Lincoln County just turned down a new jail proposal.

You could be talking about Cleveland County. Its location makes very little sense. It's located just barely within the City of Norman. Jails need to be centerally located because they service the entire county. Locating far from downtown now might save land acquisition costs, but those will be made up over time in transportation costs.

It was Creek County. Sapulpa is the county seat, but its tucked into a corner and the other towns in the county are not convenient. Next time I see them, I'll ask about the transportation costs. It wasn't terribly far from downtown though. Sapulpa isn't really that large. But the old jail was immediately south of courthouse.

I helped with a haunted house in the old county jail once after it closed and it was hard to imagine how they could run a jail in such a small facility.

You could be talking about Cleveland County. Its location makes very little sense. It's located just barely within the City of Norman. Jails need to be centerally located because they service the entire county. Locating far from downtown now might save land acquisition costs, but those will be made up over time in transportation costs.

I get what you are saying about centrally located. In Clevland county you also have Moore due North, but in Cleveland County. Population wise I would not be surprised if it is centrally located.

This building is a tragedy waiting to happen. I am sure that is not the only cell to have made their own grill. I can't imagine that facility is adequately prepared to deal with an out-of-control fire or major structural failure. It seems to be a ticking time bomb.

Article from FPOKC summarizing the town hall regarding the future of the county jail facility. It’s good to see a new jail is at least being brought up:

https://freepressokc.com/pain-anger-dominate-public-listening-session-on-oklahoma-county-jail/

Jesus

https://kfor.com/news/inmate-death-under-investigation-at-oklahoma-county-jail-mother-of-nearby-inmate-says-he-was-begging-for-help-for-days-before-death/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR0nxXUItCU8ZfnafPXHD9-rvNv4TNT3n8X_t_7IrXrFRQPSkri5CpGInW8

Jesus

https://kfor.com/news/inmate-death-under-investigation-at-oklahoma-county-jail-mother-of-nearby-inmate-says-he-was-begging-for-help-for-days-before-death/?utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_medium=referral&fbclid=IwAR0nxXUItCU8ZfnafPXHD9-rvNv4TNT3n8X_t_7IrXrFRQPSkri5CpGInW8

This has to be one of the worst jails in the state. Poorly designed, poorly maintained, with bed bugs, and a callous staff. The jail and the Grady jail are just bad.

That was awful to read. Someone should be held accountable.

750,000 USD going to installing a finger print system for the jail. Not even a hint or talk about building a new one.

https://www.koco.com/article/oklahoma-county-jail-trust-approves-spending/37669702

Even if they announced tonight that they would start building a new jail tomorrow, there would be millions spent on the old jail before they were ready to move into the new one, however unfortunate.

The problem is they aren’t discussing it. I think the feds should just come in, build a new jail, and put the county on the hook since they are so incompetent. Counties seem to be the most dysfunctional part of the government sometimes.

The problem is they aren’t discussing it. I think the feds should just come in, build a new jail, and put the county on the hook since they are so incompetent. Counties seem to be the most dysfunctional part of the government sometimes.

Honest question, what will prevent a new jail from becoming what the old one has become if the people in charge remain the same? Calvey seems dead set on building a new jail, but it seems it will still be wildly mismanaged if there aren't some other big changes made to administration of the jail.

The jail was built 30 years ago, when inmate population was low. But now with the population growth in OKC and surrounding areas, the inmate population has since tripled.

Moreover, they built the jail in area where there was no room for expansion.

Honest question, what will prevent a new jail from becoming what the old one has become if the people in charge remain the same? Calvey seems dead set on building a new jail, but it seems it will still be wildly mismanaged if there aren't some other big changes made to administration of the jail.

The old jail is architecturally ridiculous, built and designed by a company that had no experience building jails. For instance - no food slots in the door so they have to be opened to feed an inmate, mental health workers have to examine inmates outside their cells, there's no dedicated mental health pod, it has dropped ceilings that inmates use to fashion weapons from, concrete columns that obstruct visibility, locks can be jammed open with a piece of paper or a spork, ad nauseum. So a completely new building, built by a company that knows how to build (and has built) jails would be a big start. Then they need to work on the administration.

on the bright side, it not being built like a jail should mean it would be easier to convert to an alternate use :-\

The old jail is architecturally ridiculous, built and designed by a company that had no experience building jails. For instance - no food slots in the door so they have to be opened to feed an inmate, mental health workers have to examine inmates outside their cells, there's no dedicated mental health pod, it has dropped ceilings that inmates use to fashion weapons from, concrete columns that obstruct visibility, locks can be jammed open with a piece of paper or a spork, ad nauseum. So a completely new building, built by a company that knows how to build (and has built) jails would be a big start. Then they need to work on the administration.

