I am going to take the bus to work next week just to see how feasible it is...

could be an experience...

Please post your experience here. This is something I'm intensely interested in. I think our bus system needs a major overhaul and I'd love to hear people's personal experiences.

I tried it once, just to see if it was a viable option. Total nightmare. For one, I'm at least of average intelligence and I had no idea how the system works. I had to go online and even make a phone call to figure it out. The nearest stop to my home was quite a walk (unthinkable in bad weather). Then the time it took to get to downtown, wait, change buses, etc. Not worth it at all in my book.

Urban sprawl is about to get huge does of reality.

It's going to suck terribly. Thankfully I live in Norman a 10 minute bus ride from where I work, but many aren't so lucky.

I don't like $4 gas and I certainly want it to go down, but I don't get all the "sky is falling" crap the media and others keep dishing out.

Nobody complains when say gas is at $2.80/gallon ($47.60 to fill a 17 gallon tank). So at $4 that adds $1.20 per gallon ($20.40 add'l per 17 gallon tank). I'm guessing alot of people fill up every 5 days or basically 6x a month - which would be an extra $122.40 per month. Sure, I'd rather pocket the extra money, but if the average American's life crumbles over $122.40 then we've got bigger problems to worry about and I'm thinking my estimates may be too high for many people.

And yes, I realize higher gas prices drive up the prices of other goods - but maybe we need to just start buying a little less.

It isn't just the price consumers pay - it is also the price of getting products to store shelves. Here in Florida diesel is over $4 per gallon and retail prices are starting to reflect it. When demand goes down everything goes down to adjust - including jobs. What is weird is having simultaneous decrease in demand AND inflation. Fewer people working and raising prices is not a good combination, but that is what happens when fuel prices go up.

I did it for an entire summer. I live within three blocks of a major bus route and I worked downtown. My experience was not ideal, but it could have been much worse. Our bus system is a joke and I feel bad for the people who have to rely on it to get to work, get groceries, etc.

I realize that Kerry. The only thing I really hate to see is the loss of jobs when people stop spending. But honestly, there is very little (other than food) that most people HAVE to buy. I like an excuse to tighten my budget.

As for gas, I spend over $700 per month right now. I enter all my vehicle expenses into my Gas Cubby app.

If our transit system was better, then I'd use it. I even looked into bicycling to do my trips downtown, but the route is too dangerous from my home.

I would love to do this, but it just isn't going to work for me. Here is what my day would look like if I tried to take the bus.

Leave house (39th & Walker) around 6:15 am
Arrive at #4 bus stop - 36th and Classen. Bus departs @ 6:36 AM
Ride Bus back to Downtown Station (keep in mind the bus will travel through the intersection @ 36th and Walker - 3 blocks from my house, but there isn't a stop there....grrrrrrrr)
Arrive Downtown at 7:00 am
Depart on #7 bus at 7:00 am (Will I even make this connection????)
Arrive at the bus stop at 59th and Brookline around 7:40 am. Walk two blocks to office.

So - About 1 1/2 hours to travel 4.2 miles. I realize that I live relatively close to my office compared to most. However, I shouldn't have to take an 1 1/2 bus ride if I want to be eco & wallet friendly. Our bus system is so screwed up.

Put it on the grid system!!!! Not this half a$$ed thing where you have to ride downtown to go anywhere. It's like traveling to NYC via LA. It drives me nuts.

As for gas, I spend over $700 per month right now. I enter all my vehicle expenses into my Gas Cubby app.

I'm sorry but that is completely ridiculous. You spend damn near 10 grand on gas a year; that makes me sick on so many levels. Financially, environmentally, economically.

If you think $4 gas is going to hurt in the city, rural Oklahoma is going to take a big hit. Many of those people drive a long way to work and they don't have fuel efficient vehicles. This is why I am now in full favor of state-wide rail system. These gasoline prices won't be coming back down, and if they do, they won't last long.

I'm sorry but that is completely ridiculous. You spend damn near 10 grand on gas a year; that makes me sick on so many levels. Financially, environmentally, economically.

To him, its worth it to catch all the sex in progress across the state. The videos he post online generates glorious revenues in return in additions to TV appearances. Basically, he's a rich guy.

