If you watch the show, are you more on Junior's side, or Senior's?

I can see Sr's pov the disrespect an all,but I'm gonna have to go with Jr.!

You don't think Jr. has a piss-poor work ethic?

^^Yea I do,when he worked for OCC but now that he owns his own comapany you can see that he works harder!What is wrong of Junior is that he stole an OCC client to build a bike!

^^Yea I do,when he worked for OCC but now that he owns his own comapany you can see that he works harder!What is wrong of Junior is that he stole an OCC client to build a bike!

Yeah, I pointed that out on another board, but everyone's arguing that the company came to him, not vice versa.

Sr. is a douchebag... Jr. all the way!

Sr. is a douchebag...

How so?

I feel a little sorry for Senior in some ways but overall I am siding with Junior. I agree that Junior had a pretty bad work ethic when he was at OCC but it seems that it HAS improved somewhat (still a lot of room for improvement) since launching his own company but he's the boss now - he pays people to do most of the work for him. From what I've seen, Senior seems to like to spy and gossip about Junior/Junior's business. It's like he's thriving on the drama, whereas Junior seems to just want to put it to rest. I do feel sorry for Senior because I think that Mikey is kind of jerking him around a little by playing both sides of the fence...giving him hope, trying to communicate with him, then backing off. Mikey just seems to be leading him on. With regards to the latest issue of the supposed client stealing, on the episode that started all that the client stated to the camera that they had considered both OCC & Junior and decided that Junior was a better fit for them. They approached Junior, not the other way around, so I can't see where Senior has any room to make such a big deal out of it.

Didnt he miss his sons wedding?!? I'm not an avid watcher, but the episodes I did watch, his behavior was off-putting.

First off...they're BOTH wrong. Jr didn't appreciate the work that Sr had put into the business in order to build it to the point where he could even afford to hire Jr. And Sr didn't appreciate the designs that Jr brought to the business. Now though, I side with Jr. He seems like he wants to put this behind them and run separate businesses. Sr seems to want to hurt Jr for some reason. I kinda think it's a macho thing where the old lion is too proud to admit that he's been passed by.

Junior.

First off...they're BOTH wrong. Jr didn't appreciate the work that Sr had put into the business in order to build it to the point where he could even afford to hire Jr. And Sr didn't appreciate the designs that Jr brought to the business. Now though, I side with Jr. He seems like he wants to put this behind them and run separate businesses. Sr seems to want to hurt Jr for some reason. I kinda think it's a macho thing where the old lion is too proud to admit that he's been passed by.

I think JR. disrespected him constantly. It was SR's shop, like it or not, and JR. didn't HAVE to work there. He came and went as he pleased, was always late, left for haircuts and real estate closings, etc, and was often absent when needed. He talked back to his father constantly, and ignored everything he told him to do. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because his daddy owned the business. Could you see Rick or Vinnie behaving like that and getting away with it?
That being said, I think you're right about Sr. being too hard to let his defenses down. Frankly, I think the reason he still tries to keep the conflict going is that deep down, he still wants a relationship with JR and Mikey, and in his dysfunctional way, the only thing he knows how to do is to keep stirring that pot.

Does it matter? Being mainly another 'reality' pile, isn't it pretty much a redneck version of Survivor sans any cuties?
Dinna know there had been a split. But hey, if it gets fan choosing sides, it apparently was the right script change.

It matters to those who like or watch the show or like motorcycles/Choppers,and these builders are hardly redneck they are from New York and Thanks for your input!

I have not watched the most recent seasons where most of this went down but am surprised they were able to continue working together as long as they did.

Does it matter? Being mainly another 'reality' pile, isn't it pretty much a redneck version of Survivor sans any cuties?


I guess not, if you're accustomed to looking down on people who don't fit into your preferred demographic. The split hardly appears to be "scripted," as SR has a lawsuit filed against JR.

Would that be the suit that was quietly settled some time last month? Or some other suit? In any event, if such a show entertains, then enjoy. That's what the folks who really dig Survivor, Biggest Loser, Dance this or that, Idol or Potter or Twilight do, so yeah, I suppose I can see where it could happen that some people might get wrapped up in Team Paul or Team Paulie.

Vaaaaaroooom to your heart's content.

