Right now the OKC-SEA local market has about 180 passengers per day (avg), which averages out to 90 each way. The market just really can't support 130-ish seats per day each way yet, even though connections are available from SEA. It's entirely possible to see this service in the future, with the way Boeing and the aviation sector as a whole is growing in OKC. But right now, I just can't see it happen.

Alaska could sell seats on these flights, but you have to factor in the cost to pay for 3 flight attendants, extra fuel for the added weight, the cost to overnight 5 crewmembers downtown, and the associated costs for the ground handling contract (whether it be AA or DL). That cost can be calculated, but it would be hard to sell enough seats with the lead-time given for these maintenance ferries. At best there is about a 3-4 week notice before a plane will be pulled from the schedule. The exact date and location of that airplane when it needs to be sent to MX isn't really known until a week or so out.

All this for maybe 8 round trips per month at best. Quite simply isn't worth the effort at this point in time. Now, when the market grows enough to support daily service, it would be no problem to do any of this, because with daily service, you can place the airplanes into the mix seamlessly, because there is a flight operating each day. Just comes down to positioning.

Possible: yes. Possible in today's market: No. Possible within 5 years: yes.

Thanks for those numbers SkyWest, I was curious about that. I flew back from Seattle on Sunday on Frontier with a stop in Denver. It is not an exaggeration to say that over half of our plane from Seattle to Denver was on our flight to OKC. Of course this was all of the cruise traffic coming home and I guess Oklahomans love to cruise based on how many Okies I met on our ship last week.

Thanks for those numbers SkyWest, I was curious about that. I flew back from Seattle on Sunday on Frontier with a stop in Denver. It is not an exaggeration to say that over half of our plane from Seattle to Denver was on our flight to OKC. Of course this was all of the cruise traffic coming home and I guess Oklahomans love to cruise based on how many Okies I met on our ship last week.

It would be interesting to see how the market would do with an LCC like Frontier (F9) would do operating the route vs Alaska. F9 operates SEA to DEN as well as Milwaukee and the focus city at Kansas City. It isn't really a shock that F9 is getting beat up a bit by Southwest in Denver, though Southwest is likely attacking them at a loss of revenue to buy business, so looking at OKC as another focus city might not be a bad thing. Florida did flounder from here, but I really think that has to do with lack of brand awareness - which the airport authority needs to work on. However, it probably isn't in the cards right now until we see more of an uptick in passenger numbers. Alaska though would have the added benefit to provide connections to the NW and Alaska through Seattle that would enable the service to be more successful.

Going forward what we might see, which I've probably hit on this a few (thousand) times already... LOL ...

Codes: AA - American, DL - Delta, F9 - Frontier, WN - Southwest/AirTran, and UA - United/Continental, Pax - Passengers, ms - Market Share, lf - Airline with lowest fares

Top 30 O&D Markets from OKC (number is daily flights)

