Boy isn't that a load of irony.

He obviously thinks that contributing to the vitality of a city is trying to shin a light on his work, that's what this is really about. He obviously doesn't understand how this project as it will kill any sense of street life in this area. The Devon garage retail spaces show just how cold and uninviting this entire block will be. yeah, all of those officer workers coupled with Devon's officer workers won't do anything for the street life. They go to work and stay in those buildings all day long!

yeah, all of those officer workers coupled with Devon's officer workers won't do anything for the street life. They go to work and stay in those buildings all day long!

Yeah because sky-bridges, 2 attached parking garages, and restaurants on the 2nd floor just screams busy street life.

yeah, all of those officer workers coupled with Devon's officer workers won't do anything for the street life. They go to work and stay in those buildings all day long!

And at 5:00 they go home.

Yeah because sky-bridges, 2 attached parking garages, and restaurants on the 2nd floor just screams busy street life.
We'll see. There something wrong with you if you don't think that a 27 story building full of workers won't add to the street life. This is a CBD. Central Business District. Office workers go there to work and then come home. I know a few people who work at Devon that walk around the street during lunch and go to Coney Island to eat. I also sure, the few people I know aren't the only ones who do it.

I support the sky-bridges anyhow and I wish downtown had more of them. I don't mind the restaurant on the second floor either. While that picture you posted is beautiful and I would love to see something like that here, it doesn't belong in the middle of the CBD.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7578/16038574452_4b8baebb02_b.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7482/15853518027_0768538bbb_h.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8663/16039283225_cb7815b252_h.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7469/15853521587_4abe8563f6_h.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7463/16037330821_572b843382_h.jpg

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7514/15419626393_0d9fd7ce21_b.jpg

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8613/15853229849_9ebcca289f_b.jpg

While I was waiting in the Rotunda I noticed the two buildings from the window on a perfect (but cold) day and decided to stroll outside for a while and get some shots I posted above. In the few minutes I was in front of the buildings, two random landscape workers passed by talked about how they were going to be demolished and what a pity it was.

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7465/15419604313_892310828a_b.jpg

If you look straight behind you...

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8677/16039286325_4898a09bc0_h.jpg

And at 5:00 they go home.Like I said, this a business district man. Are you for something like NYC? I am sure people will live on the "outskirts" of the core, and by that I mean Deep Deuce, Midtown etc... but this is right in the heart of downtown. Let's be realistic here. I don't like building probably anymore than you do and hate to see what we're loosing, but are we really expecting something that will add thousands of people to the street 24/7? We are getting what, 800-1000 new people on this block? You're going to tell me they won't add anything to the street life????

Don't forget the tenants of the new residential towers of Clayco will add life after hours to this area

Don't forget the tenants of the new residential towers of Clayco will add life after hours to this area

Not if there is nothing in this area to attract them to.

I support the sky-bridges anyhow and I wish downtown had more of them.

This wins the most ridiculous post of the day award. Cmon now PP.

Not if there is nothing in this area to attract them to.What!? The Myriad Gardens... Bricktown.. Film Row... future development of C2S... restaurants that will extend their hours in the CDB after all of these residential units come online(ClayCo, Civic Center flats, 800 West.. etc.)... there is tons of things to downtown. Especially during the day, and again, when all of the res. units come online, I suspect we'll see a bunch of restaurants that close early extend their hours.

I am excited to see all of this, but I still hate to see what is coming down for what we're getting. It could be a lot better. Hopefully changes will be made in the layout.

Don't forget the tenants of the new residential towers of Clayco will add life after hours to this areaYes. I think area will see a fairly large boost to its street life once the ClayCo and Preftakes tower are completed. It probably won't be like the strip in Las Vegas, but it will be a hell of a lot better than what it their now.

If the parking garages were not directly connected by tunnels and skybridges, sure -- there would be some good street life during the day. But that is not the case. A lot of these workers won't go outside at all during the day. They will get in their car in their home garage, drive to work, park in the parking garage, get in a skybridge to their building, put their lunch in the breakroom fridge, go to their office, work for 4 hours. Go to the breakroom fridge and get their sandwich and banana, go back to their office. Work for 3 more hours. Take the elevator down to the skybridge level, walk to the garage, get in their car, drive home, park in their home garage, and be back inside.

