Those numbers are incorrect. The floor total is in tomorrow's Oklahoman (early edition out today).

...

And???

It's 27 floors

I saw the early edition of tomorrow's Oklahoman at Wal-Mart. I looked very briefly at the front page article by Steve. It is a rectangular glass building. From my brief look at the paper, the building looks similar in design to the building that Clayco placed on this property in their proposal. I have no information on building height.

Yup, this is OKC Talk. Everyone is criticizing a project before we even know for sure what it's going to be. LOL

What exactly does that mean? Do you A, doubt Pete's journalism; or B, not feel that he has provided enough info about what is going on right now?

Nobody is criticizing too much glass, not enough, entrance locations, etc etc. The height complaints are a little weird, but aside from that, the criticisms so far speak entirely to what we do know right now which is large-scale historic demolition primarily for parking structures.

Do you feel that OKC needs to lose more historic structures for parking structures? Even if there is a perfectly suitable historic parking structure on-site already?

I am curious what exactly you are arguing against

I can confirm the building will be 27 floors and be on the corner of Hudson & Sheridan.

More details to follow.

I can confirm the building will be 27 floors and be on the corner of Hudson & Sheridan.

More details to follow.

Pete, are you hearing the parking will be below the tower or seperate. A 5-10 story parking structure could add a lot of height to the tower unless it is seperate.

There you guys go. Keep the historic buildings and have a taller skyscraper. Not a good sign for this project if Preftakes, Devon, or BOK are too cheap to do it the right way by incorporating parking below the tower.

http://cdn2.newsok.biz/cache/r620-0c9d9ff3fb79b6cb8abbcb41c5c93564.jpg
Why does this have to be torn down?

I'll have more details soon. Just trying to confirm a few things.

...and be on the corner of Hudson & Sheridan.

More details to follow.

Ugh.

I can confirm the building will be 27 floors and be on the corner of Hudson & Sheridan.

More details to follow.

Good news, the OKCTalk (Development & Buildings) forum should rock Monday morning.

Fantastic

I can confirm the building will be 27 floors and be on the corner of Hudson & Sheridan.

More details to follow.

Niiiiiccceeeee!

All of the details and detailed renderings are in the early edition Sunday newspaper, which is already in the news stand. Worth picking up.

Can anyone snap a pic?

please do not post copyrighted material

All of the details and detailed renderings are in the early edition Sunday newspaper, which is already in the news stand. Worth picking up.

What's a news stand?

please do not post copyrighted material

Is Hines now a subsidiary of OPUBCO?

The plans are very similar to what we have been discussing for the last few weeks: Office tower on the corner of Main & Hudson, a large parking garage to the west extending all the way to Walker and another smaller garage to the north on the site of Carpenter Square and the three other buildings.

The office building will be squarish but a parallelogram with a sky bridge to the Devon complex.

Bank of Oklahoma will take the top floors and will probably have their name on the building and Devon will take a good chunk as well.

As I said, all very similar to what we've been discussing.

It's 27 floors

I saw the early edition of tomorrow's Oklahoman at Wal-Mart. I looked very briefly at the front page article by Steve. It is a rectangular glass building. From my brief look at the paper, the building looks similar in design to the building that Clayco placed on this property in their proposal. I have no information on building height.

If it's anything like the Devon Tower, those floors could run 15-18 feet; at 27 stories, it would run in the range of 425-450 ft., height which is similar to the Oklahoma Tower (434 feet).

http://www.okctalk.com/images/wikiphotos/oklahomatower1.jpg

Oklahoma Tower

BTW, they want all this to happen very quickly.

They want to push through the demolition approvals and start construction ASAP.

This project is likely to start before Clayco (if approved, and we all know it will be).

I am a bit disappointed about the height. A taller tower would make losing One North Hudson and Motor Hotel much easier to swallow. I am going to wait though until I see a rendering before passing final judgment on this project.

I think most people are going to be disappointed in the building design.

Just a glass square box.

I think most people are going to be disappointed in the building design.

Just a glass square box.

I wouldn't say that is a bad thing. Looking at the skyline, OKC has a huge architectural gap between the eras of the Chase tower and the Devon tower. Something like a parallelogram glass box will look nice in the skyline. A lot of those kind of buildings were going up in other cities in the '90s and '00s. However, considering what is being lost I am not sure its worth it. There are numerous other sites such a building could be built on with demolishing even more history. I would be all for it if it was 40+ stories but demolishing that much history, in my opinion, should warrant something that would have a bigger impact either on the skyline or in terms of architectural style.

^ Pretty much what I thought of it. The design of Devon Energy Center really spoiled us rotten.

We could all protest and lay in front of the destruction equipment!

This project is sad. I like the Motor Hotel and Union Bus Station.

