thread. :-O

Shut up...did he really? *inserts hook in mouth*


According to a report in another thread. :-O

According to The Onion.... So, no, not really.

P.S. And David Stern was right. It did alienate us.
Only the petty.......

I don't see how it's petty. It's Oklahoma City's team, right? The name wasn't an accident. You don't get it both ways. You don't get to have the Oklahoma City Thunder on one hand and expect people who have never lived in OKC and have no connection to OKC to cheer for the team. Your choice: elevate the city or include the whole state. But don't get mad and call people "butt hurt" when you elevate one city and people who have an attachment to another city don't come along for the ride.

If Tulsa had got a team first and they named it "Tulsa" I could care less, good for them as Tulsa is still part of the state of Oklahoma. It didn't matter to me when the Tulsa Roughnecks were in the top level of US soccer and at that time the NASL was much closer to the four other major sports than the MSL is now. So it is petty if there are hurt feelings over a name.

I have always known more Tulsa people that have an issue with anything OKC than the reverse, just like the "perceived little brother" mentality that many cities have towards a larger or more "known" city. Many in St. Paul has that feeling towards Minneapolis, San Antonio/Austin, Fort Worth/Dallas, Houston/Dallas, etc. In most cases "city rivalries" are petty, I like Tulsa, living in Austin now and having lived in Dallas in the past and doing projects all over Texas I get to hear way too much from the petty about their city rivalry crap. Adults shouldn't be so petty about stupid things.

Strangely enough, I saw a car today in downtown Tulsa with Missouri plates and a OKC Thunder flag propped up in the driver side window.

Strangely enough, I saw a car today in downtown Tulsa with Missouri plates and a OKC Thunder flag propped up in the driver side window.

Cool story, bro.


Sorry.


I never asked...but is "Butt Hurt" a recent euphemism? I have never heard it before this thread. It sounds kind of rednecky.

I wonder which city outside OKC supports the Thunder's fan base the most? I bet it's Wichita. I would guess a hundred or more fans drive 2 hours south to root for Collison and Aldrich. If true, then we shoud rename the team the Oklahoma/Southern Kansas Thunder, or maybe the South Central Plains States Thunder (but excluding Texas).

If Tulsa had got a team first and they named it "Tulsa" I could care less, good for them as Tulsa is still part of the state of Oklahoma. It didn't matter to me when the Tulsa Roughnecks were in the top level of US soccer and at that time the NASL was much closer to the four other major sports than the MSL is now. So it is petty if there are hurt feelings over a name.

I have always known more Tulsa people that have an issue with anything OKC than the reverse, just like the "perceived little brother" mentality that many cities have towards a larger or more "known" city. Many in St. Paul has that feeling towards Minneapolis, San Antonio/Austin, Fort Worth/Dallas, Houston/Dallas, etc. In most cases "city rivalries" are petty, I like Tulsa, living in Austin now and having lived in Dallas in the past and doing projects all over Texas I get to hear way too much from the petty about their city rivalry crap. Adults shouldn't be so petty about stupid things.

My points exactly Bluedog.

And very excellent point, Earthwind. I know Wichita is part of OKC's catchment and I think the team should do more marketing there for packages and cable (if they don't already - been over 1 year since I was last in ICT). Also, if they aren't doing so in Tulsa, they should - and use those OTHER OKC-owned teams that are Tulsa based to promote and expand basketball interest in general. Tulsa was not left out in any of this and got two things handed to it without even blinking. ...

Pete, OKC owners did not USE Tulsa in the NBA presentation, instead the mayor of OKC invited the mayor of Tulsa to show how close the cities are in promoting Oklahoma and how Tulsa usually always supports OKC events. In reality - This really was a no-brainer conclusion, Im not sure why it was even a question from some of the NBA officials other than what I perceived about how OKC's media market is carved up. I mean, is there any state where a city does not support or at least add to the catchment of the team based in a different city in said state, particularly when it is the ONLY team in said state???? (weird face). Tulsa should have been a no-brainer (for OKC's catchment market), imo - Wichita was the one that should have been invited.

Spartan, what does it matter if I've been to Tulsa? ......

Because you are at it again trying to make us think you're the definitive expert on something you know nothing about, in this case, what you allege is Tulsa's "competitive inferiority complex" or maybe it's just yours... those kinds of things generally tend to be pot-kettle-black.


