I wonder what those in Deer Creek will be thinking when it comes to law enforcement protection. For several years Whetsel made sure those in DC were covered, now I just don’t see how the SO can truly sustain adequate field operations to truly patrol areas.

Got to be some residents thinking thst annexing into Edmond (keeping their existing fire dept, schools, and water service) may be the better long term move...
I'm not sure if Edmond would be willing to take that on. They can barely fund high priority projects needed to alleviate congestion, expand the trails, and build desired downtown projects like the Performing Arts Center. Traffic is increasing out there and road widenings are needed soon, and a new police substation would be a must.

Those who bought homes in the Deer Creek area placed a higher value on schools than public safety. Neither the City of OKC nor Edmond is going to provide police protection without a revenue commitment. Deer Creek isn't incorporated, so that discussion isn't possible.

None of our metro area cities should take on that kind of maintenance for people who specifically and knowingly decided to live outside of them. They made that bed themselves and could have chosen differently.

None of our metro area cities should take on that kind of maintenance for people who specifically and knowingly decided to live outside of them. They made that bed themselves and could have chosen differently.
That's your opinion and many cities think differently. This is part of the metro area and there is no reason modern, city like infrastructure can't be built here. Before long this area will hardly be considered the fringes of the metro. Areas outside of Cashion, Okarche, Shawnee, Purcell are slowly but surely becoming the fringes of the city. The previous ones like Jones and El Reno and Guthrie will be swallowing up by sprawl and to me that is an exciting prospect to the dismay of those here like no1club and GoGators or pretty much a large majority of this forum I am guessing.

Clark County(NV) has built its own freeways. Many other counties can build adequate infrastructure. I am not suggesting Edmond takes this area on, but they have their own problems and went from a mayor who supported growth in Edmond to almost the complete opposite. Like him or not he is the status quo of endless strip malls and cookie cutter development, which I appreciate for what it is worth but would like more unique and more dense developments.

Unfortunately as shown Oklahoma no longer can even plan in the future for new freeways and extensions of existing ones(SW EXT) let alone thinking down the line with ROW and light-rail lines.

This discussion is a little off-topic with regard to the jail, but very interesting with regard to urban planning, sprawl, providing services, etc.

For "modern, city like infrastructure" to be built in an unincorporated area, that area would have to be incorporated (think Bethany, Village, Warr Acres, Nichols Hills, etc.) in order to contract and pay for streets & utilities. Not just the capital cost, but the perpetual obligation for maintenance. A governmental taxing authority would be necessary to guarantee a revenue source through water bills, property taxes, sales taxes, etc. Otherwise, you'd be asking OKC or Edmond to annex that area, which won't happen. We learned our lesson in the mid-20th century with Stanley Draper's unrestrained annexation which gave us 600+ square miles which our population base can't adequately fund as it is.

They wanted to live in the country. That means rough roads, well water, septic systems, rural electricity and the like.

This discussion is a little off-topic with regard to the jail, but very interesting with regard to urban planning, sprawl, providing services, etc.

For "modern, city like infrastructure" to be built in an unincorporated area, that area would have to be incorporated (think Bethany, Village, Warr Acres, Nichols Hills, etc.) in order to contract and pay for streets & utilities. Not just the capital cost, but the perpetual obligation for maintenance. A governmental taxing authority would be necessary to guarantee a revenue source through water bills, property taxes, sales taxes, etc. Otherwise, you'd be asking OKC or Edmond to annex that area, which won't happen. We learned our lesson in the mid-20th century with Stanley Draper's unrestrained annexation which gave us 600+ square miles which our population base can't adequately fund as it is.

They wanted to live in the country. That means rough roads, well water, septic systems, rural electricity and the like.
This is not correct.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1137456,-115.2428071,440m/data=!3m1!1e3

That is unincorporated and still has infrastructure better than many parts of OKC proper and many other cities.

Maps of unincorporated Clark County: http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/CCComplaintsubmission/CCcompMap.aspx

I believe such examples exists in counties around DFW and I know Maricopa(AZ) and many counties in SoCal are the same. How they get that done? I don't know. My knowledge of urban planning doesn't go this far... yet. Now that I think about it, it is likely something I'll research over the weekend.

