The potential skyscraper that we thought was planned for this location must didn't come to fruition or it moved to different location, so now Preftakes is leasing the spaces.

This is the first thing that came to my mind too. Sometimes you win and sometimes you lose in real estate, much like the stock market.

I do wonder what type of space is below the skylights? Every time I'm down there, I'm intrigued by the contrast.

If I remember correctly it's a law office.

I'm really not sure how much this means. These buildings are going to require some kind of repairs in order to be safe bets to be profitable. I think it's safe to say none of us saw this coming, so a very interesting move nonetheless.

Nm

May mean that the project just moved across the street to the Stage Center Site. Less opposition and the sites in question will just become more valuable.....in an odd way, making them even more economically difficult to re-use.

If you wanted to go conspiracy theorist you could just say this is a half hearted attempt to lease them so in 6 months he can say he tried to rent them but no one was interested.

Maybe we were wrong all along, what if there never was a tower planned for that location? Maybe most people, including me automatically assumed this would be great location for a new tower, and speculated it into a plausible possibility. Maybe there is really only one tower planned and not two, with it being located at the EK Gaylord triangle.

I'm not sure that them listing these properties for lease is in fact new news.

I know they've had 416 w. Main up for rent since 2008 and they haven't leased it yet. Is adding the three properties to the east of this such a big shift?

Also, how committed are they to leasing any of this space since 416 is in the best condition by far and nothing has happened there in four years?

http://www.precorruffin.com/416_W_Main_AVAILABLE.pdf

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/6/A/2/6A279ACF-EF9D-4657-9AB8-205E4026A5D9.pdf

I wonder if the Stage Center site is now the front runner for the location of a potential new skyscraper. So I guess the question now is do we save the Stage Center or Preftakes block?

I wonder if the Stage Center site is now the front runner for the location of a potential new skyscraper. So I guess the question now is do we save the Stage Center or Preftakes block?

i was defiantly more upset about losing the preftakes block... there are some building here that with a little TLC can be absolutely beautiful and help downtown keep some of it's older culture and feel. I would choose to lose the stage center 999 times out of 1000 when choosing between these two blocks

Just for calrrification, the taller buildings on the Preftakes block were never in-line for destruction. The AutoHotel, Black Building, the City Office Building, Coney Island, and Union Bus Station are not going anywhere - even if a new tower was built.

I wouldn't say that about the bus station.

Even the present owner (not Pretakes) said he would consider demolition.

Maybe we were wrong all along, what if there never was a tower planned for that location? Maybe most people, including me automatically assumed this would be great location for a new tower, and speculated it into a plausible possibility. Maybe there is really only one tower planned and not two, with it being located at the EK Gaylord triangle.

No, while I wouldn't undercut our ability to speculate things into possibility (we do that all the time, basketball court for example), I will on this. There was a tower planned here, no doubt about it. Nicholas Preftakes was hanging on a thread handling the press on this the best he could: a self-imposed gag order. It was more of a question of not if the tower would be announced, but how much longer Preftakes was capable of playing charades.

I think this site may still be in play, but I think the spotlight has shifted from this site to the Stage Center site. I think momentum just crested for demolishing the Stage Center.

And I think if this scenario comes true, most of us who wanted to save both Stage Center and Main Street blocks will regard this as a small win, all things considered. It will be a huge shame to see such an architectural treasure go, but it could be balanced by knowing having our last remnant of a grandiose Main Street preserved.

Keep in mind he paid a ton of money for those Main Street properties and would have to put a ton more in them to much them leasable.

I still don't see them being viable in the longer term, as there is not enough space in current form to generate revenue that would justify the investment.

Don't tell that to Steve Mason, who has never renovated a building as large as anything on the Main Street block.

No, while I wouldn't undercut our ability to speculate things into possibility (we do that all the time, basketball court for example), I will on this. There was a tower planned here, no doubt about it. Nicholas Preftakes was hanging on a thread handling the press on this the best he could: a self-imposed gag order. It was more of a question of not if the tower would be announced, but how much longer Preftakes was capable of playing charades.

I think this site may still be in play, but I think the spotlight has shifted from this site to the Stage Center site. I think momentum just crested for demolishing the Stage Center.

And I think if this scenario comes true, most of us who wanted to save both Stage Center and Main Street blocks will regard this as a small win, all things considered. It will be a huge shame to see such an architectural treasure go, but it could be balanced by knowing having our last remnant of a grandiose Main Street preserved.

So they are looking at demolishing Stage Center and building the tower there instead of building it on Main Street? Or am I jumping the gun?