Now that sounds like some amazing streetlife.

Even if they are like me and usually to lazy to pack a lunch regularly, assume they go out at noon for lunch. They are still doing most of the above things.

Now imagine if those people had to walk a block from the garage their company buys space from, there would be opportunities to have convenience stores on corners (like the 7/11's in Chicago), walk up donut shops, quick lunch places, etc.

What!? The Myriad Gardens... Bricktown.. Film Row... future development of C2S... restaurants that will extend their hours in the CDB after all of these residential units come online(ClayCo, Civic Center flats, 800 West.. etc.)... there is tons of things to downtown. Especially during the day, and again, when all of the res. units come online, I suspect we'll see a bunch of restaurants that close early extend their hours.

1) Bricktown is hardly "this area."
2) MBG is not going to enhance street life/interaction after sunset (aka it's closed and dark).
3) Film Row, while close-by and improving, does not currently have nearly the level of pedestrian-friendly spaces that Midtown or DD have.

1) Bricktown is hardly "this area."
2) MBG is not going to enhance street life/interaction after sunset (aka it's closed and dark).
3) Film Row, while close-by and improving, does not currently have nearly the level of pedestrian-friendly spaces that Midtown or DD have.

I agree with that. I meant people walking to Bricktown from the apartments or vice versa. Same thing with Film Row.

If the parking garages were not directly connected by tunnels and skybridges, sure -- there would be some good street life during the day. But that is not the case. A lot of these workers won't go outside at all during the day. They will get in their car in their home garage, drive to work, park in the parking garage, get in a skybridge to their building, put their lunch in the breakroom fridge, go to their office, work for 4 hours. Go to the breakroom fridge and get their sandwich and banana, go back to their office. Work for 3 more hours. Take the elevator down to the skybridge level, walk to the garage, get in their car, drive home, park in their home garage, and be back inside.

Now that sounds like some amazing streetlife.

Even if they are like me and usually to lazy to pack a lunch regularly, assume they go out at noon for lunch. They are still doing most of the above things.

Now imagine if those people had to walk a block from the garage their company buys space from, there would be opportunities to have convenience stores on corners (like the 7/11's in Chicago), walk up donut shops, quick lunch places, etc.

Catch, when it is a nice day, I see a lot of workers out and about during lunch and such. I know a few people do as well. I'm not going to disagree with you that street life wouldn't be better if the tunnels and skywalks weren't there, but I still like them and think they serve their purpose. Now I do think you can go overboard with them.

Now imagine if those people had to walk a block from the garage their company buys space from, there would be opportunities to have convenience stores on corners (like the 7/11's in Chicago), walk up donut shops, quick lunch places, etc.

To go a step further...imagine if they parked in a parking garage placed on the outskirts of the CBD that was serviced by the streetcar, and then took the streetcar to their respective offices.

What I hate about these kinds of projects, is there's absolutely no interest in the public's opinion or any input from citizens of the city. They just do whatever they want because they can. I'm convinced that there is a 10x better layout than this that would make everyone happy or a comfortable compromise but nobody proposes it or is interested. That rendering from KayneMo is as close as I've seen.

What I hate about these kinds of projects, is there's absolutely no interest in the public's opinion or any input from citizens of the city. They just do whatever they want because they can. I'm convinced that there is a 10x better layout than this that would make everyone happy or a comfortable compromise but nobody proposes it or is interested. That rendering from KayneMo is as close as I've seen.

Couldn't agree more.

^^^^ Agreed! The only thing I can think of is they value the corner property above all else and the rest is just the parking the know they will need. It matters not that they could fit the buildings and parking on the property with at most the tearing down of carpenter theater. Yet, I already envision them getting praise at their presentation tomorrow, I hope someone at least asks some questions about why the demolition is required. And Where is preftakes? He owns this property, has he sold it to Hines? What about his vow to not destroy the buss station?

The MBG is basically going to just be one huge plaza for 4 different office towers, a convention center, a basketball arena, and whatever happens to the Cox site.

