The jail being further from the Courthouse is more and more a non-issue. Video conferencing avoids many transfers already, and this is likely to only increase, even if the jail remains where it is and undergoes renovations. Most attorneys don't have a significant time percentage allotted to defending the accused, and the few attorneys who do are not likely to move their practices from downtown if the jail moves.

Agreed. I have a fairly limited criminal practice. I don't have to go down to the jail very often at all. The vast majority of the time, my clients don't come to see me 'til they've posted bail anyhow. If the jail relocates, I can definitely see a lot of bail bondsmen relocating, though.

The courtrooms themselves need to stay downtown. A lot of lawyers who do criminal practice also do other things as well, and often they have to juggle different sorts of cases at the same time as inevitably, things end up being overset. Moving the criminal court rooms elsewhere would likely cause more delays and problems with civil and family cases, which by local rule, I believe have to defer to criminal proceedings when lawyers are double booked.

(I know you know this, but everyone else probably doesn't)

I can see some low level court functions being relocated out of the downtown areas, I know that a new courthouse is planned near the existing one in Downtown Austin. I think Travis County may have relocated some traffic court functions out of down, and rumors are that will be the case with the city in the former Home Depot space.

The county jail is again in the news, with stories today in the Journal Record and from the Associated Press. Oklahoma County was given until November 2014 to "institute major upgrades or build a new facility." The County admitted earlier this year that "the county jail still isn't up to standards." Has that changed? The AP story then says that he (Maughan) is confident that "the issue has been taken care of appropriately, even though voters have shown little interest in a bond issue to pay for improvements."

How can the County not comply with the USDOJ order, and yet state that problems have been resolved?

The county jail is again in the news, with stories today in the Journal Record and from the Associated Press. Oklahoma County was given until November 2014 to "institute major upgrades or build a new facility." The County admitted earlier this year that "the county jail still isn't up to standards." Has that changed? The AP story then says that he (Maughan) is confident that "the issue has been taken care of appropriately, even though voters have shown little interest in a bond issue to pay for improvements."

How can the County not comply with the USDOJ order, and yet state that problems have been resolved?

This contradiction is no surprise given the piss poor leadership. Trust that nothing has been resolved.

This is still an issue I guess. I didn't know. They should rebuild it. Go taller and a better design.

I don't have a sub but if anyone does can you please post the article or a summary.
?Bite the bullet?: As federal deadline looms, commissioner says county jail issue needs to be put on ballot | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/09/26/bite-the-bullet-as-federal-deadline-looms-commissioner-says-county-jail-issue-needs-to-be-put-on-ballot-law/)

Yeah, I'd like to see the Sheriff's office and jail be moved into a much more attractive building. The current design just doesn't do it for me. It's nothing more than a windowless brick monolith.

Last I heard, when a new jail is built, the push will be for a lower profile structure to go out near Choctaw instead of a new tower in/near the DT courthouses.

Also last I heard, no politico is really wanting to stand at the forefront to champion building a new jail. I suppose it is possible that some folk may be passing the decision to the feds to be able to say this wasn't their idea they are just stuck with it by them meddlin' fedophiles.

Near Choctaw wouldn't be bad. Then tear down the old building and build a tower in its place

This is still an issue I guess. I didn't know. They should rebuild it. Go taller and a better design.

I don't have a sub but if anyone does can you please post the article or a summary.
?Bite the bullet?: As federal deadline looms, commissioner says county jail issue needs to be put on ballot | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/09/26/bite-the-bullet-as-federal-deadline-looms-commissioner-says-county-jail-issue-needs-to-be-put-on-ballot-law/)

‘Bite the bullet’: As federal deadline looms, commissioner says county jail issue needs to be put on ballot
By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 26, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY – It would be easy to let the federal government bear the brunt of taxpayers’ ire if the U.S. Department of Justice sues for a property tax hike to pay for a new county jail. But Oklahoma County Commissioner Ray Vaughn said he wants to avoid that blame game.

“I don’t like that approach,” he said. “We have a responsibility to get the issue out there and be leaders. The sheriff and I have been discussing this and how we might make it a little more palatable, but we’re certainly not there yet.

“Nobody’s going to like it,” Vaughn said. “But it’s one of those things that you just have to bite the bullet and put it on the ballot. It’s our job to educate the voters and make them see that it is something that’s necessary.”