Houston, TX: 3 x WN; 9 x UA -- No real expansion needed here. Could see UA pull back down in # of flights for larger gauge of aircraft, but not sure if sacrifice on frequency would please biz pax.
Denver, CO: 3 x F9, 3 x F9, and 5 x UA -- Tapped out. Could see F9 or WN pull back in this market. WN has 40% ms, but F9 is lf leader and 27% ms. UA is just UA. lol
Las Vegas, NV: 2 x WN -- Pretty low number of options for the market size. WN controls market, but routes most people through PHX or LAS. They could probably manage to go to 3x day.
New York, NY: 1x UA -- Under served with only one 50-seat RJ a day. UA could take this to 2x into EWR (Newark), or DL could go 1x into LGA (LaGuardia), or DL/AA go 1x into JFK. This market could probably support 3-4 flights a day if done correctly.
Chicago, IL: 4x AA, 5x UA -- Decent service. Would be nice to get mainline back on this route, but it has been gone for almost a decade now. WN could jump in on the market, but they rather shuttle people through MCI and STL to get here.
Phoenix, AZ: 2x WN -- WN has pulled this route back after US Airways left the market. Route probably has the right amount of capacity on it though to meet O&D demand.
Dallas, TX: 7x AA, 5x WN -- Pretty bloated in O&D service, but most traffic is connecting. OKC is also a stop over for DEN-DAL service due to the Wright. Could see WN pull this back to 4 flights a day when the Wright expires. No other real changes that I can see happening.
Baltimore, MD: 1x WN -- Only one flight a day is pretty low based on O&D, could go to two flights a day and help connectivity to the nation's capital and Mid Atlantic even more. Might be a possibility with the AirTran merger and use of the 717 on the route.
Orlando, FL: No nonstop service -- Largest market with no nonstop service. We've seen Frontier fail. Delta fail. Southwest fail. Allegiant pullout before starting. Something has to give in this market. I could see WN try again, if they really wanted to, and make it work. 717 aircraft could help with that. Otherwise, we would have to look at Allegiant to help us out here.
Los Angeles, CA: 2x AA, 1x UA -- Can't complain...level of service is great. See no reason to modify going forward. DL might considering becoming a player here, but I wouldn't bet much on it.
Atlanta, GA: 5x DL -- Fort Widget is stuck with 5 flights a day on DL, but now 2 mainline flights. I feel we have a very high chance of seeing WN launch 2x on the route post-AirTran integration and DL upgrading to all mainline in response. This market will only grow. The one fly in the ointment here is that WN really doesn't have the ability to grow much outside the current AirTran operation since they are capped on gate space and already at max utilization.
St. Louis, MO: 2x WN -- Gone are the days of TWA 5x a day. American has completely abandoned the hub, now it is only a spoke in its network, and Southwest hasn't shown any interesting in increasing flights. Pretty flight options here. O&D is a little low for flights offered.
Washington, DC: 1x UA -- One flight a day. That's it. UA doesn't even lead in ms or lf categories (AA does). This market can grow. However, we have 2 maybe 3 options. UA could go to 2x a day. F9 could land a DCA slot and add OKC. US Airways could look to adding 1x a day to OKC in addition to entering the market. I'm not better on any right now though.
San Antonio, TX: No service -- 2nd largest O&D market with no service. It has been tried twice before, but the operators fell on their face. WN is in the best position to do this, but why when they can move people through Dallas. Still someone probably could make this work, with the right fares, at 1 to 2x a day on a 50-70 seat aircraft (RJ or prop).
San Diego, CA: No service -- Last tried by ExpressJet with their branded experiment. It did alright and it could probably handle 1 flight a day if someone wanted to.
Seattle, WA: No service -- Q4 saw pax numbers fall on this route, but one flight a day could work if priced/timed/connected correctly. Alaska would be the main play here, Frontier a close second, then WN.
Kansas City, MO: 2x WN -- Service has come down a bit by WN. Decent market, but most pax connect to other markets. Probably good enough for now. If WN pulls back more, F9 could move in.
San Francisco, CA: 1x UA -- Single flight is appropriate for the market right now. If we see a LCC enter, O&D could go up...but I like the options right now.
Salt Lake City, UT: 3x DL -- Obviously a lot of service for low O&D, this is mainly a connecting point. Don't see much change at all.
Sacramento, CA: No service -- Tried before, could work again with the right fare/aircraft mix. Maybe once a day though. No operator really jumps out as an option though, but Alaska an Frontier could be options.
Austin, TX: No service -- Like some of the others, tried and didn't work out very well. The Dell connection isn't enough to keep it full, but the passengers are there. WN is biggest, but yeah...read above. Don't see many options here for service.
Philadelphia, PA: No service -- Hasn't been offered from OKC nonstop for awhile, if ever. US Airways is obviously the candidate here and could make it work with 2x a day and provide a ton of NE and European connections.
Tampa, FL: No service - Same deal as Orlando.
Santa Ana, CA: No service -- Probably never going to happen, so just moving on. LOL
New Orleans, LA: No service -- This market could work with 1 flight a day. It would likely have to be an RJ or prop though. No stand out targets.
Portland, OR: No service - Low O&D (~90), but could be a good option for Alaska to go with Seattle. However, they don't even do that in Dallas or Austin.
Detroit, MI: 3x DL -- Low O&D, but Delta's (formerly Northwest) 2nd largest hub behind Fort Widget. No change.
Nashville, TN: No service -- Can't recall, but probably had service on American when it was a hub back in the 90s and on Great Plains via Tulsa (I think?). I am kinda shocked WN hasn't tried 1x a day on this route, as it would open up the SE USA more, but yeah that DAL thing. Don't see anyone that would make it happen.
Ontario/San Bernardino, CA: No service -- Tried before, probably could work...but right now just need to focus on building LAX traffic.
Minneapolis, MN: -- 3x DL -- Same deal as Detroit and service to the Number 3 hub likely won't change any. If service ever did get pulled back, Sun Country *might* be an option, but that is a massive long shot.