Gotcha. I didn't realize all of that. I remember the glass blocks being pushed out rather easy when it first opened and inmates leaving at will (exaggeration), but didn't know the extent of the issues.

Gotcha. I didn't realize all of that. I remember the glass blocks being pushed out rather easy when it first opened and inmates leaving at will (exaggeration), but didn't know the extent of the issues.

I think Travellers is actually being sparing in the problems. The plumbing has always been a disaster (sewage leaks from floor to floor, etc.), and all kinds of systems disasters. It wasn't even designed to be a good working building for ANY purpose. But it was somehow approved all along the design and build way by the county officials. Lot's of incompetence at best and corruption at worst.

In addition, it is my understanding that because it is a multi-level facility each level has to basically operate as a stand-alone jail. My assumption would be with higher staffing requirements per inmate, fewer funds allocated to the jail are available to provide basic services to the inmates.

Yeah, the stuff I listed was just the tip of the jailberg, and the multi-level aspect is just complete idiocy, it should never have been built the way it was designed and it needs to be completely demolished.

I also hope they keep the jail downtown somewhere if/when they build a new one. The closer to the existing services the better.

I remember reading quite some time ago that three of the four principals of the design/build firm that did the jail
were not licensed architects or licensed in any related discipline. The manager of the County jail project was not the licensed guy. This turned out to be a big deal and they left a trail of seriously substandard work behind them. They apparently designed and oversaw construction of several schools in Moore that were found to be structurally deficient (no bond beams in big CMU walls) in the 2013 tornado.

Unless it’s a typo the county is getting 152 million dollars from the cares act and Lowe is outright saying we need a new jail. This money would be great to put to a new jail if it can be used for that.

I also hope they keep the jail downtown somewhere if/when they build a new one. The closer to the existing services the better.

I believe they will build this in eastern Oklahoma county if I remember correctly. That’s what previous discussions were. There’s no reason for it to be downtown. It would make costs much higher to acquire land can build less high rise if it isn’t downtown which would be cheaper and easier to maintain staffing fir

There are tons of reasons to keep it downtown.

1. Less resources spent transferring prisoners to and from court.

2. Being able to release detainees onto the street with nearby services available as opposed to requiring shuttles to transport them back to downtown where they’d be dropped off

3. It’s easier for those who have loved ones to have a facility near existing services like bail bonds and transit stops.

There is reasonable land around downtown in the SW part or land like at Sheridan and Indiana that could be potential sites. Putting it out in the sticks is just absurd.

The conversations of putting it around Choctaw stemmed from the previous sheriff so hopefully those talks are dead.

There are tons of reasons to keep it downtown.

1. Less resources spent transferring prisoners to and from court.

2. Being able to release detainees onto the street with nearby services available as opposed to requiring shuttles to transport them back to downtown where they’d be dropped off

3. It’s easier for those who have loved ones to have a facility near existing services like bail bonds and transit stops.

There is reasonable land around downtown in the SW part or land like at Sheridan and Indiana that could be potential sites. Putting it out in the sticks is just absurd.

The conversations of putting it around Choctaw stemmed from the previous sheriff so hopefully those talks are dead.

the cost is so much less putting it not in down town .. that makes up for it ...

this should be next to one of the land fills ..

the cost is so much less putting it not in down town .. that makes up for it ...

this should be next to one of the land fills ..
It’s more about efficiency of resources, not just land costs. If operational costs for all involved expand it will quickly dwarf land costs.

It’s more about efficiency of resources, not just land costs. If operational costs for all involved expand it will quickly dwarf land costs.

does that happen in Cleveland county??

does that happen in Cleveland county??

Maybe, but what does that have to do with OKC? Their dynamic, volume, etc. is different. But concepts of efficiency is the same.

Maybe, but what does that have to do with OKC? Their dynamic, volume, etc. is different. But concepts of efficiency is the same.

cost .. that jail cost 26 mil ..... they are talking about 500mil + for a new OK county jail .... and you still will have transportation costs .. .25-.5 miles .... or 7 miles (if it was built next to the crossroads land fill .. )

outside of downtown is the best option

the cost is so much less putting it not in down town .. that makes up for it ...

this should be next to one of the land fills ..
I’m not going to put any time responding to such an ignorant comment. I hope county leaders are smarter than this.