Cool story, bro.


Sorry.


I never asked...but is "Butt Hurt" a recent euphemism? I have never heard it before this thread. It sounds kind of rednecky.

Hey OKC Talk posters: You saw it right here, Tulsa accused OKC people of sounding rednecky. Attack! Get him!

Because you are at it again trying to make us think you're the definitive expert on something you know nothing about, in this case, what you allege is Tulsa's "competitive inferiority complex" or maybe it's just yours... those kinds of things generally tend to be pot-kettle-black.



Hey OKC Talk posters: You saw it right here, Tulsa accused OKC people of sounding rednecky. Attack! Get him!

I can honestly say that the only thing that OKC has that I am envious of is the Medical Research facility. And I do think those boat houses are cool.

and I didn't accuse OKC of being rednecky. I accused Oklahoma of being rednecky.

My God this thread is stupid. Tulsa is not bitter about the OKC Thunder. My gosh. And really, you think Wichita has a bigger fan base than Tulsa? Visit Tulsa and walk around, you'll see a ton of Thunder shirts. I honesty believe the tide has turned on the whole "bitter city" thing. OKC seems to be worse than Tulsa now. Get over yourselves (some of you) and move on to something more productive.

Hey, I'm with you guys. [Except for when you don't like the OKC Thunder name, but other than that, I'm with you guys :) ]

Go OKC Thunder!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!

By the way, I think you said it yourself with Oklahoma being rednecky. Doesn't "OKC Thunder" sound infinitely better than "Oklahoma Thunder" ? Maybe that's something we can all agree on!

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_rr13BkOCFG4/SLSbjNtx1OI/AAAAAAAAA2I/Jad22QocnII/s400/wambulance.jpg

GO OKC THUNDER!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Getting left in the dust?http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story/A-Tale-Of-Two-Cities-Tulsa-OKC/b6XyMwhF2E6OlHNYnSflbQ.cspx

Because you are at it again trying to make us think you're the definitive expert on something you know nothing about, in this case, what you allege is Tulsa's "competitive inferiority complex" or maybe it's just yours... those kinds of things generally tend to be pot-kettle-black.

Spartan:

You need to get over yourself. Talk about 'definitive expert' and 'pot-kettle-black', you need to look at your own posts and behaviour on this forum. You come on here like YOU are the only expert at all things urban and Oklahoma. You act like only your opinion matters as fact and that anybody else who has something positive to say or post something you disagree with is-a-fruit or otherwise has a complex. You spend all day posting rants and raves about this or that, I'll give you - some of which is somewhat constructive, about OKC should do this or that or doesn't have this or that. Then you cop an attitude to anybody who has an optimistic outlook for OKC or who opposes your stance.

You called me out numerous times and agove, so now Im going to call you as I see it - I see you as an arrogant, ignorant, **** anti-OKC troll who picked on the wrong person. You may be able to do that to others, but expect a response when you post that bs to me. You are an ignorant fool hiding behind an internet forum - look at YOUR number of posts (especially posts per day/time) and then tell us how much of an outgoing person you are. You must have no life - You must have nothing better to do with your life other than troll the OKC Talk forum. You clearly refuse to read or try to comprehend posts from people you dislike or concepts you disagree with.

And for the record; Im not 'trying to make people think' nor do I 'have an inferiourity complex' - YOU DO and apparently so does many still in Tulsa which is a shame. That is a fact, and I have and will continue to stand up for OKC whenever I see someone like you trolling ignorant superficial bs against OKC.

I AM more of a 'resident expert' than you are pal, I am older than you, have been to and resided in both OKC and Tulsa, and have never understood the hate Tulsans have always had against OKC back in the day (before you were born) and some of that 'Tulsa hate/entitlement' persists today, and you Spartan are a major catalyst on this forum for that. Take the blinders off and see the posts even on this thread. There are a number of OTHER expats and city residents who have said, like me, that the apparent fued tends to be one-sided from Tulsa like it has always been. You call ME out because I say it? Why didn't you attack others and call them 'inferior complex'?