Saying "they wanted to live in country" might be true and some wanted to live in an area with good schools, newer homes, and a better part of the metro overall. Those that want the country life ought to be ready and willing to move further out if they wish the constantly live on the fringe of the metro. That is part of the compromise one should make, especially in America(increasingly other countries where suburban sprawl is becoming prominent even in Europe), knowing that the benefits of country living and being close to a large metro is the inevitable fact the farmland around your tract housing will be turned into more tract housing and strip malls.

https://oklahoman.com/article/5640860/current-jail-employees-air-grievances-at-oklahoma-county-jail-trust-meeting

This is not correct.

https://www.google.com/maps/@36.1137456,-115.2428071,440m/data=!3m1!1e3

That is unincorporated and still has infrastructure better than many parts of OKC proper and many other cities.

Maps of unincorporated Clark County: http://dsnet.co.clark.nv.us/CCComplaintsubmission/CCcompMap.aspx

I believe such examples exists in counties around DFW and I know Maricopa(AZ) and many counties in SoCal are the same. How they get that done? I don't know. My knowledge of urban planning doesn't go this far... yet. Now that I think about it, it is likely something I'll research over the weekend.

Saying "they wanted to live in country" might be true and some wanted to live in an area with good schools, newer homes, and a better part of the metro overall. Those that want the country life ought to be ready and willing to move further out if they wish the constantly live on the fringe of the metro. That is part of the compromise one should make, especially in America(increasingly other countries where suburban sprawl is becoming prominent even in Europe), knowing that the benefits of country living and being close to a large metro is the inevitable fact the farmland around your tract housing will be turned into more tract housing and strip malls.

No, I AM correct. If you want infrastructure like a city, you need a city to provide them. You can find outliers around the country where quality is good, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule. We're talking Oklahoma County here, and it doesn't have the money to provide those services, and adjacent cities (OKC, Edmond) aren't going to provide them.

No, I AM correct. If you want infrastructure like a city, you need a city to provide them. You can find outliers around the country where quality is good, but those are the exceptions that prove the rule. We're talking Oklahoma County here, and it doesn't have the money to provide those services, and adjacent cities (OKC, Edmond) aren't going to provide them.
I just gave examples that disprove your theory. Examples of unincorporated areas right next to cities that are developed and booming need to be taken into account. These are only examples I know of. I also believe Miami and Orlando have areas like that as well. Just because Oklahoma County doesn't have money in no way means it can't turn that around. Oklahoma needs higher taxes and more revenue. Oklahoma needs to get off the cheap train.

Exceptions don't disprove a theory any more than a couple of unseasonably cool days in August disproves the theory that it's hot during the summer.

Oklahoma Citians certainly don't like paying to extend services to outlying areas of our 620+ square mile city. That's not being cheap - that's being realistic. As I posted earlier, our annexation binge in the mid-20th century was a major mistake because we acquired land we didn't need, and are now paying to provide services with money we don't have.

Exceptions don't disprove a theory any more than a couple of unseasonably cool days in August disproves the theory that it's hot during the summer.

I'm not so sure it is an exception though. I don't know enough to know whether this is a rule or exception, but from my experience, there are many unincorporated areas that have expansive infrastructure pieces just like you would see in major cities. Six lane roads and such. Now Clark County building its own freeways is certainly an exception and I'll admit that. OK County should do the same. There are ways to get it done and excuses why it can't be done. I would pick the former.

Oklahoma Citians certainly don't like paying to extend services to outlying areas of our 620+ square mile city. That's not being cheap - that's being realistic. As I posted earlier, our annexation binge in the mid-20th century was a major mistake because we acquired land we didn't need, and are now paying to provide services with money we don't have.
They sure didn't mind expanding every road in NW OKC.

My opinion: Oklahoma is a state that is cheap. I am generalizing that and I'll readily admit it is nothing more than my opinion.

Why would Edmond not want to annex Deer Creek? I thought sprawl was good and made cities money? Why wouldn't Deer Creek make Edmond more money? Wouldn't annexing Deer Creek create a ton of new revenue and subsidize the downtown Edmond projects?