Don't tell that to Steve Mason, who has never renovated a building as large as anything on the Main Street block.

he never paid the prices the preftakes did either

If you wanted to go conspiracy theorist you could just say this is a half hearted attempt to lease them so in 6 months he can say he tried to rent them but no one was interested.

Or no buyers and no renters are lining up. As property values and rents increase downtown it makes marginal businesses more scarce.

Getting closer to wrapping up the street project on Main Street...

The series of building fronts really is interesting but apart from the City-owned building, they are all in horrible shape. I'll believe Preftakes is serious about renting them when he actually does some renovation work.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7197/6821019456_d74c0623a0_b.jpg

he never paid the prices the preftakes did either

Well that's Preftakes' problem. Even if that means somebody needs more revenue streams to break even, that's one of the biggest deal breakers downtown, and ordinances or design review should not bend over backwards to accommodate that problem. Look at the disaster at the First National Center, largely caused by Yashouafar spending too much on property acquisition.

I just can't believe he has deep enough pockets to spend $13+ million five years ago and then generate very little income all this time.

I still think someone else is behind this and he's serving as a middle-man.

I don't know, he's proposed large-scale developments before, but never executed (Legacy site, for example). He's also completed a number of small-scale developments, like the Garage Lofts...

I just can't believe he has deep enough pockets to spend $13+ million five years ago and then generate very little income all this time.

I still think someone else is behind this and he's serving as a middle-man.

here is a thought pete ... if Devon is going to fill up most of their building (they are) ... and they are still growing (they are) .. how long will it be before they need more space?? ..

and if they do ... then 2 things

1. they have plenty of money to do it (4.7 B profit last Q) and 2 why not build across the street??

makes sense...

I believe Pete said that Devon's plan included the Oklahoma Tower being their overflow space?

I believe Pete said that Devon's plan included the Oklahoma Tower being their overflow space?

in the short term that makes sense ........ but what about the long term when they have say 500 employees that don't fit their current building??

Yes, I had heard Devon had a handshake agreement with Beffort over Oklahoma Tower but 1) that building is presently for sale and 2) it's pretty full.

But remember that building will soon be directly connected to the Devon complex with an enclosed 3rd-level walkway through the City Center East garage.

I'd be curious to know what percentage of the space will be occupied when Devon is fully moved in this July. They spent a lot of time and effort calculating their future needs before they ever started on their tower.

in the short term that makes sense ........ but what about the long term when they have say 500 employees that don't fit their current building??

I agree. Was just pointing that out. I'm sure their long term plan probably has a Devon II included somewhere. Even if that long term plan for Devon II is still on a napkin and not on the official drawing board. Someday it will probably be necessary.

Yes, I had heard Devon had a handshake agreement with Beffort over Oklahoma Tower but 1) that building is presently for sale and 2) it's pretty full.

But remember that building will soon be directly connected to the Devon complex with an enclosed 3rd-level walkway through the City Center East garage.

I'd be curious to know what percentage of the space will be occupied when Devon is fully moved in this July. They spent a lot of time and effort calculating their future needs before they ever started on their tower.

It seems like someone had to have misquoted someone, but it was said here that they would immediately fill only 1/3 of the building. I don't know how that could be, but if it's true, then there is a huge growth potential in the building.

They may be leaving as much as 1/3rd of it empty.

It seems like someone had to have misquoted someone, but it was said here that they would immediately fill only 1/3 of the building. I don't know how that could be, but if it's true, then there is a huge growth potential in the building.

The capacity of the Tower and Garden Wing is about 2,800. I would estimate there will be somewhere around 1900-2000employees in the building by the fall.

May mean that the project just moved across the street to the Stage Center Site. Less opposition...

Really?? I doubt that. There's a huge "save the Stage Center" push going on.

Really?? I doubt that. There's a huge "save the Stage Center" push going on.

That push died last week when both proposal for redevelopment lacked funding and the owners of Stage Center announced they were getting the property appraised for a potential sale (which I think everyone saw coming anyhow).

I wouldn't say it died, just hit a bump in the road. Those same people are still going to be mobilized to save the building. No such organized effort to save the Preftakes block exists.

Most of the public is indifferent or worse on the Stage Center and would see the sale as a way to get out of paying ongoing support. They don't have a dog in the fight with Preftakes (financial that is) and look at those buildings in a way more sympathetic way. Ask 100 OKCitians which would be considered "historic" and I bet 97% say the ones on Prefakes' block. Not saying it is right, but just saying. Of course, this is like asking a parent to decide whether to disown their daughter or son...which one.

