That's really not any of your business, I was providing an example that the common mindset is that downtown is dangerous.

I think he was kidding. Lighten up.

My fiance has a place in the suburbs and I am much more worried about crime at her place than on the third floor of my apartment in the middle of the city...

That's really not any of your business, I was providing an example that the common mindset is that downtown is dangerous.

My GF is the same way I live a couple miles north of downtown (Edgemere park area) and my gf (who lives near council/hefner) is the same way. She's always trying to lock my door which I never lock unless I'm going to bed or leaving the house. She somehow thinks the neighborhood is ghetto compared to hers, probably because the neighborhood is 90+ years old. It might have been ghetto 30 years ago, but is fine now.

She somehow thinks the neighborhood is ghetto compared to hers, probably because the neighborhood is 90+ years old.

Yep, so many people automatically associate newness with quality.

I sometimes wonder if the people who prefer the suburbs and cookie cutter homes aren't more often than not those who grew up in dead small towns or older areas of cities and now want a new living experience that they never had as a kid. Conversely, I wonder if those who are attracted to inner city areas are generally people who lived the suburgatory lifestyle where everything is bland and they now crave authenticity and diversity. My point is that I'm interested in the psychological/sociological factors that influence one's living arrangement. I believe there is almost as much correlation between those factors and where one lives as there is between economic/racial factors and where one lives.

My GF is the same way I live a couple miles north of downtown (Edgemere park area) and my gf (who lives near council/hefner) is the same way. She's always trying to lock my door which I never lock unless I'm going to bed or leaving the house. She somehow thinks the neighborhood is ghetto compared to hers, probably because the neighborhood is 90+ years old. It might have been ghetto 30 years ago, but is fine now.

I wish I could say I agree with your philosophy but I think it's always a good idea to keep your door locked no matter where you live. You may never have a problem but things happen and you never want to be in a situation where you look back and say "gee I wish I had locked that door". It doesn't mean you feel unsafe. It just means you're being practical in today's world.

I wish I could say I agree with your philosophy but I think it's always a good idea to keep your door locked no matter where you live. You may never have a problem but things happen and you never want to be in a situation where you look back and say "gee I wish I had locked that door". It doesn't mean you feel unsafe. It just means you're being practical in today's world.

Or maybe you don't live a life worrying about it and nothing happens. Locked doors don't make as big of a difference as you might think. If a criminal is planning on breaking in your house they usually have a plan to get past a locked door.

Or maybe you don't live a life worrying about it and nothing happens. Locked doors don't make as big of a difference as you might think. If a criminal is planning on breaking in your house they usually have a plan to get past a locked door.

Agreed, but if they try when you're at home it can give you a cushion of time to call 911. Witness the Oklahoma girl who recently killed the intruder who broke into her rural home and called 911. If her door had not been locked, the intruders would have been in and on her before she could have done anything.

Agreed, but if they try when you're at home it can give you a cushion of time to call 911. Witness the Oklahoma girl who recently killed the intruder who broke into her rural home and called 911. If her door had not been locked, the intruders would have been in and on her before she could have done anything.

An extremely rare situation to change your life for. I'm not saying you shouldn't lock your door all the time. I just don't think it's as big of a deal as perceived so its not a big deal if others don't. I don't know a single person that's ever had someone just try to open their door when they were at home during the day...

...I sometimes wonder if the people who prefer the suburbs and cookie cutter homes aren't more often than not those who grew up in dead small towns or older areas of cities and now want a new living experience that they never had as a kid. Conversely, I wonder if those who are attracted to inner city areas are generally people who lived the suburgatory lifestyle where everything is bland and they now crave authenticity and diversity. My point is that I'm interested in the psychological/sociological factors that influence one's living arrangement. I believe there is almost as much correlation between those factors and where one lives as there is between economic/racial factors and where one lives.

The authenticity and diversity of inner city living is something that’s discovered afterwards, not craved beforehand… the blandness of suburban life is not recognized until the authenticity of the inner city is experienced.

Those who are attracted to inner city areas might simply want to be closer to the action… or might just want to have a view of something other than stockade fences and cookie-cutter homes.

I believe that the vast majority of suburban dwellers are locked into a paradigm that doesn't allow alternatives.

Unfortunately people have misguided views about downtown. On New Year's me and my girlfriend went downtown to see the fireworks and ball drop
(rise?). Parking was tight all around so I parked by a building in Film Row....literally two blocks from the Myriad Gardens. She thought we were in the hood and we would get attacked, and demanded we try and find somewhere else to park...so we ended up driving around watching the fireworks....

Lame....

