yep.

It certainly can't afford a Vast type opening.

They need to hit the ground running, and they need some people to stick up and advertise for them.

Agreed. The only reason Vast has a chance of making it is because its one-of-a-kind atmosphere and views. Any other restaurant wouldn't last if they made the same blunders early on.

What exactly were the blunders Vast made?

What exactly were the blunders Vast made?

Blunders may be a bit of an overstatement, but being a nicer restaurant, Vast just did not have a good start. Lots of complaints about the flexible aspects of the dining experience: Service & Food. The Ambiance was obviously great and that probably helped even the worst of dinners. Vast enjoys a unique advantage there and so the service and food will never need to be to die for.

That doesn't port over to Guernsey. If the service and food don't deliver a good quality to price ratio, then people are not going to go out of their way to recommend it. If people don't recommend it, no one is going to talk about it.

At Vast, good or bad experience, the dinner will be talked about because the view has a whole experience/entertainment value on its own.

The Uptown 23rd page needs to really push Guernsey, probably to the point of "favoritism", to make sure that the place establishes a good clientele base, because it's not just off the street such that people can see it and think "I've never been there before, I'll have to go now/sometime".

Anybody have any info on the building on the northeast corner of 23rd and Virginia, right by OCU? Actually, I'm pretty sure it's OCU's building, but I have heard rumors of something called Rehearsals. Possibly a restaurant and bar...

Check page 24 of this same thread, renderings and details:

http://www.okctalk.com/other-urban-development/24994-uptown-23rd-development-24.html

Check page 24 of this same thread, renderings and details:

http://www.okctalk.com/other-urban-development/24994-uptown-23rd-development-24.html

Thanks. I must've missed it in the past.

Any word on "Guyute's?" Will Phish ever stop touring??

Any word on "Guyute's?" Will Phish ever stop touring??

Nope.

No movement whatsoever.

Sign permit application for a Raising Cains on the south side of 23rd just east of Penn.

Another sign going up on the NW corner of that intersection for Gold's Gym.

Sign permit application for a Raising Cains on the south side of 23rd just east of Penn.

That's a lot of chicken choices at that intersection. KFC, Golden Chick, and now Raising Cane's

I'm guessing this will be where the old fireplace and firewood lot was located?

Sign permit application for a Raising Cains on the south side of 23rd just east of Penn.

Another sign going up on the NW corner of that intersection for Gold's Gym.

Glad too see Raising Cains coming. Golds is already open.

I believe it was announced that this is going to be a restaurant named Basil Mediterranean Cafe.

Drove by today and the building was painted an olive green. Should be a good edition to the area.

I am curious if the boarded up homes to the north of what will be The Rise will be either fixed or demolished when work starts.

From OKC.biz:


...a new-construction restaurant is almost ready to open. Guernsey Park is located just off N.W. 23rd behind Cuppies & Joe at 2418 N. Guernsey Ave. Vuong Nguyen, a graduate of Chef Kurt Fleischfresser’s apprenticeship program at The Coach House, will be the executive chef and partner. The restaurant is owned by Four Fathers LLC, and the partners include Nguyen, Marvin Tharasena, Truong Le and Nam Nguyen.

Vuong Nguyen says the menu will be “Asian-inspired” but won’t be limited to Asian food.

I hope Vuong succeeds, I just worry about visibility and promotion. Thankfully 23rd street in Uptown has a strong quality restaurant credibility, so I'm sure the foodie crowd picks up on it quick.

I can't wait to try it. Somehow my daughter from SFO has heard about it and is asking to eat there when she's home in May.

I would love to see something open on 23rd street comparable to 5 & Diner in Tulsa. OKC is incredibly lacking for its size in quality 24-hour spots that aren't the Awful-waffle, Denny's, or IHOP.

Something like Amelie's French Bakery in Charlotte would be nice too, though I am not sure how well the concept would do in OKC. It's very popular with the hipster crowd in Charlotte and is open 24 hours.

I would love to see something open on 23rd street comparable to 5 & Diner in Tulsa. OKC is incredibly lacking for its size in quality 24-hour spots that aren't the Awful-waffle, Denny's, or IHOP.

Something like Amelie's French Bakery in Charlotte would be nice too, though I am not sure how well the concept would do in OKC. It's very popular with the hipster crowd in Charlotte and is open 24 hours.

100% with you on this bchris02. This has been one of my major complaints since I moved here. And I would add that I hope internet be served in any future 24 hour diner in OKC.

100% with you on this bchris02. This has been one of my major complaints since I moved here. And I would add that I hope internet be served in any future 24 hour diner in OKC.