Local officials still have time to step up and educate the public about seemingly insurmountable problems at the jail and take control of the funding vehicle for its replacement, he said. It’s a window of opportunity that is quickly collapsing. A Justice Department memorandum of understanding expires in just five weeks, at which point the county will face an expensive resolution.

If inspectors determine that the jail still doesn’t meet minimum safety standards after four years of corrective efforts, the Justice Department will likely sue to construct a solution on its own and then charge local residents at an estimated cost of as much as $280 million. And that would require a bond issue backed by property taxes.

But county officials are still holding hope that their best efforts will be deemed good enough, at least for an extension.

Until they hear from the Justice Department, it would be inappropriate to discuss hypothetical financial solutions, Sheriff John Whetsel said.

“We’re still waiting to hear back from the Department of Justice and their last visit,” he said. “We’ve received no report, no update, nothing. So it’s premature for me to have a comment about what may or may not be the next appropriate plan or thing to do until then.

“I’m trying to take the lead at this point to come up with at least some recommendations as soon as we hear from the Department of Justice,” Whetsel said. “Saying that we’re not doing anything isn’t correct; it’s just that we’re trying to prepare for when we do hear from them.”

The last inspection took place in the first quarter of the year. Justice Department officials could not be reached for comment about the expected report.

The 13-story jail has been plagued with problems for more than two decades, significant enough to attract the Justice Department’s attention for civil rights violations. In 2008, inspectors found that the jail was overcrowded, violent and lacking oversight. A written agreement allowed the county to avoid costly sanctions, but it was contingent on a long list of corrections.

Last year, the Justice Department inspectors once again found inadequate changes in certain areas, particularly the jail’s medical and mental health programs. Although the Justice Department has credited local officials with improvements, nothing in print would suggest an extension is possible. Whetsel said that was implied verbally.

County Commissioner Willa Johnson said officials are stuck between the proverbial rock and hard place, the feeling that they’ve done everything possible and the realization that it still might not be sufficient. Like the others, she doesn’t know what to do.

“We need to do something and do it quickly,” she said. “We just can’t not do anything. But we can’t spend the taxpayers’ money on a new facility either if we’re allowed to do something different.”

Residents have had years to avoid the threat by passing a temporary penny sales tax increase, but commissioners said surveys by the Greater Chamber of Oklahoma City revealed that solution was unpalatable, so they didn’t push it.
Vaughn said yielding to inertia isn’t really an option anymore.

“I could walk you through the jail today and you’d see collapsed sewer lines; you’d see a kitchen that has been operating outside the jail for the last three months; and I would show you money that we’re just throwing down the drain, at a cost of about $1.2 million to fix it,” Vaughn said.

Johnson said that, like Vaughn, she’s leaning toward a new jail, and she’s ready to make a public pitch for it.

“I personally think we should go at this with a sales tax of our own so that we’ll also have some funds for operations and maintenance,” she said. “And if we put it on a bond issue, by the time we pay those off, we could build the jail.

“I’m desperate for people to understand just how dire this situation is,” she said.

Thank you

L.A. may give clues to future of Oklahoma County Jail | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/10/17/la-may-give-clues-to-future-of-oklahoma-county-jail-law/)

Here is the full article from the link PP posted:

L.A. may give clues to future of Oklahoma County Jail

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record October 17, 20140

OKLAHOMA CITY – Just weeks from the expiration of a temporary agreement with the U.S. Department of Justice, Oklahoma County officials are looking to California for a hint about the fate of the county jail and its shortfalls.

A recent report on the Los Angeles County jail is, so far, the only suggestion of a resolution, as Oklahoma County Commissioner Ray Vaughn confirmed Friday that local officials still haven’t heard from the Justice Department on whether residents will be forced to build a new jail to deal with deficiencies in inmate oversight.

“We don’t usually comment on actions prior to taking them,” said Justice Department spokeswoman Dena Iverson when asked about Oklahoma County’s impending deadline.

Instead of additional comment, the Justice Department pointed to its Civil Rights Division’s recent follow-up to Los Angeles’ 12-year struggle to provide adequate mental health services and suicide prevention for inmates. Iverson said the document should not be construed as a telegraph of action expected in Oklahoma, but that the comparisons could prove insightful.

The Justice Department has been watching Oklahoma County’s operations for several years, with a focus on suicides and constitutional rights violations at the detention center. In 2008, the department inspected the site and determined that the jail lacked oversight and was overcrowded and violent.

