mug- my apologies if you felt I was getting personal. I was referencing only our local and state unions and not the national levels when it comes to PAC's. The PAC's are 100% voluntary in my local. RC spouts more lies of what he does not understand. Maybe he should ask his friends and relatives of the fire department what the difference is between a PAC, PR or regular union dues. I don't enjoy politics or politicians but they are easier to deal with when you know the rules of their games. Alot of people within the Locals are becoming well versed on their games and it's pissing them off that we know how to play now.

I've heard several times from friends and relatives on the Fire Department about these so called "VOLUNTARY" contributions, quite laughable.
Come on junkie, please elaborate on what you know from whoever supposedly told you. Be specific so we'll all understand it as well as you do. Or have you already gone beyond your limited knowledge on the subject?

The higher pay of union members that helped encourage many non-unionized companies to have decent paying jobs surely played quite a major role over the years toward a more prosperous America. I feel high union pay had little to do with jobs going overseas, because with such jobs only paying .25 to .50 an hour, the unionized manufacturing American jobs probably could have been paying half as much and, yet, taking such jobs overseas would still look mighty attractive.

Come on junkie, please elaborate on what you know from whoever supposedly told you. Be specific so we'll all understand it as well as you do. Or have you already gone beyond your limited knowledge on the subject?

They all say the VOLUNTARY contribution you speak of is a joke, you either donate or your treated like you have the plague, of course you'll deny this, but we know you speak as they tell you to speak and what they want you to speak. Try being an independant thinker for once, you might find it refreshing.

They all say the VOLUNTARY contribution you speak of is a joke, you either donate or your treated like you have the plague, of course you'll deny this, but we know you speak as they tell you to speak and what they want you to speak. Try being an independant thinker for once, you might find it refreshing.
I see. So you're saying that although the contributions are strictly VOLUNTARY, as we've said all along, that someone you're related to or know is feeling a little intimidated, because they don't want to VOLUNTARILY contribute. Not sure who your relative or friend is junkster, but give him/her a little advice from me, tell him/her I said to grow a pair and stand up for him/herself. That he/she was even asked or shared that he/she wasn't contributing or intended to not contribute tells me he/she is easily intimidated and or lacks self esteem. Maybe a genetic thing, ya think? At my station I don't have any idea who does or doesn't contribute to these funds and they have no idea whether I do. For that matter I could be the only one who belongs to the union at my station and I wouldn't know it. You see, that's VOLUNTARY also.
So yeah, thanks for admitting that it is VOLUNTARY but your relative or friend lacks the intestinal fortitude to stand up for his/herself.
And that part about independent thinking, coming from you, was a real hoot. Thanks and come again.

RC- Wambo summed it it pretty nicely. Let me just add that about the time I think you may have a shred of decency and a hint of brain in your head you spout BS like your previous post. You truly are nothing more than an instigating moron that believes he was in management. You supervised HS and a small crew of adults mowing lawns part time; and contrary to posts in your other forum you were not loved and revered by all.

I'm closing this thread. Just in the last page I see countless examples of name calling and personal attacks.

I'm getting very close to banning a whole bunch of people if you don't stop getting personal and cease with the insults.


I understand people are passionate about these issues but there is absolutely no reason to ever get personal. Disagree, debate the points... That's all fair game. But the minute you start addressing someone personally rather than talking about a point that has been made, you've crossed the line.


I'm getting really tired of the emerging tone on all these threads and it's starting to leak into the rest of the boards. This is meant to be a forum where everyone can come to discuss Oklahoma City-based issues. If you cannot do that without resorting to grade school bickering, your posting privileges will be revoked.