Perhaps misinformed instead of lame. Edumacate her. I suspect it's never crossed her mind where risk is highest for her. Between your spot on film row at night on NYE and where she typically parks to go shopping at,oh, any mall in the greater metro, FR would be safer in my opinion. She might not like the notion, but she likely stands a higher risk of being attacked walking to her car with a package or two and purse loosely hanging from her shoulder than she would walking with her guy on NYE from FR across the MBG to go join the masses in celebration.

Generally though, it is safer with more people around and brighter lighting, no matter what neighborhood. Single women need to be aware of their surroundings and act accordingly. We would be doing them a disservice by telling them to ignore it.

I believe that the vast majority of suburban dwellers are locked into a paradigm that doesn't allow alternatives.

Good point. It's interesting to see how that has been ingrained in such a relatively short period of 50 years or so, and to study what informs that paradigm.

Conversely, I wonder if those who are attracted to inner city areas are generally people who lived the suburgatory lifestyle where everything is bland and they now crave authenticity and diversity.

How dare you stereotype me so accurately...

I grew up in Edmond, and have no desire to ever live in the suburbs again.

How dare you stereotype me so accurately...

I grew up in Edmond, and have no desire to ever live in the suburbs again.

Lol. For me it was certainly living in depressing small towns, which interestingly enough led me to be attracted to the new subdivisions when I first came to the city. I always felt there was something more though and then it dawned on me how my whole childhood, when I thought of a city, I thought of the subdivisions of Plano, Norman, Edmond, heck even Amarillo. For those were where the malls and shopping of the "big city" were; subdivisions are what informed my ideas of urbanity, how sad.

Unfortunately people have misguided views about downtown. On New Year's me and my girlfriend went downtown to see the fireworks and ball drop
(rise?). Parking was tight all around so I parked by a building in Film Row....literally two blocks from the Myriad Gardens. She thought we were in the hood and we would get attacked, and demanded we try and find somewhere else to park...so we ended up driving around watching the fireworks....

Lame....
The Retro Metro Okc monthly meeting last night was at the IAO Gallery, 706 W Sheridan Avenue, along Film Row ( a great facility, by the way). After the meeting several of us went next door to have pizza a Joeys (good pizza) and during that time I went outside 2-3 times for smoke breaks, probably half an hour collectively. Never had a concern or worry about safety, even though street lights are not yet present from Project 180. Almost no pedestrian traffic was observed ... one guy riding a skateboard on the street and another walking along a sidewalk and minding his own business. Left Joey's around 9:30 and felt completely safe and secure.

An extremely rare situation to change your life for. I'm not saying you shouldn't lock your door all the time. I just don't think it's as big of a deal as perceived so its not a big deal if others don't. I don't know a single person that's ever had someone just try to open their door when they were at home during the day...

Maybe not so rare. This might cause some to think they should keep their doors locked when at home. Locking a door doesn't mean you're changing your life. It just means you're recognizing that there are bad people on this earth and things happen.


http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/jan/10/bank-bomb-device-nonexplosive/

Maybe not so rare. This might cause some to think they should keep their doors locked when at home. Locking a door doesn't mean you're changing your life. It just means you're recognizing that there are bad people on this earth and things happen.


http://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2012/jan/10/bank-bomb-device-nonexplosive/

Again, one anecdotal case from a different state. This doesn't prove a thing. Would this have been prevented with a locked door? There's no evidence to suggest.

Okay, let me tell you why I felt unsafe. I attended school at Classen SAS in the 90s for middle school and graduated high school in 2004. I am also a skinny, petite female. Since there isn't a parking lot large enough for students, staff, and faculty, I once parked a couple of blocks North of the school. This is where all of the bigger historic houses are. That day I also arrived pretty late, around 9:20 AM. So as I'm on the sidewalk and walking to the school, these two men are coming at me with a knife from the sidewalk on the other side of the street (the east sidewalk). I RUN back to my car, get in, lock the doors, and decide to park in a grassy field closer to the school. I've also had my car broken into while I was at school. I had my radio stolen. Just petty theft, but still...a hassle to get my window replaced.

I continue to volunteer at a clinic in the Epworth Church adjacent to Classen SAS. Like I said earlier, I definitely don't feel safe. It's not an area I would feel safe jogging or walking around.

I grew up living in the area right behind OCU between around 29th Penn and Classen. I attended Oklahoma City Public Schools from elementary to high school. Not a suburbanite...but I am living in Norman now. went to college at OU and just stayed here.