What a pisser! As my dad would say.

Will be interesting to see if they are requesting any TIF money.

Unless they are asking to a ton, doesn't that pretty much blow holes in the Clayco argument that new office space can't be building downtown without substantial public assistance?

Pete, will the announcement on Thursday offer more details, such as space for shopping etc.? Any chance there are more features to the project that could excite besides a box building and big garages?

We could all protest and lay in front of the destruction equipment!

This project is sad. I like the Motor Hotel and Union Bus Station.

What a pisser! As my dad would say.

Union Bus Station would be perfect as a 24-hour diner or some kind of unique restaurant concept. I will admit though, I am not as sad about its loss as I am about Motor Hotel.

In terms of TIF money this is apples and oranges is it not? First the Preftakes development has no proposed residential. The Clayco development does. In addition, the Clayco office towers are really spec towers (OG&E is committed but nobody else) while the Preftakes tower already has committed tenants. In terms of overall scale and risk, its much higher for the Clayco development than the Preftakes development.

Clayco is asking for TIF dollars for both their office towers, including the one where OG&E will be taking a higher percentage of the building than Devon would be in this development.

It's very much apples to apples.

We could all protest and lay in front of the destruction equipment!

This project is sad. I like the Motor Hotel and Union Bus Station.

What a pisser! As my dad would say.

I got an ex-girlfriend we could chain to the building. She's pretty big.

You won't have to read about Urban Renewal and look at photos from the 60s-70s, you'll be able to go there and see it for yourself. Then decades later, if anyone still cares, can ask you why nobody cared or did anything about it. It should all makes sense to everyone now in the current situation with this block.

There is nothing magical about 30 40 or 50 year old buildings

There is nothing magical about 30 40 or 50 year old buildings

How do building get to become 100 years old?

The building Jeepnokc built will never become a 100 year old building if someone 5 years from now says there's nothjng special about a 5 year old building. And 40 years from now, if someone says it is not old enough to be special because it is only 40 years old.

Something will never get old if you don't give it a chance.

I picked up a copy of the Oklahoman today,it's a nice building but I want to see more details before I make a final judgment.

If this is as plain-Jane as Pete is indicating, maybe the TIF funding for Clayco is what it takes to do a first-class project. If this is only a simple box tower with two huge garages, I would rather see TIF funds go to make something special. Wasn't that what happened with the Criterion? It was a box and they received money to improve the design.

I don't know what level of TIF funding makes sense, but the retail, the integrated design, the great looking architecture, the residential will be far more valuable to downtown then another uninspired building.

Let me say that losing the very good urban fabric that is already on-site (and paid for) being lost for a parking garage taking up the whole block and a skywalk makes me wonder if I need to stop giving a **** about OKC.

^^^

(finally get to do that)

You won't have to read about Urban Renewal and look at photos from the 60s-70s, you'll be able to go there and see it for yourself. Then decades later, if anyone still cares, can ask you why nobody cared or did anything about it. It should all makes sense to everyone now in the current situation with this block.

You are right. There is a prevailing attitude in this town that no history is worth preserving.

Oklahomans wonder why the nation has this perception of OKC as being devoid of all uniqueness and character. The blatant disregard for and lack of appreciation of history and everything that made OKC unique is the answer. I am also not saying that only old buildings have character. Just because it's old doesn't mean it's worth preserving. However, OKC seems all to eager to tear down the buildings with the most history and most architectural significance for bland structures no different from stuff in any other city. Think the Baum Building making way for the Century Center. Many of the new developments coming to OKC such as LIFT and the Metropolitan are amazing and I am very excited about them, but they aren't unique. The unique things are what gives a place character. You would think the city would have learned from urban renewal in the Pei era but it doesn't seem like it has.

Let me add that by no means should history be preserved at all costs. There is a time to demolish historic structures for better and higher use. Demolishing this block though for a bland rectangular office tower that would fit just as well on NW Expressway as downtown is a travesty.

27 Stories. Well that sucks. Tearing down a bunch of beautiful old buildings for a measly 27 story building. I wouldn't justify it unless it were over 35 stories personally, but perhaps I just had my expectations too high.

Let me say that losing the very good urban fabric that is already on-site (and paid for) being lost for a parking garage taking up the whole block and a skywalk makes me wonder if I need to stop giving a **** about OKC.

Empty unused building do not = urban fabric

And by all means stop caring

Each and every city tears down old buildings for new construction. It is called progress

For those of you that feel strongly about the demolitions, there are a couple of things you can do:

1. Contact your City Councilperson
2. Plan to attend the Downtown Design Review Committee meeting on Dec. 18th at 9:30AM in the council chambers at City Hall.

The presentation of this project at that meeting will be for information purposes only and I'm pretty sure it will go to vote the very next meeting in January.