Hopefully as more people are living downtown, most of them probably young and active, the opening of a true 24-hour diner in OKC becomes inevitable.

There are so many things OKC is lacking that the market could more than support, its just finding an entrepreneur willing to invest in it. Hopefully the Pump Bar will be approved and will get the ball rolling on more cool, hip establishments in the 23rd St corridor.

100% with you on this bchris02. This has been one of my major complaints since I moved here. And I would add that I hope internet be served in any future 24 hour diner in OKC.

What if we all solicited local chain Jimmys Egg to open a 24 hour diner Downtown/Midtown or Uptown?

Anybody have any data on what the demand is (quantifiable)? A small place in a well lit and secure area with limited staffing requirements might be able to make it.

Jimmy's Egg is pretty committed to their 6:00 am to 2:00 pm schedule. They tried staying open later on weekends back in 2006 at some stores and reverted to their current schedule pretty quickly. Also, they have a store in the thick of the Barmuda Triangle (Hi-Lo, Fry, Edna's, Speakeasy) that has not responded to late night demand. I think another entity would be more receptive to the idea. In a perfect world, a breakfast diner/meat and three with an Uptown/Midtown twist would be ideal.

Jimmy's Egg is pretty committed to their 6:00 am to 2:00 pm schedule. They tried staying open later on weekends back in 2006 at some stores and reverted to their current schedule pretty quickly. Also, they have a store in the thick of the Barmuda Triangle (Hi-Lo, Fry, Edna's, Speakeasy) that has not responded to late night demand. I think another entity would be more receptive to the idea. In a perfect world, a breakfast diner/meat and three with an Uptown/Midtown twist would be ideal.

If their attempt at changing their hours was staying open later on the weekends, I hope they extended those hours from 2 pm to 2 am. No restaurant does well between 2 and 6, let alone a breakfast/brunch establishment.

They'd be a smashing success from about 10 to 3 in certain locations...they could pilot the experiment at Classen/Expressway.

Methinks they just don't want to deal with drunk people...and honestly, I don't blame them one bit.

Belle Isle IHOP already has that covered, basically across the street. Not sure if I would go against an established situation like that, either.

Saw 2 semi trailers parked in front of the hotel/motel liquidation store in addition to the two uhauls that have been out there for the last few months. Looks like they're getting a lot more serious about moving.

Guernsey Park is bridging the gap
The Food Dude has news and notes from around Oklahoma's culinary scene.


Today might well end up being one of the most important days in Oklahoma City's climb to the culinary mountaintop as Guernsey Park officially opens its doors in fast-surging Uptown.

Guernsey Park, 2418 N Guernsey Ave., won't be real easy to find but it'll be worth the extra frustration of figuring out that it's behind Cuppies & Joe on NW 23 St. Yes, there is retail space in that little cluster behind the aforementioned

Guernsey Park is bridging the gap | News OK (http://newsok.com/guernsey-park-is-bridging-the-gap/article/3811860)

Not sure why the Oklahoman put a picture of a restaurant in Krebs, OK for the Guernsey Park article. I get that page 2 of the article, briefly mentions Lovera's, but the title of the article is Guernsey Park. Come on Joklahoman.

Not sure why the Oklahoman put a picture of a restaurant in Krebs, OK for the Guernsey Park article.

Look at the second page of the article. There is a story on Lovera's Italian Market (picture you talked about) and Pie Junkie.

Not sure why the Oklahoman put a picture of a restaurant in Krebs, OK for the Guernsey Park article. I get that page 2 of the article, briefly mentions Lovera's, but the title of the article is Guernsey Park. Come on Joklahoman.

The article talks about Italian food history in OKC. So there's a connection. But you're right, it's odd. Wish there was a pic of the fascinating building. I toured it with Mike T when we he just about to start redoing it.

I've lived in OKC my whole life and an amateur foodie with an east coast wife so we've tried a lot of stuff around the city. We just tried Guernsey Park last night, we're trying to be discerning, but initial reaction is that this might be the best meal in the $15-$25 price range that you can get here. We just had entrees, but they were phenomenal! Our friends agreed, I really hope this is the new standard in OKC.

Last time I was at the indian buffet I noticed they had some construction dumpsters in the parking lot across the street at Diego's.

I drove by the other day and there is a new sign up for "La Catrina".

Has anyone been ? Maybe they just changed the name...

Maybe its been open for a little while judging by this

La Catrina - Uptown - Oklahoma City | Urbanspoon (http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/46/1746695/restaurant/Uptown/La-Catrina-Oklahoma-City)

Agreed, it would provide a focal point for a legitimate entertainment district. Think something as good or even better than Tulsa's Brady district.

