Chicago doesn't have anything? O_o

Chicago doesn't have anything? O_o

It is already built.....

I wonder if Salt Lake City sends Istook a thank you card every time they add to the rail based transit system?

Found this map today. Although it is from 2011 it give a good overview of rail across the nation (and Canada)

http://www.thetransportpolitic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/2011-Openings1.jpg

It's interesting that it only lists the LA rail system as Light Rail. Actually it's a combination of Light Rail, Commuter Rail, and Subway.

Just 2 years removed from calls for closing it, the Jacksonville Skyway is set for a $20 million expansion into the downtown adjacent Brooklyn neighborhood. Note - our newsreaders here are as clueless as they get. It is not a monorail and it isn't expanding to Riverside as the story claims.

Building Up and Out in $20M Skyway Expansion | firstcoastnews.com (http://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/article/317034/3/Building-Up-and-Out-in-20M-Skyway-Expansion)

Apologies are owed our local newsreaders. Acting on a tip I went and looked at the Skyway and it is a monorail.

Now the transit system that is constantly under scrutiny is putting together a $20 million expansion.Why is it under scrutiny???? This seems awesome and I really want to see something like this here in OKC!

Tempe, AZ is getting some federal funding for their street car system. They are looking at 2 alternatives right now.

http://secure.surveymonkey.com/_resources/16406/41296406/674042e5-78a2-4f9b-92ff-23f5a71640c7.gif

ADOT is also currently expanding the 20 mile Metro Light Rail line by 3.2 miles to the north and 3.1 miles to the east through downtown Mesa. Metro Light Rail will connect the downtown's of Phoenix, Tempe and Mesa

Why is it under scrutiny???? This seems awesome and I really want to see something like this here in OKC!

For 20 years the Skyway was a total failure. The City (and many residents) have wanted to tear it down but if we did the City would have to repay the federal government the cost of building it - about $80 million. It cost the city about $5 million per year to operate it. The biggest challenge is that until a few years ago there were not any residential units along the line which meant ridership was limited to people going from parking garages to offices and people going to lunch. Last year the fare was eliminated and since then ridership has boomed. The last time I rode it the tram was standing room only, and that was on a Saturday.

The biggest draw back though is that it is elevated so as you ride on it you can't see what you are passing. Like skywalks and underground tunnels, it is putting the limited number of pedestrian on multiple horizontal levels - one of which has zero connectivity to anything along the route. Plus, the elevated station are expensive to build when that money could be better spent extending the distance. I wish Jacksonville would spend the money on streetcars.

For 20 years the Skyway was a total failure. The City (and many residents) have wanted to tear it down but if we did the City would have to repay the federal government the cost of building it - about $80 million. It cost the city about $5 million per year to operate it. The biggest challenge is that until a few years ago there were not any residential units along the line which meant ridership was limited to people going from parking garages to offices and people going to lunch. Last year the fare was eliminated and since then ridership has boomed. The last time I rode it the tram was standing room only, and that was on a Saturday.

The biggest draw back though is that it is elevated so as you ride on it you can't see what you are passing. Like skywalks and underground tunnels, it is putting the limited number of pedestrian on multiple horizontal levels - one of which has zero connectivity to anything along the route. Plus, the elevated station are expensive to build when that money could be better spent extending the distance. I wish Jacksonville would spend the money on streetcars.I think that is cool. . . you are able to see the city below.

I think that is cool. . . you are able to see the city below.

Not really - you just see in the 2nd/3rd floor window of office buildings, unless you want to put your head against the glass and look down the side..

Not really - you just see in the 2nd/3rd floor window of office buildings, unless you want to put your head against the glass and look down the side..Is the monorail a replacement for a street car? I thought street cars are for short distance transport and I look at a monorail as long distance(intercity) travel. . .

The monorails I have been on top out about 40 mph. I am sure they can go faster but they are real bumpy. I know I wouldn't want to do 60 mph in one - and 80 mph - forget it.

Every once in a while you just get tired beating your head against a wall.

Under the Drudge headline of "Will Honolulu be the Next Detroit" we get this story.

Light-Rail to Nowhere: Honolulu, Hawaii's Train Boondoggle - Reason.com (http://reason.com/reasontv/2013/08/01/hawaiis-rail-boondoggle)

I'm not going to quote anything - read it for yourself.

Smh.... sad to watch people lose their ability to see or think beyond their own nose.

The INRIX Index has estimated that Honolulu drivers waste an average of 58 hours in traffic every year during peak travel times.

I get the feeling the time spent in traffic was originally calculated by someone who was for the project. Though given the number of tourists and some of the dense areas they have, a system could be developed there that could be first class but making your numbers sound inflated is a bad sign your argument is on shaky ground.