For example, the Justice Department found that since 2010, public records show 22 people have died at the jail while in the custody of law enforcement officers. Nine of those deaths were self-inflicted, and 10 inmates died from natural causes. The three remaining deaths in 2013 and 2014 were identified as homicides.

County officials reached an agreement with the department to avoid costly sanctions, but the memorandum of understanding, or MOU, was contingent on a long list of corrections, including better compliance reporting, suicide risk assessments, mental health referrals and staff training. The MOU listed more than 60 issues to fix before November this year.

The text of the MOU lacked specific details of recourse if Oklahoma County fell short.

“If, after reasonable notice to the county, and a reasonable opportunity to cure any deficiencies identified in writing, the United States determines that the county has not substantially complied with this MOU, the United States may pursue litigation against the county,” according to the document. “The United States reserves the right to file an action under (the Civil Rights of Institutionalized Persons Act) alleging a pattern or practice of unconstitutional conditions at the jail at any time if it believes the county of Oklahoma County is not making a good-faith effort.”

County officials like Vaughn have been concerned at what was left unspoken: The federal government’s lawsuit could demand a new jail at the county’s expense. Best estimates place that price tag at about $280 million in a bond issue that would drive up property taxes.

But the California situation, which also involves civil rights violations and a memorandum of agreement, similar to a MOU, suggests it might not be an all-or-nothing conclusion. In June 2014 the Justice Department wrote to Los Angeles County to inform officials that although the jail had made huge strides in fixing its problems, enough serious systemic deficiencies remained that require stronger remediation.

“In the face of these ongoing problems and the ineffectiveness of the MOA to ensure that prisoners with mental illness are protected from suicide and other harms, we propose to enter into negotiations with the county regarding a court enforceable agreement to substitute for certain critical terms of the MOA,” the Justice Department wrote.

In short, in the document the Justice Department urges the Los Angeles sheriff’s office to reduce its prisoner population and divert arrestees with mental illness to other facilities. The feds repeatedly praised the county for its efforts and accomplishments thus far, but ultimately held the line that a better solution was still required.

Oklahoma County officials have said they believe the U.S. government will also credit the county for its own corrections and provide for an alternative. Sheriff John Whetsel, for example, said in February that the county could begin building an expansion of some sort on an as-needed basis and reduce the current jail to annex operations.

In the meantime, commissioners Vaughn and Willa Johnson said they’re also trying to determine the best approach to convince residents to pass a tax initiative that would be less expensive than the federal government’s worst-case scenario.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/5363921?embargo=1


Did the feds blink?

The deadline for a threatened takeover of the Oklahoma County jail passed Wednesday without a word from the U.S. Department of Justice.

In 2003, the department began investigating jail conditions for civil rights violations.

A “memorandum of understanding” followed in 2009. The document gave county officials five years to make about 60 changes to operations, training, and mental health and medical services.
Though the 2009 agreement expired Wednesday with several issues unresolved, Oklahoma County Sheriff John Whetsel said he did not expect the Justice Department to follow through on its threat to take over the jail.

“Nov. 6 you’re not going to see a change in the way we’re doing business,” Whetsel said.

A Justice Department attorney did not respond to requests for comment Wednesday

Justice Department says it will keep monitoring Oklahoma County jail | NewsOK.com (http://m.newsok.com/justice-department-says-it-will-keep-monitoring-oklahoma-county-jail/article/5364375)


The U.S. Justice Department will continue to monitor conditions at the troubled Oklahoma County jail and has no immediate plans to relinquish oversight, a spokeswoman said Thursday.

The U.S. Justice Department will continue to monitor conditions at the troubled Oklahoma County jail and has no immediate plans to relinquish oversight, a spokeswoman said Thursday.
But Justice Department spokeswoman Dena Iverson said in an email Thursday evening that the agreement “does not expire and it will not terminate” this month.
She said it “only terminates if the parties agree that the jail is in substantial compliance with all provisions of the agreement and maintains that compliance for 12 months.”

“As of this date, the jurisdiction does not meet this provision,” she wrote. “DOJ’s monitoring of this matter continues.”



Continued on Page 2

Meanwhile, things have become worse, not better. The kitchen has been offline for months and no hot meals are going out. There are all kinds of plumbing issues. Prisoners are 4 to a cell and on 24/7 lockdown. Considering most of these people are still innocent and not yet proved guilty, this is pretty outrageous. The feds need to take over. County politicians do not have the political will to do what must be done. This is a huge failure on the part of the Commissioners and the Sherrif.