Then YOU should lock the door. I'm sorry that happened to you and if it makes you feel better than lock your door all the time. It's not like I'm saying people shouldn't lock their doors. I lock mine at night, but that's about it. Throughout this discussion I've said you can lock the door, but that everyone should not feel the need to do so.

An extremely rare situation to change your life for. I'm not saying you shouldn't lock your door all the time. I just don't think it's as big of a deal as perceived so its not a big deal if others don't. I don't know a single person that's ever had someone just try to open their door when they were at home during the day...

Here is a home invasion in 2010 in the Plaza District where the homeowner was at home and had to hide in her closet. http://www.koco.com/news/24742214/detail.html

It happens more often than you'd think. At my parents house in what's considered the inner city, this guy came into their house because my mom left the door unlocked while she was gardening.

Again, these are all anecdotal stories... I'll be more convinced when I see some larger studies, statistics. I could post stories of rare occurrences that happen to 1 in 1,000 people all day because there are over 300 million people in this country and almost 4 million in this state. If I started posting gruesome drunk driving stories I could make you rethink ever driving, but what are the actual risks? I still believe they are very low.

Kilgore, people buy insurance for various things as a precaution. I"ve always had homeowner's insurance which would protect me in case of a fire. The house is paid for so it's not a loan company requirement. I've never had a fire but there are "anecdotal stories" about other people who do so I think I'll continue to keep my insurance just in case. If you want to leave your doors unlocked or wide open be my guest. You may never ever have a problem but advising other people to leave doors unlocked isn't wise.

but advising other people to leave doors unlocked isn't wise.

I have not advised people to leave their doors unlocked once in this thread. In fact, I've repeatedly said to do whatever you're most comfortable with. This started with the exact opposite - people were saying you have to lock your door and I disputed that. One final time on the record, do whatever you're comfortable with concerning your own door-locking habits. Lol.

ok... let's steer this back to topic. -M

I took pics yesterday and will post them later today.

This thread delivers.

The pics are in my photos thread, took too many to put in various threads.

I guess the green caught my eye but maybe that was just an artist's way of drawing the glass. Developers have to be careful in that neighborhood in my opinion because it isn't as gentrified as the optimists would hope or as more urban and historic areas are becoming. I'm just mostly afraid a new low rise building might clash with the school.

Well I agree that the best outcome is if this building were built maybe a block away and that the old impressive row of almost authentic brownstones lining the street were renovated instead. Unfortunately, those burnt down. This is about a thousand times better than leaving the site vacant or as parking, which was probably the other likely outcome (if not likelier than an impressive urban development).

So I like the way things unfolded as it is. Plus, I love this building anywhere. I think it's subtle enough to fit in most anywhere (NOTE: not that I truly believe *anywhere*).

Okay, let me tell you why I felt unsafe. I attended school at Classen SAS in the 90s for middle school and graduated high school in 2004. I am also a skinny, petite female. Since there isn't a parking lot large enough for students, staff, and faculty, I once parked a couple of blocks North of the school. This is where all of the bigger historic houses are. That day I also arrived pretty late, around 9:20 AM. So as I'm on the sidewalk and walking to the school, these two men are coming at me with a knife from the sidewalk on the other side of the street (the east sidewalk). I RUN back to my car, get in, lock the doors, and decide to park in a grassy field closer to the school. I've also had my car broken into while I was at school. I had my radio stolen. Just petty theft, but still...a hassle to get my window replaced.

I continue to volunteer at a clinic in the Epworth Church adjacent to Classen SAS. Like I said earlier, I definitely don't feel safe. It's not an area I would feel safe jogging or walking around.

I grew up living in the area right behind OCU between around 29th Penn and Classen. I attended Oklahoma City Public Schools from elementary to high school. Not a suburbanite...but I am living in Norman now. went to college at OU and just stayed here.

Holy crap. I'd find some nice safe suburban enclave and just never leave there if I were you, with your luck. But I will say that everytime I'm in town (which is more often these days) I love to go play tennis at those courts at Goodholm Park, near 23rd/Robinson. Jefferson Park is a higher-crime area than Gatewood, and I always feel perfectly safe playing tennis. In fact I love it because of the diversity, and sometimes I make a new tennis friend. There used to be these neighborhood kids (like 10-12 years old) that would come by and I'd play tennis with them. I think that there's this elderly black gentleman who is giving neighborhood tennis lessons in some capacity.

So to make a long story short, there are a lot of nice people that you can come across on the street as well. I don't believe that crime is any kind of problem at all except in a few specifically bad pockets (Central Park, Classen Ten Penn, for example) which are still bad. Even Central Park is showing modest improvement now. I think places that have a serious crime problem... parts of Moore and MWC, all of Del City, NW 122nd, Lyrewood Lane (worst crime in OKC), and certainly the dark streets surrounding downtown to the west, south, and east.

