Say you own a nice house without a jail IYBY. Then they build a jail IYBY. What would that do to your property value? Would it go up or down? And how easy would it be to sell that house with a jail IYBY?

Which is why it shouldn't be built with houses in it's back yard.

I wonder how much the land is worth where the jail currently exists and what the county intentions are for it if they're successful in relocating the jail.
They will make money selling it to some developer who will then sign a deal to build a new development that will be built by flintco. If it's built on the current site then none of that will happen.

I don't think anyone really considered how much NIMBYism they'd run into on this thing. I don't get it though. I lived in Sycamore (across the street from the present jail) for 5 years and never had a single issue.

If you drive down Grand where the proposed site was located you would have no clue there were houses anywhere near there. It's all industrial. Realistically they are going to be met with opposition anywhere unless it's out in the middle of nowhere. Personally I hope they just declare sovereignty over the land like they were discussing and move forward. They might end up needing to do this regardless at some point anywhere besides the current location.

I lived in SoSA and could see the jail out my window; walked past it several times a week...

Never an issue and it was generally very quiet and low-traffic on the outside.

I lived in SoSA and could see the jail out my window; walked past it several times a week...

Never an issue and it was generally very quiet and low-traffic on the outside.

When I lived at the Haven a year ago, there were also no problems. However, it was depressing to drive by occasionally and see fire and ambulance trucks parked nearby.

When I lived at the Haven a year ago, there were also no problems. However, it was depressing to drive by occasionally and see fire and ambulance trucks parked nearby.

Same could be said for living near a nursing home or a hospital I guess. There are many sanitized neighborhoods one could move to that avoid occurrences of life if one wanted, or one can enjoy the great mix of life around them.

In Del City's case, the argument was not so much about the day to day existence of a jail. It would be very quiet on a normal day, nothing to see here. The issue they had was that the county doesn't have a good plan (and never has) for release except to put them to the curb and say "have a nice day". Some people get rides back home and others are left to wander in whatever state they are in. The wandering folks are the element that the DC residents are not a fan of. That's the crime element that they are thinking of.

Is it the county's responsibility to put the person back where they belong? No, probably not. But it's also not in the best interests of the county residents that live near the facility, for the people to effectively be dumped in their back yard either. I'm not sure what a good solution for this would be other than giving them a free bus pass for the day to get closer to home and just partnering with Embark to have one bus go there daily and time the releases for it. They would be able to coordinate that to know where the people were going to want to end up and then use that bus as a transfer bus to the central transfer center to go where they need. Sundays create a problem though because i dont think the busses run then do they?

In Del City's case, the argument was not so much about the day to day existence of a jail. It would be very quiet on a normal day, nothing to see here. The issue they had was that the county doesn't have a good plan (and never has) for release except to put them to the curb and say "have a nice day". Some people get rides back home and others are left to wander in whatever state they are in. The wandering folks are the element that the DC residents are not a fan of. That's the crime element that they are thinking of.

Is it the county's responsibility to put the person back where they belong? No, probably not. But it's also not in the best interests of the county residents that live near the facility, for the people to effectively be dumped in their back yard either. I'm not sure what a good solution for this would be other than giving them a free bus pass for the day to get closer to home and just partnering with Embark to have one bus go there daily and time the releases for it. They would be able to coordinate that to know where the people were going to want to end up and then use that bus as a transfer bus to the central transfer center to go where they need. Sundays create a problem though because i dont think the busses run then do they?

except no one was being "dumped " in a back yard ... industrial with out connecting streets is between the neighborhood and the proposed site ..

Again, and I hate beating with dead horse, but I support building it on the current site downtown. If they choose not to do that, it seems like that property is worth a significant amount of money. Once they get whatever it is, they can get built. They should be able to get a good amount of money from selling that off. That money could go to expanding the new facility.

This whole thing is the textbook definition of a debacle.I agree with you that this whole thing is a debacle, and it has been since the current jail was built.

I disagree that the property is worth a SIGNIFICANT amount of money. That building can't feasibly be repurposed, so it has to come down. That will cost a ton of money. The property itself is only 7 acres.

At $2 or $3 million an acre (just a guess here) and subtracting demolition/remediation costs, it's not worth much, IMHO.

If the jail property was really that important for a development the apartment development on the lot one block north wouldn't have fallen through. Seems like they're going to spend far more money building the new jail than they'll ever get for the old jail site.

It's just conspiracy theories from people who are assuming the worst from evil developers.