Meanwhile, things have become worse, not better. The kitchen has been offline for months and no hot meals are going out. There are all kinds of plumbing issues. Prisoners are 4 to a cell and on 24/7 lockdown. Considering most of these people are still innocent and not yet proved guilty, this is pretty outrageous. The feds need to take over. County politicians do not have the political will to do what must be done. This is a huge failure on the part of the Commissioners and the Sherrif.

I'm all for a jail tax, because if the Feds take it over, it's going to be twice the cost of what it should be done for. Hooray

Considering most of these people are still innocent and not yet proved guilty, this is pretty outrageous. .

I think it is a big stretch to say they are innocent. Maybe they haven't been convicted in court, but saying MOST are innocent is incorrect and misleading. The conviction rates are high.

I think it is a big stretch to say they are innocent. Maybe they haven't been convicted in court, but saying MOST are innocent is incorrect and misleading. The conviction rates are high.

I understand where you are coming from and agree that most probably are guilty but that pesky Bill of Rights does say that we are innocent until proven guilty.

I'm not ready to start usurping those rights myself.

I think it is a big stretch to say they are innocent. Maybe they haven't been convicted in court, but saying MOST are innocent is incorrect and misleading. The conviction rates are high.

consider the post was written by a lawyer, but yeah technically it's true

Maybe they should have written it guilty until proven innocent? That is what it is in reality.

Maybe they should have written it guilty until proven innocent? That is what it is in reality.

If there are grounds for arrest and holding, then they are not presumed innocent in a real sense. The innocent until proven guilty is an instruction for the jury. If you want to be entirely simplistic and literal, then there would be NO RIGHT to even arrest or to try someone as they would be innocent. You would have to have a trial first and let everyone roam about and carry on until trial ended. But even a lawyer has to admit that being innocent of a crime and being PRESUMED innocent for trial purposes is entirely different. It just means that guilt has to be proven to mete out any kind of punishment.

The original implication was that we are just holding lots of innocent people and that is why we have a jail space problem. LOL. We have a jail problem because we have crime problems.

Meanwhile, things have become worse, not better. The kitchen has been offline for months and no hot meals are going out. There are all kinds of plumbing issues. Prisoners are 4 to a cell and on 24/7 lockdown. Considering most of these people are still innocent and not yet proved guilty, this is pretty outrageous. The feds need to take over. County politicians do not have the political will to do what must be done. This is a huge failure on the part of the Commissioners and the Sherrif.I agree.
What are the chances the feds actually do take it over? I kind of wish they would because I don't think we're going to do anything about it.

Maybe they should have written it guilty until proven innocent? That is what it is in reality.Yeap

If there are grounds for arrest and holding, then they are not presumed innocent in a real sense. The innocent until proven guilty is an instruction for the jury.

Saying the right to be presumed innocent is only a trial right might be technically correct in a narrow legal sense. However, presumption of innocence is a fundamental principle of common law that applies to every stage of criminal proceedings from investigation through trial. Indeed, it's during investigation and pretrial detention that an accused person's right to remain silent and not make any statement against himself is most likely to be violated, resulting in a violation of his right to be presumed innocent.


If you want to be entirely simplistic and literal, then there would be NO RIGHT to even arrest or to try someone as they would be innocent. You would have to have a trial first and let everyone roam about and carry on until trial ended. But even a lawyer has to admit that being innocent of a crime and being PRESUMED innocent for trial purposes is entirely different. It just means that guilt has to be proven to mete out any kind of punishment.

It's true that presumption of innocence doesn't mean actual innocence. And of course not everyone presumed innocent is actually innocent. However, the justification for the arrest of a suspect prior to conviction is not based on absence of presumed innocence. That's a bizarre idea. If police can simply presume a suspect's guilt up until they get in the courtroom, the accused may never even make it there. They could just throw him in prison. But they can't because he has the right to due process, the reason for which is, in part, to protect the life, liberty, and property of every accused person yet to be proven guilty. The presumption of innocence is laced throughout, and it is unequivocally not limited to a criminal trial.

