Yeah I mean the other location besides the current location that was thrown out there was at almost the tripoint of Canadian, Cleveland, and Oklahoma counties at sw74th and Rockwell. It's absolutely going to run into the same problems. It's just down the street from a bunch of Western Heights schools as well as daycares and tons of new housing.

So sounds like we need to just figure out how we are going to rebuild on the current sight and move on.

Was the denial strictly due to the whining from Del City residents?

Yeah I mean the other location besides the current location that was thrown out there was at almost the tripoint of Canadian, Cleveland, and Oklahoma counties at sw74th and Rockwell. It's absolutely going to run into the same problems. It's just down the street from a bunch of Western Heights schools as well as daycares and tons of new housing.

So sounds like we need to just figure out how we are going to rebuild on the current sight and move on.

it brings it back to where it should have been placed all along NE 36th and air depot .. just north of the landfill .


edit It will also be interesting to see if the county files suit against the city over this zoning vote ..

Was the denial strictly due to the whining from Del City residents?

just reading the comments/ reactions .. I think this might have gotten 4 yes votes if it was done in private ... Stonecipher recused himself because of potential conflict and i think once Stone declared he was voting no .. there was not any path to 5 votes ... so 3 of the other 4 just voted no (why waste any political capital on a failed yes vote) only the mayor voted yes

This is so stupid. Time is wasting. Eventually that money will be gone, and we may never get another county jail. But then, you'll be having some of the same people complaining about it being built in an industrial area complaining about needing a new jail. NIMBYism is a cancer.

Good now build it right where is should have been built in the first place, where the current one sits.

People - we need a new jail
County - ok
People - but not there
County - ok
People - but not there either, we need a new jail
County - ok
People - aren't you listening, not there. We need a new jail before we lose the money
County - we can't build what we need today with the funds available.
People - i dont care, we need a new jail, but not there

World - #facepalm

What a joke. Everyone involved in this is making a mockery of this.

Just rebuild at the current location, geez

The old jail will just get a 400 million paint job before its all said and done. One big smiley face on each side....

Just rebuild at the current location, geez

not feasible ..for multiple reasons including cost .. and not enough room ..

Yeah I mean the other location besides the current location that was thrown out there was at almost the tripoint of Canadian, Cleveland, and Oklahoma counties at sw74th and Rockwell. It's absolutely going to run into the same problems. It's just down the street from a bunch of Western Heights schools as well as daycares and tons of new housing.

So sounds like we need to just figure out how we are going to rebuild on the current sight and move on.

Anything is possible with enough money and willpower. I don't think the county has enough money or willpower to build downtown.

The old jail will just get a 400 million paint job before its all said and done. One big smiley face on each side....

That would be more like one big finger on each side.

Just rebuild at the current location, geez

"Lead architect on the jail project, Curt Parde with HOK, told the council the 71-acre site was ranked the best among 20 sites evaluated on a list of criteria that included cost, available utilities, vehicle access and room for future expansion. Building the new jail at the current downtown location would cost $200 million more, require taking land by eminent domain and take two years longer to complete, Parde said."

https://journalrecord.com/2024/05/why-okc-city-council-rejected-proposed-jail-site/

this would be interesting to watch ..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/what-s-next-after-okc-council-says-no-to-new-county-jail-proposal/ar-BB1mO0lb?ocid=winp2fptaskbar&cvid=c03f2bbb7f0a4ce8b594c7af800832b2&ei=9&sc=shoreline


But Oklahoma County may respond by declaring sovereignty over the site. The move, likely to be contentious, would give the county the authority to authorize a jail's construction there without the city's approval.

this would be interesting to watch ..

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime/what-s-next-after-okc-council-says-no-to-new-county-jail-proposal/ar-BB1mO0lb?ocid=winp2fptaskbar&cvid=c03f2bbb7f0a4ce8b594c7af800832b2&ei=9&sc=shoreline

All of the concerns from residents seem to be centered around when inmates are released. What is so difficult about busing them to a transition hub as referenced when released?

"A transition hub downtown where those arrested could be taken, where jail detainees cued up for court hearings could stay and where people freed from custody could be taken is something he had requested but never really received a response about, he said."

Sounds like there will be legal challenges in any scenario. I'd be shocked if anything happens in the next year or so.

All of the concerns from residents seem to be centered around when inmates are released. What is so difficult about busing them to a transition hub as referenced when released?