Unless...:p

Why would Edmond not want to annex Deer Creek? I thought sprawl was good and made cities money? Why wouldn't Deer Creek make Edmond more money? Wouldn't annexing Deer Creek create a ton of new revenue and subsidize the downtown Edmond projects?

Unless...:p

You can argue your personal opinions all you want. Making a bunch of non-statements doesn't help and as like a vast majority of your comments, the endless sarcasm leaves a lot out of the equation.

What am i leaving out? Is sprawl revenue positive or revenue negative? if it is good why shouldn't Edmond annex it and receive all of that Deer Creek revenue?

Exceptions don't disprove a theory any more than a couple of unseasonably cool days in August disproves the theory that it's hot during the summer.

Oklahoma Citians certainly don't like paying to extend services to outlying areas of our 620+ square mile city. That's not being cheap - that's being realistic. As I posted earlier, our annexation binge in the mid-20th century was a major mistake because we acquired land we didn't need, and are now paying to provide services with money we don't have.

If we didn’t grab the land then Paycom maybe moves elsewhere like Edmond. HQ and over 3,000 jobs are lots of taxes. And all the new houses out there. And other businesses bringing in taxes. Workers taxes buying stuff. Big ripple. I would bet the cheap cost of land when purchased has paid off big time. How many other jobs does 3,000 workers bring? It used to be around 2-1 ratio for bigger companies (2 new jobs for 1 job). So if true then Paycom ripples to 9,000 taxpayers. Don’t quote me on 2-1 but I think that was ripple effect jobs.

What am i leaving out? Is sprawl revenue positive or revenue negative? if it is good why shouldn't Edmond annex it and receive all of that Deer Creek revenue?
I'm not going to debate this with you here. I have already made points against that and if you wish to rehash it it in the future you will have a chance. Wait until I inevitably bring it up in a more relevant thread. Not like the conversation that was going on was anymore relevant. I only responded to your post to point out you seem to use sarcasm in a majority of your posts skipping over points you are unable to address. I personally find it annoying but whatever. To each their own.

To rehash: my overall point was respond to cloudmedias post which I interpreted as saying expansive infrastructure is non existent in incorporated areas. Though there are many unincorporated areas where this isn't the case and I understand that, given the context of this particular area and its proximity to a major metro area that is growing like crazy, I know of several examples where there are 4-6 lane roads, sidewalks, 'dense' development(by suburban standards), and in one case a freeway built by the county itself. The freeway aspect is an exception and one I think should be emulated by OK County. Agree or disagree it makes no difference as the chances of that happening are slim to none and for reasons I suspect other than a lack of money. Then the response was "well those are rare cases" but I don't believe this to be true. Keeping this in context, I bet there are many more examples than I gave.

One thing you conveniently forget is the astronomical costs of providing infrastructure in dense areas which is eclipsing a billion a mile for rail in several different instances. Simply viewing this as x amount of people spending x amount of tax dollars as a result to their place of living is extremely disingenuous and not telling of the whole story. Much like how your induced demand arguments leave many variables out and uses cherry picked data. Anyways I believe I have created a thread about induced demand on this site. Otherwise I'll respond on another thread at a later date. I'm already way off topic.

If we didn’t grab the land then Paycom maybe moves elsewhere like Edmond. HQ and over 3,000 jobs are lots of taxes. And all the new houses out there. And other businesses bringing in taxes. Workers taxes buying stuff. Big ripple. I would bet the cheap cost of land when purchased has paid off big time. How many other jobs does 3,000 workers bring? It used to be around 2-1 ratio for bigger companies (2 new jobs for 1 job). So if true then Paycom ripples to 9,000 taxpayers. Don’t quote me on 2-1 but I think that was ripple effect jobs.

This is about the cost of bringing public services to residents, not employers.

If we didn’t grab the land then Paycom maybe moves elsewhere like Edmond. HQ and over 3,000 jobs are lots of taxes. And all the new houses out there. And other businesses bringing in taxes. Workers taxes buying stuff. Big ripple. I would bet the cheap cost of land when purchased has paid off big time. How many other jobs does 3,000 workers bring? It used to be around 2-1 ratio for bigger companies (2 new jobs for 1 job). So if true then Paycom ripples to 9,000 taxpayers. Don’t quote me on 2-1 but I think that was ripple effect jobs.