To him, its worth it to catch all the sex in progress across the state. The videos he post online generates glorious revenues in return in additions to TV appearances. Basically, he's a rich guy.

Do I know Brian Bates--NO
Do I agree with his methods--NO
Is he getting rich off of doing what he's passionate about--NO

I'm sorry but that is completely ridiculous. You spend damn near 10 grand on gas a year; that makes me sick on so many levels. Financially, environmentally, economically.

How would you know if it's ridiculous or not? It's required for my work. Work that varies far more than Thunder or RCjunkie have a clue. It's all a tax write-off, so I really couldn't care less since the credit is still more than the cost. If I cared I'd get a hybrid. But I prefer gas guzzling SUV's.


And RC, "rich" is pretty subjective. All I care about is having zero debt and the ability to pay cash for anything I buy.

How would you know if it's ridiculous or not? It's required for my work. Work that varies far more than Thunder or RCjunkie have a clue. It's all a tax write-off, so I really couldn't care less since the credit is still more than the cost. If I cared I'd get a hybrid. But I prefer gas guzzling SUV's.


And RC, "rich" is pretty subjective. All I care about is having zero debt and the ability to pay cash for anything I buy.

Which is exactly what I do, two homes paid for, 1 in Tuttle, 1 at Lake Tenkiller, paid cash for the last new 4 vehicles I've bought, I owe nothing. If I can't pay cash for it, I don't need it.

Which is exactly what I do, two homes paid for, 1 in Tuttle, 1 at Lake Tenkiller, paid cash for the last new 4 vehicles I've bought, I owe nothing. If I can't pay cash for it, I don't need it.

That's the way to do it and in this country that alone makes someone 'rich' in my book. Unfortunately too many people think buying big houses and cars and racking up debt is 'rich.'

Which is exactly what I do, two homes paid for, 1 in Tuttle, 1 at Lake Tenkiller, paid cash for the last new 4 vehicles I've bought, I owe nothing. If I can't pay cash for it, I don't need it.

Agree. Now if we could just get more people in government to follow that...

I would love to do this, but it just isn't going to work for me. Here is what my day would look like if I tried to take the bus.

Leave house (39th & Walker) around 6:15 am
Arrive at #4 bus stop - 36th and Classen. Bus departs @ 6:36 AM
Ride Bus back to Downtown Station (keep in mind the bus will travel through the intersection @ 36th and Walker - 3 blocks from my house, but there isn't a stop there....grrrrrrrr)
Arrive Downtown at 7:00 am
Depart on #7 bus at 7:00 am (Will I even make this connection????)
Arrive at the bus stop at 59th and Brookline around 7:40 am. Walk two blocks to office.

So - About 1 1/2 hours to travel 4.2 miles. I realize that I live relatively close to my office compared to most. However, I shouldn't have to take an 1 1/2 bus ride if I want to be eco & wallet friendly. Our bus system is so screwed up.

Put it on the grid system!!!! Not this half a$$ed thing where you have to ride downtown to go anywhere. It's like traveling to NYC via LA. It drives me nuts.

And that is why it is totally worthless. It takes 6 times as long to get anywhere. As you say, 4 miles is an hour and a half!!!!! You go all the way downtown to get there? WTF? I'm in total agreement on this thing. They need to stop with the hub crap...OKC isn't an airport for the country, it's a freaking bus route. Run it like one! MetroNonTransit.

Another reason I'll never do the Heartland Flyer again - takes a lot longer and costs a lot more than if I simply drove to Texas.

I would love to do this, but it just isn't going to work for me. Here is what my day would look like if I tried to take the bus.

Leave house (39th & Walker) around 6:15 am
Arrive at #4 bus stop - 36th and Classen. Bus departs @ 6:36 AM
Ride Bus back to Downtown Station (keep in mind the bus will travel through the intersection @ 36th and Walker - 3 blocks from my house, but there isn't a stop there....grrrrrrrr)
Arrive Downtown at 7:00 am
Depart on #7 bus at 7:00 am (Will I even make this connection????)
Arrive at the bus stop at 59th and Brookline around 7:40 am. Walk two blocks to office.

So - About 1 1/2 hours to travel 4.2 miles. I realize that I live relatively close to my office compared to most. However, I shouldn't have to take an 1 1/2 bus ride if I want to be eco & wallet friendly. Our bus system is so screwed up.