In Del City's case, the argument was not so much about the day to day existence of a jail. It would be very quiet on a normal day, nothing to see here. The issue they had was that the county doesn't have a good plan (and never has) for release except to put them to the curb and say "have a nice day". Some people get rides back home and others are left to wander in whatever state they are in. The wandering folks are the element that the DC residents are not a fan of. That's the crime element that they are thinking of.

I'm not sure that's correct. I don't have link to it, but I seem to remember a very definite discussion or proposal about taking released prisoners back downtown and out of that area instead of being directly released there.

Hey i'm just saying what they said their complaint was.

But taking them downtown wouldn't make sense unless they are taking them to the bus station with a pass. Otherwise, why would the be dropped somewhere downtown? How is that helpful for anyone?

Surely 1/4 into the 21st century, our prisons have a better system of releasing someone other than the standard movie trope of opening a gate and letting them walk out with a bag of their belongings that they had when they got imprisoned. :rolleyes:

It's a jail, not a prison. Most people released have only been in the jail for a matter of hours.

When I lived at the Haven a year ago, there were also no problems. However, it was depressing to drive by occasionally and see fire and ambulance trucks parked nearby.

That's where I lived back when it was Sycamore South.

But yeah, never a problem.

It wasn't a consideration when I moved there, in fact, since I was in law school, being close to the jail and the courthouses was a selling point for me.

It's a jail, not a prison. Most people released have only been in the jail for a matter of hours.

You're right, my bad, still probably won't be a problem, as everybody else on here has said.

Surely 1/4 into the 21st century, our prisons have a better system of releasing someone other than the standard movie trope of opening a gate and letting them walk out with a bag of their belongings that they had when they got imprisoned. :rolleyes:

Out of curiosity, what type of departure do you think happens in the 21st century? It's the state releasing a detained individual into public. There's not a welcome committee or anything.

Out of curiosity, what type of departure do you think happens in the 21st century? It's the state releasing a detained individual into public. There's not a welcome committee or anything.

I have no idea, I've never known anybody that's been in prison or released IRL. I'd hope they'd have more of a process than "here ya go, see ya later" <clunk> as the gate closes behind them. Maybe ensuring they have someone picking them up or taking them to some kind of post-prison center to get bus passes, info on places to stay, etc. If it's just "here ya go, bye", then we're failing as a society.

I have no idea, I've never known anybody that's been in prison or released IRL. I'd hope they'd have more of a process than "here ya go, see ya later" <clunk> as the gate closes behind them. Maybe ensuring they have someone picking them up or taking them to some kind of post-prison center to get bus passes, info on places to stay, etc. If it's just "here ya go, bye", then we're failing as a society.

Then we are failing as a society.

Compared to the physical conditions inside the OK County jail the release process is quite good.

Then we are failing as a society.

Compared to the physical conditions inside the OK County jail the release process is quite good.

I won't argue with the first sentence, and not just in this area, lol...

However, it seems we're conflating prisons and jails again. Can you (or someone) compare the jail (OK County, for example) release process and the prison (McAlester, for example) release process?

The inmate bring released from prison had a lot of time to make arrangements and I hope there is some kind of pre-release counseling. With jails, if the individual being release is a frequent customer, there are other issues going on that we as society need to try to help with. For actual release, I'm sure there is someone available to drive them to somewhere? The jail certainly want them hanging around there.

And in lies part of the issue that I feel like is just being glossed over. If you're being released from a prison, you do have time to coordinate a pickup/etc and you've had a lot longer sentence to serve to consider what you're going to do.

In a jail situation like this, it's much more (well it's supposed to be) fast paced. They may be coming out of the drunk tank. Maybe it was a lower offence drug possession. But the point is that they do not often have the same amount of time to plan for the release. And yes, they basically are let out the front door and it becomes society's problem to deal with. Am i expecting that they will have someone with a robe standing out front to greet them? Of course not. But I think we can do better than we are right now. And frankly, the new location IS a lot closer and more walkable to a pretty dense residential area (west Del City). I do have relatives that live in that exact neighborhood and yes there are concerns. That's only a couple of blocks folks.