Seeing KanyeMo model of how this site could be arranged got me to play with paint and this is what I came up with.9783

I stated earlier that I thought the north garage was solely for Devon parking overflow so I included it and gave them their sky bridge since it seems to be important to them. But for the west garage, due to it be smaller in size, they should have 3 or 4 levels underground as well as parking below the tower. That should help get close to that 1,000 spots they had originally planned. Just as Will said, there are ways this site could be done without destroying 3 important pieces of history that are still usable.

^^^^ Agreed! The only thing I can think of is they value the corner property above all else and the rest is just the parking the know they will need. It matters not that they could fit the buildings and parking on the property with at most the tearing down of carpenter theater. Yet, I already envision them getting praise at their presentation tomorrow, I hope someone at least asks some questions about why the demolition is required. And Where is preftakes? He owns this property, has he sold it to Hines? What about his vow to not destroy the buss station?

This is exactly right. They want the building to front the park and be an integral part of the Devon complex directly across the street.

Preftakes is no doubt hanging out with Rainey Williams. They seem to have much in common.

Not if there is nothing in this area to attract them to.

yes there is nothing now but both developments have retail/ and I would assume restaurants/cafe in plans. Just because it doesn't look like La Rambla doesn't mean its not going to attract people.

1) Bricktown is hardly "this area."
2) MBG is not going to enhance street life/interaction after sunset (aka it's closed and dark).
3) Film Row, while close-by and improving, does not currently have nearly the level of pedestrian-friendly spaces that Midtown or DD have.

Not really, they were ice skating under the lights the other night.
Walking through the MBG to and from Thunder games, I'm surprised at the people inside the conservatory, a lot more going on in there after hours than you would think. I've seen wedding parties, etc. In fact, I attended a mid American regional accounting party (social event) there last year after dark.

Not really, they were ice skating under the lights the other night.
Walking through the MBG to and from Thunder games, I'm surprised at the people inside the conservatory, a lot more going on in there after hours than you would think. I've seen wedding parties, etc. In fact, I attended a mid American regional accounting party (social event) there last year after dark.

You're making my point for me. For the few events they do have after dark (the majority of which are private), all activity is drawn in away from the street. There is a reason the winter shoppes were not open after the Thunder 6pm game Sunday night.

I think he thinks Devon is a mid rise too.

Is it not? I thought anything that wasn't a tall building outside of OKC was considered a mid-rise.

Is it not? I thought anything that wasn't a tall building outside of OKC was considered a mid-rise.

I'd like to see what this person looks like.....from a distance.

I'd like to see what this person looks like.....from a distance.He's a horse wearing a human suit disguised as a horse wearing a horse mask. Watch your back.

The MBG is basically going to just be one huge plaza for 4 different office towers, a convention center, a basketball arena, and whatever happens to the Cox site.

Isn't that what was going to happen all along? How does this announcement change that?

It's not that I agree with that premise entirely, anyway. But nothing about this announcement has changed the development that we already knew was coming.

You're making my point for me. For the few events they do have after dark (the majority of which are private), all activity is drawn in away from the street. There is a reason the winter shoppes were not open after the Thunder 6pm game Sunday night.

Some of the Rambles in Barcelona that I've walked and ate dinner on, are like streets but dedicated to the pedestrian public. They do have dedicated bicycle and/or motorcycle lanes. Obviously OKC does not have dedicated streets for pedestrian mingle, and IMO that would be the way to create the street life a lot on this board desires. Just not sure what year something like that will happen here. if ever.
Thinking about it, I don't remember any of them (pedestrian only streets) in their financial district ???

yeah, all of those officer workers coupled with Devon's officer workers won't do anything for the street life. They go to work and stay in those buildings all day long!

Correct. Unless you have meetings, when you have a job you are normally expected to be there throughout the entire day. As LandArchPoke said, Devon has been so kind to connect the garage to the office towers so that many of these workers have never been on the street level.

I work in an office tower 5 blocks north of the state agency that regulates us, and while I walk between the two frequently, my coworkers look at me weird for not driving. This is the white collar reality, and really even in Chicago or NYC I've seen these same coworkers take cabs for just a few blocks.