Would that be the suit that was quietly settled some time last month? Or some other suit? In any event, if such a show entertains, then enjoy. That's what the folks who really dig Survivor, Biggest Loser, Dance this or that, Idol or Potter or Twilight do, so yeah, I suppose I can see where it could happen that some people might get wrapped up in Team Paul or Team Paulie.

Vaaaaaroooom to your heart's content.

OK,Whats your favorite show?All those shows but Harry Potter and Twilight are game reality shows that the contestants win a prize,American Chopper has The same cast every season and there is no prize!I will agree that alot of the series is scripted somewhat!

Would that be the suit that was quietly settled some time last month? Or some other suit? In any event, if such a show entertains, then enjoy. That's what the folks who really dig Survivor, Biggest Loser, Dance this or that, Idol or Potter or Twilight do, so yeah, I suppose I can see where it could happen that some people might get wrapped up in Team Paul or Team Paulie.

Vaaaaaroooom to your heart's content.

Got a link? I've been surfing the web last few weeks and haven't found a conclusion to the lawsuit. Not that settling a suit makes anything any less legit.

American Chopper is proof of why you should not start a business with family members. If you do, you need sit down together and decide what roles each person will play and leave well enough alone. Senior's problem is that he think's Jr. should obey and follow him in lock step just as most fathers do of their children. Once your kids reach adulthood the game changes. A father can no longer expect their child to 100% obey them once they become an adult.

It seemed like Senior spent more time picking fights on stupid stuff then actually stepping in to lend a hand to speed up the process. He reminds me of the old school boss that has pretty much become exitinct in today's workplace. In today's workplace a boss cannot blow their top over every little cotton picking thing. If they do blow up, they have to use tact and offer solutions to the problem. Bosses that are hard asses never last because they have issues retaining quality people. Today's workers will only take so much before they leave for other jobs.

If you happen to notice Jr. is getting a taste of his own medicine because one of his own employees is pulling the same crap he did (coming in late, being mouthy).

The two need to be careful and get this little squabble settled. Otherwise there business might just go down the tubes. There are too many people out there doing what they do (a few were there suppliers and figured out they could do the same thing with less drama). Many motorcycle riders are opting for local shops vs. OCC and West Coast Choppers. Just simply because it is easier to take the bike back to the local guy if they have problems. Sometimes being in tight with the local guy can save you a few dollars if you willing to throw a little work his way by refferals.

The only way I think they will solve it is by working together in seperate locations Junior could do the designs and a few side projects of his own. Senior can do assembly with a few projects of his own on the side.

The two have proven they cannot work together on the same site. I am suprised they have not lost any of their employees based on the tantrums each has thrown. I don't care how much I am making or how much notoriety I have, I would not continue to work for someone who throws tantrums all the time. As soon as a new job was found, I would be out of there.

American Chopper is proof of why you should not start a business with family members. If you do, you need sit down together and decide what roles each person will play and leave well enough alone. Senior's problem is that he think's Jr. should obey and follow him in lock step just as most fathers do of their children. Once your kids reach adulthood the game changes. A father can no longer expect their child to 100% obey them once they become an adult.

It seemed like Senior spent more time picking fights on stupid stuff then actually stepping in to lend a hand to speed up the process. He reminds me of the old school boss that has pretty much become exitinct in today's workplace. In today's workplace a boss cannot blow their top over every little cotton picking thing. If they do blow up, they have to use tact and offer solutions to the problem. Bosses that are hard asses never last because they have issues retaining quality people. Today's workers will only take so much before they leave for other jobs.

If you happen to notice Jr. is getting a taste of his own medicine because one of his own employees is pulling the same crap he did (coming in late, being mouthy).

The two need to be careful and get this little squabble settled. Otherwise there business might just go down the tubes. There are too many people out there doing what they do (a few were there suppliers and figured out they could do the same thing with less drama). Many motorcycle riders are opting for local shops vs. OCC and West Coast Choppers. Just simply because it is easier to take the bike back to the local guy if they have problems. Sometimes being in tight with the local guy can save you a few dollars if you willing to throw a little work his way by refferals.

The only way I think they will solve it is by working together in seperate locations Junior could do the designs and a few side projects of his own. Senior can do assembly with a few projects of his own on the side.