For the record - I am happy for Tulsa in what they have accomplished and it is a city set in a beautiful area - but I also don't feel the need to always placate Tulsa when I speak highly of OKC. If I were on the Tulsa forum, then perhaps I would have a positive Tulsa counter. But last I checked this is OKCTalk and the Thread was started asking why Tulsa is still butt hurt over OKC accomplishments. There always seems to be an attitude that Tulsa is somehow the ONLY reason why OKC has prospered.

Am I not correct to stand up for OKC-my hometown, I've always known OKC's potential and I disagree with your OPINION 'that OKC can't become one of the big guys of the nation'. If you don't like OKC so much, perhaps you should spend your time on TulsaNow instead of trolling OKCTalk pretending like you care.

Small man complex? Take a look in the mirror pal, you present the same behaviour online that you argue does not exist. You spend all of your time (supposedly you are in Europe???) on OKCTalk??? ?? I'll give you that some of your posts are somewhat the same tired ol beneficial 'OKC needs to do this from city X' or 'OKC should model itself after some smaller town like Omaha/Des Moines/insert-city-here, blah blah blah' - but when somebody else offers an opinion or criticism you are the first to attack and become UNCONSTRUCTIVE.

My advice to you is perhaps you should refrain from replying to my posts if you can't read them or find something constructive to say if you disagree. It is clear that you want to attack me personally as you almost never read what I write or at least refute my post with a well-thought counter opinion. You should pick on people who wont stand up to you, because I will call you like I see you. You want to attack my posts or call me out - expect the same!

Better bring your lunch, pal.

Sincerely,

Hot Rod!

---------

P.S. - my apologies to the forum and the members who had to read this. This post was intended exclusively for Spartan but I wanted everyone else to also see me stand up to him/her. You all know that I am normally a positive contributor to OKCTalk and I always try to find something at least constructive to say, dreaming or not, just as other expats and city residents have. I hope you all know I am a longtime contributor to OKC's renaissance and am one of the early posters on the first OKC forums from back in the mid-1990s.

I have never made this type of post in the past but I felt the need to call Spartan out because he/she attacked me and my opinion to this thread for-no-reason and I have seen him attack others without any response nor discipline from OKCadmin. I am quite tired of his/her negative tirades with no counter and I am SICK of him/her trolling anything I write. I normally would have PM'd this post directly to Spartan, but I felt the need to call him/her in public to defend myself - as I think he/she would continue to hide behind this forum unless somebody stood up publicly against this bs. I am ready to return to the positive discussion of contributions and opinions on OKC development and the state (including Tulsa) - but I promise that I can not and will not stand-by anymore and let Spartan troll my always constructive-intended posts or opinions.

Hot Rod

Mods might as well just delete/lock this thread...

Let's get ready toooooo Ruuuuuumble!http://www.contactmusic.com/pics/ld/fight_night_DC_141110/michael_buffer_3097375.jpg

Spartan:

You need to get over yourself. Talk about 'definitive expert' and 'pot-kettle-black', you need to look at your own posts and behaviour on this forum. You come on here like YOU are the only expert at all things urban and Oklahoma. You act like only your opinion matters as fact and that anybody else who has something positive to say or post something you disagree with is-a-fruit or otherwise has a complex. You spend all day posting rants and raves about this or that, I'll give you - some of which is somewhat constructive, about OKC should do this or that or doesn't have this or that. Then you cop an attitude to anybody who has an optimistic outlook for OKC or who opposes your stance.

You called me out numerous times and agove, so now Im going to call you as I see it - I see you as an arrogant, ignorant, **** anti-OKC troll who picked on the wrong person. You may be able to do that to others, but expect a response when you post that bs to me. You are an ignorant fool hiding behind an internet forum - look at YOUR number of posts (especially posts per day/time) and then tell us how much of an outgoing person you are. You must have no life - You must have nothing better to do with your life other than troll the OKC Talk forum. You clearly refuse to read or try to comprehend posts from people you dislike or concepts you disagree with.

And for the record; Im not 'trying to make people think' nor do I 'have an inferiourity complex' - YOU DO and apparently so does many still in Tulsa which is a shame. That is a fact, and I have and will continue to stand up for OKC whenever I see someone like you trolling ignorant superficial bs against OKC.