To give the full view of the Q4 O&D data...tried to make a clearer view and posted it: http://www.storm-scope.com/other/okc_q4_od.htm

Green highlighted rows are markets served nonstop.

July passenger numbers.

Near 3% growth on both enplanements and deplanements. No complaints there. Slow and steady growth. Just passed the 1 million mark for enplanements and deplanements on the year respectively.

http://www.flyokc.com/statistics/July%20Enplanement.pdf

And some discouraging news....from the latest schedule updates.

Delta ends mainline effective Jan-Feb. Most likely an error from the schedule extension. 5-6 months out, will probably be corrected. If not, seasonal adjustment with mainline returning for the Spring.

United/Continental reduce Dec-Jan flights to OKC by 10 flights.....23 to 13. Probably an error, as key routes to hubs were cut to a minimum. For example, DEN would only have 2 ERJ flights per day and no mainline. I think this is an error that will be caught by next week.

Big thing with UA/CO...they are still juggling operations between certificates and I don't think they ever update one system's schedule at the same time as the other. So I really wouldn't read much into it at all.

Big thing with UA/CO...they are still juggling operations between certificates and I don't think they ever update one system's schedule at the same time as the other. So I really wouldn't read much into it at all.

I agree. The United - Continental merger hasn't gone nearly as smoothly as the Delta - Northwest merger did.

The majority of the cuts came from the UA cert. side. Plus the changes actually are visible on both reservation systems.

Question for some of you airline gurus: What do the airlines do with all the planes during down times? Just park them? What about the crews that operate them?

Take for instance Delta/Atlanta. We have had 2 mainline flights per day, but for a couple months we may go down to 0 mainline flights. Presumably other similarly serviced cities on Delta/Atlanta will go down some mainline flights during the down period. As an example, if OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock, Austin, etc. (just examples) all lose on average 2 mainline flights per day, that adds up to a lot of jets parked in Atlanta.

Question for some of you airline gurus: What do the airlines do with all the planes during down times? Just park them? What about the crews that operate them?

Take for instance Delta/Atlanta. We have had 2 mainline flights per day, but for a couple months we may go down to 0 mainline flights. Presumably other similarly serviced cities on Delta/Atlanta will go down some mainline flights during the down period. As an example, if OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock, Austin, etc. (just examples) all lose on average 2 mainline flights per day, that adds up to a lot of jets parked in Atlanta.

brian, I promise you the airlines don't just leave profitable jets sitting parked in Atlanta. When they move them out of one market they have other places to put them or they could phase out or sell some of them.

Question for some of you airline gurus: What do the airlines do with all the planes during down times? Just park them? What about the crews that operate them?

Take for instance Delta/Atlanta. We have had 2 mainline flights per day, but for a couple months we may go down to 0 mainline flights. Presumably other similarly serviced cities on Delta/Atlanta will go down some mainline flights during the down period. As an example, if OKC, Tulsa, Omaha, Little Rock, Austin, etc. (just examples) all lose on average 2 mainline flights per day, that adds up to a lot of jets parked in Atlanta.

Depends on the situation. A pull down here can allow for them to increase capacity where seasonably it is higher during that time. They also have the ability to schedule maintenance during such down periods to where an aircraft won't be on the ground long - if it can help it. Some exceptions to the rule of course. Allegiant, a very profitable low fare airline/travel company, will park planes on Tuesdays to get maintenance done across its fleet (for the most part). However, they also own the planes out right - they pay cash for everything - and this keeps their costs down. They don't have to worry about monthly leases that need to get paid and if things slow down, they'll just park the aircraft in Vegas for a bit.