The two have proven they cannot work together on the same site. I am suprised they have not lost any of their employees based on the tantrums each has thrown. I don't care how much I am making or how much notoriety I have, I would not continue to work for someone who throws tantrums all the time. As soon as a new job was found, I would be out of there.

I guess I'm not "with the times," because in my mind, the founder and owner of the business is the boss and can call the shots, and doesn't have get in there and "lend a helping hand."
Notice that SR. doesn't blow up at the other employees? Its because they know their daddy isn't the owner, and they won't be able to get away with coming and going as they please, and ignoring the boss' orders. Hence, they stay busy, and follow SR's rules, which results in the fact that he doesn't have yell at them or chew them out.
I have a strong hunch that had JR. simply done what SR told him to do, these blow-outs wouldn't have become prominent. Frankly, I would have fired the brat long before SR.
"Today's workers will only take so much before they leave for other jobs." Hmmm... I'll be polite and not speak my mind on that one...

I agree with what your saying in regards to bosses. However, you have two generations going on three that a stern talking to or screaming session (lack of a better term) does not even phase them.

They should have never gone into business together in the first place. They new the dynamics of their relationship going into the deal. The only way a father and son business can work is when each has their own area of responsiblity and the two don't cross. There also has to be the divine understanding that at work it's business outside of work were family and we keep the two seperated.

Junior and Seniors relationship is exactly why most employers have nepotism policies in place that ban family members from working in the same department or working there period. When I applied for a job with City of Midwest City a few years back they had a waiver to sign that stated that you cannot work for them if one of your family members was a current or recently retired city employee.

Managers will always give their kids lee way until it reaches extremes well past the point they would fire everyone else. Employees with family connections in management sooner or later develop a "I can't get fired attitude." The "I can't get fired attitude" was the reason why Junior did the things he did.

For mattB

I saw a blurb on it somewhere. But as blurbs are blurbs, I took a moment and looked at the NY case site, ecourts.com, which confirmed the case has been disposed of as of 02/23.

remember that Junior did own a chunk of the company, which is what the lawsuits are about. So he wasn't your typical employee

IMO Sr is more worried that Jr fails than anything else. Trying to steer vendors and clients away, to make sure he fails, is a little over the top. If I'm not mistaken, he has no relationship with any of the 3 of his sons at this time. That seems to point to him as the crux of the problem. The lack of work ethic demonstrated by Jr and Mikey are problems that he should have addressed earlier in their lives. He's kinda reaping what he's sown at this point.
That being said, it is entertaining to watch Jr deal with someone who is as mouthy and disrespectful as he is.

In as much as Sr. drove Vinnie to quit, I view this as a testament to Sr. being a giant A-hole. Sr. is the stereotype dry drunk.

remember that Junior did own a chunk of the company, which is what the lawsuits are about. So he wasn't your typical employee

20%, Which SR. simply gifted to him.

IMO Sr is more worried that Jr fails than anything else. Trying to steer vendors and clients away, to make sure he fails, is a little over the top. If I'm not mistaken, he has no relationship with any of the 3 of his sons at this time. That seems to point to him as the crux of the problem. The lack of work ethic demonstrated by Jr and Mikey are problems that he should have addressed earlier in their lives. He's kinda reaping what he's sown at this point.
That being said, it is entertaining to watch Jr deal with someone who is as mouthy and disrespectful as he is.

You mean Odie?

In as much as Sr. drove Vinnie to quit, I view this as a testament to Sr. being a giant A-hole. Sr. is the stereotype dry drunk.

How did you arrive at the conclusion that SR. drove Vinnie to quit? I remember watching the second to last episode he was on... he was pointing the camera man to JR. and some of the other guys standing around cutting up, saying, "Look at this.."

How did you arrive at the conclusion that SR. drove Vinnie to quit? I remember watching the second to last episode he was on... he was pointing the camera man to JR. and some of the other guys standing around cutting up, saying, "Look at this.."

I arrived at this conclusion by noting that Vinnie left OCC with Cody to open his own job. I speculate it was due to not getting paid what he felt he was worth or unappreciated for what he did. Note at the end of the show when Vinnie left, Sr.'s comment was "anybody can be replaced". Possibly the discord in the OCC shop tween father and son could have also played a role as he was left to do the work while they argued. When Jr. opened his own shop Vinnie cast his lot with Jr. Add it all up and I come to the conclusion that Senior was the factor on why he left.