Put it on the grid system!!!! Not this half a$$ed thing where you have to ride downtown to go anywhere. It's like traveling to NYC via LA. It drives me nuts.

A reasonably fit person COULD WALK that far in that amount of time and have time left over!!! Too bad there isn't a decent network of sidewalks in the city!!!

OKC is a commuter city. People don't walk unless it's for exercise or they don't have a car or can't find a ride. Even a three block trip to the corner store is usually in a vehicle. And Oklahomans just don't ride the bus either. That is an option that is not seen as desirable in OKC.

A reasonably fit person COULD WALK that far in that amount of time and have time left over!!! Too bad there isn't a decent network of sidewalks in the city!!!

OKC is a commuter city. People don't walk unless it's for exercise or they don't have a car or can't find a ride. Even a three block trip to the corner store is usually in a vehicle. And Oklahomans just don't ride the bus either. That is an option that is not seen as desirable in OKC.

Depends on where you live. We've got sidewalks and I walk whenever I can.

We don't ride the bus because it's not convenient or because it's not seen as desirable? Chicken and egg there. Make it convenient, make the buses easy to use and as gas prices rise, you'll get more riders. Build decent bus stops that are covered and that have route times in them. Come up with a phone ap that shows you the bus location (they've got that in Chicago), and you'll get more riders. The more riders you get the more riders you'll get.

A reasonably fit person COULD WALK that far in that amount of time and have time left over!!! Too bad there isn't a decent network of sidewalks in the city!!!


I would just ride a bike. You can do 4 miles in 20 minutes and not even break a sweat. When I lived in Norman I worked at the former Homeland at Main and 24th. It was 3 miles each way for me and it did it in the rain, snow, and heat. One of the guys I worked with was an early adopter of the green movement and he rode his bike 15 miles each way (of course he also snacked on dog biscuts while at the register)

Another reason I'll never do the Heartland Flyer again - takes a lot longer and costs a lot more than if I simply drove to Texas.

Would use it if there was an OKC/Ft Worth Express and driving cost you twice what it cost you now? For now let's say the train ticket cost whatever you think is reasonable.

I bussed in from Norman to DT one recent morning. Did my tasks, enjoyed lunch, rode bus back.
Less expense than drive/park.

Only downside is I had a longer lunch than intended. I dinna realize the 12:50ish bus was no more.

On the up side, I had ample time to relish my meal and take in a concert in library atrium, and there was an open computer there too.

I've certainly had worse days, and under appropriate circumstances can see doing more bus trips.

A reasonably fit person COULD WALK that far in that amount of time and have time left over!!!

"Could", "would" and "reasonable" are completely different. I'm in good shape (go to the Y at least 7x a week) and I would not even consider a 8.4 mile walk commute each day to work and neither would most people(for a whole host of reasons). I unapologetically fire up my SUV to drive to Braum's to get groceries only about a 1/2 mile each way. And before you climb onto your eco-friendly pedestal, I'm in the majority and feel no need to be ashamed of the fact we are a mobile society.

No reason why citizens shouldn't expect the best option to be the fastest, most convenient and cheapest option.

However, people will probably take mobility into consideration more when they choose to relocate in the future. One of the reasons we are looking to move downtown is so that walking/biking to work, gym, dining and entertainment is a real option.

Would use it if there was an OKC/Ft Worth Express and driving cost you twice what it cost you now? For now let's say the train ticket cost whatever you think is reasonable.

Kerry I have a feeling that more Oklahoma’s would consider taking the Heartland flyer if its ending destination was in Dallas rather than FW. Dallas has a much larger entertainment and business community and with Dart light rail it’s not hard to get even closer to your destination.
I have read the tracks between Denton and Dallas are being upgraded to handle commuter rail, if so it would help facilitate a switch in destinations.

The last I knew they were going to make improvements that would improve the on time performance and speed up the Heartland flyer by about 15 min.

I agree - I'd love the option to stop in Dallas, Houston and/or Austin.

But, $62 round trip per person to FW just is not attractive unless I was elderly and visiting family.

I also wish they'd have a car where you could take your pets.