23rd has great potential. I was in the Brady the last few days and it's just booming. 10+ bars with 5-6 regular music venues and lots of restaurants. Lots of people out and about every day of the week (although the great activity in Guthrie Green and the new hotel help). 23rd could have a very similar vibe. I think 23rd has the most potential to be the local, bar hopping district that OKC needs.

23rd has great potential. I was in the Brady the last few days and it's just booming. 10+ bars with 5-6 regular music venues and lots of restaurants. Lots of people out and about every day of the week (although the great activity in Guthrie Green and the new hotel help). 23rd could have a very similar vibe. I think 23rd has the most potential to be the local, bar hopping district that OKC needs.

Yeah, I'm thinking like you. My only worry would be what we've seen happen in other cities. I remember when the West End in Dallas was all new and the "in" place to do the bar hopping, but then a lot of the locals turned to Deep Ellum while the West End still hopped with tourists. Eventually, tourists alone couldn't sustain the West End and Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville won that battle, then they in turn later had to battle Addison/McKinney. But that kind of thing happening here has the potential to be disastrous for Bricktown after so much development. We don't have the kind of tourism that could sustain a district for very long. On the other hand, I don't know, I LOVE the music venue idea for 23rd. There's a lot of potential there no question about it.

Edit to add that I should also point out that the West End is having a sort of rebirth due to its location to VP to the north, but it was dead for a better part of the 2000's.

Yeah, I'm thinking like you. My only worry would be what we've seen happen in other cities. I remember when the West End in Dallas was all new and the "in" place to do the bar hopping, but then a lot of the locals turned to Deep Ellum while the West End still hopped with tourists. Eventually, tourists alone couldn't sustain the West End and Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville won that battle, then they in turn later had to battle Addison/McKinney. But that kind of thing happening here has the potential to be disastrous for Bricktown after so much development. We don't have the kind of tourism that could sustain a district for very long. On the other hand, I don't know, I LOVE the music venue idea for 23rd. There's a lot of potential there no question about it.

Edit to add that I should also point out that the West End is having a rebirth, but it was dead for a better part of the 2000's.

A 23rd St entertainment district would draw a different crowd than Bricktown so the city could sustain them both. What it could not sustain is multiple major districts beyond that in my opinion. It's sad that Tulsa blows OKC away in this area and that people from OKC actually take trips to Tulsa for its urban districts. The market is here if we could just get something going. This venue, the Pump, etc all look very promising towards creating that district we've all been wanting.

If the property owners in Bricktown don't pull their heads out, that every well could happen, but at least hotels and residential options are springing up down there. Those developements and its proximity to deep deuce should ensure its survival. They need to make much better use of the canal though!

If the property owners in Bricktown don't pull their heads out, that every well could happen, but at least hotels and residential options are springing up down there. Those developements and its proximity to deep deuce should ensure its survival. They need to make much better use of the canal though!

Bricktown will survive on its dance clubs, restaurants, and country-oriented venues. It is not and never will be a hipster district.

I agree with you though its so sad that developers have not made use of the canal. Starting out, it had potential to become so much more than it has become.

A 23rd St entertainment district would draw a different crowd than Bricktown so the city could sustain them both. What it could not sustain is multiple major districts beyond that in my opinion. It's sad that Tulsa blows OKC away in this area and that people from OKC actually take trips to Tulsa for its urban districts. The market is here if we could just get something going. This venue, the Pump, etc all look very promising towards creating that district we've all been wanting.

Tulsa definitely has us beat with cool walkable urban districts with Brady, blue dome, brookside, and Cherry St, but we are doing all the right things to turn western, uptown, midtown, and the plaza into solid districts. Bricktown is already there but could definitely continue to improve.

Tulsa definitely has us beat with cool walkable urban districts with Brady, blue dome, brookside, and Cherry St, but we are doing all the right things to turn western, uptown, midtown, and the plaza into solid districts. Bricktown is already there but could definitely continue to improve.

Tulsa's districts sprang up relatively fast after the ball got rolling as five years ago it was just sad. Here's to hoping the same thing will happen here.

Tulsa definitely has us beat with cool walkable urban districts with Brady, blue dome, brookside, and Cherry St, but we are doing all the right things to turn western, uptown, midtown, and the plaza into solid districts. Bricktown is already there but could definitely continue to improve.

Don't forget Deep Deuce and Film Row.

Don't forget Deep Deuce and Film Row.