You're assuming Edmond would grab that area.. Big assumption.

Instead - I'd argue that the land being Oklahoma City made it possible if not likely that Paycomm located there. I doubt they would have located in unincorporated Oklahoma or Canadian county and i don't buy that they would have located in Edmond (they have lots of land already, but no HQ!! - see Heartland/Global Payment Systems).

If OKC weren't as large, Paycomm would likely still want to locate in OKC, just would be closer in. Same with other OKC companies.

Surprised this hasn’t been posted here yet but the new sheriff per reports seems to want to hand off the jail:


Oklahoma County Sheriff P.D. Taylor is giving the newly formed Jail Trust less than ten weeks to prepare to take over administration of the largest county jail in Oklahoma.

But the county’s youngest trust is still forming with funding approved by county commissioners just last week.

“We don’t want to do this wrong,” Jail Trust Chair Tricia Everest responded later in the day

- https://freepressokc.com/sheriff-take-the-jail-jail-trust-chair-we-dont-want-to-do-this-wrong/

If 100 employees of County Sheriff have quit or retired since August, who exactly is staffing the jail?

https://kfor.com/2019/11/13/citizens-have-chance-to-weigh-in-on-plans-for-oklahoma-county-jail/

This is going to be an epic level disaster. I see this getting much worse before it ever gets "better". Have to love seeing an elected law enforcement officer basically saying "I am taking my toys and going home, how dare you hold me accountable."

This is the best possible option. A local panel of talented people has been assembled instead of a group appointed by a federal judge. Federal control & oversight is the direction it was headed. P.D. Taylor is the latest of several sheriffs who were unable/unwilling to enact change, and he is undermining the necessary change brought by this panel. It speaks volumes that he almost simultaneously announced his 12/31/2019 final day and his reelection bid.

I admire those on the Oklahoma County Criminal Justice Authority - a/k/a the "Jail Trust" - for undertaking this unpaid, mostly thankless, necessary responsibility.

Good read about the update of the jail trust:

https://freepressokc.com/jail-trust-hires-jail-administrator-approves-contract-and-salary-details/

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/03/28/oklahoma-county-jail-trust-hostage-inmate/7037050002/

Another inmate, Curtis Montrell Williams, who had been held since April of 2019 on a pending felon in possession of a firearm, rape, and numerous other charges including multiple counts for having contraband in the jail and one assault on an officer, was killed following a hostage situation. DA Prater has gone on record saying the Jail Trust is incompetent and that it has never been so corrupt at the jail. 9 inmates have died since the trust took over.

And when protesters appeared outside the jail, they were met with deputies in full tactical gear and had beanbag guns pointed at them for peacefully protesting. I really don't understand the need to have a tactical response at the jail's entrance. Once inside the entrance, to get to any of the back offices, you'd have to have one of the nice folks behind the bullet proof glass and concrete buzz you through a highly secure door that itsn't going to open unless someone inside opens it.

The jail was dumped onto the trust's lap with virtually no effort by the sheriff to aid in the transition. The reigning law enforcement and DA were hopeful there would be failure so they can sell the public on their own brand of management, even thought it has failed spectacularly. From the outside, it looks like a big power play and it seems the police organizations hate to lose, no matter the cost. They had decades to clean it up and haven't been able to, but it doesn't seem like they want anyone else to if they can't be the boss. At least that is the way it looks. Please tell me how that impression is wrong.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/03/28/oklahoma-county-jail-trust-hostage-inmate/7037050002/

Another inmate, Curtis Montrell Williams, who had been held since April of 2019 on a pending felon in possession of a firearm, rape, and numerous other charges including multiple counts for having contraband in the jail and one assault on an officer, was killed following a hostage situation. DA Prater has gone on record saying the Jail Trust is incompetent and that it has never been so corrupt at the jail. 9 inmates have died since the trust took over.

And when protesters appeared outside the jail, they were met with deputies in full tactical gear and had beanbag guns pointed at them for peacefully protesting. I really don't understand the need to have a tactical response at the jail's entrance. Once inside the entrance, to get to any of the back offices, you'd have to have one of the nice folks behind the bullet proof glass and concrete buzz you through a highly secure door that itsn't going to open unless someone inside opens it.

