Again, you come with nothing. I would think your Langston education would have taught you how to construct a sentence and at least forward a point.

let's cut it out with the personal stuff. we get it, parrwh. you don't like bbatesokc. now back to topic. -M

Back on topic of OKC prostitution..... At 3am a street prostitute named Lori Green (39) was murdered near 410 SW Grand Blvd. (FYI - that address appears on the sex offender registry). According to my source: She was murdered by a John she tried to rob. He strangled her and then had sex with the corpse. That is how he was found by friends of Green's - Who promptly removed him from the car and beat the crap out of him.

Very sad. i knew Lori and she could be a very pleasant person, but was very much a drug addict (but also a mother).

This is the 13th prostitute I've personally known that is now dead.

As much as I hate to bring back dead threads I have to comment on this. I do a lot of business at a motorcycle shop on south Robinson. ( I don't know if they would want to be mentioned in a thread about prostitutes but if you know the area you know the shop). I have noticed that this spring/summer there have been way fewer prostitutes in the area of SW 30th to SW 44th on Robinson. I don't know if it's due to some combination of police, Brian's efforts, simple timing or what but the area is not nearly as bad as it's been the past couple of years.

As much as I hate to bring back dead threads I have to comment on this. I do a lot of business at a motorcycle shop on south Robinson. ( I don't know if they would want to be mentioned in a thread about prostitutes but if you know the area you know the shop). I have noticed that this spring/summer there have been way fewer prostitutes in the area of SW 30th to SW 44th on Robinson. I don't know if it's due to some combination of police, Brian's efforts, simple timing or what but the area is not nearly as bad as it's been the past couple of years.

No one factor makes much difference, but combined efforts of police, citizens and business owners has a huge impact. As for now vs. then, some days the streets are deserted and others they are packed. The other day I turned on my camera and made one pass and recorded 18 hookers in 4 blocks all out at the same time. Yet a week ago a large studio was in town riding with me and they had to extend their stay by 3 days just to get hardly any footage at all.

One thing I like is the city is now prosecuting many of the cases instead of the county. This has a huge impact and is far less costly to tax payers, IMO.

Why are the prostitution stings always targeting heterosexual clients? Where are the stings targeting homosexuals? Are the police afraid of the backlash from the gay community? There a numerous instances of homosexual men picking up male prostitutes, taking them home and ultimately getting robbed.

Why are the prostitution stings always targeting heterosexual clients? Where are the stings targeting homosexuals? Are the police afraid of the backlash from the gay community? There a numerous instances of homosexual men picking up male prostitutes, taking them home and ultimately getting robbed.

Yeah, one of the reasons homosexuals are targets for theft and violence is reluctance on the part of the victim to report the crime on account of fear of being exposed as a homosexual.

It was funny how one time police nabbed a Baptist preacher in a parking lot by the Habana Inn for soliciting for sex. I wonder if the fall out from that was for the police to stop looking for gay prostitutes and their johns?

Why are the prostitution stings always targeting heterosexual clients? Where are the stings targeting homosexuals? Are the police afraid of the backlash from the gay community? There a numerous instances of homosexual men picking up male prostitutes, taking them home and ultimately getting robbed.

The official stance by OCPD admin is that due to the limited size of the OKC Vice squad they primarily prioritize based on public complaints (keeping in mind Vice handles all vice crimes and not just prostitution). And when the public complains about homosexual prostitution then they target it. That is probably the case some of the time but I don't necessarily believe that is the general rule. Vice has shut down some local underground gambling operations that I doubt anyone was complaining about and they've also never been able to produce complaints to rationalize their insistence on targeting online prostitution (even going so far as to lure Internet prostitutes into OKC from out of state). However, they get complaints almost daily regarding street prostitution, yet they only do a few stings a year.

I have though been told by officers that vice is full of deviant cops who just like to spend their days at massage parlors, strip bars (at tax payer expense) and literally hoping into bed with naked and often very attractive Internet prostitutes. I'm sure that's a little exaggerated by cops who just don't like the vice squad (surprisingly there seems to be alot of those).