"A transition hub downtown where those arrested could be taken, where jail detainees cued up for court hearings could stay and where people freed from custody could be taken is something he had requested but never really received a response about, he said."

Sounds like there will be legal challenges in any scenario. I'd be shocked if anything happens in the next year or so.

not releasing people right away when bail is paid ... and or when they are walked out (by attorneys that have that ability) would create a whole additional lawsuit / issues ... and would also increase operation costs .

needs to be at the current location OR on the civic center campus. There is no need to build a 1 storey jail, make it efficient by building multi-floor. Just resolve the issues with the current building OR build a new highrise at the current or campus site.

I had an idea to revitalize the entire civic center campus, removing the garage and admin buildings, rebuilding admin as a highrise with parking underneath and above ground for several floors on the current garage block, and building a highrise jail connected to the courthouse where the admin bldg currently sits. This would resolve all issues 1) jail moved from current location, which could be sold to developers to offset part of the costs, 2) new jail is connected to courthouse, and designed CORRECTLY as a highrise (see Cook County's if benchmark is needed on building highrise jail), 3) downtown location assures all essential and progressive services/needs are within blocks, 4) new modern admin building and garage beneath, fully utilizing the civic center campus (most probably dont even know/realize OKC has a campus) rather than band-aiding the current low rise monstrosity, and 5) there'd be little-to-no pushback from residences about a jail coming to/near residential communities.

The federal monies was meant for COVID anyway, so no real loss since the "pandemic" is over - fiscal conservatives should give the money back.

needs to be at the current location OR on the civic center campus. There is no need to build a 1 storey jail, make it efficient by building multi-floor. Just resolve the issues with the current building OR build a new highrise at the current or campus site.

I had an idea to revitalize the entire civic center campus, removing the garage and admin buildings, rebuilding admin as a highrise with parking underneath and above ground for several floors on the current garage block, and building a highrise jail connected to the courthouse where the admin bldg currently sits. This would resolve all issues 1) jail moved from current location, which could be sold to developers to offset part of the costs, 2) new jail is connected to courthouse, and designed CORRECTLY as a highrise (see Cook County's if benchmark is needed on building highrise jail), 3) downtown location assures all essential and progressive services/needs are within blocks, 4) new modern admin building and garage beneath, fully utilizing the civic center campus (most probably dont even know/realize OKC has a campus) rather than band-aiding the current low rise monstrosity, and 5) there'd be little-to-no pushback from residences about a jail coming to/near residential communities.

The federal monies was meant for COVID anyway, so no real loss since the "pandemic" is over - fiscal conservatives should give the money back.

high rise jail is not more efficient ... it is less

Oklahoma County is going to end up with the courts in charge spending whatever and where ever they see fit to fix the jail.

Oklahoma County is going to end up with the courts in charge spending whatever and where ever they see fit to fix the jail.

I think I read today that Maricopa County Arizona is over $300 million and counting in their attempts to comply with legal rulings.

high rise jail is not more efficient ... it is less

why, pray tell?

I argue, a highrise jail (highrises in general) are more efficient use of land. Is there evidence that a 1 storey jail spread over acres is more efficient?

why, pray tell?

I argue, a highrise jail (highrises in general) are more efficient use of land. Is there evidence that a 1 storey jail spread over acres is more efficient?

in the presentation and report for this jail ... mutli story jail require more employees .. ect ..

why, pray tell?

I argue, a highrise jail (highrises in general) are more efficient use of land. Is there evidence that a 1 storey jail spread over acres is more efficient?

I tend to agree with HotRod. You could argue that building up costs more in terms of the building support, but building out creates a LOT more exterior cost and maintenance (roof).
Up means you need elevators, but you'll have those even if you have 2 floors. So we're going to have that regardless.
Up means you have more land available for expansion.

So honestly, i think we could just build over the parking lot to the west. Buy up that structures on 1st and 2nd. Set up an agreement with the JDMI warehouse across Kerr for temporary parking needs.
You could build another structure in a rectangle or something that allows for very low land cost. I really don't understand why they didn't just go with this plan in the first place.

18841

The county has a pending deal to buy the land at 1901 E. Grand Blvd. for $5.1 million. It is zoned for heavy industrial use, which allows for a detention facility with receipt of a special use permit.

The council voted 7-1 to deny the permit, with Mayor David Holt casting the only vote in favor of approving the permit.