Likely as a result of the "peaceful protests" led by BLM back in 2020 in OKC and major cities across the nation.

The jail needs a dedicated funding source for a new facility and ongoing operating funds to humanely operate the facility on an ongoing basis. At this point, you basically need enough money to pay everyone there a minimum of $25/hr to ensure you can attract decent candidates. Further, we probably need a (new) federal consent decree with an onsite monitor to ensure civil rights aren't being violated. I think it's easy to point the blame here, but in the end, the citizens of Oklahoma County and the leadership in charge of the jail need a whole new lesson on trust and accountability being a two way street.

As a citizen of Oklahoma City, I wish the city ran it's own jail facilities again to put accountability for our own back under the City Manager and the Council. But I realize that's no solution for the other residents of OK County.

The jail needs a dedicated funding source for a new facility and ongoing operating funds to humanely operate the facility on an ongoing basis. At this point, you basically need enough money to pay everyone there a minimum of $25/hr to ensure you can attract decent candidates. Further, we probably need a (new) federal consent decree with an onsite monitor to ensure civil rights aren't being violated. I think it's easy to point the blame here, but in the end, the citizens of Oklahoma County and the leadership in charge of the jail need a whole new lesson on trust and accountability being a two way street.

As a citizen of Oklahoma City, I wish the city ran it's own jail facilities again to put accountability for our own back under the City Manager and the Council. But I realize that's no solution for the other residents of OK County.

I agree. They need a safe, clean and humane place to detain those who need to be detained. Humane for the guards too. They need to be safe from attacks, and also make decent wages.

Likely as a result of the "peaceful protests" led by BLM back in 2020 in OKC and major cities across the nation.

On the worst day of our protests, a bail bonds and a not-for profit were burned and a few windows were broken. I doubt that the sherriff van would have been burned had the sherriff not had such a disproportionate response.

And at what they pay the detention officers, I would think they'd be much happier working for Hobby Lobby making better pay and benefits than walking floors solo where violent offenders can roam freely and take guards hostage.

As a citizen of Oklahoma City, I wish the city ran it's own jail facilities again to put accountability for our own back under the City Manager and the Council. But I realize that's no solution for the other residents of OK County.

The City could build a jail and charge other municipalities for its use. If only there was an effective unit of government which could manage certain affairs accross the entire county. We haven't seen anything like that around these parts lately.

The City could build a jail and charge other municipalities for its use. If only there was an effective unit of government which could manage certain affairs accross the entire county. We haven't seen anything like that around these parts lately.

To be honest, I would like to go a step further and legislate the county out of existence in the OKC and Tulsa metro areas. I firmly believe that for democracy to survive and thrive in the 21st century, citizens need to see a direct connection between their votes and government action. In large metro areas, the county layer of gov't just doesn't seem necessary. Passing the buck only benefits those who enjoy the status quo. But I also get that it's a more nuanced issue and change is difficult. With the structure we have now, the cynical side of me just thinks the county is waiting on the city to give them a boatload of cash to move/rebuild the jail.

Yeah... we need the county structure for infrastructure, law enforcement in unincorporated areas and for our courts.

Like others a city county government would be a lot more effective and accountable to the citizens. I don't have anything against the Sheriff, assessor, court clerk, but I think it's crazy that they are elected instead of hired like a city manager, or police chief of a city. There are other metro areas across the country that have combined both governments.

I am so sick of this whole thing. This city has made great strides, but 2/3 of the county leadership might as well represent Gotebo. Scary and corrupt. My blood pressure has risen dramatically about this story, the blatant theft of the CARES funds, the terrible Oklahoman article that doesn't even mention the perspective of a single incarcerated person, and the system that has promulgated this cesspool of failure and good ol' boy corruption for decades.

Also mad at John Echols for his fake principled stand against the incompetence, when he is an investor in private incarceration. I've always thought him a rare bright spot of Senate leadership, but now I know he is lining his pockets as a private imprisoner. This whole situation is Medieval and gross.