I AM more of a 'resident expert' than you are pal, I am older than you, have been to and resided in both OKC and Tulsa, and have never understood the hate Tulsans have always had against OKC back in the day (before you were born) and some of that 'Tulsa hate/entitlement' persists today, and you Spartan are a major catalyst on this forum for that. Take the blinders off and see the posts even on this thread. There are a number of OTHER expats and city residents who have said, like me, that the apparent fued tends to be one-sided from Tulsa like it has always been. You call ME out because I say it? Why didn't you attack others and call them 'inferior complex'?

For the record - I am happy for Tulsa in what they have accomplished and it is a city set in a beautiful area - but I also don't feel the need to always placate Tulsa when I speak highly of OKC. If I were on the Tulsa forum, then perhaps I would have a positive Tulsa counter. But last I checked this is OKCTalk and the Thread was started asking why Tulsa is still butt hurt over OKC accomplishments. There always seems to be an attitude that Tulsa is somehow the ONLY reason why OKC has prospered.

Am I not correct to stand up for OKC-my hometown, I've always known OKC's potential and I disagree with your OPINION 'that OKC can't become one of the big guys of the nation'. If you don't like OKC so much, perhaps you should spend your time on TulsaNow instead of trolling OKCTalk pretending like you care.

Small man complex? Take a look in the mirror pal, you present the same behaviour online that you argue does not exist. You spend all of your time (supposedly you are in Europe???) on OKCTalk??? ?? I'll give you that some of your posts are somewhat the same tired ol beneficial 'OKC needs to do this from city X' or 'OKC should model itself after some smaller town like Omaha/Des Moines/insert-city-here, blah blah blah' - but when somebody else offers an opinion or criticism you are the first to attack and become UNCONSTRUCTIVE.

My advice to you is perhaps you should refrain from replying to my posts if you can't read them or find something constructive to say if you disagree. It is clear that you want to attack me personally as you almost never read what I write or at least refute my post with a well-thought counter opinion. You should pick on people who wont stand up to you, because I will call you like I see you. You want to attack my posts or call me out - expect the same!

Better bring your lunch, pal.

Sincerely,

Hot Rod!

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P.S. - my apologies to the forum and the members who had to read this. This post was intended exclusively for Spartan but I wanted everyone else to also see me stand up to him/her. You all know that I am normally a positive contributor to OKCTalk and I always try to find something at least constructive to say, dreaming or not, just as other expats and city residents have. I hope you all know I am a longtime contributor to OKC's renaissance and am one of the early posters on the first OKC forums from back in the mid-1990s.

I have never made this type of post in the past but I felt the need to call Spartan out because he/she attacked me and my opinion to this thread for-no-reason and I have seen him attack others without any response nor discipline from OKCadmin. I am quite tired of his/her negative tirades with no counter and I am SICK of him/her trolling anything I write. I normally would have PM'd this post directly to Spartan, but I felt the need to call him/her in public to defend myself - as I think he/she would continue to hide behind this forum unless somebody stood up publicly against this bs. I am ready to return to the positive discussion of contributions and opinions on OKC development and the state (including Tulsa) - but I promise that I can not and will not stand-by anymore and let Spartan troll my always constructive-intended posts or opinions.

Hot Rod

Seek help. Now. Talk about scary...

P.S. You could send me a PM if you like.



Mods might as well just delete/lock this thread...

They should have from post 1. Idiotic thread is idiotic.

My God this thread is stupid. Tulsa is not bitter about the OKC Thunder. My gosh. And really, you think Wichita has a bigger fan base than Tulsa? Visit Tulsa and walk around, you'll see a ton of Thunder shirts. I honesty believe the tide has turned on the whole "bitter city" thing. OKC seems to be worse than Tulsa now. Get over yourselves (some of you) and move on to something more productive.

This seems to be pretty accurate...Lived in Tulsa for two years enjoyed it and didn't hear a peep about OKC

A local news station interviewed a fan outside the arena tonight before the Thunder game. He was from Tulsa and drove to OKC without a ticket hoping to get one before it started. He mentioned that he had never really been a basketball fan before. Evidently the OKC name didn't drive him away. LOL

I'm locking this thread and probably should have done so from the outset.

There is a way to discuss the obvious rivalry between the state's two largest cities but this thread started off badly and was doomed from the beginning.

I've leaving it (rather than deleting) because there were so good points made, but in the future let's find a less combative approach when it comes to the inevitable comparisons between two great up-and-coming cities.