It's interesting that you somewhat scoff at the idea of those accused of crimes "roaming about and carrying on until trial ended" because that's exactly how criminal trials are supposed to happen. Seizure/arrest/detention/imprisonment are all potential infringements of a myriad of rights. Any action like these by the state that deprives a person of liberty (or property, or their life) prior to conviction and sentencing amounts to unjust punishment of a presumed innocent person if it is not a limited, reasonable, and lawful effort to investigate or prosecute an alleged crime. Consistent with this precept, very nearly all people arrested in the US are able to have their liberty restored – be released from jail – while awaiting trial and during trial, provided they meet the requirements of bail. The Supreme Court held in U.S. v. Salerno "In our society liberty is the norm, and detention prior to trial or without trial is the carefully limited exception."

The fact that our society and laws permit these limited and temporary breaches of some rights (pursuant to due process) to make criminal prosecution possible does not suggest in the least that it's permissible for those who suffer such infringement to be deprived of the presumption of their innocence. Many people jailed are never convicted of the crime they were arrested for, and many of those are innocent. Being arrested and jailed should never be a de facto implication of guilt.

It's our duty to ensure the safety and humane treatment of every person in our jail, most of all those yet convicted.

In the end, I understand that you are trying to make a distinction between the commonly held, but false "innocent until proven guilty" and the actual presumption of innocence that technically only applies at trial. But reverence for our rights (including the rights of criminals) and for defending and expanding them is vital.

Attica! Attica! Attica! Attica!

Last I heard, when a new jail is built, the push will be for a lower profile structure to go out near Choctaw instead of a new tower in/near the DT courthouses.

Also last I heard, no politico is really wanting to stand at the forefront to champion building a new jail. I suppose it is possible that some folk may be passing the decision to the feds to be able to say this wasn't their idea they are just stuck with it by them meddlin' fedophiles.

Love your coined term kevinpate: 'fedophiles.' :congrats:

Too bad we decided to take a delay-of-game penalty and punt this decision process to the Feds; they will stick it to us--lube less enema style. The only saving grace I see with this will be that if the Feds screw up, it's on them.

You're correct, no one wanted to take on that new county jail dilemma. When the Feds finish billing us with a new county jail 'invoice' that will include fees for oversight, planning, development, construction, taxes, tax on taxes, and a 25% gratuity to discourage any future thoughts to entertain Federal intervention.


https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608043876263726814&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608052522031187189&pid=15.1&P=0
Just stack another 14 stories on top of this aging edifice and call it a day... It will make a lot of OKCTalk forum skyscraper proponents, HAPPY! :band:

It would have been less expensive for us to undertake this project on our own.

While I am not crazy about the OK county jail, adding height to it would only make a bad problem far, far, worse, even if it could be done.

Building low profile and spread out away from DT probably does make the most sense. It really has not mussed matters up here in Cleveland County or elsewhere where that approach is taken. Then again, ours wasn't built all that many miles out of DT really (5 or so miles)

Saying the right to be presumed innocent is only a trial right might be technically correct in a narrow legal sense. However, presumption of innocence is a fundamental principle of common law that applies to every stage of criminal proceedings from investigation through trial...

http://image-cdn.zap2it.com/images/himym-lawyered.gif

Forget the county jail. I'm here for the discussion on jurisprudence. Who's up for a discussion of the Coffin case?

All joking aside, a facility that fails to keep inmates and staff healthy and safe has no place in our society.

Forget the county jail. I'm here for the discussion on jurisprudence. Who's up for a discussion of the Coffin case?

:wink:


All joking aside, a facility that fails to keep inmates and staff healthy and safe has no place in our society.

Hear, hear!

I heard once that the warden threw a party in the county jail.

Oklahoma County Jail Pipe Problem Leads To Flood - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/27410688/oklahoma-county-jail-pipe-problem-leads-to-flood)

Oklahoma County Jail Flooded Again - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/27762715/oklahoma-county-jail-flooded-again)

Starting to sound like some of those foreign jails you see on those hour-long TV documentaries on NatGeo.

from the linked article:
- Back in December, 2014, more than 21 gallons of water flooded the first floor.

I presume that is a typo as that is not much water at all ... about 5 mop buckets worth.

Lets get a developer on this, because you know the downtown committee will recommend demo'ing the jail...you know, before there's even a plan for the site.

Lets get a developer on this, because you know the downtown committee will recommend demo'ing the jail...you know, before there's even a plan for the site.

That'd be a demolition I wouldn't mind at all.

Lets get a developer on this, because you know the downtown committee will recommend demo'ing the jail...you know, before there's even a plan for the site.