People are people, what're ya gonna do about it? I have one coworker who is literally on doctor's orders to start walking, and l had to show her "oh the places you can go," literally. Now she loves walking and seeing downtown up close and personal.

yeah, all of those officer workers coupled with Devon's officer workers won't do anything for the street life. They go to work and stay in those buildings all day long!

Devon is designed specifically so they don't have to leave.

Some of the Rambles in Barcelona that I've walked and ate dinner on, are like streets but dedicated to the pedestrian public. They do have dedicated bicycle and/or motorcycle lanes. Obviously OKC does not have dedicated streets for pedestrian mingle, and IMO that would be the way to create the street life a lot on this board desires. Just not sure what year something like that will happen here. if ever.
Thinking about it, I don't remember any of them (pedestrian only streets) in their financial district ???

I worked downtown Tulsa when they closed Main downtown and made it a pedestrian only street. It didn't really work well. But then, there wasn't much to draw them to the street either. People walking from office to office don't necessarily go shopping, sightseeing during the day. They would walk to some restaurants, but they were already walking there. They still got in their cars at the end of the day and drove to their own neighborhoods.

I've spent some time in Barcelona and we don't have anything like las Ramblas here and I don't think we can create it even if we closed off a street to cars. At least we can't until we have a much, much larger population and WAY more tourists.

Devon is designed specifically so they don't have to leave.
Well, some do. If it were me, I would design it the same way. A company should be able to design it the way they want. Forcing a company to design an HQ to where there employees have no choice but the leave if they want something to eat is not right.

Correct. Unless you have meetings, when you have a job you are normally expected to be there throughout the entire day. As LandArchPoke said, Devon has been so kind to connect the garage to the office towers so that many of these workers have never been on the street level.

I work in an office tower 5 blocks north of the state agency that regulates us, and while I walk between the two frequently, my coworkers look at me weird for not driving. This is the white collar reality, and really even in Chicago or NYC I've seen these same coworkers take cabs for just a few blocks.

People are people, what're ya gonna do about it? I have one coworker who is literally on doctor's orders to start walking, and l had to show her "oh the places you can go," literally. Now she loves walking and seeing downtown up close and personal.Well, I personally love walking around downtown. You find things you wouldn't if you were driving. I think just getting people out can change their perspective.

Devon people will stay if they have a reason to stay. Many do for Thunder games. They stay to go out to eat, particularly if they are entertaining business associates. When there are more things to stay for they will stay later and THEN go get their cars and go home. This is chicken and egg scenario. I believe you start businesses that make them want to stay and do business rather than try to force them to.

You do make some good points here. I too wonder how OKC, with all its progress and development within the past 20 years can still be so far behind. I think you are onto something. OKC needs a comprehensive vision for the entire core and a set of standards in place to encourage quality development. While I think JTF's vision is far too idealistic and incompatible with the culture of OKC, a vision could be put into place that encourages urbanism, placemaking, and cohesion and does not restrict development. Ordinances could then be enacted to conform developments with that vision. With that said, such a vision and ordinances would only work if variances aren't granted any time somebody wanted to cheap out i.e. Chase Bank.

So surely that Chase Bank will not be allowed to go forward as planned. That is easy low-hanging fruit for a city that's afraid to deny a building permit for anything.

The problem is too many people remember the crappy days and view anything as an improvement. People who ardently push for change and real progress are seen as negative detractors which disqualifies anyone from making a real difference. I have been harping on these real policy opportunities that OKC has for a looooong time, and I know nothing will ever happen.

It's not that OKC is doomed, it's just that we are our own worst enemy. We talk a lot about what an open and welcoming city it is, which it is if you agree with the powers that be. Then when the same people catch a whiff of "hopey change" it's sayonara don't let the door hit ya, nice knowin ya, etc. OKC really is not a lot of things that it desperately professes. The problem is that the PR consultants don't think that a nice, prosperous, oil-dependent, somewhat elitist, and completely junta-ran city sells as well as the "Big Friendly" (which IMO somewhat implies you agree with us already).