According to Amtrak a round trip ticket from OKC to FW is $52
http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/Amtrak


Use the promotional code on this link and save 20% off your Heartland flyer tickets. (spring fare)
http://heartlandflyer.com/news-special-events/detail.aspx?id=76

According to Amtrak a round trip ticket from OKC to FW is $52
http://tickets.amtrak.com/itd/Amtrak


Use the promotional code on this link and save 20% off your Heartland flyer tickets. (spring fare)
http://heartlandflyer.com/news-special-events/detail.aspx?id=76

Last time I called it was $62. Even at $52 I wouldn't consider it. A family of 4 $208!!!!! Give me a break.

Last time I called it was $62. Even at $52 I wouldn't consider it. A family of 4 $208!!!!! Give me a break.I agree. It’s not practical for everyone.
The few times I have taken the train to FW and back I have always made sure that I have plenty of work related / reading material and a head set to help pass the time. I have seen folks with lap tops typing or watching a movie. It’s hard to do all that if YOU are driving but as I said it’s not a solution for everyone.

A reasonably fit person COULD WALK that far in that amount of time and have time left over!!! Too bad there isn't a decent network of sidewalks in the city!!!

OKC is a commuter city. People don't walk unless it's for exercise or they don't have a car or can't find a ride. Even a three block trip to the corner store is usually in a vehicle. And Oklahomans just don't ride the bus either. That is an option that is not seen as desirable in OKC.

I am not going to claim I am fit, but I definitely could walk it. However, what about in July when the temp is about 98 degrees when I am walking home at 5:00 in a shirt and tie? How about in the rain? I have ridden a bus in cities that have a usable system only a mile or two......it was for the convenience factor and that a bus can get me there much quicker than walking.

The reason I think many look at the bus system as undesirable is because of how it is run. Change the scheduling and routes, and people will begin to use it. Also those that see it as undesirable haven't been to a city that has a decent system and used it.

I agree. It’s not practical for everyone.
The few times I have taken the train to FW and back I have always made sure that I have plenty of work related / reading material and a head set to help pass the time. I have seen folks with lap tops typing or watching a movie. It’s hard to do all that if YOU are driving but as I said it’s not a solution for everyone.

Is there anywhere that posts how many tickets they actually sell on the Heartland Flyer? I see it every morning and it always looks empty.

Doesn't surprise me they can't get a decent metro bus system in place. Nobody I know rides the Bricktown shuttles because they are so undependable.

I am not going to claim I am fit, but I definitely could walk it. However, what about in July when the temp is about 98 degrees when I am walking home at 5:00 in a shirt and tie? How about in the rain? I have ridden a bus in cities that have a usable system only a mile or two......it was for the convenience factor and that a bus can get me there much quicker than walking.

The reason I think many look at the bus system as undesirable is because of how it is run. Change the scheduling and routes, and people will begin to use it. Also those that see it as undesirable haven't been to a city that has a decent system and used it.

Gee there has been a bunch of misinterpretations as to my previous comment. In no way did I intend that any person should or feel obligated to walk the 4-and-a-half miles to work or that anyone was out-of-shape.

My real intent was to show that the bus system is slooooowwwwww...that in a specific instance someone could walk and reach their destination faster than the transit system could take them there. That was all. Nothing more. The buses are slow.

OKCNDN - Sorry. I wasn't offended by any means. How dare you call me fat!!!! :)

I was dealing with another mode of transportation while I was typing that.... arranging a flight for 16 to Bolivia with American Airlines. My head is still spinning. So I probably was a little more angry at the world when I read your post.

But yes - the buses are stupidly slow in OKC. Happy we agree!

Anything about 4 miles or less that can be accessed by a combination of residential side streets is well-suited for bike rides as well. A 4-mile ride is about 20-30 minutes. Google has great biking directions that show how to get places with the shortest distances and staying off dangerous arterial streets. Until our bus system has an awakening and switches to a grid, biking might be the best option for the 4-mile range.