I’m not going to put any time responding to such an ignorant comment. I hope county leaders are smarter than this.
i think you can disagree in a more constructive way.

I don’t think his comment was stupid. I think it’s a good thought as in it can be built on land that would most likely not be attractive for anything else to be built. I don’t read that statement as calling the jail trash or anything about the people in jail. I think it’s just saying build it on land that is less desirable for other development and also would not hinder other development in the area of taking place.

There are tons of reasons to keep it downtown.

1. Less resources spent transferring prisoners to and from court.

2. Being able to release detainees onto the street with nearby services available as opposed to requiring shuttles to transport them back to downtown where they’d be dropped off

3. It’s easier for those who have loved ones to have a facility near existing services like bail bonds and transit stops.

There is reasonable land around downtown in the SW part or land like at Sheridan and Indiana that could be potential sites. Putting it out in the sticks is just absurd.

The conversations of putting it around Choctaw stemmed from the previous sheriff so hopefully those talks are dead.

In addition, transporting prisoners to Eastern Oklahoma County is a huge security concern. Also, defense attorneys need convenient access to prisoners. The public defender especially.

In addition, transporting prisoners to Eastern Oklahoma County is a huge security concern. Also, defense attorneys need convenient access to prisoners. The public defender especially.

i know the volume of prisoners in Cleveland county is not as big .... but does it create a burden in that county??

Commissioners appoint Chad Alexander to jail trust (https://nondoc.com/2021/10/04/commissioners-appoint-chad-alexander-jail-trust/)

Not sure if this guy is qualified for the jail trust...

"The host of radio station KOKC‘s 4 to 6 p.m. time slot on 1520 AM and 95.3 FM, Alexander is registered to lobby the Oklahoma Legislature and Gov. Kevin Stitt’s office for the Institute for Responsible Alcohol Policy, an industry association representing wine and spirit wholesalers who are also licensed beer distributors. The organization’s primary members are Republic National Distributing Company and Southern Glazers.

Alexander’s wife, Stephanie Alexander, is his designated filing agent with the Oklahoma Ethics Commission. Stephanie Alexander served as battleground states director for former President Donald Trump’s 2016 campaign and as chief of staff for Trump’s 2020 re-election effort.

Chad Alexander also has a background in campaign politics, serving former Congressman J.C. Watts’ campaign manager prior to serving as chairman of the Oklahoma Republican Party.

Prior to his May 2014 arrest for drug possession, Alexander had several other lobbying and political consulting clients, including the University of Oklahoma and Newt Gingrich’s 2012 presidential campaign. At the time of his arrest, Alexander allegedly showed an Oklahoma City police officer a badge and said he was an assistant district attorney for Cleveland County, which was not true. Alexander was ultimately sentenced to five years probation following treatment for substance dependency.

Alexander holds an undergraduate degree in political science from the University of Central Oklahoma. He graduated Pi Sigma Alpha as a member of the Political Science Honor Society. From December 2014 until June 2020, he served on the board of directors for the OKC Metro Alliance , a work recovery program for drug and alcohol abuse. He also has served on the board of directors for the Oklahoma Institute for Child Advocacy, according to a press release provided by the jail trust."

The county is FINALLY going to study building a new jail facility.

https://freepressokc.com/new-oklahoma-county-jail-facility-option-chosen-for-further-study/

The county is FINALLY going to study building a new jail facility.

https://freepressokc.com/new-oklahoma-county-jail-facility-option-chosen-for-further-study/

this is the best part of that "plan"

Funding
The central question about building a new Jail facility is how to fund such a project.

The first suggestion for funding the new Jail is to use all $154 million of American Recovery Plan Act (ARPA) relief funds.

Additional money would be found using general obligation limited tax bonds (GOLT) to the tune of $95 million, revenue anticipation bonds in the amount of $48 million, and lease-purchase revenue bonds at $95 million.


a new tax or raised taxes .. have very little chance of passing for this project ... so i am glad they are finding a solution ..


hopefully they build the new jail .. near one of the land fills ... down by 240, or the one on I40 west or NE (36th and air depot)

News 9 article on the issue:

https://www.news9.com/story/61720e8ca15def10dedd4139/oklahoma-co-jail-not-fixable-facility-says-as-criminal-justice-panel-pursues-new-detention-center-

^^^ Argh, everybody knew all this *years* ago, can't believe it's still ongoing! Get the DOJ (or someone else) in here to manage it because we're obviously completely incapable of doing it ourselves, build a new one ASAP, tear the old one down, just freaking do it...