I think the average person on the street doesn't care about historic buildings at all. I would guess that if you went to an average person on the street and mentioned Preftakes, you would likely get a deer in the headlights look and not even know which building you are talking about. I have lived here 36 years and I am very proud of our city but if you were to ask me about historic buildings, I would have to go look them up myself. I never heard of the Braniff building until I read about it on this site. I do remember Braniff airlines when I was a kid. I am not trying to belittle anyone's point of view but just trying to point out that most people are not that engaged to even care one way or the other.

If I were the type to even care about historic buildings, I would likely go with the one that I am familiar with, sort of like most people do with political candidates. With that logic, I am pretty sure more people have seen or remember the stage center more than they would any building on Preftakes' block. Not that it has any more value but rather just that people remember it. Of course I am referring to average people on the street and not activists who are actively engaged. Those people will probably be educated and know the story.

Rover- I would say that's a great analogy, especially for people who are prepared to mobilize for both. Also, for those of us who have lost most of these battles and grown cynical, it's hard not to look at a potential 50% success rate and say "I'll take it!" with a smile, even if it means the Stage Center is gone.

Jbrown is right about the Stage Center movement, but let's also keep in mind that these players behind the scenes are acting in a way to prevent people from mobilizing early enough to head them off. I remember going to speak at the Downtown Design Review Commission a week before SR was on the agenda, and they told me to come back next week and that I was too early (well I was going to be back in Canada, so they dodged a bullet there I guess). I wanted to head off the issue and proactively take it on, which is what these people fear the most. So instead, the opposition to SR didn't form until the BOA stage, and then SR claimed "well where was this opposition earlier?" Give me a break.

We're doing the same thing here. Now that the Stage Center activists have gotten a chance to organize and get together, they will be a force. They may be able to take this fight to the city council when Larry Nichols needs to get a demo permit for the Stage Center, we'll see. But also don't forget that not long ago people on here, in fact I think Rover was one of them if memory serves me right, were telling us that there was no other opposition, there won't be a movement to save the Stage Center like there was a movement against SR. This is a strategy that people use way too often, by trying to isolate the few people who do care enough to mobilize, dazing and confusing them into thinking that there's nobody else they could work with, and should just give up. This is also an argument that is always best to ignore, because it's almost always wrong. Was wrong about SR, was wrong about Stage Center, and will also be wrong if anyone tries to say there won't be a movement to save Main Street. There will be, if there needs to be one.

I can tell you that a lot of preservationists, not naming any names or organizations however, have begun listening very carefully to what happens with the Main Street block. I believe that my argument of "Main Street's last remnants" is gaining traction, and I've begun to see it repeated by a few others lately, including in the Oklahoman. I wouldn't be surprised if Preftakes thinks Main Street is a tougher proposition than Stage Center at this point, because even though the preservationists haven't officially gotten together yet just because Preftakes hasn't officially announced anything yet, he knows they will. And they will get organized at a much earlier stage than they did with SR, and if people tell us to wait this time or give us false assurances that DDRC will do its job, that won't be given any credence this time either.

I would bet a Coke that both the Stage Center and the Main Street structures east of the city building will be gone within five years.

I don't think this is an either/or proposition, just a matter of which goes first.

Pete's probably right, but the point is that we need to try and prevent this. Some change may be inevitable, but is the inevitable change always good? And is it the best change?

We need strategically targeted change. Not any change. You can't just take a sledgehammer of change through a delicate urban environment that has a lot of existing pockets of potential that NEED to be incorporated into the change.

These bigwigs are trying to develop downtown IN SPITE of the existing pockets of potential, and I think that's wrong, because while they might see their power and wealth having no end, I assure you that the deep pocketed Chamber junta is nowhere near enough to build a great city if the only change we get will be wiping out the existing pockets of potential.

And that's all that I see on the table here. I might be wrong, but that would require some proposals finally coming out that are radically different than what we're all anticipating.

I have to admit, when you talk about the Main Street buildings I am unsure of which ones you are talking about. I am looking at Google Maps and Devon Tower is right on main. The only thing to the east of it are more skyscrapers, a parking garage, and then Bricktown. To the west of Devon are several multi-story buildings that look like office space and that contain some restaurants on the first floors. Are those the buildings you guys are talking about? Further west are a couple of two story buildings and surface parking lots.

Buildings 5-8 here:

http://mysite.verizon.net/res17zef/precor3.jpg

Does Preftakes own 11-13?

I know he does not own the bus station yet, but I think he does own the Lunch Box.

I have to admit, when you talk about the Main Street buildings I am unsure of which ones you are talking about. I am looking at Google Maps and Devon Tower is right on main. The only thing to the east of it are more skyscrapers, a parking garage, and then Bricktown. To the west of Devon are several multi-story buildings that look like office space and that contain some restaurants on the first floors. Are those the buildings you guys are talking about? Further west are a couple of two story buildings and surface parking lots.