Shane-

I just looked at my route on google maps. it is great how they point out which parklots you can take a 'safe' detour through. I will give it a try.....the two blocks on the NW Expressway is going to be a fun one. :)

I finally took the bus to my office last month. The trip there was fine as the bus stop is literally across the street from my house. I had to make one connection and the overall trip took about 30 minutes from 44th and Portland and 14th and Council. The trip back on the other hand took about 1 1/2 hours as I misread the map and missed my connection by 3 minutes. The lack of sidewalks really was inconvenient for my 4 block trek from 10th and 14th and Council. Also, the bus only goes south from my house, so I got to take about a 20 minute ride out of my way to get back to my house without walking 8 blocks (again with no sidewalks). My son was with me and in a walking boot at the time so that walk was out of the question.

I actually could take the bus very easily from where I live to where I work but don't. It's about one mile and I can drive for less money than I could ride the bus even with today's gas prices. Unfortunately there are few sidewalks so walking is not a good option and I don't have a shower where I work to wash off after I arrive. The public would not appreciate how I sweat and smell after a mile walk or bicycle ride. LOL
I also have to occasionally run errands at lunch that don't allow time for transportation other than my car.

When I worked in south OKC, I would occasionally bus in from Norman, and my lovely would meet me in town for dinner or an event that eve. On my trips I often shared the bus with a chap who biked 3 miles into the Norman stop most days, racked the bike on the bus, got off in the city and then biked 3 miles from his stop to his work. He repeated the process at day's end. 12 miles biking a day is way more bike dedication than I ever had, even as a teen when a lass was involved, but he was a rather fit chap, and what he saved on not having a commuter car was substantial, I have to give him his props on both counts.

Do they offer a shuttle from Norman to OKC like they do from Edmond to OKC? I see the Edmond shuttle most mornings and I'd certainly consider that if I lived in Edmond.

Do they offer a shuttle from Norman to OKC like they do from Edmond to OKC? I see the Edmond shuttle most mornings and I'd certainly consider that if I lived in Edmond.

Yes. It's the Sooner Express. Go to www.gometro.org for sked. It's been mostly full, and running for several years.

Last time I called it was $62. Even at $52 I wouldn't consider it. A family of 4 $208!!!!! Give me a break.

What if you could buy an annual rail pass for $200 per person (kids under 6 free) and it was unlimited rides, but instead of just Ft Worth it was this:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKRail-1.jpg

What if you could buy an annual rail pass for $200 per person (kids under 6 free) and it was unlimited rides, but instead of just Ft Worth it was this:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKRail-1.jpg

And then rent a car once you get to Atoka or almost any of these stops to get to your final destination?

Why not connect Enid and Watonga and Geary with Chickasha. Otherwise the route from Geary to Watonga wouldnt be able to sustain alot of traffic. Maybe even turn Enid into a Black Circle and connect Enid and Stillwater and make the start of an outer loop? I also think you should make Ardmore or pauls valley a black circle too. There isn't any on your blue line. and maybe connect ada and one duncan to them. This would help with the same problem we have with the metro bus. Everyone has to go back to okc to go anywhere else in the state.

I think the biggest thing for the smaller towns is it allows them to connect to larger towns. It also makes it easier for families to visit the smaller towns and be picked up by their relatives. This makes smaller towns more attractive places to live so they will grow and eventually the residents wont need to go to the larger towns for as many things.

you also forgot a stop for midwest city/tinker and Owasso.

And what about Ponca City? Is there not enough Current track to connect it to stillwater? or somewhere else close?

If you have been Atoka you know you don't need a rental car - the whole town is within a mile of the train station. But if you were going to visit someone who lived outside Atoka, they could drive to the train station and pick you up. A 5 mile drive to the train station is a lot better than the 130 mile drive from Atoka to OKC.

you also forgot a stop for midwest city/tinker

This is a state system only - a metro-rail service would pick-up local metro stops. Frequence on most of this system would be a few trains a day, mostly with single car DMUs. Lawton - OKC - Tulsa would be served by faster non-stop express trains as well as slower local state trains.

Why not connect Enid and Watonga and Geary with Chickasha. Otherwise the route from Geary to Watonga wouldnt be able to sustain alot of traffic. Maybe even turn Enid into a Black Circle and connect Enid and Stillwater and make the start of an outer loop? I also think you should make Ardmore or pauls valley a black circle too. There isn't any on your blue line. and maybe connect ada and one duncan to them. This would help with the same problem we have with the metro bus. Everyone has to go back to okc to go anywhere else in the state.