Delta specifically though can be a combination of the above and also using the pull back in a few markets to cover the retirement of the original DC-9s that are still operating from Northwest.

I know Allegiant tends to focus on smaller cities for their service, but with 757's entering the company soon and the possibility of them going to Hawaii, what are the odds that we could see a flight or 2 a week during the summer season here? Could OKC handle something like this? For some reason I don't see the 757s being used to fly to towns like Abilene Texas or places like that.

I know Allegiant tends to focus on smaller cities for their service, but with 757's entering the company soon and the possibility of them going to Hawaii, what are the odds that we could see a flight or 2 a week during the summer season here? Could OKC handle something like this? For some reason I don't see the 757s being used to fly to towns like Abilene Texas or places like that.

They won't touch OKC right now with a ten foot pole because of Southwest. I think they would have a decent chance at making Florida work out of here, simply because of them being a well rounded travel company - not just an airline. However, they have a model that works great serving other small and medium cities to vacation hot spots and filling 80-95% of the plane.

It is pretty strange to see this huge empty spot in Oklahoma and most of Texas for them. Maybe some day.

Allegiant is a niche airline-it makes money by flying between the vacation destinations and cities that don't have nonstops to/from those destinations, but have enough demand to profitably fill an MD 82/83. At the same time, these cities also don't have very many options with other airlines. It also doesn't compete directly with Southwest or other carriers on many routes-you'll find many cities served especially in the Rockies in MT. and ID. where Southwest avoids, but those which are served quite generously by Allegiant.

On the www.flyokc.com website, they have an ad for the new OKC-SFO service on UA on the homepage. I know for a fact they are working on ads to be displayed and distributed by the chamber of commerce and dept. of airports since UA does qualify for the advertising assistance since it is a new route to a coastal city.

Also would like to mention that Atlantic is doing real well at OKC. Their ramp is full of bizjets most days, mostly because of their contract with CHK. They recently expanded their parking lot, and is still full most days.

On the www.flyokc.com website, they have an ad for the new OKC-SFO service on UA on the homepage. I know for a fact they are working on ads to be displayed and distributed by the chamber of commerce and dept. of airports since UA does qualify for the advertising assistance since it is a new route to a coastal city.

I'm already seeing more interest in this route than I expected from both local traffic and connection possibilities. I think it's going to do well.

It seems to be following a very similar pattern that AA's LAX-OKC flight did when it was about to start. Seats are not quite falling off the shelves, they are selling though. And there are some strong days and then some very weak days. Front of the airplane seems to be selling "OK". As this route matures, and hopefully it matures as quickly as AA's LAX-OKC did and it will go to 2x. It has potential to go 2x.

It seems to be following a very similar pattern that AA's LAX-OKC flight did when it was about to start. Seats are not quite falling off the shelves, they are selling though. And there are some strong days and then some very weak days. Front of the airplane seems to be selling "OK". As this route matures, and hopefully it matures as quickly as AA's LAX-OKC did and it will go to 2x. It has potential to go 2x.

OKC-SFO was a route that has been desired for a long time. Now if we could just get jetBlue to start non-stops from OKC to JFK.

jetBlue's focus seems to be in the Carribean for the time being. No new domestic cities in 2011. The airport has been having meetings with jetBlue, though. But meetings are just that....doesn't mean they are really "talking."

In November we gain a mainline flight on United to Denver. It is off and on depending on the days but should average to 2 mainline trips per day to Denver. That 2nd mainline flight is a direct flight to LAX, so they might be trying to add some seats to fight AA a little bit. It is direct though, so not a "non-stop".

The "December Anomaly" is still in the schedule with a bare bones schedule to all of United's destinations from OKC for the first 2 weeks of December. This will most likely be corrected though as December gets closer.

Surpised we didn't see Southwest add an OKC - ATL flight.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.com/airlines/southwest-to-begin-service-at-atlanta-in-february-2012/

Surpised we didn't see Southwest add an OKC - ATL flight.

http://www.airlinesanddestinations.com/airlines/southwest-to-begin-service-at-atlanta-in-february-2012/

It's not that surprising given that they basically just took over Airtran's routes. The only new nonstop destination is Austin. It might be something they could consider later, however, depending on demand.