So, you don't have much time to express your concern.

Sick to my stomach that we'd be losing the motor hotel and hotel black for what you describe. There is barely anything left of this town as it is.

Some stewards, these guys.

Share any of these you feel like posting on here:

Block West of Devon Tower (my Flickr)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/williamhider/sets/72157649329368539/

Block West of Devon Tower (OKCTalk)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/okctalk/sets/72157647414135804/


http://vimeo.com/20668298
Block West of Devon Tower (March 3 2011) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/20668298)

http://vimeo.com/21709513
Block West of Devon Tower (March 16 2011) on Vimeo (http://vimeo.com/21709513)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awpwWktVd0
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_awpwWktVd0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR975R2ZJ50
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RR975R2ZJ50

Here is the general site plan. I've been told there will also be a skybridge across Hudson connecting the tower to the Devon complex.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinessite1.jpg

Really wish they could build a little taller and make it the 2nd tallest in the city. That would generate more excitement and make more of an impact on the skyline. At 27 stories this will be shorter than the Cotter tower. Still should make an impact but taller would be better.

This is lame. There's no reason to tear down those buildings for this.

The Old Black Hotel seems like it would be worth saving for sure but then there could be no sky bridge to Devon. Seems a shame to knock down a perfectly good building when there are other sites they could build on. But,then again,they couldn't have their wonderful sky bridge. At least they should build taller,no excuse for not building taller if they are gonna tear the Black Hotel down to build their wonderful sky bridge. The Auto Hotel I can see bulldozing if they want to build a better garage. Fine do that but build your building at least 35-40 stories if you have to destroy the Black Hotel to build your sky bridge.

Just two years ago:


Union Bus Station in Oklahoma City has its first new owner since opening in 1940, and the buyer, Nicholas Preftakes, pledged Tuesday he will not raze the Art Deco structure as he seeks to redevelop the block.

Union Bus Station in Oklahoma City sells for $2 million | News OK (http://newsok.com/union-bus-station-in-oklahoma-city-sells-for-2-million/article/3671568)

I don't understand why they can't save Hotel Black and build the tower on the site of the old Carpenter Square theater. I realize that modernization removed some architectural elements from Hotel Black, but it's still very useable space....would've made a nice conversion back into a boutique hotel. Not sure why they couldn't save Hotel Black like they did with the Colcord. I guess there's money in parking structures. Still, I don't like a large parking garage fronting Main Street. Ridiculous.

Any or all of the buildings could be saved. One North Hudson / Hotel Black was occupied until they chased off the last tenants just months ago. The Auto Hotel is currently being used. All the others have been occupied in the recent past.

They just choose not to redevelop them.

The handwriting was on the wall years ago when 1) millions were invested in small, one or two story buildings; 2) absolutely zero money was put into them after purchase; and 3) they ran off tenants with no real attempt to replace them.

Preftakes is clearly in this for the money and could give a rip less about preservation. Glad he never bought the Skirvin!

Preftakes has paid $16 million for 2.57 acres; that's $6.22 million per acre and most of that was bought 6 or 7 years ago.

Stage Center right across the street just sold for $1.35 million per acre.

He would have to sell for over $8 million an acre just to break even.


Obviously, there are other forces at work here and there always has been. How do you think he paid all this money then sat on all those properties without any real income while incurring a million a year in property taxes?

Isn't Preftakes going to own the new parking garages and tower? Or is he selling the property to developers?

We'll never know the true nature of the Preftakes/Devon/Hines ownership interest just like we'll never know the true nature of the Rainey Williams/OG&E/Clacyo deal.

This is lame. There's no reason to tear down those buildings for this.

I'm not intending this to come off blunt and insensitive but the "good" reason is that someone owns the property and they intend get a return on their investment and ownership. Owning and leasing 2 and 3 story buildings as well as old higher rises wasnt going to provide the rate of return for its highest and best use. Very few private individuals would sit on and maintain old buildings when builing a modern and much larger structure will result in far larger returns. That would have to be done by an histric preservation entity of some sort

Here is the general site plan. I've been told there will also be a skybridge across Hudson connecting the tower to the Devon complex.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/hinessite1.jpg

Why can't the tower be built on top of either garage? How frustrating, my enthusiasm for this project has sunk immensely.

Empty unused building do not = urban fabric

And by all means stop caring

They are empty because the tenants were forced out....

Preftakes, just like Williams, is just a face and a scapegoat used to tear down buildings to not ruin reputations by major companies. They get paid under the table so they can be the bad guys who tore down our history. Money will make people do almost anything. Sad OKC has to take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward. Tearing down perfectly good buildings so people can make a quick buck on garages. We are going to be known as the city with a thousand parking garages in 50 years.