The problem I've been told about targeting homosexual prostitution activity is that many times it is not actually 'prostitution' that is going on and is simply 'hooking up.' As evident in the Pastor Latham case. Latham was in an area known for homosexual male prostitution but the evidence was clear that he was not looking to pay for anything, nor conduct his sexual activity in public. I actually spoke out against his arrest and went to his two court appearances.

Prostitution arrests most often involve the arresting undercover officer to expose himself (get naked), get touched (intimately), talk pretty explicitly (dirty talk) or to even touch the targeted individual. While they seem to have no problem doing that to a $500/hr online escort, they tend to shy away from doing that when targeting homosexuals.

Usually when I read arrest reports from homosexual prostitution/lewd act arrests, the officer most intimately involved is a younger officer who was convinced he was paying his dues by doing the dirty work.

Speaking of victims of robbery stemming from a homosexual prostitution encounter. Had an officer tell me a story (this is the best I can remember the details) about a case he worked where a 'straight' man was beaten and robbed by a male prostitute at the Habana. The victim gave a good description and even a partial name. The officer went to the Habana and located the suspect. The suspect then admitted he had hidden part of the man's money in his rectum and it was stuck. The officer had to have the man transported to the hospital and wait for the money to be 'released.' They then had to clean the money and put it into an evidence bag. He too was shocked the victim came forward.

Happens with straight prostitution though too. Many of the girls on Robinson rob their Johns. The dumbest thing a John can do is wear his wedding ring while picking up a hooker. The hookers know that after they rob him he will not dare tell police or his wife it was a hooker. Instead it will be the stereotypical "Three black dudes jumped me while I was at the car wash."

Below is a pick of two hookers. The one on the left is concealing a brick under her clothes (used to rob Johns). She's a convicted felon so she can't be caught with a gun or knife. Plus if the police pull up she can just casually drop the brick and the cop will take no notice of it. The other hooker is currently in a Texas prison for armed robbery. When she gets out she faces a felony here that could result in her having to register as a sex offender.
http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/4612/screenshot20110616at125.png

Brian, since I haven't lived in Oklahoma for a while, I've only recently made the connection to your 'video vigilante' activities.

I know this started because of activity in your neighborhood (correct?) but perhaps you could expand on why this all has become such an obsession.

Also, why were you at the Ersland trial and why did you get involved in the Lonnie Latham case?

I hope my questions don't sound judgmental... I'm just honestly curious and I bet others are as well. (And forgive me if you've explained this before, as I may have missed it.)

Brian, since I haven't lived in Oklahoma for a while, I've only recently made the connection to your 'video vigilante' activities.

I know this started because of activity in your neighborhood (correct?) but perhaps you could expand on why this all has become such an obsession.

Also, why were you at the Ersland trial and why did you get involved in the Lonnie Latham case?

I hope my questions don't sound judgmental... I'm just honestly curious and I bet others are as well. (And forgive me if you've explained this before, as I may have missed it.)

No problem. However, I can't help but assume you're at least being a tad judgmental by your use of the word 'obsession' - as I rarely see that word used in a positive light.

Its actually no more 'obsessive' than anyone else who goes to their job every day. My job is just very untraditional and requires no more than about 15 hours a week. While controversial, I actually take myself far less seriously than many of my critics or even fans.