58 hours per year * (60 min / 1 hour) = 3480 min per year

3480 min per year / 260 weekdays per year = 13.4 minutes per weekday

I came across this book the other day. With access to the internet I am not sure if a printed book is really a viable product, but it would make an interesting coffee table book.

Transit Maps of the World: Mark Ovenden, Mike Ashworth: 9780143112655: Amazon.com: Books (http://www.amazon.com/Transit-Maps-World-Mark-Ovenden/dp/0143112651)

Just wanted to post this information about San Antonio's soon to be under construction street car system.

After rolling out BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) last year, VIA, San Antonio's mass transit agency is now on the verge of bringing modern, wireless streetcars to the urban core of San Antonio. This is part of VIA's greater plan to introduce BRT, Streetcar and Lightrail to go along with the bus service.

The streetcar starter system will consist of two lines. One north-south and the other east-west. Both lines are funded and the start system will cost nearly 300 million dollars. The two lines should be up and running by 2017.

VIA is now in the route selection phase and will pick a route this month.

These are the "final four" routes proposed to VIA.


http://therivardreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Streetcar-alt-5-July-2013-1024x779.jpg

http://therivardreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Streetcar-alt-6-July-2013-1024x780.jpg

http://therivardreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Streetcar-alt-7-July-2013.jpg

http://therivardreport.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Streetcar-alt-8-July-2013.jpg

The overwhelming favorite has been Alternative 6.

This is one of many major projects, costing over 150 million dollars, planned for downtown San Antonio.

The others are:

Hemisfair Park redevelopment (http://www.hemisfair.org/pdfs/2012-06-18_Hemisfair_Framework_and_Master_Plan.pdf) (150 million)
San Pedro Creek redevelopment (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/article/Bexar-launches-175-million-San-Pedro-Creek-4536417.php#photo-4661746) (175-200 million)
San Antonio Convention Center expansion (http://blog.mysanantonio.com/downtown/wp-content/blogs.dir/667/files/renderings-of-the-convention-center-expansion/ccexpand3.jpg) (325-350 million)

So, with the street car included, there is nearly 1 billion dollars being invested into the downtown area of San Antonio during the next 3-4 years.

Well, today, VIA chose Alternative 6. The longest and most expensive of the four choices. The north/south line will also be extended to reach the Southtown district.


VIA Metropolitan Transit planners Tuesday recommended building the longest and most expensive of the streetcar routes under consideration for the agency's first rail line.

Known as Alternative 6, the route would be 5.9 miles long, cost $280 million to build and require $8.5 million annually to operate and maintain. But it would also result in high ridership, a consultant said — about 1.4 million passengers a year.

The route would travel north-south using Broadway and St. Mary's and Navarro streets. Planners have also recommended extending the line further south on St. Mary's into Southtown, all the way to Alamo Street. The original plan had the route stopping at Cesar E. Chavez Boulevard.

MYSA.com link (http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/local/article/VIA-s-preferred-streetcar-route-is-the-longest-4801404.php)

Via Jane Jenkins by email about the Twin Cities and their citizen's happiness near light rail-

Twin Cities' Residents Near Transit Found to Be Happier (http://urbanland.uli.org/Articles/2013/Sep/AndersonHappiness?utm_source=uli&utm_medium=eblast&utm_campaign=093013#.Ukne6UkPttc.mailto)

Just thought I would post video of the Jacksonville Skyway during One Spark. Some trains were so packed no one could get on.

YnsyCfUWogg

Oh I guess this would have been the better place to put my post about the Tucson system I rode over thanksgiving...

Sid, isn't San Diego's system a streetcar? If not, what is the difference between a streetcar and a trolley?

Thanks.

http://greatergreater.com/images/201412/090058.pngWhat's your favorite? Mine would probably be Portland.

How old is Philly's system? That seems incredibly long.

SEPTA Subway?Surface Trolley Lines - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SEPTA_Subway%E2%80%93Surface_Trolley_Lines)

How big will ours be in comparison to those?

Interesting read...

A streetcar not desired? - Kevin Robillard - POLITICO (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/a-streetcar-not-desired-113804.html)

What is so interesting about it? A bunch of highway construction lobbyist and their paid politicians don't like streetcars. Where is the news in that? The Atlanta streetcar had two crashes in the first 5 days of testing. Do you know how many Atlantans were killed in traffic accidents in those same 5 days? I'll bet it was more than 2. Just once it would be nice for some balance in reporting. How about a headline that reads, "After $10 Trillion in Highway Spending Congestion Is Worse Than Ever".