LOL, no kidding and probably from an intentional toilet flooding from an inmate. Newsflash: Experts predict we will have cold days this winter!

From the JR:

Corrections officials detail overcrowding, underfunding

By: Anya Alvarez The Journal Record January 9, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – People who work in Oklahoma’s prison system worry about understaffing and overpopulation. They discussed their concerns Thursday at an Oklahoma Board of Corrections meeting as they prepared to ask for larger state appropriations next year.

Laura Pitman, a division manager in the prison system, said prisons are filled to 116-percent capacity, and the Oklahoma Department of Corrections has only 67-percent funding to pay for staff.

Jerry Massie, DOC public information officer, said part of the understaffing problem is due to lack of funding, but it’s also difficult to retain employees.

“We do have a hard time keeping employees because the hours are demanding, and of course pay is part of the issue,” he said. “We don’t have the funds to pay higher wages. Especially in the more rural areas, many people leave working for the prison to work for oil fields instead. The oil boom really hurt us because we simply can’t compete with what oil companies pay.”

The average correctional officer in Oklahoma makes about $26,000 per year, Massie said.

He also said the mental health problem in Oklahoma affects the number of inmates. The state ranks second in the nation in mental health illness, and studies have shown those with severe mental illnesses are three to four more times likely to commit a violent crime, according to Dr. Jeffrey Swanson, a professor of psychiatry at Duke University.

Currently, 13,689 inmates in Oklahoma, almost 48 percent, are serving for violent offenses. The other 14,938 inmates are serving time for nonviolent crimes. According to a nationwide Bureau of Justice study, 52.4 percent of prisoners in state prisons in 2008 were in for violent crimes.

“The DOC works closely with the Department of Mental Health,” Massie said.

He said the Re-Entry Intensive Care Coordination Program, implemented by the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, is designed to work with offenders with serious mental illness before they are discharged, then work with them until they are fully participating in appropriate care services.

Fourteen of the 77 counties in the state run mental health courts. They are an effective tool to help save the state money in the prison system, a recent study done by the ODMHSAS found. The DOC said about 12,600 offenders in the prison system have mental health needs. Fifty-seven percent of those inmates were incarcerated for nonviolent crimes.

Mental health court programs could potentially save the state millions if invested in properly. The average annual cost of housing an inmate with a mental health need is $23,000, while the average annual cost for a participant in mental health court is $5,400. This could potentially save the state $17,600 per year for each participant.

Mental health court programs not only save money when it comes to housing an inmate, they also help decrease jail stays, improve unemployment rates, and decrease inpatient hospitalization days, all of which lead to more savings for the state.

The DOC proposed that legislators provide funds for pay raises in fiscal year 2016. The DOC requested $555 million, compared to $471 million it received for FY 2015.

Oklahoma needs more revenue streams to fund the needs of the Criminal Justice System's incarceration of inmates with mental disabilities. Now would be the time to legalize marijuana for medical and recreational use; you could use a portion of these funds to address those deficiencies

From the JR:

Corrections officials detail overcrowding, underfunding

By: Anya Alvarez The Journal Record January 9, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – People who work in Oklahoma’s prison system worry about understaffing and overpopulation. They discussed their concerns Thursday at an Oklahoma Board of Corrections meeting as they prepared to ask for larger state appropriations next year.

Laura Pitman, a division manager in the prison system, said prisons are filled to 116-percent capacity, and the Oklahoma Department of Corrections has only 67-percent funding to pay for staff.

Jerry Massie, DOC public information officer, said part of the understaffing problem is due to lack of funding, but it’s also difficult to retain employees.

“We do have a hard time keeping employees because the hours are demanding, and of course pay is part of the issue,” he said. “We don’t have the funds to pay higher wages. Especially in the more rural areas, many people leave working for the prison to work for oil fields instead. The oil boom really hurt us because we simply can’t compete with what oil companies pay.”

The average correctional officer in Oklahoma makes about $26,000 per year, Massie said.

He also said the mental health problem in Oklahoma affects the number of inmates. The state ranks second in the nation in mental health illness, and studies have shown those with severe mental illnesses are three to four more times likely to commit a violent crime, according to Dr. Jeffrey Swanson, a professor of psychiatry at Duke University.