I also can see how Classen SAS is a bit of a target. Here you have a bunch of fairly eclectic white people who are obviously smart for being kids, but not smart enough to understand some intangible things about life (aka street-smarts), who don't understand what a target it is to have a hundred BMWs parked along a street in the inner city.

Okay, let me tell you why I felt unsafe. I attended school at Classen SAS in the 90s for middle school and graduated high school in 2004. I am also a skinny, petite female. Since there isn't a parking lot large enough for students, staff, and faculty, I once parked a couple of blocks North of the school. This is where all of the bigger historic houses are. That day I also arrived pretty late, around 9:20 AM. So as I'm on the sidewalk and walking to the school, these two men are coming at me with a knife from the sidewalk on the other side of the street (the east sidewalk). I RUN back to my car, get in, lock the doors, and decide to park in a grassy field closer to the school. I've also had my car broken into while I was at school. I had my radio stolen. Just petty theft, but still...a hassle to get my window replaced.

I continue to volunteer at a clinic in the Epworth Church adjacent to Classen SAS. Like I said earlier, I definitely don't feel safe. It's not an area I would feel safe jogging or walking around.

I grew up living in the area right behind OCU between around 29th Penn and Classen. I attended Oklahoma City Public Schools from elementary to high school. Not a suburbanite...but I am living in Norman now. went to college at OU and just stayed here.

What would you say are your top 3 things that would make you feel safe? For example, police walking a beat, street lighting, other people on the street, an abscence of vacant lots, etc...

Well, I just don't think it's appropriate to lambaste a young woman for not feeling safe in a poorly-lit urban environment. I do happen to strongly disagree that there is a unique crime problem in Gatewood. There just isn't.

You can view and compare crime statistics for most neighborhoods in Oklahoma City here: http://www.nacok.org/CrimeReports/index.jsp

Latest pic as of 1/19/2012... glass is installed, brick is starting on the backside

http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1091

Latest pic as of 1/19/2012... glass is installed, brick is starting on the backside

http://www.okctalk.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1091

Am I the only one not seeing a pic?

I see it.

Can't see it

I see it.

Can you re-post it?

Here's the photo:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/18classen.jpg

This is the west exposure showing the masonry work (courtesy Fitzsimmons Architects):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/18classen12612.jpg

Really interested to see the green-ish screen elements go up:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/18classen12612b.jpg

That looks great! Kudos to Brian!

The Fitzsimmons group does great work. Can't wait to see things progress on the Tower Theater.

I sometimes wonder if the people who prefer the suburbs and cookie cutter homes aren't more often than not those who grew up in dead small towns or older areas of cities and now want a new living experience that they never had as a kid. Conversely, I wonder if those who are attracted to inner city areas are generally people who lived the suburgatory lifestyle where everything is bland and they now crave authenticity and diversity. My point is that I'm interested in the psychological/sociological factors that influence one's living arrangement. I believe there is almost as much correlation between those factors and where one lives as there is between economic/racial factors and where one lives.

Very interesting. We've been fortunate to live in a lot of environments. I know I fled my small town (and Oklahoma) desperate to put it in my rear view mirror. Eventually (and several moves later) we live in a somewhat rural environment after finally fleeing Naples, Italy. There's a LOT of psychological factors to consider, to be sure. I love OKC, but don't think I'll ever live full-time in a metro environment, as a reaction to some of my past.

Im going to have to drive by there tomorrow, that looks great! Its a shame these wont be done by the time my lease runs up in April I'de love to move in here or at 1212 in midtown, but I'll have to settle for something else (Hadden Hall maybe!?).

Not that I know, but I would venture a guess that 1212/Hadden and this project are not at the same price-point? These almost seem too nice, although I understand they will also be fairly smallish units. Still I can't fathom these being priced around $700-900/mo, although maybe not much more?

Im going to have to drive by there tomorrow, that looks great! Its a shame these wont be done by the time my lease runs up in April I'de love to move in here or at 1212 in midtown, but I'll have to settle for something else (Hadden Hall maybe!?).

LEVEL? Don't they finish by then?

Not that I know, but I would venture a guess that 1212/Hadden and this project are not at the same price-point? These almost seem too nice, although I understand they will also be fairly smallish units. Still I can't fathom these being priced around $700-900/mo, although maybe not much more?

Sounds about right or slightly low.

Wow, those look great. One of the few times that I thing the real thing looks better than the renderings.

Great project for the neighborhood.

Wow, those look great. One of the few times that I thing the real thing looks better than the renderings.