The short version: My activism started in 1996 when I did indeed live in a neighborhood plagued with street prostitution, violent pimps and drug dealing. At the time I worked for Children's and University Hospital and simply wanted the hookers and the criminal element they attracted out of my neighborhood. It was invigorating for my community, got me my 15-minutes of fame and I found the topic eye-opening and full of never ending questions to which the answers were never clear. My activism and my footage became in demand by studios all over the world. In 2000ish I signed an exclusivity contract with the Maury Povich Show (some people laugh at the thought, but they have been very good to me and my family) and signed production deals with a couple of cable channels. I then quit my traditional job and turned my activism into commercial activism (meaning I was now making a living from licensing my footage). In 2004 I decided the Video Vigilante commercial activism had run its course and I was retiring. I had re-enrolled and was attending college to get a degree in journalism and was looking for a marketing job. Literally the day I was hired by a large company for another marketing job, I was arrested and charged with pimping. Naturally the new job was now gone and I returned to being the Video Vigilante, if for no other reason than to cause then DA Lane grief until my charges were settled. However, in the end the charges were an unbelievable God send. The media attention made my footage even more in demand and in 2008ish YouTube offered me a Partnership (meaning they pay me based on my view counts - over 42 million views so far). My journalism EMMY in 2009 also gave me a boost. Since then I've decided being a commercial activist regarding street prostitution is my thing and it allows me to do what I want when I want and make a good living. The results of my footage I also find very satisfying. While my footage is licensed for stories about me that air on TrueTV, MSNBC, etc. most of my clients license my footage for very intense documentaries regarding human trafficking, prostitution, street drug dealing etc. I've worked with some of the biggest production studios and media outlets in the world and have several projects going on right now. It doesn't make me rich, but it pays far above average and meets my goals.

I have always been interested in the justice system, but my charges really amped up my interest. I also do lots of freelance work for cable news shows (MSNBC, CNN, Court TV, etc.) pulling public records for use in the production of shows and news reports. That got me attending lots of trials. I'm a regular at the court house and people have no idea the real stories that never get covered by the local news. I attended the Ersland trial because it was of great interest to me. I attended Latham's appearances (there was no trial) because I felt what police and the DA did was wrong and doing under the guise of fighting prostitution was even more wrong. I also am a licensed private investigator and I am hired to work on many cases, both high profile and obscure, so that has me at the courthouse a lot too.

I guess its as close to my real dream job that I'm ever got get (being a warzone videographer or African Sahara videographer of wildlife).

However, I can't help but assume you're at least being a tad judgmental by your use of the word 'obsession' - as I rarely see that word used in a positive light.

I honestly didn't mean it that way. I have several obsessions myself, including this site and OKC in general (which should be obvious from my involvement here). I'm also obsessed with triathlon, animals and a few other areas. And I make at least part of my living from obsessions, so I get that, too.


I really appreciate the detailed reply. I certainly can understand how an interest can progress in this way, especially if you can make a good living at it on your own terms.

If I was able to do that with this site, for example, I would consider moving back and making it happen. And my primary purpose would be to marry something that is already a passion with profit while also providing a valuable community service. Sound familiar?? :Smiley093

I honestly didn't mean it that way. I have several obsessions myself, including this site and OKC in general (which should be obvious from my involvement here). I'm also obsessed with triathlon, animals and a few other areas. And I make at least part of my living from obsessions, so I get that, too.


I really appreciate the detailed reply. I certainly can understand how an interest can progress in this way, especially if you can make a good living at it on your own terms.

If I was able to do that with this site, for example, I would consider moving back and making it happen. And my primary purpose would be to marry something that is already a passion with profit while also providing a valuable community service. Sound familiar?? :Smiley093

I get it. And we don't know each other so its hard to judge 'tone', word usage etc.

I tend to refer to it as a 'passion' over obsession. I see an obsession as something closer to an addiction that even though you tell yourself you can control, it actually controls you. I intentionally give the impression I am on Robinson 24/7 and this is all I do, but in reality its probably no more than 15 hours a week total at most.

Everyone has their motivator. Some people its their kids, others its money, some its power, etc. My motivator is just doing something I really like and not having to answer to a traditional boss. I do other community minded efforts like food pantries, food bank and habitat, but I have to limit those activities because they provide no income. I couldn't do my Video Vigilante stuff either if it did not provide an income - and it only provides an income due to advancing technologies.

I wish more emphasis in school was put on doing what you have a passion for and finding a way to monetize it as opposed to "just get a good paying J.O.B."

Yes, passion is probably a better word than obsession in this context.

And I totally agree with youth being encouraged to follow their passion and find a way to make it into a career. The problem with schools is that most teachers (even at the college level) only know school -- they are products of a self-perpetuating and completely insular industry.

Young people only know what they see, which is why most spout the most obvious professions (teacher, professional athlete, cop, fireman, lawyer, doctor, nurse) when asked what they "want to do". But of course 99.99% of all jobs don't fit those categories.