Currently, 13,689 inmates in Oklahoma, almost 48 percent, are serving for violent offenses. The other 14,938 inmates are serving time for nonviolent crimes. According to a nationwide Bureau of Justice study, 52.4 percent of prisoners in state prisons in 2008 were in for violent crimes.

“The DOC works closely with the Department of Mental Health,” Massie said.

He said the Re-Entry Intensive Care Coordination Program, implemented by the Oklahoma Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, is designed to work with offenders with serious mental illness before they are discharged, then work with them until they are fully participating in appropriate care services.

Fourteen of the 77 counties in the state run mental health courts. They are an effective tool to help save the state money in the prison system, a recent study done by the ODMHSAS found. The DOC said about 12,600 offenders in the prison system have mental health needs. Fifty-seven percent of those inmates were incarcerated for nonviolent crimes.

Mental health court programs could potentially save the state millions if invested in properly. The average annual cost of housing an inmate with a mental health need is $23,000, while the average annual cost for a participant in mental health court is $5,400. This could potentially save the state $17,600 per year for each participant.

Mental health court programs not only save money when it comes to housing an inmate, they also help decrease jail stays, improve unemployment rates, and decrease inpatient hospitalization days, all of which lead to more savings for the state.

The DOC proposed that legislators provide funds for pay raises in fiscal year 2016. The DOC requested $555 million, compared to $471 million it received for FY 2015.
That's very interesting but does it have any relation to the county jail other than being about correctional facilities?

The worst jail in America - Business Insider (http://www.businessinsider.com/the-worst-jail-in-america-2015-2?utm_content=buffer110bc&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer)

Did the jail make the changes the DOJ ordered 5 years ago?

IIRC, the jail has met about all the modifications they can meet, short of building a new one

Are most large cities' county jails part of their downtown skylines? I didn't live in the state when it was built, so don't remember if there was any controversy over its location or height. If not, was it because downtown was still in such a slump at the time?

This doesn't mean this will happen, but nevertheless.

Study committee recommends building new Oklahoma County jail | News OK (http://newsok.com/study-committee-recommends-building-new-oklahoma-county-jail/article/5435136)

This project is for a county government that has always been corrupt and inept. It's also a county govt that shouldn't even exist anymore but I digress...

Until that situation is solved, this shouldn't (and prob won't) get funded.

Why does congress have abysmally low approval ratings but everyone loves and re-elects their own congressman?

From KFOR:

County committee recommends building new Oklahoma County jail | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2015/07/21/county-committee-recommends-building-new-oklahoma-county-jail/)


From here, the recommendation goes to county commissioners, who could decide whether or not to put this measure on the ballot in the Fall.

This project is for a county government that has always been corrupt and inept. It's also a county govt that shouldn't even exist anymore but I digress...

Until that situation is solved, this shouldn't (and prob won't) get funded.

Hey, Spartan.
For the purposes of this question, let's ignore corruption and ineptitude (I think they're symptoms of the county's useless appendage status to OKC). Let's make you king for a (few) day(s). What would you do about the county? Lump it and the city together? Merge the metro counties so they can function as a county, again? Make it a subordinate municipal entity to the city? I'm not baiting you -- just curious.
Now let's make you a (favorably viewed) municipal muse to the OKC City Council. What would you recommend they do with the county?

Build a new jail and sherriff's office away from downtown and give the old building to the wrecking ball!

That property is now relatively valuable.

They could raise some of the needed money by selling it and building somewhere cheap.

Very true Pete. I'd like to see the County Offices/Courthouse move out of downtown or at least into some new digs as well.

We're very past due on needing the new jail. Regardless of what happened, the residents of the county got screwed over when we built the place and we have no recourse in that now. The construction and design firms are gone (can't imagine why huh...remember they also did Plaza Towers Elem., which was found to have been built counter to the architect's design...such as not filling the cinderblocks...I digress). So we need to move on, and unfortunately, the citizens are going to have to pay the price for this. Remember though, if you live in OK county in any way, regardless of what city you live in, your police force use this jail for anything more than short holdings. So everyone does get use out of the place. The way we've been treating inmates has been counterproductive for 50 years. They're coming out more hardened and more ready to commit even more violent crimes than when they went in. Hopefully, the new design will allow for some actual reform to take place rather than just putting people in a hole with free food/board/etc with plenty of time to think about the people they hate.

Much like the gas tax....it's something we need, but no one wants to think past their immediate needs to pay for it. And also remember, if we don't vote to approve it, then the feds are going to come in and fine us for as long as we aren't in compliance. And THAT will cost even more than this plan.