What's why i was thinking what we could do at the least as a society, is provide public transportation to at least get them closer to their destination so they aren't stuck near the jail. Yes, it means the city would have to put aside money to pay for that. It won't be every inmate that utilizes that either. There is a big difference in where they were before and where they will be. My office used to have a storage warehouse across the street from the jail. We would regularly find people sleeping under dock doors or around the grounds behind the building. So yes, people do get released and just "hang out". I can say that while it did concern and sometimes give the staff a little bit of a shock when they would open a garage door for airflow, we rarely had any sort of issue with the individuals. But was it ideal for them to be sleeping off their bender at our doorstep? No. And where it is now, it's walkable to facilities nearby that could help....but the inmates do not often go to those places. In the new location, those places don't exist so they aren't an option at all.

Anyone have any idea how many people actually leave the jail on foot? I'm guessing the vast majority get picked up by friends or relatives.

Anyone have any idea how many people actually leave the jail on foot? I'm guessing the vast majority get picked up by friends or relatives.

In downtown, I doubt its really an issue at all. If there's an issue, its a homeless one, but you don't see a bunch of homeless hanging out in front of the jail so police officers must take them somewhere if they linger. Someone who makes the occasional dumb mistake, probably has options available.

Just because someone 'thinks' it could be a potential problem, doesn't mean there actually it is. Unless there is data to back that up.

With the bus station within pretty easy walking distance, you don't see many folks lingering outside the jail. Really, no matter where you put it, if you gave detainees a bus voucher after release, they're not going to linger.

It's almost like I already said that......

and JN, i guess you didn't read my example of actual data huh?

And in lies part of the issue that I feel like is just being glossed over. If you're being released from a prison, you do have time to coordinate a pickup/etc and you've had a lot longer sentence to serve to consider what you're going to do.

In a jail situation like this, it's much more (well it's supposed to be) fast paced. They may be coming out of the drunk tank. Maybe it was a lower offence drug possession. But the point is that they do not often have the same amount of time to plan for the release. And yes, they basically are let out the front door and it becomes society's problem to deal with. Am i expecting that they will have someone with a robe standing out front to greet them? Of course not. But I think we can do better than we are right now. And frankly, the new location IS a lot closer and more walkable to a pretty dense residential area (west Del City). I do have relatives that live in that exact neighborhood and yes there are concerns. That's only a couple of blocks folks.

What's why i was thinking what we could do at the least as a society, is provide public transportation to at least get them closer to their destination so they aren't stuck near the jail. Yes, it means the city would have to put aside money to pay for that. It won't be every inmate that utilizes that either. There is a big difference in where they were before and where they will be. My office used to have a storage warehouse across the street from the jail. We would regularly find people sleeping under dock doors or around the grounds behind the building. So yes, people do get released and just "hang out". I can say that while it did concern and sometimes give the staff a little bit of a shock when they would open a garage door for airflow, we rarely had any sort of issue with the individuals. But was it ideal for them to be sleeping off their bender at our doorstep? No. And where it is now, it's walkable to facilities nearby that could help....but the inmates do not often go to those places. In the new location, those places don't exist so they aren't an option at all.

Except the detox center isn't actually at the county jail, is it.

Bruh, that was just one example. One example does not make an entire conversation invalid here. But thanks.

https://www.koco.com/article/new-oklahoma-county-jail-location-gentner-drummond/63306558

Kind of wondering about the legality of the AG decision.

https://www.koco.com/article/new-oklahoma-county-jail-location-gentner-drummond/63306558

Kind of wondering about the legality of the AG decision.

basically binding unless/until there is a lawsuit and a decision by a judge .. and even then weight would be given to the AG decision ..

Frankly, i'm glad someone did something to make a call so SOMETHING happens. Either there or moving it on elsewhere. But I agree with Boulder, unless it goes in front of a judge, then the ruling will stand. And if it did go to a judge, they are likely to side with the AG on this one. The city is experiencing the same eminent domain issue that residents experience when a city does it to them. You don't like it, but the bigger fish says "too bad. The greater good needs it and it's going here."

I'm not a fan of the location as I've said above. But we've pissed so much time away on this fight, it's time to move on. What we can do now, is once it's there, work with the city to solve the problems people have and ensure that they don't come to fruition.

Looking like we'll have an RTA vote and a New Jail vote this year: https://www.news9.com/story/67913f8ba5c4fd16acd3b869/citizens-bond-oversight-board-backs-sales-tax-proposal-for-new-okla-county-jail

If it goes to vote I think it will faily miserably. Esp since they want $700mil

Anyone have any idea how many people actually leave the jail on foot? I'm guessing the vast majority get picked up by friends or relatives.

I worked downtown for years and plenty of people would just walk a few blocks to the bus stop. Or walk to the city rescue mission. I’m certain others had people pick them up as well.