You mean Odie? Yeah, up until he fired him. I just can't see trying to sabotage my sons business no matter how upset I was with him. Since they can't work together, you would think he be pulling for him to be successful on his own. That seems to be the problem Mikey has with Sr also.

Sr. is the reason that Jr. has made alot of money and gotten alot of recognition. If it wasn't for Sr. Jr. would be just another welder. That being said Sr. shouldn't try and hinder his son's business.

I arrived at this conclusion by noting that Vinnie left OCC with Cody to open his own job. I speculate it was due to not getting paid what he felt he was worth or unappreciated for what he did. Note at the end of the show when Vinnie left, Sr.'s comment was "anybody can be replaced". Possibly the discord in the OCC shop tween father and son could have also played a role as he was left to do the work while they argued. When Jr. opened his own shop Vinnie cast his lot with Jr. Add it all up and I come to the conclusion that Senior was the factor on why he left.

He never said so, but as I've said, he did comment on the other employees slacking off. He never mentioned pay on the show or off, to my knowledge. You're leaving out the part of SR's quote where he said, "I've seen a number of GOOD employees come and go. They can be replaced." Did you ever see SR. twisting off on Vinnie? No, because he was a grown man who did his job, unlike SR's two brats. Vinnie started his own shop before tossing in with Jr. For all we know, his shop wasn't doing too well. There's a lot of assumption going on here.

Yeah, up until he fired him. I just can't see trying to sabotage my sons business no matter how upset I was with him. Since they can't work together, you would think he be pulling for him to be successful on his own. That seems to be the problem Mikey has with Sr also.

Frankly, I think the jabs at junior are SR's tough-guy dysfunctional way of trying to get his attention. I think deep down, he still wants a relationship with he and Mikey.

Sr. is the reason that Jr. has made alot of money and gotten alot of recognition. If it wasn't for Sr. Jr. would be just another welder. That being said Sr. shouldn't try and hinder his son's business.

I agree with that. In fact, I was laughing when I watched that episode. Here's Paulie firing a guy for a lot of the stuff he did when he worked under his father.

Ok, Im watching the show now.. I don't know if it's a new episode or not but the two are working together. I was wondering if they kissed and made up already?

Ok, Im watching the show now.. I don't know if it's a new episode or not but the two are working together. I was wondering if they kissed and made up already?
That would be a rerun.

Thought so..

Frankly, I think the jabs at junior are SR's tough-guy dysfunctional way of trying to get his attention. I think deep down, he still wants a relationship with he and Mikey.

I kind of agree in that I think a lot of the bickering between SR and JR is probably just the way they've always related to each other.

I think JR. disrespected him constantly. It was SR's shop, like it or not, and JR. didn't HAVE to work there. He came and went as he pleased, was always late, left for haircuts and real estate closings, etc, and was often absent when needed. He talked back to his father constantly, and ignored everything he told him to do. The only reason he got away with it for so long was because his daddy owned the business. Could you see Rick or Vinnie behaving like that and getting away with it?
That being said, I think you're right about Sr. being too hard to let his defenses down. Frankly, I think the reason he still tries to keep the conflict going is that deep down, he still wants a relationship with JR and Mikey, and in his dysfunctional way, the only thing he knows how to do is to keep stirring that pot.

And you dont think that all the petty arguments and senseless drama was what the producers asked them to display for the show?!?!

I saw Paul Sr. go off on Vinnie on one episode where Vinnie was highly upset. Paul Sr. later apologized to Vinnie. It is my understanding there was bad blood between Paul Sr. and Vinnie after Vinnie left. Do we really know that Paul Jr. had a bad work ethic, or is that just the impression we get from his father's tirades? The bikes Paul Jr, worked on were custom bikes that went anywhere from $150,000 to $1,000,000. He designed them and did a lot of the work on them. How do we know when he showed up late because he had to go to the dentist that he did not make up for it later? From what I saw on the show, Paul Jr. did good work. It always bothered me that Paul Sr. rode Jr. hard, yet laughed at everything Mikey did. I am still trying to figure out what Mikey's role was in the shop other than answering the phone and providing comedy relief.

By the way, does everyone realize that the bodies for the bikes came from Oklahoma City until the past few years? Vinnie and Rick appeared at the Thunder Cycles place on Memorial Road to sign autographs when it opened as a result of that connection. I watched American Chopper regularly the first few years it was on then started to lose interest the last year. I have seen the new show a couple of times and hope Paul Sr. and Paul Jr. can work things out.