I haven't paid that much attention to this lately, but if that is the recommendation that tax seems incredibly high. I understand that this would just encompass Oklahoma County and that MAPS taxes are within the City limits, which fall into other counties, but I would still suspect the numbers would not be too far off. Considering inflation, seems fair to assume that a new county-wide sales tax would have similar results to the City-wide MAPS tax passed in 2009, expected to earn roughly $100 million per year.

So if we go with that, we are being told that it is going to cost HALF A BILLION DOLLARS to build the jail, and more than $50 million per year to operate it? That's more that TWICE what we have in the Chesapeake Arena, including NBA upgrades AND the practice facility.

Hey, Spartan.
For the purposes of this question, let's ignore corruption and ineptitude (I think they're symptoms of the county's useless appendage status to OKC). Let's make you king for a (few) day(s). What would you do about the county? Lump it and the city together? Merge the metro counties so they can function as a county, again? Make it a subordinate municipal entity to the city? I'm not baiting you -- just curious.
Now let's make you a (favorably viewed) municipal muse to the OKC City Council. What would you recommend they do with the county?

I helped lobby for the Greater OKC Chamber proposal to allow for city home rule, which would allow municipal corporations to develop their own system of government. This would allow Pawhuska County to maintain Pawhuska County the way God intended it to be (which I can only assume is the way it is), while allowing Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to form a combined city-county government. This has been done successful with Nashville, Louisville, Indianapolis, KCK, Miami FL, and countless other places. Perhaps instead of absorbing the county, you form a system like STL City and STL County. Conversely, many highly urbanized areas are actually comprised of mostly unincorporated areas within a strong county, ie. Arlington County, VA, Westchester County, NY, or Orange County, CA. The point being that you can have it many different ways, but you need a consolidated local government.

The backwards Oklahoma system really only works when it takes an entire day to travel by carriage from one end to the county to the other. In the 80s, the Oklahoma county commissioners pulled off one of the most incredible corruption rackets in U.S. history, Oklahoma County has always been a nice little cesspool of corruption in contrast to the more-visible city government, and to this day it is merely the political connections of the county commissioners that are preventing any updates to the legal framework.

There were some very good ideas coming out of that committee.

On OK County jail: ?We don?t want business as usual? | News OK (http://newsok.com/on-ok-county-jail-we-dont-want-business-as-usual/article/5437587)


One size fits all no longer fits.

If there's a message being sent by a study committee regarding the need for a new Oklahoma County jail, that is it.

•Tossing the mentally ill in jail because there's nowhere else to send them no longer fits.

•Locking low-level offenders up rather than sentencing them to community service no longer fits.

•A drug court that lacks sufficient capacity for treatment and oversight no longer fits.

•Living under the threat of federal intervention to set things straight no longer fits.

"We don't want business as usual," Stacey Trumbo, the county engineer and chairman of a committee that studied jail needs told Oklahoma County commissioners this week

To the above point, you need to go back and look at the record of the exact same county leadership (Whetsel) that is asking for this new jail. Zero confidence whatsoever in the above nice goals. You don't get to just adopt the loveliest goals you see on HuffPo when you have no track record of anything remotely close.

To the above point, you need to go back and look at the record of the exact same county leadership (Whetsel) that is asking for this new jail. Zero confidence whatsoever in the above nice goals. You don't get to just adopt the loveliest goals you see on HuffPo when you have no track record of anything remotely close.

OK, so you're in favor of leaving everything exactly as it is then regardless of what the good goals are? I'm not defending Whetsel, but he was not sheriff when this jail was designed and built.

From the NewsOK article: "Police officers would have somewhere besides jail to take people in the midst of mental breakdowns..."

Is that seriously what's happening now? Officers, at one time, took emotional breakdowns to the Crisis Center (http://www.okdrs.org/drupal/guide/oklahoma-county-crisis-intervention-center). Does that no longer happen?

If they are seriously taking people who suffer mental breakdowns to jail, that makes as much sense as taking someone with a heart attack to jail. Just because one is the brain and the other the heart - they are both medical issues. Neither deserving of jail.

There are a lot of problems with the way the county courthouse is run. Many of the problems they are talking about fixing have nothing to do with the jail. That's not to say that the jail doesn't need replaced -- it does. But more mental health treatment has nothing to do with that.