I was a product of business school (both undergrad and masters) and even then a poor job was done in this regard. It takes most of us decades of working before figuring out what we really want to do and how to make a living at it.

i saw the king of the hill episode the other night where a new employee at strickland propane turned out to be a prostitute and her pimp was "alabaster jones" - the "main mack" of oklahoma city, and was voiced by snoop dogg. funny episode...

One of my favorites was when they depicted me (as played by Gil McKinney) in the show 'Saving Grace.' Wasn't a flattering depiction, but I still got a kick out of it.

As described online:

This episode contains a character named Clifford Durkin who is introduced about 17.5 minutes into the program. Durkin's character is a religious zealot who founded 'John Watch.' Durkin uses a video camera to capture men soliciting prostitutes and then outs them publicly. Durkin's camera ends up capturing the episode's killer on tape. Durkin's character is a reference to Oklahoma native Brian Bates, also known as The Video Vigilante and founder of JohnTV.com. Since 1996 Bates has been featured locally, nationally and internationally for his efforts to document and dissuade acts of public, forced and/or organized prostitution in Oklahoma City.

Brian, how many gay dudes have you caught in action?

I wish more emphasis in school was put on doing what you have a passion for and finding a way to monetize it as opposed to "just get a good paying J.O.B."

Not to get too much off topic, and this might just be an age difference issue, but I wish that schools, especially universities, would better inform students about their job prospects in their chosen field. I know some of my peers are having a great deal of difficulty finding work coming out of undergraduate study.

They aren't really interested in how you do later, they got your money. Universities are, after all, part of the military-industrial-education complex and as a consequense, not accountable for their actions.

Brian, how many gay dudes have you caught in action?

Virtually none. I don't target homosexual prostitution because too often its simply public lewdness. Just like I wouldn't ever target heterosexual non-prostitution public lewdness.

Virtually none. I don't target homosexual prostitution because too often its simply public lewdness. Just like I wouldn't ever target heterosexual non-prostitution public lewdness.

Yes, I'm safe!!! :-P

Woman arrested in OKC stabbing death
A woman has been arrested in the death of a man in south Oklahoma City. The man's body was found Sunday in his apartment.

BY ROBERT MEDLEY rmedley@opubco.com Oklahoman 0
Published: June 17, 2011


A woman who was seen with a man found stabbed to death in his bedroom has been arrested, police said Friday.

Amanda Christina Hunter, 28, surrendered at the Oklahoma County jail about 3 p.m. Wednesday after an arrest warrant was issued in connection with the death of Osmani Enrique Chicas-Melgar, 25, of Oklahoma City.

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/1445804/medium

Woman arrested in OKC stabbing death Chicas-Melgar was found stabbed to death in his apartment at 5800 NW 34 about 1 p.m. Sunday, police said.

Investigators talked to several people that day to develop information about the suspect, a news release from Oklahoma City police states.

An arrest affidavit filed in Oklahoma County District Court states Chicas-Melgar's roommate saw the woman go into his bedroom and then leave after another man showed up. Chicas-Melgar was found dead the next morning by the roommate.

Another witness told police Hunter was a prostitute who exchanged sex for drugs with Melgar.



Read more: http://newsok.com/woman-arrested-in-okc-stabbing-death/article/3578017#ixzz1PZ97CCgF

Many people think prostitutes are not real criminals who commit real crimes. I often get critics saying things like.... "Why don't you go after some real criminals, like murderers, robbers, drug dealers and sex offenders!" I'm here to tell you, of the street variety, many are all that and more! I know two in prison right now for murder, several who served time for armed robbery (one for bank robbery), and numerous with violent criminal convictions for assault and maiming. More often than not they have arrests/convictions for drug dealing (not just possession) and two who work our streets right now are registered sex offenders. And those are just the one's I know personally.

While they are most often victims, they are also not above being a victimizer.