We won't see ATL service on WN until the integration is complete. So maybe 2013.

We won't see ATL service on WN until the integration is complete. So maybe 2013.

I've already been seeing some much lower fares between OKC and ATL on DL so the WN effect is already occuring.

It's not that surprising given that they basically just took over Airtran's routes. The only new nonstop destination is Austin. It might be something they could consider later, however, depending on demand.

So Air Tran (FL) will just drop all its service on these routes? I thought the WN service was on top of what FL already offers, not a complete replacement since WN's frequencies are just 2-3 daily (total of 15 daily).

I've already been seeing some much lower fares between OKC and ATL on DL so the WN effect is already occuring.

The Southwest effect has been dead for years. On average they are higher in price than most other airlines. Could DL be preemptively lowering fares, sure. However, I doubt we'll see Southwest bring a consistent lowering of the fares on the route. If anything, the dip will end and things will go back up and level off if/when WN starts service on the route.


So Air Tran (FL) will just drop all its service on these routes? I thought the WN service was on top of what FL already offers, not a complete replacement since WN's frequencies are just 2-3 daily (total of 15 daily).

I'm with you on the belief that these are just additions to what FL is currently offering. It will be awhile until the code share will start and flights will be marketed jointly.

The Southwest effect has been dead for years. On average they are higher in price than most other airlines.

As much as I like and frequently fly SW they are just another money grubbing major carrier. Altruism about SW needs to go the way of the Dodo bird.

venture I agree with you the last six or seven flights I've taken over the past year the quote "main line carriers" have had better fares than SW. They are not the discount carrier they once were but have become a main line carrier themselves and are acting as such.

The Southwest effect has been dead for years. On average they are higher in price than most other airlines. Could DL be preemptively lowering fares, sure. However, I doubt we'll see Southwest bring a consistent lowering of the fares on the route. If anything, the dip will end and things will go back up and level off if/when WN starts service on the route.

Venture, I deal with airfares every day. I understand what you're saying about WN not being the cheapest now in many cases. However, they do still impact pricing in new areas they move into. DL fares to Atlanta have been outrageous for years, especially for business travelers. Many prefer connections over convenience to save hundreds of dollars.

So Air Tran (FL) will just drop all its service on these routes? I thought the WN service was on top of what FL already offers, not a complete replacement since WN's frequencies are just 2-3 daily (total of 15 daily).

All AirTran flights will eventually be rebranded as Southwest. Southwest will add a few routes but, at first, it will just basically be a name change for AirTran.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW548M/history/20110829/2249Z/KSFO/KOKC

And the inaugural San Francisco to OKC flight is in the air!

Tomorrow morning will be the inaugural departure to San Francisco. I am hoping to snap a few pics tomorrow morning. We'll see.

Venture, I deal with airfares every day. I understand what you're saying about WN not being the cheapest now in many cases. However, they do still impact pricing in new areas they move into. DL fares to Atlanta have been outrageous for years, especially for business travelers. Many prefer connections over convenience to save hundreds of dollars.

There is very little impact that AirTran hasn't already delivered. Sure some additional markets are added thanks to WN, but anything east of the Mississippi has already been adjusted to stable air fare.

As far as travelers preferring connections over convenience of nonstop flights. That is highly dependent on the area. There are many cases where lower fares are available from secondary airports, but the masses will always flock to the major hubs - if they are in short driving distance - to get the better assortment of nonstop flights. The Oklahoma market isn't really impacted with such a setup since Dallas is still a 2-3 hour drive away. If DFW was an hour out of OKC it would be a completely different story here.

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/SKW548M/history/20110829/2249Z/KSFO/KOKC

And the inaugural San Francisco to OKC flight is in the air!

Tomorrow morning will be the inaugural departure to San Francisco. I am hoping to snap a few pics tomorrow morning. We'll see.

I really wish FlightAware showed the load factors for flights. It would be cool to see if these first flights are fully booked or not!

There is very little impact that AirTran hasn't already delivered. Sure some additional markets are added thanks to WN, but anything east of the Mississippi has already been adjusted to stable air fare.