The remnants of OKC's original Main Street row would be starting at Hudson, going west. In fact, if you follow Main Street all the way from Hudson to Penn, you've got a pretty decent stretch of road. It's amazing we don't talk more about it, or put any emphasis. I even think that the idea of a "Main Street" reminiscent of vintage Americana would sell with suburban voters who can only act on idyllic impulses when it comes to downtown issues.

There is also some original Main Street remaining east of the BNSF tracks in the northern part of Bricktown, but originally, this was industrial and never really considered an extension of OKC's Main Street row.

The Pretakes-owned properties are shown in color.

I guess I've honestly never noticed those buildings before. The next time I'm down there I will look them over. I may bring my camera if I remember to.

Pete, you have stated with conviction several times that building 4, the city offices, are not going anywhere. Have you ever considered that the City would sell that property if offered enough money to enable them to build a bigger and more energy efficient building in another location? The entity Preftakes is fronting for seems to have the money to pay the price if they want it bad enough.

Ate at the Lunch Box for perhaps the last time today. Sign on the door says they're open "at least until March 30". Staff said the lease is up then and they're looking for someplace to move, but haven't found a location downtown yet. Doesn't bode well for a long-standing downtown OKC institution.

Popsy, I think Pete might mean that in terms of a demolition proposition. Because the building belongs to the city and is currently in use by the city, that might have implications.

Ate at the Lunch Box for perhaps the last time today. Sign on the door says they're open "at least until March 30". Staff said the lease is up then and they're looking for someplace to move, but haven't found a location downtown yet. Doesn't bode well for a long-standing downtown OKC institution.

Wow, that's big news.

Can't imagine what may be planned for the Lunch Box space.

Well, I heard it's available for lease. I guess just not lease renewals. Hmmm...

Popsy, I think Pete might mean that in terms of a demolition proposition. Because the building belongs to the city and is currently in use by the city, that might have implications.

You might try re-reading my post as what you had to say made no sense.

Pete, you have stated with conviction several times that building 4, the city offices, are not going anywhere. Have you ever considered that the City would sell that property if offered enough money to enable them to build a bigger and more energy efficient building in another location? The entity Preftakes is fronting for seems to have the money to pay the price if they want it bad enough.

He already owns most that block and has plenty of room to build a tower, parking structure and more.

He would have to pay a ton of money for that building only to tear it down (if that was even allowed) to get a relatively small piece of land. And still, he doesn't own the two properties immediately west of that anyway.

Of course everything discussed here is pure conjecture but I don't think it would make business sense and I also don't think the city would ever sell that historical building for the purpose of demolition.

With the $2 million purchase of the bus station (thread here (http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=29741)) this is the updated ownership map for Preftakes & Company. The properties shaded in color and bolded are the ones he owns:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/precor5.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/precorstats.jpg

Here's a more current aerial (Pretakes properties shown in yellow):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/precor6.jpg

So, the Lunch Box is now shuttered and the word on the street is the Preftakes bought out the owners in order to shut it down.

And even though Precor/Ruffin list all the highlighted properties for lease, there has been absolutely no attempt to tidy them up and get them ready for the market. And certainly, no new leases have been signed in quite some time.

I suspect something big is getting ready to break here, as it seems they have acquired all the properties they can, the Lunch Box is gone and so soon will be the bus service.

And of course, a big new city-owned garage is going in just north of this property and the Stage Center to the south will certainly be redeveloped soon.

So, the Lunch Box is now shuttered and the word on the street is the Preftakes bought out the owners in order to shut it down.

And even though Precor/Ruffin list all the highlighted properties for lease, there has been absolutely no attempt to tidy them up and get them ready for the market. And certainly, no new leases have been signed in quite some time.

I suspect something big is getting ready to break here, as it seems they have acquired all the properties they can, the Lunch Box is gone and so soon will be the bus service.

And of course, a big new city-owned garage is going in just north of this property and the Stage Center to the south will certainly be redeveloped soon.

Maybe we'll just tear it all down and build a nice grassy meadow in the heart of downtown :). I vote for fescue!

Is Preftakes going to demolish this block?

There would be tremendous resistance to demolishing anything other than the old Lunch Box structures.

However, in order to justify has $15+ million investment, he can't merely just lease out the space that is there.

I would expect some sort of compromise, where he demolished some and integrated the rest into the development plans.

Is Preftakes going to demolish this block?

Whatever happens, it isn't likely to be the entire block. There are city offices, Coney Island and Pizza Town on the north side of that block and those are not part of what Preftakes has acquired over time.