Many people think prostitutes are not real criminals who commit real crimes. I often get critics saying things like.... "Why don't you go after some real criminals, like murderers, robbers, drug dealers and sex offenders!" I'm here to tell you, of the street variety, many are all that and more! I know two in prison right now for murder, several who served time for armed robbery (one for bank robbery), and numerous with violent criminal convictions for assault and maiming. More often than not they have arrests/convictions for drug dealing (not just possession) and two who work our streets right now are registered sex offenders. And those are just the one's I know personally.

While they are most often victims, they are also not above being a victimizer.

Most prostitutes have been victimized at some point - I think there is some truth to that. But you could say the same thing about most violent criminals. Most people don't generally wake up one day and out of the blue decide to slash someone's throat to steal their wallet.

What I saw, frequently, as a guardian ad litem were kids who had been sexual abuse victims turn right around and abuse smaller kids - often using threats and actual violence (I'm talking kids as young as 6 years old). This happened so often that we did our level best to make sure that sex abuse victims weren't placed in foster families with small children around. 8 years olds who hold a knife to a four year old's throat for a blow job aren't going to wince at hitting someone else in the head with a brick for their iphone when they are ten years older. Take away empathy, lack of societal boundaries and a sense of right and wrong and that is what you're left with, all too often.

Studies show that this is the most frequent path:

1. Sexually and/or physical abused at home as a child (fully 75% of all prostitutes have this experience)
2. Leaving home early due to this abuse
3. Being homeless, young and without life skills, prostitution brings quick money
4. Getting involved with prostitution usually means drugs and then addiction
5. Drug use and addiction leads to all types of other desperate crimes


For years, I ran a nonprofit agency in Los Angeles that provided services to at-risk youth and one of our programs was outreach to the teenage homeless. Our goal was get them before #3 above.

Studies show that this is the most frequent path:

1. Sexually and/or physical abused at home as a child (fully 75% of all prostitutes have this experience)
2. Leaving home early due to this abuse
3. Being homeless, young and without life skills, prostitution brings quick money
4. Getting involved with prostitution usually means drugs and then addiction
5. Drug use and addiction leads to all types of other desperate crimes


For years, I ran a nonprofit agency in Los Angeles that provided services to at-risk youth and one of our programs was outreach to the teenage homeless. Our goal was get them before #3 above.

So true. With one startling exception, every single child I dealt with that turned to prostitution followed this route. The one child I dealt with that became a prostitute "for fun" was a stone cold sociopath who scared all of us. She was the type who would slit your throat for fun and laugh about it, afterward. I've been criticized for saying that Johns contribute to the degradation of these women with the comment that you can't save the world, but after seeing abused kids enter the life and turn hard, I have strong feelings about the subject. Too many people treat them as human refuse. That doesn't mean that they don't have more than their share of violent criminals among them. Anyone so abused/drug infected that they enter "the life" is at high risk to turn feral.

Another thing I see alot is prostitution passed down from mother to daughter. There are four separate sets of mother/daughter prostitution duos in the South Robinson area that I know of.

One of the most memorable was Yvonne (see her interview below). Her mother was a Robinson prostitute and she sold Yvonne into prostitution at 11 years old.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH5KnOoAfKc

I have also testified on behalf of the state against street prostitutes that were grooming their children to become prostitutes and the state was seeking to terminate parental rights.

The girl (Teresa) below was also turned out by her mother. I still remember when Teresa was a pre-teen and would be on Robinson begging her mother to stop prostituting and come home. Eventually her mother began shooting her up with heroin and then turned her out on the streets with her.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/958/screenshot20110617at501.png

I have never understood and, god willling, will never understand how a mother can sell her child into prostitution or look the other way when her husband, boyfriend or whathaveyou sexually abuses her child. But it is terrifically common (at least the latter).

Another thing I see alot is prostitution passed down from mother to daughter. There are four separate sets of mother/daughter prostitution duos in the South Robinson area that I know of.

One of the most memorable was Yvonne (see her interview below). Her mother was a Robinson prostitute and she sold Yvonne into prostitution at 11 years old.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH5KnOoAfKc

I have also testified on behalf of the state against street prostitutes that were grooming their children to become prostitutes and the state was seeking to terminate parental rights.