As far as travelers preferring connections over convenience of nonstop flights. That is highly dependent on the area. There are many cases where lower fares are available from secondary airports, but the masses will always flock to the major hubs - if they are in short driving distance - to get the better assortment of nonstop flights. The Oklahoma market isn't really impacted with such a setup since Dallas is still a 2-3 hour drive away. If DFW was an hour out of OKC it would be a completely different story here.

Venture, I was talking about fares from OKC to ATL specifically not ATL fares in general. I was also referring to our local traffic when talking about some who are happy to take connections to save money. I remember one instance where someone was originating in DFW. He flew to OKC first and then back to DFW to make a connection to save a significant amount of money.

And Southwest isn't immune to that kind of thing. I also now often find connecting flights to Phoenix to be lower than the Southwest nonstops.

I really wish FlightAware showed the load factors for flights. It would be cool to see if these first flights are fully booked or not!

Load factors should be offered in the monthly stats released by the airport, however they seem to exclude that information. Of course they may not want to release that information, for whatever reason, even though most other airports offer it up easily.

FlightAware is a flight tracking service, it doesn't handle load factors or other aviation-related material. Other than aviation weather that is.

I know for a fact that none of the SFO flights have been fully booked yet. The best I have seen so far was booked 48/66. As the route matures and more people become aware of it, it will fill up more. Today was booked around 40/66.

I'm sure with the number of Sacramentans that have moved here the SFO flight will gain momentum, hopefully.

Here's a change that I overlooked. Frontier is up-guaging one of the flights to Denver on Saturdays only effective Sep 17 through Oct 8. We will have a total of 2 mainline flights and 1 EMB190 flights on those Saturdays.

This shows there is at least some mild interest in adding some more capacity. I do know the current daily mainline flight is doing well, so it wouldn't be a huge surprise to up-guage one more.

Frontier is going to commit to their normal seasonal frequency reduction in January - March reducing the schedule to 2 daily flights. This is the same as last year, but we will still hold on to the mainline flight. The route will probably go back to 3x starting in March.

Did some more digging around, and it actually is 2x mainline 1x E190 Tuesdays and Saturdays Effective from Sept. 13 to Oct 8. And then Tuesdays only Oct. 11 through November 15th.

I think OKC needs direct service to Most if not all Current NBA cities! It is true that most are served right now, but I think cities like Portland, Milwaukee, and Charlotte should be added in near future.

We have decent service to other NBA cities:

http://www.gcmap.com/map?P=OKC-DEN/SLC/PHX/LAX/SFO/IAH/MSP/ORD/MEM/DTW/ATL/IAD/EWR/DFW/DAL,PDX,OAK,LAX,PHX,SLC,DEN,DFW,DAL,IAH,SAT,MEM,SM F,MSP,IND,MSY,MCO,MIA,CLT,ATL,PHL,DCA,EWR,CLE,YYZ, ORD,DTW,MKE,BOS,LGA&R=45NM%40DAL,45NM%40OAK,45nm%40DCA&MS=wls&MR=300&MX=720x360&PM=*

Would be nice if Delta started doing a Non-Stop into JFK from OKC...They are really putting a lot of money into JFK trying to capture more of the NYC market, so it might be something we could see in the future.

I think OKC needs direct service to Most if not all Current NBA cities! It is true that most are served right now, but I think cities like Portland, Milwaukee, and Charlotte should be added in near future.

CLT would work if US Airways ever gets into domestic expansion mode again - which it hasn't really done since combining with America West. PDX has Alaska as it's biggest airline, but not big enough to push for a nonstop flight. MKE...depends on what happens with Southwest/AirTran and Frontier.


Would be nice if Delta started doing a Non-Stop into JFK from OKC...They are really putting a lot of money into JFK trying to capture more of the NYC market, so it might be something we could see in the future.

Most of the expansion soon will be out of LGA after the slot swap with US Airways. Consider that United/Continental has only maintained 1 daily flight to Newark all these years really points to the weakness of the nonstop O&D market. Most are comfortable connecting.