This state needs to change dramatically. Here's hoping it starts here.

Are we suggesting that the city and county merge/co-terminate like cities such as Philadelphia have done? Probably a little harder since OKC spills into so many counties...

Are we suggesting that the city and county merge/co-terminate like cities such as Philadelphia have done? Probably a little harder since OKC spills into so many counties...

currently it would not be legal to do in our state ...

but a combined OKC city county government would be a great thing

I realize it would be unconstitutional at present. We'd need an IP, but I think the state would have a conniption...

Also mad at John Echols for his fake principled stand against the incompetence, when he is an investor in private incarceration. I've always thought him a rare bright spot of Senate leadership, but now I know he is lining his pockets as a private imprisoner. This whole situation is Medieval and gross.

I believe I read that the medical firm he is part owner of has issued demands to the Trust and that if those demands are not met re prisoner care and safety, the contract will be terminated. I generally don't have much good to say about Senate Republicans, but John Echols is a good guy.

I believe I read that the medical firm he is part owner of has issued demands to the Trust and that if those demands are not met re prisoner care and safety, the contract will be terminated. I generally don't have much good to say about Senate Republicans, but John Echols is a good guy.

I agree he seems like a good guy. My point is he is making money off of private prison contracts, which I find odious.

Like others a city county government would be a lot more effective and accountable to the citizens. I don't have anything against the Sheriff, assessor, court clerk, but I think it's crazy that they are elected instead of hired like a city manager, or police chief of a city. There are other metro areas across the country that have combined both governments.

We elect ours here as well. But the BIG difference is we have only ONE County Executive (not 3) and a county council, they are held accountable the same way as the mayors and councils of Seattle and Tacoma are and voices from the people are heard. ...

I believe the county sheriffs/clerks etc have to be elected because they are sworn-in to the state/nation whereas the city chiefs are appointed under the govt of the city. The weird one is the State Police. ...

I believe Midtowner may have excellent legal insight on how this all works. .. :)

Also, Denver has combined city/county even though it spilled into Arapaho and Adams counties; Denver is just cut out with the balance left to those counties.

We elect ours here as well. But the BIG difference is we have only ONE County Executive (not 3) and a county council, they are held accountable the same way as the mayors and councils of Seattle and Tacoma are and voices from the people are heard. ...

I believe the county sheriffs/clerks etc have to be elected because they are sworn-in to the state/nation whereas the city chiefs are appointed under the govt of the city. The weird one is the State Police. ...

I believe Midtowner may have excellent legal insight on how this all works. .. :)

Yeah, it's kind of complicated. The only elected CITY officials are the mayor and council. Everyone else is hired according to their resume. The mayor does make some consequential committee appointments, but is more of a cheerleader than a person with acutal authority.

The County is run by the three elected Commissioners. The Court Clerk and the County Clerk are also elected officials. David Hooten and Rick Warren were the only Republicans I voted for in '20. We also elect our Sheriff They both do outstanding jobs. If I could change things up, I'd have more commissioners in larger counties. Those three guys have a lot of power and there's quite a history of corruption in this State with County Commissioners.

It all gets confusing because the City contracts with the County for the use of its jail. The City did at one time operate its own jail on the top 3 or so floors of the old Police Headquarters. They then moved to using the Jail on the top few floors of the County Courthouse, which is still used, but only for holding prisoners there for their day of court, and prisoner/attorney meetings. It's an interesting place. The furniture probably came with the building.

The State Police aren't interesting... you have the Highway Patrol and the OSBI and various other concerns like ABLE.

Some legislators are asking the justice department to intervene here with the recent tragedies. I say it’s about time.

https://freepressokc.com/okc-state-legislator-asks-u-s-justice-dept-to-intercede-in-ok-county-jail/

We're really going to have to be forced to pay up to build a new facility too. I'm not sure why its taken so long for it to come up in a vote to the people. We can't fix this dump. It is going to have to be dozed and rebuilt somewhere that's probably not so near downtown and thus cheaper land. They can move on and rebuild the rest of the county offices near the new facility too. The county offices are some of the most dated and crappy buildings we have downtown (inside and out).