If you're new here, you can do quite well if you meet the right folks and play nice. However if you're from here and you'd like to see some change, I'm just not sure there is any recourse. I wasted a lot of volunteer hours on the MAPS 3 campaign, and aside from the streetcar I'm not sure I don't feel at least somewhat burned by what has transpired. I, like the rest of this board, see a park turned into a corporate plaza and once-hopeful Walker Ave turned into a garage canyon, and just shake my head because that's all I can do. Even though I could tell you the precise policy fixes that would help us.

Spartan, come back and run for council. You don't need to be in the oil business or one of the "elite". You need to organize and run. Then, work from the inside to affect change. But not like Mr. Shadid. You are a smart guy who seems to be gaining a pragmatic and less confrontational style which can still be quite effective.

Sometimes progressives think they have to be so over the top dogmatic to affect change they don't understand and acknowledge the practical concerns that exist and work to effect change within that context. We need more people like Sid, and now you I think. People who work WITH others who don't necessarily start out understanding or agreeing, but who CAN change. Affecting change is hard, but possible. And it isn't done by beating people up or trying to make them feel stupid.

Oh yea, I would work to support you.

Another thing is I am most disturbed by the insider reports we are getting that there will be no changes or real design review process because that has already transpired behind closed doors. I don't doubt that, and I appreciate Pete first digging around and then sharing what he can, so while not shooting the messenger I am very disappointed in this on many levels.

Not to beat a dead horse, I'll just suggest that a community could be better-poised for success by subjecting this kind of deal (how many years was this in the works? We had code violations and deferred maintenance for years and now they need a demo permit tomorrow so they can stay on schedule, just saying) to a holistic community process. The project would be improved, new perspectives would benefit the decisions made, and Devon and BOK would gain un-mitigated adoration for their community-building.

They will still get all the credit and positive joo-joo once this is done, but it won't be the most successful opportunity and this way won't be without plenty of ruffled feathers. I just don't get why it has to be this way. Why is design review such a nasty thing? Is it a respect issue, or an ego thing, or is there legitimate concern that design review will hurt timelines and budgets? If so then let's talk about that. Furthermore, what damage does saving a functional Art Deco garage really do? They need parking, right?

I'm just so dizzy from trying to connect the dots while simultaneously watching downtown get even more fragmented. I'm just afraid that we are furthering the desired outcome for the applicant (Hines, Preftakes, Devon, whomever) by propagating this story insisting there will be no changes. We are precluding the long shot possibility that planning can still succeed.

The real problem here is that we know the planning process and that it will go forward by statute, but we have ALL but discounted any legitimacy with that process. That just makes me really sad for our community moving forward.

I really hate the negativity around here. We have 5 freaking towers going up, 2 of which are high-rise residential and the board spends it's time arguing about how it doesn't fit their particular definition of urban-ism. It's like liberals in a contest to see who can be more tolerant, or the tea party to see who can be the purest conservative.

Get a grip people. You are starting to sound like this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phxRZXd6r9E

A company should be able to design it the way they want.

What? How does this even become an issue?


Forcing a company to design an HQ to where there employees have no choice but the leave if they want something to eat is not right.

First off, it's impossible to do that. Secondly, no one is talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Where do you even get that?

And lastly, it is their choice to design a self contained environment for their employees. Yes, they can still leave, but it does greatly reduce the increase in street activity and economic impact to the surrounding district and its businesses relative to a development that is more integrated and interactive with its surroundings. Just because it's a choice does not change the effect.

None of this is absolute either. Will these developments bring more people to the area? Yes, but the degree to which people interact with the surroundings can, in fact, be influenced by the design. It's not whether they will or won't, it's how much will they.

I really hate the negativity around here. We have 5 freaking towers going up, 2 of which are high-rise residential and the board spends it's time arguing about how it doesn't fit their particular definition of urban-ism. It's like liberals in a contest to see who can be more tolerant, or the tea party to see who can be the purest conservative.

Get a grip people. You are starting to sound like this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phxRZXd6r9E

This type of thinking is what limits true progress. Let's not forget we are tearing down pieces of OKC history as a result.