Most of the expansion soon will be out of LGA after the slot swap with US Airways. Consider that United/Continental has only maintained 1 daily flight to Newark all these years really points to the weakness of the nonstop O&D market. Most are comfortable connecting.

Most business travelers prefer the flexibility offered by the options with connections.

CLT would work if US Airways ever gets into domestic expansion mode again - which it hasn't really done since combining with America West. PDX has Alaska as it's biggest airline, but not big enough to push for a nonstop flight. MKE...depends on what happens with Southwest/AirTran and Frontier.



Most of the expansion soon will be out of LGA after the slot swap with US Airways. Consider that United/Continental has only maintained 1 daily flight to Newark all these years really points to the weakness of the nonstop O&D market. Most are comfortable connecting.

I think the biggest problem with the CO/UA flight is that they operate it in a ERJ145....This is a very small, uncomfortable aircraft for a 3.5 hour flight (especially for business/frequent travelers). Taking the route between OKC/Metro NYC for 11 years, I was excited at first when CO started offering the non-stop into EWR and took the flight frequently, however, it got very old sitting in those small, uncomfortable RJ seats after a while. Many RJ pilots will tell you that OKC to EWR is one of the LONGEST flights in a smaller RJ in the US.

After enough long flights, I switched my loyalty back to Northwest (now Delta) and don't mind connecting thru MEM/ATL/DTW as they at least offer a nicer RJ (sometimes even main line) out of OKC such as the CRJ900 or ERJ175 which have first class cabins, taller ceiling heights, wider bodies, etc. In addition, DL offers in-flight wifi web connections on all main line (and soon, all RJ flights), which is a business travelers dream for productivity.

As far as the LGA/JFK scenario, I think JFK wins in the long run. LGA is SUPER INCONVENIENT when it comes to mass transit (since the only mass transit way to get there is via a long N/R train ride to the end of the line and then a random bus ride thru Queens). JFK is super easy with a quick 15 minute LIRR ride out of Penn Station to Jamica Station and then a 5 minute monorail ("Airtrain") ride to the terminals.

In addition, JFK has much more runway space and DL has a much larger presence at JFK taking up terminals 2 & 3 with numerous gates. They are picking up like 15 gates from US Airways at LGA, however, LGA can't handle the kind of traffic that Kennedy can and the terminals at LGA are pretty nasty.

JFK tends to be about $100 to $200 less for OKC flights when compared with LGA/EWR options also.

Bottom line is I think if an airline (such as DL) would offer a non-stop from OKC into EWR/LGA/JFK on a Main Line or at least a nicer RJ, you'd find many of your frequent travelers like myself would opt in immediately.

I agree with Okie Yorker. You have to play in the avoidance factor. Using UA/CO as an example is not very good because they have done nothing to improve the service. People avoid long RJ flights just like they avoid prop flights. I would book a connection in a heartbeat over flying the ERJ for 3 1/2 hours (add in delays, and the time on board is much longer). If the product was upgraded, the willingness to connect for comfort would go down.

[QUOTE=SkyWestOKC;465017] (add in delays, and the time on board is much longer)QUOTE]

You hit the nail on the head there....I could write a book on delayed flights into LGA/EWR/JFK! While none of the 3 Main NYC airports are the busiest in the US, the airspace is by far the most ridiculous spaghetti mess in the world, accomodating upwards of 110 million passangers annually between JFK/EWR/LGA/SWF/ISP/HPN airports and the very close PHL (which is only about 90 miles from EWR). It's always interesting how a cloud cluster with a nice gust of wind over central jersey will send everything in the area into a tailspin and create 90 to 120 min ATC delays at the drop of a hat!

Reason #129 why I love landing at Will Rogers (except when those nasty supercells come thru!)

I think the biggest problem with the CO/UA flight is that they operate it in a ERJ145....This is a very small, uncomfortable aircraft for a 3.5 hour flight (especially for business/frequent travelers). Taking the route between OKC/Metro NYC for 11 years, I was excited at first when CO started offering the non-stop into EWR and took the flight frequently, however, it got very old sitting in those small, uncomfortable RJ seats after a while. Many RJ pilots will tell you that OKC to EWR is one of the LONGEST flights in a smaller RJ in the US.