Hey this is cool, so the jail trust was supposedly formed to be part of the justice reform and fix our horrible system that seeks to incarcerate for anything with the “lock em up and throw away the key” mentality. So what did this trust do?

“ Violating these rules can result in a misdemeanor charge punishable by up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $1,000. Arnall pointed out that they would risk increasing the population of the jail by adding new crimes to their books. She said that one of the purposes of the Trust was to reduce the jail population and to pursue criminal justice reforms.”

https://freepressokc.com/jail-trust-clamps-down-on-certain-types-of-speech-during-meetings/

Because free speech.

Hey this is cool, so the jail trust was supposedly formed to be part of the justice reform and fix our horrible system that seeks to incarcerate for anything with the “lock em up and throw away the key” mentality. So what did this trust do?

“ Violating these rules can result in a misdemeanor charge punishable by up to one year in jail and a fine of up to $1,000. Arnall pointed out that they would risk increasing the population of the jail by adding new crimes to their books. She said that one of the purposes of the Trust was to reduce the jail population and to pursue criminal justice reforms.”

https://freepressokc.com/jail-trust-clamps-down-on-certain-types-of-speech-during-meetings/

Because free speech.

People need to be respectful at these meetings and not abuse their access. There is a time and place for public comment--and that's a time and place for commenting, not disrupting or creating a scene. I can't recall a time when a Jail Trust meeting was overrun by protesters, but maybe they're all looking to shorten their meetings by lessening the time spent on public comment. If you really want a dialog with a Trust member, email them.

This isn't about "free speech" as a meeting of the Jail Trust is not a public forum, and thus, you don't have the right to break their rules and speak out of turn. If you want to get a permit and hold a protest right outside? Go for it.

^^ I'm not sure if it would qualify as "overrun" but I recall that when they announced that some Covid funds were going to the jail trust the protesters did disrupt the meeting where the vote was to take place so much they had to shut down and delay the vote. I expect that was the motivation of this action.

^^^ Oklahoma government is scared of people not just being “polite” and sitting cute taking what they hear and dealing with it. I have no doubt you are correct.

Mid, that’s all fine and well. I’m not sure what being a public forum or not has anything to with it. I’m pretty sure public forums have rules as well. This is a public meeting with a right to have your voice heard. We don’t need to be telling people what to say or banning certain things like profanity or something that you’d consider to be “disruptive.” That’s bloody absurd and no doubt will be used to keep the common man in check.

There are tensions because we have one of the worst jails in the nation where people are dying seemingly monthly or more and nothing is being done about it. The jail trust has completely failed and is an utter joke. This was supposed to be about true reform. They just added a former prison boss to the team. What is going to change? Oklahoma politics and it’s government just want to keep living in the 20th century.

More racism, more discrimination, more of the good ol boy mentality, and keeping the same same.

This is a public meeting with a right to have your voice heard.

No, the public has the right to attend, according to the Oklahoma Open Meetings Act. The body does not have to have a public comment portion at all.


There are tensions because we have one of the worst jails in the nation where people are dying seemingly monthly or more and nothing is being done about it. The jail trust has completely failed and is an utter joke. This was supposed to be about true reform. They just added a former prison boss to the team. What is going to change? Oklahoma politics and it’s government just want to keep living in the 20th century.

More racism, more discrimination, more of the good ol boy mentality, and keeping the same same.

Okay. But going to the meetings to harrass Trust members isn't the way to accomplish anything.

You say that but I’m not seeing harassment. Also, if the meeting allows for no public but attendance only then what a joke.

It looks like the powers that he won’t even consider building a new facility which I find to be a bad choice. We need a new county jail built downtown not out in the sticks.

“ OKLAHOMA CITY (Free Press) — On Thursday afternoon, the Oklahoma County Criminal Justice Advisory Council (CJAC) met at the new MAPS 3 Convention Center to consider hiring a new jail consulting firm.

CJAC has always been an idea group and was the body that developed the idea of a Jail Trust and a separate administrator for the jail other than the Oklahoma County Sheriff.

The group voted to hire the FSB (Frankfurt Short Bruza) architectural and engineering firm to investigate options for improving the physical facility that is the Oklahoma County Detention Center (Jail).