The girl (Teresa) below was also turned out by her mother. I still remember when Teresa was a pre-teen and would be on Robinson begging her mother to stop prostituting and come home. Eventually her mother began shooting her up with heroin and then turned her out on the streets with her.

http://img543.imageshack.us/img543/958/screenshot20110617at501.png

How is Yvonne doing currently?
I knew that she turned her life around and was doing pretty good.

How is Yvonne doing currently?
I knew that she turned her life around and was doing pretty good.

I hope she is doing well. Not long after NightLine came and did an episode featuring her she disappeared. Her beauty salon in Yukon closed, she separated from her husband and I never heard from her again. Its easy to speculate her life spiraled out of control, but I'm not certain that is what happened. I do think she became overwhelmed though. She literally went from homeless hooker drug addict to married educated beauty salon owner within about 24 months.

This was an update FOX25 did....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hW4skrGR8Fo

Wow, what a story. I hope wherever she is that Yvonne is okay.


It's very, very difficult for fully-formed adults to make deep, lasting change... At best there is a constant struggle and lots of ups and downs that frequently last a lifetime. That's why it's so important to help young people before they go down these paths because once they do, it's infinitely harder to pull them back.

They aren't really interested in how you do later, they got your money. Universities are, after all, part of the military-industrial-education complex and as a consequense, not accountable for their actions.

HUGE conflict of interest, if you ask me.

i saw the king of the hill episode the other night where a new employee at strickland propane turned out to be a prostitute and her pimp was "alabaster jones" - the "main mack" of oklahoma city, and was voiced by snoop dogg. funny episode...

That episode was AWESOME. Snoop heads back to the OKC where he has a "stable" of hoes. Hank even drops a little smack, something to the effect of "No offense, but you're from OKlahoma...." when saying Hank could take Alabaster in a fight.

When did Jesse's close?

When did Jesse's close?

I dunno. I'm still around. :-)

i saw the king of the hill episode the other night where a new employee at strickland propane turned out to be a prostitute and her pimp was "alabaster jones" - the "main mack" of oklahoma city, and was voiced by snoop dogg. funny episode...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6OzU9nste5c

I dunno. I'm still around. :-)

It was a legendary place back in the 1960's--and before...OKC's version of the Texas Chicken Ranch (not that kind Thunder)...SE of Dallas...

FYI - If anyone is interested, I post to Instagram on a semi-regular basis. If you have an iPhone or other iDevice you can follow me within the Instagram app (VideoVigilante) or online via Webstagram (http://web.stagram.com/n/videovigilante/).

I dunno. I'm still around. :-)

Not very many here know your real name, Jess ......er, uh, I mean .....Thunder.

Just posted this last night after police contacted me. The media hasn't picked up on this yet, but its a tragic example of the depths of hell some area prostitutes/drug addicts will go to get their fix....

OKC Prostitute Sought in Connection to Rape & Blinding of 3-year Old Child (http://johntv.com/?p=1308)

A time lapse example of the street prostitution on one corner on South Robinson Ave.

http://www.twitvid.com/3M1SY

A time lapse example of the street prostitution on one corner on South Robinson Ave.

http://www.twitvid.com/3M1SY

Thats quite a busy intesection. I kept thinking i hope that dog dosnt get hit by a car.

Doesn't look like that girl got many offers

Doesn't look like that girl got many offers

None of them got picked up - which is surprising.

I also just posted the same time lapse footage to my JohnTV Google+ account if you're curious about G+. I like that the videos are much larger there.

https://plus.google.com/117865876432211917324/posts

That was a pretty stupid video. I hope the dog's OK.

So much for a robust economy. Even the S Robinson street vendors are having tough times

So much for a robust economy. Even the S Robinson street vendors are having tough times

I'm waiting for a price reduction

I'm waiting for a price reduction

I'm waiting for this "1 hour date" to be included in the next stimulus package.

Do the girls compete on their prices or is price fixing afoot? This is strictly an academic question? :-)

One reliable version of events says the women traded the child to the men for a few hours in exchange for drugs...