None of this is absolute either. Will these developments bring more people to the area? Yes, but the degree to which people interact with the surroundings can, in fact, be influenced by the design. It's not whether they will or won't, it's how much will they.

Right on.

I really hate the negativity around here. We have 5 freaking towers going up, 2 of which are high-rise residential and the board spends it's time arguing about how it doesn't fit their particular definition of urban-ism. It's like liberals in a contest to see who can be more tolerant, or the tea party to see who can be the purest conservative.

Get a grip people. You are starting to sound like this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phxRZXd6r9EI don't think it's bad to want better.

You're making my point for me. For the few events they do have after dark (the majority of which are private), all activity is drawn in away from the street. There is a reason the winter shoppes were not open after the Thunder 6pm game Sunday night.

Yeah, because everything, everywhere closes early on Sunday. Also, a massive thunder storm came through right before the game and they shut down early and didn't reopen.

What? How does this even become an issue?



First off, it's impossible to do that. Secondly, no one is talking about forcing anyone to do anything. Where do you even get that?

And lastly, it is their choice to design a self contained environment for their employees. Yes, they can still leave, but it does greatly reduce the increase in street activity and economic impact to the surrounding district and its businesses relative to a development that is more integrated and interactive with its surroundings. Just because it's a choice does not change the effect.

None of this is absolute either. Will these developments bring more people to the area? Yes, but the degree to which people interact with the surroundings can, in fact, be influenced by the design. It's not whether they will or won't, it's how much will they.I'm not even sure what we're really discussing here, so let me state what I think about this development.

It's nice and I'm glad things like this in the general sense(27 story skyscraper planned for OKC) are happening. I think this can be better. Much better. I think it could be laid out better. I think most, if not all, of the buildings could be saved if they really wanted to. I am not sure if this is possible or if there is something preventing it like groundwater, but I think the parking should be underground. Now I know this might be antagonizing, but I would also like to see height added, although that is the least important part of all of this and I'd be happy with everything else changed for the better as opposed to higher. I still want to see higher buildings in the future, however.

I think they are doing the bare minimum here. The easiest, cheapest thing that can be done. Tear down everything, build a tower in whatever layout, and add parking garages. There is a difference between being fiscally responsible and just being cheap.

This type of thinking is what limits true progress. Let's not forget we are tearing down pieces of OKC history as a result.+1

Yeah, because everything, everywhere closes early on Sunday. Also, a massive thunder storm came through right before the game and they shut down early and didn't reopen.

If the MBG were truly a location drawing pedestrian traffic, then there would be no issue for these shops, which are open for a limited amount of time during the holiday season, to be open after a Thunder game when thousands of people will be exiting an arena right next door. MBG was a ghost town after the game which is why they were already scheduled to close down at 6pm Sunday regardless of storm or no storm. That's the indicator.

What local shops are even open on Sundays much less after 6?

I don't think it's bad to want better.

Exactly. These are all relative arguments. Some people seem to have lost sight of that.

What's happening really, is that I think we all agree that the skyline will look better, or at least broader, when these buildings are done. What we're going to get a ground level is a much bigger unknown and may be the most important part of the projects in terms of what this district is like in 15 years.

From the looks of it the street level will be dominated by the parking garages. Basically, 2 square blocks of parking garages and maybe some store front space. So, while it probably won't be as bad as Gaylord, it will be closer to that than it will be to Park Ave. Right now it seems like It will basically be copying the middle part of the east side of Hudson between Sheridan and Park and pasting it onto the West Side and extending it south.

Basically, more this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4683576,-97.5194811,3a,75y,157.73h,101.2t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1scqVb8fUUA161j-vEYo4P1Q!2e0

Than this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@35.4688082,-97.517523,3a,75y,87.02h,104.59t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sI9jZ9FZB5dQb5lmeR7kbpg!2e0

Is it not? I thought anything that wasn't a tall building outside of OKC was considered a mid-rise.