“I was compelled to vote the way I did by the oath I swore to uphold our city’s ordinances,” Holt said.

“The only question the council was legally empowered to consider was the question of whether the application met the standards for a special permit in a parcel zoned for heavy industrial use,” he said. “The legal merits of the application were clearly met and not a single person even attempted an argument to the contrary.”

Maughan said he expects the Board of County Commissioner will meet in executive session with their attorney at next Wednesday’s meeting to discuss the possibility of declaring the county a sovereign entity that does not need the city’s approval.

The University of Oklahoma operates as such and doesn’t need the city of Norman’s approval, he said.

“I’m convinced regardless of where we go (with the jail) we’re going to have to know if were sovereign or not,” he said.

https://journalrecord.com/2024/05/question-remains-where-to-put-new-jail/

lol so they totally ignored the question at hand to vote no I'm guessing because they didn't want to hurt their reelection chances. Sounds like they will try the sovereign route. Honestly that's probably the only way this gets done in any sort of reasonable time frame. Sure people will be upset but just do it and everyone can move on with their lives instead of this being a topic of contention for the next 2-3 years.

There are multiple operational issues with a multi-story jail, look them up, Yes, it's more "efficient" (as in costs less) because of the land being smaller, but it's not more efficient in the great scheme of things.

There are multiple operational issues with a multi-story jail, look them up, Yes, it's more "efficient" (as in costs less) because of the land being smaller, but it's not more efficient in the great scheme of things.

They also wanted an outdoor rec area. You can't really do that with a multistory jail.

There are multiple operational issues with a multi-story jail, look them up, Yes, it's more "efficient" (as in costs less) because of the land being smaller, but it's not more efficient in the great scheme of things.

I mean the new one was already going to be more than 1 floor. Once you have a second floor, then how its a multistory going to really be any different.

You can absolutely have outdoor rec with a multistory building. You just build it next to it. Going up does not preclude the ability to create a space for that. In fact, with my plan above, it actually has plenty of room to do that if they plan for it. Keep in mind that this is a jail, not a prison. We shouldn't be keeping people here long-term. Yes, they need outside space, but we're not building (and shouldn't be) for life sentences here.

I would argue you can get away with two floors without additional staff or a lot of elevators, three if you reserve the third floor for office use. With two floors you can just have one monitored set of stairs and one or two elevators for ADA compliance.

I have little doubt that in Oklahoma, a shorter building is cheaper. The commissioners are not aiming to build a spread-out jail just to because they hate urban design. If that was the cheaper option, they would go that route. Unless OK county residents want to pony up more money, that type of design is what is going to happen.

I would argue you can get away with two floors without additional staff or a lot of elevators, three if you reserve the third floor for office use. With two floors you can just have one monitored set of stairs and one or two elevators for ADA compliance.

I have little doubt that in Oklahoma, a shorter building is cheaper. The commissioners are not aiming to build a spread-out jail just to because they hate urban design. If that was the cheaper option, they would go that route. Unless OK county residents want to pony up more money, that type of design is what is going to happen.

Stairs can be very dangerous in a jail/prison setting.

Another Oklahoma County jail death.

https://www.news9.com/story/66564d5560ad19ad444c9c20/detainee-dies-while-in-oklahoma-county-detention-center-cause-under-investigation

And another one
https://www.news9.com/story/665d008088c665f764144cd8/oklahoma-county-detainee-found-unresponsive-dies-at-hospital

I tell you what, as a taxpayer I sure do like paying more for the Admin Staff and Board of the OCDC to run it into the ground even deeper than it was when they took over.

Oklahoma County commissioners purchase land for new jail amid claims of collusion (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2024/06/11/oklahoma-county-commissioners-purchase-land-for-proposed-new-jail-mental-health-amid-controversy/74042856007/)

“We just went ahead and purchased the property outright today without a contingency like we had previously offered, and that means that we don’t need to have the landowner currently go forward and get any kind of request from (Oklahoma City) approved,” Maughan said. “This allows us to move forward, we believe, to build the mental health facility and save the ARPA money.”

Sounds like legal drama in the near future.

Oklahoma County commissioners purchase land for new jail amid claims of collusion (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2024/06/11/oklahoma-county-commissioners-purchase-land-for-proposed-new-jail-mental-health-amid-controversy/74042856007/)

“We just went ahead and purchased the property outright today without a contingency like we had previously offered, and that means that we don’t need to have the landowner currently go forward and get any kind of request from (Oklahoma City) approved,” Maughan said. “This allows us to move forward, we believe, to build the mental health facility and save the ARPA money.”