Bigray in Ok

He never said so, but as I've said, he did comment on the other employees slacking off. He never mentioned pay on the show or off, to my knowledge. You're leaving out the part of SR's quote where he said, "I've seen a number of GOOD employees come and go. They can be replaced." Did you ever see SR. twisting off on Vinnie? No, because he was a grown man who did his job, unlike SR's two brats. Vinnie started his own shop before tossing in with Jr. For all we know, his shop wasn't doing too well. There's a lot of assumption going on here.

V-Force website seems to confirm that Vinnie is still in businesss there as well. Just sayin'.

And you dont think that all the petty arguments and senseless drama was what the producers asked them to display for the show?!?!

No, I don't. These guys build choppers, not act. I suspect they couldn't act their way out of a wet paper bag. After the first "tiff" was filmed and recorded, SR. was reportedly furious with producers about airing the "dirty laundry. He calmed down when they told him that show scored highest ratings ever for one of Discovery's shows. Secondly, the lawsuit is real. The courts would frown upon a "fake" suit filed to boost ratings.

I saw Paul Sr. go off on Vinnie on one episode where Vinnie was highly upset. Paul Sr. later apologized to Vinnie. It is my understanding there was bad blood between Paul Sr. and Vinnie after Vinnie left. Do we really know that Paul Jr. had a bad work ethic, or is that just the impression we get from his father's tirades? The bikes Paul Jr, worked on were custom bikes that went anywhere from $150,000 to $1,000,000. He designed them and did a lot of the work on them. How do we know when he showed up late because he had to go to the dentist that he did not make up for it later? From what I saw on the show, Paul Jr. did good work. It always bothered me that Paul Sr. rode Jr. hard, yet laughed at everything Mikey did. I am still trying to figure out what Mikey's role was in the shop other than answering the phone and providing comedy relief.

By the way, does everyone realize that the bodies for the bikes came from Oklahoma City until the past few years? Vinnie and Rick appeared at the Thunder Cycles place on Memorial Road to sign autographs when it opened as a result of that connection. I watched American Chopper regularly the first few years it was on then started to lose interest the last year. I have seen the new show a couple of times and hope Paul Sr. and Paul Jr. can work things out.

Bigray in Ok

The times when SR. went off on other employees were the exception, and not the norm. We DO know that JR. was regularly late, and left for personal reasons. Sr. never let any of these incidents go, and when he confronted JR about them, he never denied being late, but rather offered up excuses. I remember at least one episode wherein Vinnie is vocally complaining about Jr. having left for a haircut, after we see JR. ON CAMERA saying that he's LEAVING FOR A HAIRCUT. Same thing with the leaving for the real estate closings. Not only does JR announce that he has to close on a house, but the film crew follows him on those real estate jaunts.
Whether or not he stays late is immaterial when the boss demands that he shows up on time. It often left the rest of the crew afraid or unable to proceed without JR's input.
As to your statement regarding Mikey, I wholly agree. His only function seemed to be to convert oxygen to carbon dioxide.
While the frames were made for a time in Oklahoma, I don't think it was Oklahoma City.

So who's "Caddy" bike do you prefer, OCC's or PJD's?

Got them DVR'd, was watching the beginning episode last night when the wife vetoed my selection. I'll have to catch it later.

I liked PJD's a little better. I loved the rear end and the no kick stand look.

I liked PJD's a little better. I loved the rear end and the no kick stand look.

We aren't the only ones. Check out the bids at the auction.

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv/american-chopper/chopper-auction.html

I thought both were really nice bikes but, for what they were supposed to represent(the Cadillac), juniors was pretty superior. I just wish he would have taken Nubs advice and used the pearl white.

Man this is a tough call,both look Awesome and are both very impressive!Sr's is hands down way faster and shoots NOS but Jr's is just Sick and I like the no kick stand air bags soooooo..... I choose PJD!

SICK!!!!!http://americanchopper.thismoment.com/img/gallery/junior_3_bid.jpg

Love the PJD bike but think it would've looked even better in the pearl white & a custom Caddy seat like the one Sr. had.

Hard to pick between the two; maybe an edge to PJD.