Agreed. As much as I want to see all these districts flourish, what we need is for one of them to take the lead and become the go-to place for urban, professional-oriented nightlife. To me, the best candidate for that is undoubtedly 23rd St followed closely by Midtown. The Paseo is very cool but it is what it is and there isn't really much room for it to expand.

Agreed. As much as I want to see all these districts flourish, what we need is for one of them to take the lead and become the go-to place for urban, professional-oriented nightlife. To me, the best candidate for that is undoubtedly 23rd St followed closely by Midtown. The Paseo is very cool but it is what it is and there isn't really much room for it to expand.

Midtown is the best long-term candidate. 23rd and 7th-9th & Broadway have the best ability in the short-term.

I don't envision 23rd being a huge area for bars unless the city allows bars to be built going into the cross streets. I think it would be cool for both Western and 23rd if the city would allow homes to be rezoned to bars a la Speakeasy and areas like Rainey Street in Austin.

I don't envision 23rd being a huge area for bars unless the city allows bars to be built going into the cross streets. I think it would be cool for both Western and 23rd if the city would allow homes to be rezoned to bars a la Speakeasy and areas like Rainey Street in Austin.

This was pretty popular in Charlotte as well. Is it not legal in OKC?

This was pretty popular in Charlotte as well. Is it not legal in OKC?

I don't think it's illegal per se, But I think bars have parking requirements outside of downtown, and then there's always the "only certain liquor licenses within 100 yards of a school/church". And even if those requirements are met, they would still have to be rezoned, which I imagine could present a problem.

Yeah, I'm thinking like you. My only worry would be what we've seen happen in other cities. I remember when the West End in Dallas was all new and the "in" place to do the bar hopping, but then a lot of the locals turned to Deep Ellum while the West End still hopped with tourists. Eventually, tourists alone couldn't sustain the West End and Deep Ellum and Lower Greenville won that battle, then they in turn later had to battle Addison/McKinney. But that kind of thing happening here has the potential to be disastrous for Bricktown after so much development. We don't have the kind of tourism that could sustain a district for very long. On the other hand, I don't know, I LOVE the music venue idea for 23rd. There's a lot of potential there no question about it.

Edit to add that I should also point out that the West End is having a sort of rebirth due to its location to VP to the north, but it was dead for a better part of the 2000's.

The West End was a corporate suckhole from day one. Crappy chain restaurants and cheesy bars from the inception. The only bar of interest there was the Starck Club, and that was too good to last.

Any district that experiences growth or rebirth is at risk of falling apart in the organic urban system, but West End sets a high water mark for overall suckage. NW 23rd will be better because it will be real.

Bricktown will survive on its dance clubs, restaurants, and country-oriented venues. It is not and never will be a hipster district.

I agree with you though its so sad that developers have not made use of the canal. Starting out, it had potential to become so much more than it has become.

Yes. Money down the tubes in many ways because of bad planning and nonexistent zoning.

Last time I was at the indian buffet I noticed they had some construction dumpsters in the parking lot across the street at Diego's.

I drove by the other day and there is a new sign up for "La Catrina".

Has anyone been ? Maybe they just changed the name...

Maybe its been open for a little while judging by this

La Catrina - Uptown - Oklahoma City | Urbanspoon (http://www.urbanspoon.com/r/46/1746695/restaurant/Uptown/La-Catrina-Oklahoma-City)

My wife and I eat there quite a bit now. We are big fan's. They have new owners, changed the menue and remodeled the inside. the food is very good (quality) and not over priced.

Don't forget Deep Deuce and Film Row.And the Farmers Market district perhaps?

Tulsa definitely has us beat with cool walkable urban districts with Brady, blue dome, brookside, and Cherry St, but we are doing all the right things to turn western, uptown, midtown, and the plaza into solid districts. Bricktown is already there but could definitely continue to improve.

Don't forget about Automobile Alley as the potential rapidly developing 'peer' to Brookside. :)

I think OKC will get there and it is nice to see all of this happening organically. I agree with Bchris that the rise of these other urban districts would not cause a detriment to Bricktown since they all have a different flair and to a degree, audience where there wouldn't be direct competition. Sure Bricktown has venues and attractions that those other districts would like to have and surely will in the future, but Bricktown is an entertainment district whereas I see the others as urban neighbourhoods. Tulsa doesn't have a Bricktown entertainment district peer, which is where OKC beats them hands down, but those other T town areas cited are urban 'hoods, to which DD, AA, Midtown, Film Row, Uptown, Plaza, and Paseo are quickly and organically gaining their mass on their own. I

n all honesty, I think OKC has the potential to be the big urban city with all of these neighbourhoods going to critical mass (don't forget about the Eastside if it ever gets going, Asian District, and Capital Hill, CC, Windsor, Farmers, Stockyards, Adventure Dist, .....).