What is so interesting about it? A bunch of highway construction lobbyist and their paid politicians don't like streetcars. Where is the news in that? The Atlanta streetcar had two crashes in the first 5 days of testing. Do you know how many Atlantans were killed in traffic accidents in those same 5 days? I'll bet it was more than 2. Just once it would be nice for some balance in reporting. How about a headline that reads, "After $10 Trillion in Highway Spending Congestion Is Worse Than Ever".

Well Kerry, you don't have to agree with something to find it interesting. Sometimes it's just the opposite.

What is so interesting about it? A bunch of highway construction lobbyist and their paid politicians don't like streetcars. Where is the news in that? The Atlanta streetcar had two crashes in the first 5 days of testing. Do you know how many Atlantans were killed in traffic accidents in those same 5 days? I'll bet it was more than 2. Just once it would be nice for some balance in reporting. How about a headline that reads, "After $10 Trillion in Highway Spending Congestion Is Worse Than Ever".

Did you read the article or just scan it for something you could try to refute without backing it up? I don't know how many Atlantans were killed in traffic accidents during that period and neither do you but that was hardly the point of the article.

What is so interesting about it? A bunch of highway construction lobbyist and their paid politicians don't like streetcars. Where is the news in that? The Atlanta streetcar had two crashes in the first 5 days of testing. Do you know how many Atlantans were killed in traffic accidents in those same 5 days? I'll bet it was more than 2. Just once it would be nice for some balance in reporting. How about a headline that reads, "After $10 Trillion in Highway Spending Congestion Is Worse Than Ever".
Because the population is growing faster than we can support it at the current rate of building and progress in some cities. I'll take a great highway system over a great mass transit system.

I am also worried that our route in OKC is going to be extremely underused. I hope it isn't and I hope our ridership beats expectations, but I just have a gut feeling it won't be used like some claim. I still want to see it built regardless and I will certainly use it.

Y
Because the population is growing faster than we can support it at the current rate of building and progress in some cities. I'll take a great highway system over a great mass transit system.

I am also worried that our route in OKC is going to be extremely underused. I hope it isn't and I hope our ridership beats expectations, but I just have a gut feeling it won't be used like some claim. I still want to see it built regardless and I will certainly use it.

Actually, because of the city's growth, what it really needs is a commuter rail and bus system that links to the streetcar. Then you'll see very significant use as it becomes the "last mile" for commuters. Highways only lead to more cars and more pollution.

Rail could make a comeback in O.C. with proposed streetcar line - LA Times (http://www.latimes.com/local/orangecounty/la-me-california-commute-20150512-story.html)

Mass transit will increase traffic - gotta love it.

How big will ours be in comparison to those?

I usually expect to hear this in a mystery tower thread or....

Interesting read...

A streetcar not desired? - Kevin Robillard - POLITICO (http://www.politico.com/story/2014/12/a-streetcar-not-desired-113804.html)

It's a hatchet piece, not an interesting read. It highlights a minority objection and then jumps to a conclusion: "Streetcar not supported!" (Not supported by whom?) or "Efforts to revive a classic form of transit derailed!" (Classic? Derailed, where - in the one example of Arlington, where supporters just wanted the Feds to give them an egregiously expensive one?)

To post that link is not a thoughtful contribution to this topic...

The only real fact in that article is that Obama's FTA has spent $500 million on streetcars, which is just 1/19th what it spends on highways in a year. To dig further than the article did, the same FTA requires a local match and unanimity in process in order to be competitive for that funding, which is not the way it just gives out highway money left and right.

I think you may be overreacting to the article. To deny there have been and are some problems is to deny reality. Not every perspective is that there are sunshine and roses everywhere. The only way to improve things is to recognize defects and correct them. That doesn't mean we or anyone else should quit looking at them as a viable option, but just as we ask everyone to be realistic about expectations for our CC, we should be realistic about our expectations for the streetcar.

Even in Portland they are able to admit: Portland Streetcar annual ridership inflated by 19 percent, 1.1 million rides, audit reports | OregonLive.com (http://www.oregonlive.com/portland/index.ssf/2014/12/portland_streetcar_annual_ride.html)

Similarly, "admit" is a strange word to use. I know that this doesn't comfort people who are anti-transit, but honestly with rapid boarding systems, there is literally NO way to accurately pinpoint ridership figures. Probably the safest method would be to take fares, estimate avg rides on a day pass, then add fare non-compliance figures. Further complicating the scenario with rapid boarding concepts are "fare-free zones" which are most streetcar downtowns. A ridership "audit" is usually a person in a vest with an iPad just counting passengers - looking at the front doors, and not the rear.