Ok, I never said Devon was a mid rise. Actually quite the opposite, it is a beautiful skyscraper. It is all these mid rises around it that really need to be taller to keep the Devon from sticking out like a lonely, awkward sore thumb. It is a beautiful but looks so out of place and really needs more towers that are at least 2/3 or 3/4 of the size of it. Also, whoever said "newsflash" OKC is a mid size city, I disagree. OKC is considered a large city. It doesn't fit in the very large cities, but definitely not a mid size city. Also, I did not mean 27 foot building, that was a typo. I meant to say 27 story building.

I just can't see them destroying 3 buildings with over 50 stories for this mediocre project. This blocks almost commands something better if they plan to level it. If you disagree that is your right but to me it is just wrong. I have nothing against a 27 story building by the way, but a bunch of 20 story high rises that we are getting still makes the skyline (Devon) just look awkward. Be honest, how many times have you had someone ask you why OKC only has one real skycaper? How many of you don't look at the Devon and just wish it had something to compliment it to make it not look so odd? It's beautiful but almost just weird having nothing even remotely tall enough to contrast it.

Is there any chance this person is some sort of bot? Most one-dimensional poster in the history of Internet forums.

If the MBG were truly a location drawing pedestrian traffic, then there would be no issue for these shops, which are open for a limited amount of time during the holiday season, to be open after a Thunder game when thousands of people will be exiting an arena right next door. MBG was a ghost town after the game which is why they were already scheduled to close down at 6pm Sunday regardless of storm or no storm. That's the indicator.

Most retail in OKC closes at 6 on Sundays, even the malls. Regardless the point will be moot in a few years when Clayco's residential towers are full. Even without fronting the gardens, the foot traffic will greatly increase. Few people live near the gardens now.

Ok, I never said Devon was a mid rise. Actually quite the opposite, it is a beautiful skyscraper. It is all these mid rises around it that really need to be taller to keep the Devon from sticking out like a lonely, awkward sore thumb. It is a beautiful but looks so out of place and really needs more towers that are at least 2/3 or 3/4 of the size of it. Also, whoever said "newsflash" OKC is a mid size city, I disagree. OKC is considered a large city. It doesn't fit in the very large cities, but definitely not a mid size city. Also, I did not mean 27 foot building, that was a typo. I meant to say 27 story building.

I just can't see them destroying 3 buildings with over 50 stories for this mediocre project. This blocks almost commands something better if they plan to level it. If you disagree that is your right but to me it is just wrong. I have nothing against a 27 story building by the way, but a bunch of 20 story high rises that we are getting still makes the skyline (Devon) just look awkward. Be honest, how many times have you had someone ask you why OKC only has one real skycaper? How many of you don't look at the Devon and just wish it had something to compliment it to make it not look so odd? It's beautiful but almost just weird having nothing even remotely tall enough to contrast it.

I still don't quite understand your point. What is your problem with these projects?

We are getting what, 800-1000 new people on this block? You're going to tell me they won't add anything to the street life????

They are being relocated for just 4 blocks away. How much street-life are these people currently generating at the corner of Robinson and Kerr? Answer - none, despite the lovely corporate plaza across the street.

They are being relocated for just 4 blocks away. How much street-life are these people currently generating at the corner of Robinson and Kerr? Answer - none, despite the lovely corporate plaza across the street.That's true, however I do believe they will add some street life. It might not be much, but it will be something. I just wish there was more public input, as Will stated.

I really hate the negativity around here. We have 5 freaking towers going up, 2 of which are high-rise residential and the board spends it's time arguing about how it doesn't fit their particular definition of urban-ism. It's like liberals in a contest to see who can be more tolerant, or the tea party to see who can be the purest conservative.

Get a grip people. You are starting to sound like this guy.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=phxRZXd6r9E

You're counting some un-hatched chickens and glossing over all the details. You know, there are also articles accompanying those pretty renderings ;P

10,000 people work in OUHSC, yet it is nearly devoid of street life.

10,000 people work in OUHSC, yet it is nearly devoid of street life.

Attached parking garages and skywalks.

The 'impact' of the height of the Devon Tower makes the other towers look insignificant. So, that's the major reason you have some posters who have height concerns about the emergence of the new proposed developments.

We'll have to let this play out. Just get the feeling that you will see some new developments around 2020 explode onto the skyline scene. Don't worry, it's coming...