^^^ agreed but at least the county is now acknowledging it. Baby steps

Federally funded new Oklahoma County Jail? https://koco.com/article/oklahoma-county-inches-closer-to-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-to-build-new-jail-with-federal-funds/38306714

Federally funded new Oklahoma County Jail? https://koco.com/article/oklahoma-county-inches-closer-to-once-in-a-lifetime-opportunity-to-build-new-jail-with-federal-funds/38306714

Yes, move the jail out of downtown and turn the existing one into a hotel or something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/APvJRo7.jpg

I personally hope to see the old jail demolished. Bring in the demolition charges and level that old decrepit POS!

I personally hope to see the old jail demolished. Bring in the demolition charges and level that old decrepit POS!

As soon as possible.

Yes, move the jail out of downtown and turn the existing one into a hotel or something like this:

https://i.imgur.com/APvJRo7.jpg

The Liberty Hotel in Boston is an old jail and it's awesome! It's a cooler, older building but I still think something cool could be done with this one. Maybe they could even incorporate the old jail

^^^

It's not the most beautiful building in town, but it's definitely unique. I'd rather see it converted to a hotel or an apartment than demolished and replaced with boring buildings such as the new police and court buildings nearby.

^^^

It's not the most beautiful building in town, but it's definitely unique. I'd rather see it converted to a hotel or an apartment than demolished and replaced with boring buildings such as the new police and court buildings nearby.

I'm sorry about the double post, I haven't figured out how to delete it yet.

I think it is seen by the public as an evil, monolithic tower that is out of place. It has been attacked from the moment is opened as a poorly designed and constructed failure. KFOR practically built their newsroom off of calling it “the money pit” in weekly stories the first several years it was open. Locals will always “see and feel” the mold, sewage and disease emanating from every surface and opening.

I think it is seen by the public as an evil, monolithic tower that is out of place. It has been attacked from the moment is opened as a poorly designed and constructed failure. KFOR practically built their newsroom off of calling it “the money pit” in weekly stories the first several years it was open. Locals will always “see and feel” the mold, sewage and disease emanating from every surface and opening.

:yeahthat: Tear it down, and burn 100 lbs of sage on the site for a week...

I think it is seen by the public as an evil, monolithic tower that is out of place. It has been attacked from the moment is opened as a poorly designed and constructed failure. KFOR practically built their newsroom off of calling it “the money pit” in weekly stories the first several years it was open. Locals will always “see and feel” the mold, sewage and disease emanating from every surface and opening.

That’s fine! It will cater to out of towners! Lol. Also few people here under the age of 30-35, especially those who moved here from elsewhere, hold that opinion of it. Most of us weren’t old enough to remember everything that went down in the early years or at least weren’t paying attending. I’m 34 and the bombing as well as kids shows and sporting events at the myriad pretty much are my only memories of downtown from that time. I just don’t think it has the stigma to most of the younger residents here that y’all think it does.

I also have to wonder about the stigma and if it really is that significant. For years I didn't even know the building was the county jail, I am fairly sure that participating in this forum is what taught me about it.

build a new jail (in downtown, so a new highrise) and turn this into an office building for the county or city. Redevelop the entire site into a western downtown district.

Definitely should NOT be torn down.

This building needs to be demolished once a new jail is built.

Jail trust voted to build a new jail today, goes to county commissioners for a vote, but we know how this will go.

https://nondoc.com/2021/11/29/new-jail-recommendations-head-to-oklahoma-county-commissioners/

$297M

WOW

297 million actually isn’t that bad IMO

1/3rd of the entire MAPS4 budget seems like a lot to me. That's a lot of projects...

If this happens, it will drastically change west downtown.

There has been a huge amount of investment all around that property and you know it would really take off once that eyesore and all the bail bondsman moved elsewhere.

I lived right up the street on Shartel for a year and that whole area was really a drag on what would otherwise be prime real estate.

If this happens, it will drastically change west downtown.

There has been a huge amount of investment all around that property and you know it would really take off once that eyesore and all the bail bondsman moved elsewhere.

I lived right up the street on Shartel for a year and that whole area was really a drag on what would otherwise be prime real estate.

yep moving this out of the downtown core would be a massive win ..

yep moving this out of the downtown core would be a massive win ..

I can't imagine any part of OKC wanting the jail relocated to their part of town. It needs to be in close proximity to the courthouse.

I can't imagine any part of OKC wanting the jail relocated to their part of town. It needs to be in close proximity to the courthouse.

it doesn't Cleveland county jail isn't this needs to be on property that is lesser value like next to one of our many landfills ..