Agreed. As much as I want to see all these districts flourish, what we need is for one of them to take the lead and become the go-to place for urban, professional-oriented nightlife. To me, the best candidate for that is undoubtedly 23rd St followed closely by Midtown. The Paseo is very cool but it is what it is and there isn't really much room for it to expand.

I have a hard time seeing 23rd as hipper than Midtown

I have a hard time seeing 23rd as hipper than Midtown

It's not right now, but I think it would take more work to bring Midtown to critical mass than it would 23rd. Also, if 23rd gets this music venue and a few new cool bars to go with it, it will start a snowball effect and 23rd could pass midtown on the 'hip' scale if you will.

I could see Midtown being more professional and 23rd a bit edgier.

Yes 23rd has a slightly more energetic feel....while Midtown seems a little more relaxed and quaint.

I have a hard time seeing 23rd as hipper than Midtown

Midtown is urban and nice but it's not hipster central or anything. Places like Granddad's and BT probably rate a bit higher on the "hipness" scale than, say, Kaiser's Bistro. Just an observation.

Midtown is more urban and more gentrified and diverse, however.

As a resident of Midtown, I can tell you this area is pretty much yuppie central. Go in any Midtown R building parking lot and its Beamer/Benz central. Also its not like the restaurants down here (Ludivine, Packards, etc.) are cheap eats.

For the simple fact its more affordable, I see 23rd taking the hip vibe in the future. Also, Jefferson Park is starting to take on a hipster vibe. Kind of like Gatewood-lite.

Yes, everything in Midtown is pretty expensive in terms of buying or renting and I don't see that changing.

I can see the area immediately adjacent to 23rd and north up to Paseo becoming a fantastic enclave with much more affordable housing.

On a completely different note, current sketchy left over businesses I would like to see disappear from the main retail area in Uptown. For many reasons, but largely because they fail to keep up their property and/or don't provide the type or quality of retail/restaurants that will move the district forward:

All sketchy loan companies
Credit Jewelry
Queens Beauty Supply
Everything on the Q-mart block at 23rd and Robinson
Family Dollar
Truong Thanh (Strange dilapidated multi-colored Asian market)
7 day grocery
Pawn Bargain Center
CSL Plasma
Planned Parenthood (Nothing against this, just not there)
H&R Block
Paseo Church (again, nothing against this...just not on the main drag in uptown)
Churches Chicken (come on, could we at least get a chicken express or Rasin' Cains there?)
Martinez Tires
Carwash at Robinson and 23rd

That Family Dollar just spent a good chunk of money to renovate their store, so they should get some credit for that.

H&R Block is fine, it's just the building they are in.



But you are right, there are still plenty of seedy buildings/businesses that will only stand out more as all the new improvements are made.

I suppose they could go the route of Midtown and basically have the City hold them to certain standards. I imagine that would motivate several of them to sell/move.

That Family Dollar just spent a good chunk of money to renovate their store, so they should get some credit for that.

H&R Block is fine, it's just the building they are in.

But you are right, there are still plenty of seedy buildings/businesses that will only stand out more as all the new improvements are made.

I suppose they could go the route of Midtown and basically have the City hold them to certain standards. I imagine that would motivate several of them to sell/move.Agree, nothing wrong with H&R, just not really a good location for it.

Didn't realize that family dollar is planning to renovate the store. That makes them a little more tolerable.

On a completely different note, current sketchy left over businesses I would like to see disappear from the main retail area in Uptown. For many reasons, but largely because they fail to keep up their property and/or don't provide the type or quality of retail/restaurants that will move the district forward:

Queens Beauty Supply
Truong Thanh (Strange dilapidated multi-colored Asian market)
Martinez Tires


I need to get out and walk this district more to really know, but these 3 seem like rather than closing up shop, they just need to reinvest. They offer the kind of eclecticism that I hope typifies Uptown 23rd.



Planned Parenthood (Nothing against this, just not there)
H&R Block
Paseo Church (again, nothing against this...just not on the main drag in uptown)


If I won the lottery, I'd buy up this block and build an Edge type development, but better. I agree that these tenants are really not right for Uptown anymore.

I suppose they could go the route of Midtown and basically have the City hold them to certain standards. I imagine that would motivate several of them to sell/move.

As crazy as it sounds, If I was concerned with "hipness" I'd be very cautious with how I approached this. This might gentrify the area to the point of not being "hip" anymore. There is a fine balance between seedy, cool and upscale.