This kind of thing breaks my heart. I don't really care what they do to themselves, but hurting children for drugs/gambling money/fun/anything should get you the needle...

The OPA sets the prices for specific services, potential fines if the fee structure is now followed closely.

Oklahoma City is growing in population at a good steady pace, but not all growth is good, we all hear about the good things about the economy growth of Oklahoma City, but we rarely hear about the crime growth, in particular prostitution.

It seems that the prostitution problem in Oklahoma City is getting worse, and expanding to more different parts of the city. Long has S. Robinson been the focal point for prostitution in Oklahoma City, however S. Robinson is no longer the premier track for prostitution Oklahoma City. You now have 10th and McArthur, 122nd and I-35 truck stop, but more astonishing strip clubs.

The strip club prostitution scene has become a major animal that authorities now can't control. I don't understand how a police station can sit in between 3 strip clubs, (literally), and not enforce prostitution in those strip clubs where its the worst. As "john's" and prostitutes are being smarter, and getting off the streets and taking it inside to the strip clubs, where "john's" can simply pick up a prostitute, and leave, and then the prostitute can come back to work in the strip club. Even more, the bartenders/managers of the strip club know this goes on, but they receive a cut.

It seems that the OKC authorities are not taking this seriously and in some fashion they are silently decriminalizing prostitution in Oklahoma City as its getting worse, not better.

This seems to me akin to the subject Alphie Kohn discusses in his excellent work, "Punished by Rewards". Kohn points out that teachers, employers, and parents frequently discipline with both punishments/threats and rewards/bribes. One of the key points Kohn makes while pointing out rewards are as destructive as punishments since both are used to manipulate (that what's wrong is not the reward itself but saying "do this and get that", the process of manipulating), is that both rewards and punishments seek to manipulate a person into performing a certain action, but never confront the original problem.

In other words, whether using punishments or rewards - in this case, probably stricter punishments on prostitution - using either avoids the underlying problem. What is the underlying problem at the root of prostitution? A lack of employment opportunities. If we were to fix employment in the city, as well as the lack of shelter options (no place but the City Rescue Mission has room right now for anyone who needs it - and the CRM kicks people out for any reason, and does not allow them to stay past 30 days anyway unless joining their cult-like BTL program for 9 months, which doesn't allow you to work) - we would get to the heart of this problem, and reduce the panhandling or 'hustling' as those involved call it - it occurs because there just is a dearth of employment opportunities even for those who go out at 5 am every morning to temp agencies, and I say this as a new resident of the city who does exactly that.

I would argue this is a growing problem due to the lack of city care for the poor and refusal to confront the growing unemployment crisis - we are so focused on building huge buildings and architectural wonders that we're neglecting the need for basic jobs and care for the poor.

I have nothing against stricter punishments for prostitution (I particularly think that as with drugs, we should seek most to punish those running the operations) but I am going to emphasize that this is not the underlying issue beneath, merely a symptom of the sickness.

Do the girls compete on their prices or is price fixing afoot? This is strictly an academic question? :-)

The price always seems to match the going rate for drugs. You can buy a rock for $20 so that is why Robinson is a $20 street.

This seems to me akin to the subject Alphie Kohn discusses in his excellent work, "Punished by Rewards". Kohn points out that teachers, employers, and parents frequently discipline with both punishments/threats and rewards/bribes. One of the key points Kohn makes while pointing out rewards are as destructive as punishments since both are used to manipulate (that what's wrong is not the reward itself but saying "do this and get that", the process of manipulating), is that both rewards and punishments seek to manipulate a person into performing a certain action, but never confront the original problem.

In other words, whether using punishments or rewards - in this case, probably stricter punishments on prostitution - using either avoids the underlying problem. What is the underlying problem at the root of prostitution? A lack of employment opportunities. If we were to fix employment in the city, as well as the lack of shelter options (no place but the City Rescue Mission has room right now for anyone who needs it - and the CRM kicks people out for any reason, and does not allow them to stay past 30 days anyway unless joining their cult-like BTL program for 9 months, which doesn't allow you to work) - we would get to the heart of this problem, and reduce the panhandling or 'hustling' as those involved call it - it occurs because there just is a dearth of employment opportunities even for those who go out at 5 am every morning to temp agencies, and I say this as a new resident of the city who does exactly that.