I believe it ranks around 8th or 9th longest ERJ route for CO/UA. There is definitely no competition between the ERJ-170/190 product and the ERJ-145.


As far as the LGA/JFK scenario, I think JFK wins in the long run. LGA is SUPER INCONVENIENT when it comes to mass transit (since the only mass transit way to get there is via a long N/R train ride to the end of the line and then a random bus ride thru Queens). JFK is super easy with a quick 15 minute LIRR ride out of Penn Station to Jamica Station and then a 5 minute monorail ("Airtrain") ride to the terminals.

My perspective was from the point of Delta right now, not really what would be better for a passenger. JFK is obviously better for passengers.


In addition, JFK has much more runway space and DL has a much larger presence at JFK taking up terminals 2 & 3 with numerous gates. They are picking up like 15 gates from US Airways at LGA, however, LGA can't handle the kind of traffic that Kennedy can and the terminals at LGA are pretty nasty.

Regardless of the gates they are getting, the only thing that really matters is the slots they are getting. They are going to get 116 additional slots for LGA through the US/DL swap deal. Yes there will be some growth opportunity at JFK, but a lot of focus is on LGA.


Bottom line is I think if an airline (such as DL) would offer a non-stop from OKC into EWR/LGA/JFK on a Main Line or at least a nicer RJ, you'd find many of your frequent travelers like myself would opt in immediately.

The problem is...it'll be a CRJ-200 at first if it happens and it doesn't add much over the ERJ-145 and will probably be weight restricted.

I don't think it's guaranteed to be a CRJ-200. I think there is a good chance, if it happened, that they'd use a CRJ-700.

On a totally random off topic....I was pretty impressed by an airline I flew last week on a flight from EWR to Toronto....."Porter Arilines". It's all regionals (actually, large turbo probs (bombradier's) that were relatively comfortable and the service was amazing....All coach, but they used glassware and even gave us a meal for the short 80 minute flight between Tortonto & EWR. They fly between BOS/EWR/ORD and a few other cities and Canada....Super cheap too (like $70 each way!).

I don't think it's guaranteed to be a CRJ-200. I think there is a good chance, if it happened, that they'd use a CRJ-700.

As long as there isn't an issue with aircraft availability, probably...but I'm not sure they would want to dump a 70-seater on it from the start. However, it seems to have worked for UA to LAX and IAD.

And UA to SFO. AA to LAX, etc.

Frontier loaded their schedule extension to May 10 this morning.

We will remain at 2 daily flights (1x A319 1x E190) to Denver until May 1, when we return to 3x daily flights (2x A319 1x E190).

Frontier loaded their schedule extension to May 10 this morning.

We will remain at 2 daily flights (1x A319 1x E190) to Denver until May 1, when we return to 3x daily flights (2x A319 1x E190).

Can you give a tutorial of how you obtain this info usually (for all or most airliens)? I like knowing all this, especially when I'm trip planning...

I was looking for some flights earlier, which would get me back to OKC on 11/21. I noticed that one of my return options was a connection in Memphis on Delta on a mainline (MD-88). It is flight 1113, leaves Memphis at 2:00, arrives OKC 3:32. Is this just an unusual schedule or is it an equipment upgrade?

Can you give a tutorial of how you obtain this info usually (for all or most airliens)? I like knowing all this, especially when I'm trip planning...

All you need to do is to give your travel agent a quick call. They will have this information at their fingertips to give to you immediately.

I was looking for some flights earlier, which would get me back to OKC on 11/21. I noticed that one of my return options was a connection in Memphis on Delta on a mainline (MD-88). It is flight 1113, leaves Memphis at 2:00, arrives OKC 3:32. Is this just an unusual schedule or is it an equipment upgrade?

For right now, that appears to be just a one time occurrance. No other dates are showing the upgraded equipment. It could be due to scheduled aircraft maintenance or repositioning.

@brianinok

Appears to only be a one-time segment. The a/c will fly from MEM to OKC to MSP. Will only fly on Nov 21.

This is just adding some extra capacity to the market for the holiday travel week. I can't seem to find the flights replicated anywhere else in the schedule. I'll dig through them some more tomorrow, though.