This layout uses existing track and could be put in place today (pending funding and railroad approval).

Ok i didn't know since you included the state capital. I figured if you included a stop there you should probably include a stop in Midwest City also.

So lets say we wanted to go to Dallas, Fort Worth or somewhere else on the national system. Would we have to go to OKC and then take Amtrak there and pay full price for an Amtrak ticket? Or would there be some sort of agreement to allow us to pay say 20 dollars for each trip to Dallas?

We have been talking about this another thread: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=25443

As federal budget deficits continue to climb there is a very good chance that in the next few years Amtrak will cease to exist in most places outside the Boston to D.C. corridor. My plan would be to take the state funds being used to subsidies Amtrak (about $2 million per year) and direct that money towards a state run system.

It would be up to surrounding states to build their own state-based systems. For example, Texas could build a system with an integration stop in Gainesville, TX. The line from Marietta would be extended giving Oklahoma access to the Texas system. Pricing in Texas would depend on Texas. This system is how rails system in Europe work where their individual countries are equivalent to our states. Of course there would be the possibility of have express non-stop service between OKC and Dallas (it just wouldn’t be high speed rail).

Also, A Kansas system could connect Bartlesville with Kansas City and Wichita to Enid. Non-Stop express trains could then run between Tulsa/Kansas City and OKC/Wichita. With a short layover in OKC you could travel from Wichita to Dallas or from OKC to Kansas City with a short stop in Tulsa (all faster than you can drive it, cheaper than you can fly, and no concern about the price of gasoline).

What about Euro rail. Would you have a an equivalent in this system?

What if you could buy an annual rail pass for $200 per person (kids under 6 free) and it was unlimited rides, but instead of just Ft Worth it was this:

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKRail-1.jpg

where do you get 200 a person annual pass? ... the tube in london costs 140 a month for 1 zone

1500+ a year for 1 zone

where do you get 200 a person annual pass? ... the tube in london costs 140 a month for 1 zone

1500+ a year for 1 zone

The tube in London isn't running single-car DMUs 2 or 3 times a day per line. They are running thousands of trains every day and have 275 stations. They are also running through and under some of the most expensive real-estate in the world and some of the highest wages on the planet. A state-wide system in Oklahoma using existing track would cost pennies compared to the London Tube system. Take my Sayer to OKC route for example. We are talking 2 trains a day each way. Here is a picture of a single-car DMU (no way it would cost near as much to run these as it does to operate the London Tube). Heck, they could even be converted to run on CNG.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4128/5090125709_cb8c762df5.jpg

Here is a link to the early phase of a similar system in Oregon.
http://www.trainweb.org/mccann/wes.htm
and here
http://trimet.org/wes/

I lived in Altus for a year. I would have been on this system every weekend. My mom lived there for 3 years and still goes back on occasion to visit friends. I would much prefer that she take the train than drive (and if you knew my mothers driving you would prefer she take the train as well).

I doubt we'll see a whole lot of difference.

When gas first hit $1 a gallon it was going to be the end of big cars and trucks, long trips, basically driving as we knew it. Nope!
$2 a gallon same thing. Nada!
$3 a gallon same thing but this time it was the end of the big, now popular, SUV. Nope again!
$4 a gallon. People will adjust. The vast majority just isn't ready to give up what they're used to.

Soonersoftail - you are assuming wages will keep up with price increase. We are approaching record price on weak demand and the cost to secure foreign oil fields is costing us nearly a trillion dollars per year that we never see at the gas pump.

I doubt we'll see a whole lot of difference.

When gas first hit $1 a gallon it was going to be the end of big cars and trucks, long trips, basically driving as we knew it. Nope!
$2 a gallon same thing. Nada!
$3 a gallon same thing but this time it was the end of the big, now popular, SUV. Nope again!
$4 a gallon. People will adjust. The vast majority just isn't ready to give up what they're used to.

According to this +$6 gasoline is possible.
If so the economy would take a huge hit.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/42683030

T. Boone Pickens said today that 4Q world crude demand is forecast be 90 million barrels per day but that world production would be around 88 million barrels per day.

In recent weeks US demand for gasoline has dropped but this has been offset by an increased world demand and cuts in production.
The falling dollar is a major part of the price increases in the USA.