I would argue this is a growing problem due to the lack of city care for the poor and refusal to confront the growing unemployment crisis - we are so focused on building huge buildings and architectural wonders that we're neglecting the need for basic jobs and care for the poor.

I have nothing against stricter punishments for prostitution (I particularly think that as with drugs, we should seek most to punish those running the operations) but I am going to emphasize that this is not the underlying issue beneath, merely a symptom of the sickness.

I certainly appreciate anyone taking the time to actually try and address the issue of prostitution. I only concern myself with public, forced and organized prostitution. My 15+ years deeply involved has taught me that employment options and shelter have very little to do with positively impacting most street level prostitution. The most immediate need is drug rehabilitation. Once they've addressed the persistent urge and routine of getting high, they then desperately need help dealing with the psychological issues of often lifelong sexual, mental and physical abuse. Beyond that you have issues with lack of education and social skills. Not to mention issues of STD's and serious ailments from longterm drug use and homelessness.

Keep in mind, the average age a woman enters street prostitution is in their teens. The older the prostitute, often means the longer the addiction and abuse.

I agree, incarceration is not the answer. But the sad reality is that police and prosecutors are not in the rehabilitation business. Prosecution is often justified because the general public deserves to have the problem addressed and until a prostitute is ready to be rehabilitated she continues to be a criminal and often a blight on society.

I have literally spent hundreds of hours (with the help of others) trying to get faith based organizations to pool their money to address this issue with a safe house and a live-in rehabilitation option. Despite the face churches put on, many would rather spend hundreds of thousands on huge crosses and Easter shows than prostitution. There are some churches with very well intentioned programs, but virtually none address this specific group.

I'm waiting for a price reduction

Maybe too many girls in that neighborhood are giving away sex for free. A lot of girls can't restrain themselves when they find some guy to just be gorgeous for days. Sorry, if that doesn't include you.

FYI - If you happen to catch CNBC's new series "Crime Inc." you will see lots of footage I shot in OKC and Tulsa for their episode "Crime Inc.: Human Trafficking." The series began airing in May and re-runs regularly.

Just found this link to it... http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xj2szx_2011-human-trafficking-documentary_shortfilms

made me think of this thread

http://thecnnfreedomproject.blogs.cnn.com/2011/08/09/pimps-feed-on-twisting-californian-dream/

FYI - The largest prostitution ring in Oklahoma has just been broken up. The ring was a merger between the Mario Diaz 'family' and the Germaine Coulter 'family.' It is estimated they were making as much as $240,000 in a single month. The ring leader, Germain coulter, is in a Texas prison and his monthly expenses here in Oklahoma are $18,000. Even from prison he has the ring controlled enough that he meets those expenses and still cleared at least another $25,000 per month. Until his arrest the ring's primary operations were led from a million dollar estate in north Edmond. The FBI questioned me about this ring over 2 years ago. I'm glad to see it finally being broken up.

http://www.news9.com/story/15293057/okc-police-make-arrests-investigate-interstate-prostitution-ring

http://www.okcfox.com/newsroom/top_stories/videos/kokh_vid_3857.shtml

http://www.kfor.com/news/local/kfor-leads-in-prostitution-ring-point-to-county-office-20110818,0,1063245.story

Today the OKC Council considers changes to the Nuisance Ordinance that will allow police to impound vehicles used in the facilitation of prostitution - hooker's cars, pimp's cars, John's cars and 3rd parties that transport prostitutes to and from places of prostitution.

http://freepdfhosting.com/eaa0e9b9cc.pdf (.pdf of proposed changes)

I am of mixed opinion regarding this ordinance. On the down side, I do not see how this promotes helping the prostitute. If she has already reduced herself to prostitution, taking her car away is not going to better her situation in any way, and therefore will probably just increase the odds she continues to prostitute. But, I guess the odds she was going to stop were not to great to begin with. It also could place unnecessary hardship on the family members of the Johns if this is their only car.

Thoughts?