FSB has been involved in consulting, engineering, architecture, interior design, and other aspects of designing or redesigning spaces, many in the OKC metro. The latest example has been their involvement in the massive reworking of the Oklahoma State Capitol interior. They brought the building up to modern standards while recapturing the original look after many years and layers of smaller redesigns.”

- https://freepressokc.com/county-criminal-justice-group-hires-fsb-firm-to-find-jail-solutions/

At this point they need to secure a new location and start from scratch.

You can only patch it up for so long.

https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma-county-jail-loses-certification-to-house-juvenile-offenders-following-unannounced-visit-from-oklahoma-state-dept-of-health/

https://kfor.com/news/local/video-surfaces-of-oklahoma-county-jail-inmates-cooking-smoking-inside-cell/

Here's some FB Live footage leaked yesterday showing inmates having a cookout with fresh meat and vegetables and smoking what appears to be marijuana. David Prater is now calling for the Trust to be dissolved. It was a failed experiment. County officials wanted to blame the sheriff, but it's becoming clear that using what he was given, he was doing the best job anyone could do. That building needs to come down. A new facility should be built near downtown in order to provide inmates with access to counsel and to facilitate transportation--or even better, I'd love to see the criminal courts relocated to be connected to the jail to completely eliminate transportation security concerns. There is plenty of land near downtown/south of the river or on the east side of I-35 which could be used.

I've heard rumors that they wanted to build something in Choctaw, but I think that's nonsense. The county jail should be at the county seat.

A relative of mine was the Sherriff of an County in Oklahoma for a decade. During their time as Sherriff, the County built a new jail and they toured the Oklahoma County jail in the planning phase. When I mentioned the issues with the Oklahoma County jail, they basically told me the Oklahoma County Jail was an example of exactly how NOT to build a jail. It was built new with functional obsolescence. The older it gets, the worse it gets and there is no fixing it because it is fundamentally flawed.

They moved the county jail several miles away from the Courthouse, which required more shuttling, but improved the quality of life for the inmates.

https://kfor.com/news/local/video-surfaces-of-oklahoma-county-jail-inmates-cooking-smoking-inside-cell/

Here's some FB Live footage leaked yesterday showing inmates having a cookout with fresh meat and vegetables and smoking what appears to be marijuana. David Prater is now calling for the Trust to be dissolved. It was a failed experiment. County officials wanted to blame the sheriff, but it's becoming clear that using what he was given, he was doing the best job anyone could do. That building needs to come down. A new facility should be built near downtown in order to provide inmates with access to counsel and to facilitate transportation--or even better, I'd love to see the criminal courts relocated to be connected to the jail to completely eliminate transportation security concerns. There is plenty of land near downtown/south of the river or on the east side of I-35 which could be used.

I've heard rumors that they wanted to build something in Choctaw, but I think that's nonsense. The county jail should be at the county seat.

the closer to down town the more expensive it gets ....

there is plenty of OKC land far far from downtown .. that would be great for the county jail ...

somewhere near one of the land fills would be ideal .. (as that already depresses property values ..)

A relative of mine was the Sherriff of an County in Oklahoma for a decade. During their time as Sherriff, the County built a new jail and they toured the Oklahoma County jail in the planning phase. When I mentioned the issues with the Oklahoma County jail, they basically told me the Oklahoma County Jail was an example of exactly how NOT to build a jail. It was built new with functional obsolescence. The older it gets, the worse it gets and there is no fixing it because it is fundamentally flawed.

They moved the county jail several miles away from the Courthouse, which required more shuttling, but improved the quality of life for the inmates.

You could be talking about Cleveland County. Its location makes very little sense. It's located just barely within the City of Norman. Jails need to be centerally located because they service the entire county. Locating far from downtown now might save land acquisition costs, but those will be made up over time in transportation costs.

the closer to down town the more expensive it gets ....

there is plenty of OKC land far far from downtown .. that would be great for the county jail ...

somewhere near one of the land fills would be ideal .. (as that already depresses property values ..)
Lots of services built around the jail over the years. There’s also the issue of transportation. Every major city I can think of has their jail in the downtown area and it makes the most sense. OKC doesn’t have sky high land cost and has lots of area around its downtown to develop.