Agree. Bravo to the developers.

LEVEL? Don't they finish by then?

I'm very interested in LEVEL, from an observer standpoint only. I know this goes against the grain around here, especially when talking about midtown/downtown, but I prefer the smaller buildings to the larger complexes and I prefer midtown to deep duece. I would much rather see midtown fill in with dozens of Hadden Halls/Gaurdians/Midtown Plazas than see each block converted to its own complex circa The Edge or Level.

Now don't take that to mean that I'm not enthusiastic about both The Edge and Level, I really am excited about both. I just prefer the organic growth a bit more than the major project approach.

And yes, I belive the price point for these will be a good bit different than the price point at 1212 or Hadden, but my price point is flexible so I have been paying attention to all of it. I really am disappointed that this project wont be completed sooner, I'm truely impressed by what I have seen so far.

You might want to check out the Claremont (12th and Walker) then. It'll be a little cheaper too. I lived there for a year until last summer and loved it.

Curtis, you're not against the grain at all. Most here are in favor of both kinds of development. There is plenty of room for both but it depends on the site and the economics to determine which is feasible in a particular location.

Seems to be lots of talk that these are going to bit too pricey..

Question: What would everyone like to see as a base price for these apartments if they could choose (obviously be reasonable)

Basically, what would the price have to be for you to sign a lease asap?

Seems to be lots of talk that these are going to bit too pricey..

Question: What would everyone like to see as a base price for these apartments if they could choose (obviously be reasonable)

Basically, what would the price have to be for you to sign a lease asap?

I imagine responses to your questions will be all over the map.

I would *like* to see the apartments on the smaller end (600sf or less) rent for $1.30 to $1.80 per sq. ft. The builder already said that they're looking in the $1.15 to $1.40 per sq. ft. range. and $1.15 to $1.40 per sq. ft. on the higher end (600+). Since they are studio apartments, I would assume they'll be somewhere between 500 and 700 sq. ft. So, $700 to $950 is what I expect to see.

Whether or not they get that will be seen. I could see those prices dropping by about $100.

That being said, I personally would not sink money into an apartment that cost more than about $500/month, so I would never sign a lease there.

Seems to be lots of talk that these are going to bit too pricey..

Question: What would everyone like to see as a base price for these apartments if they could choose (obviously be reasonable)

Basically, what would the price have to be for you to sign a lease asap?

Despite people's concerns about price, OKC is a supply vs. demand market, and right now supply is no where close to demand. These will fill up fast even if the price point is considered high to some. Heck, the Classen Tower a block away has 1beds for $2000/mo. For around $1000/mo these will have no problem. We are only talking a few units.

Despite people's concerns about price, OKC is a supply vs. demand market, and right now supply is no where close to demand. These will fill up fast even if the price point is considered high to some. Heck, the Classen Tower a block away has 1beds for $2000/mo. For around $1000/mo these will have no problem. We are only talking a few units.

There are no 1 bedroom units at the Classen FYI.

There are no 1 bedroom units at the Classen FYI.

And if this is accurate the rates start at $1,550. That's still high for OKC but much less than $2000 even though some go that high.

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Oklahoma/Oklahoma-City/The-Classen/77623/

And if this is accurate the rates start at $1,550. That's still high for OKC but much less than $2000 even though some go that high.


It's pretty accurate. But I feel the tangible and intangible amenities are worth it (for my situation). Been here almost 5 years, since nearly the beginning.

If I was still in OKC, I would put it on my top 3 choices list. You are right, it is on the top end, but there are not a lot of great choices unless you want to mow a lawn or want to drive. I want to be close to a bus line and local food options.

Just one opinion.

What would be your other 2 choices?

So after laying down $280 cash at Farmers to pay my premium, I head over to 18th and Classen to take some photos for Sid. I get that done and I'm at the light on 18th waiting to pull onto Classen with one car ahead of me. There's this business there on the corner and it's impossible for someone to back out with people waiting at the light. That doesn't stop this lady from backing right into the side of my car above the passenger tire. Now I gotta go through all this claims mess, get a rental car, put my car in the shop... but hey it's what you gotta deal with I guess. Here's the photos and panoramas.

http://s83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/

Panoramas
http://www.dermandar.com/user/unfrsakn/

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/IMG_3761.jpg
This one is actually about two minutes before she hit me. The black Murano or whatever that's parked down the street from my white G6.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/IMG_3750.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/IMG_3753.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/IMG_3756.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/IMG_3746.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/18th%20-%20Classen%20Apartments/IMG_3744.jpg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/IMG_3763.jpg
YES!