The reason that getting the wording right, whether you use "admit" to imply some dastardly streetcar deed up in Portland, or whether it's an all-around hatchet piece by a middle right news organization like POLITICO (all caps bc sic) that usually covers Congressional politics, is because this matters. Streetcars can be a powerful transit tool if used right, and we don't do NEARLY enough on it, we aren't gearing up to really do anymore than we already have, and the collateral damage is the cities that go unserved by transit agencies that have morphed over time into social welfare agencies.

They call that "equity planning," while in my book there is very little equity when the transit-dependent aren't offered transit dignity, and then all of a sudden we are getting political and involving reporters on both sides, and forgetting what can be done when we work together to build a holistic transportation network. Transportation is not an end; the built environment that gets developed is the end, and transportation is just the means to an end. That planning virtue goes both ways, as it should smack transit planners with their "Levels of Service" grades that obliterate the cities they serve, just as it should caution transit planners who think of transit as merely getting a carless person from Point A to Point B.

I split hairs here because in general, mainstream news reporting on streetcars is cringe-worthy. Sometimes it's as benign as just mincing words (like calling it a "trolley," which is very harmful) and awkward phrasing, but sometimes it's targeted to drum up opposition (whether it be to create a news story where there wasn't, or to assist news allies, it's the same thing and it's a common practice with streetcar coverage). Notice how whether the reporter is in a sophisticated news market or a down-home kinda place, the coverage is purposefully awkward so as to maintain the reporter's populist appeal, because those newfangled streetcar things are weeeird.

As costs were cut, D.C.?s streetcars were left frozen in tracks - The Washington Post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/dc-streetcar-line-gets-latest-tough-report-card/2015/07/09/110d2592-266d-11e5-b77f-eb13a215f593_story.html?postshare=4921436529134146 )

Overall, U.S. Streetcars Just Aren't Meeting the Standards of Good Transit

Since the U.S. streetcar revival relies heavily on transportation subsidies, it's only fair to expect the latest wave of streetcar lines to produce benefits related to (wait for it) transportation. But the new systems in operation—ten by the latest tally, with a few dozen more being planned—have left much to be desired on that seemingly essential count. Notwithstanding the legacy system in New Orleans, the best evidence to date places streetcars somewhat outside the transit network, more a tool for tourism than city mobility.

Overall, U.S. Streetcars Just Aren't Meeting the Standards of Good Transit - CityLab (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/09/overall-us-streetcars-just-arent-meeting-the-standards-of-good-transit/379516/?utm_source=SFFB)

Overall, U.S. Streetcars Just Aren't Meeting the Standards of Good Transit

Since the U.S. streetcar revival relies heavily on transportation subsidies, it's only fair to expect the latest wave of streetcar lines to produce benefits related to (wait for it) transportation. But the new systems in operation—ten by the latest tally, with a few dozen more being planned—have left much to be desired on that seemingly essential count. Notwithstanding the legacy system in New Orleans, the best evidence to date places streetcars somewhat outside the transit network, more a tool for tourism than city mobility.

Overall, U.S. Streetcars Just Aren't Meeting the Standards of Good Transit - CityLab (http://www.citylab.com/commute/2014/09/overall-us-streetcars-just-arent-meeting-the-standards-of-good-transit/379516/?utm_source=SFFB)

Posting a year-old article that's already been critiqued in this thread...

Posting a year-old article that's already been critiqued in this thread...

It's new to me. On a second look from the date of the article forward, I don't see it in this thread. I'm sure it's here somewhere. Cite?

It's new to me. On a second look from the date of the article forward, I don't see it in this thread. I'm sure it's here somewhere. Cite?

Might not have been this thread, but I know we talked about it on here somewhere... search sometimes doesn't work well.

Might not have been this thread, but I know we talked about it on here somewhere... search sometimes doesn't work well.

No sweat.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/08/02/kansas_city_s_streetcar_is_counting_crazy_high_rid ership.html

Nice Article!.. I know for Atlanta its a tough sell because traffic is so bad you can walk to the destination faster than being stuck on the streetcar in traffic. I don't know that in-traffic street car was a good option for them.

Downtown Los Angeles and Downtown Santa Ana both have streetcar projects in the works. Santa Anta's is under construction and LA's is part of 30 billion dollar bond package with 15 billion or so going towards rail projects.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/2016/08/02/kansas_city_s_streetcar_is_counting_crazy_high_rid ership.html

Wow - interesting that it's free! But why not, right? We basically demand free parking everywhere we go, so I'm totally good with subsidizing mass transit for a change. Way to go KC!

If I understand correctly, the plan is for the OKC Streetcar to be free as well - at least initially.