I can't read the article but sounds like this move is a reasonable step. The city council denied the special permit for a detention facility, I'm assuming the mental health facility alone wouldn't fall under that definition and doesn't require a special permit. This is headed for a legal challenge regardless so might as well make use of that federal money while it's still available.

They should move the county courthouse to or near the new site then transportation of prisioners wouldn't be an issue. Heck move the county offices as well.

They should move the county courthouse to or near the new site then transportation of prisioners wouldn't be an issue. Heck move the county offices as well.

If they move anything it will be the criminal courts and they will keep the civil courts downtown.

The county is $300 million short on funding for the new jail.

This whole thing has been a complete cluster.

There is no way they are going to get their act together in time to get the federal funding.

This whole thing has been a complete cluster.

There is no way they are going to get their act together in time to get the federal funding.

If that happens everyone involved with the planning needs to be sacked.

This whole thing has been a complete cluster.

There is no way they are going to get their act together in time to get the federal funding.

Pete, do you know the deadline to encumber the federal funds?

So I believe news broke that this gel was going to be significantly more over budget than originally planned several months ago. What happens to the money that voters approved for a new jail? Well, we just have to apply for more federal funding. I know these are two separate entities, but with the city ever give any of the excess maps money to help finish this thing? As someone who has been behind bar several times I still see the benefit of having a functional jail and not everyone, there are bad people.

Anyone have any predictions as to what is going to happen?

Pete, do you know the deadline to encumber the federal funds?

The funds need to be encumbered by Dec. 31st, which I believe means they have to have a specific plan in place by then.

Who are the knuckle dragging mouth breathers that are responsible for planning and execution of this whole ordeal?

Sounds like they may just have to rebuild on the current site eventually

Sounds like they may just have to rebuild on the current site eventually

i don't think that is likely at all ..

Interesting thing happened recently, one of the county commissioners resigned and moved to Tulsa. She received a job offer and took the job. I wonder if that had anything to do with this??? I would not want to be part of this mess.

Sounds like they may just have to rebuild on the current site eventually

That doesn't fix the money problem. It actually makes it more expensive.

If that happens everyone involved with the planning needs to be sacked.

Everyone should be sacked regardless. Oklahoma County cannot figure this out but throughout the country other counties do. Ridiculous we as tax payers are footing the bill for both a Trust and a Sheriff's Office when it should be under the Sheriff as is the standard. Everything is backward in the county.

i don't think that is likely at all ..
Well that's what should happen and I know we've discussed this before. But if they are having cost issues building out in goonies no way will they be able to afford rebuilding in the current site.

So I believe news broke that this gel was going to be significantly more over budget than originally planned several months ago. What happens to the money that voters approved for a new jail? Well, we just have to apply for more federal funding. I know these are two separate entities, but with the city ever give any of the excess maps money to help finish this thing? As someone who has been behind bar several times I still see the benefit of having a functional jail and not everyone, there are bad people.

Anyone have any predictions as to what is going to happen?

I'd prefer the city not give any money to this debacle until the leadership is completely replaced, at the very least. I agree we need a functional jail, and one that is safe for its residents.

I'd prefer the city not give any money to this debacle until the leadership is completely replaced, at the very least. I agree we need a functional jail, and one that is safe for its residents.

this is not a city project in any way

this is not a city project in any way
No, but you know what they mean. The leadership behind this is a complete and utter failure. You and me have disagreed in the past as to where this should be built, but at this point, they just need to get the goddamn thing built. This is absolutely unacceptable. They have federal money and voters approved more money on top of that to get it built. You would think if they have absolutely no intentions on building on the current site they could at least purchase the property and build something for the time being that could be expanded in the future.

Again, and I hate beating with dead horse, but I support building it on the current site downtown. If they choose not to do that, it seems like that property is worth a significant amount of money. Once they get whatever it is, they can get built. They should be able to get a good amount of money from selling that off. That money could go to expanding the new facility.

This whole thing is the textbook definition of a debacle.

this is not a city project in any way

Right, I was replying to the suggestion of using city money from MAPS. I was implying that even if the city were able to give money, I would be totally against it.

Right, I was replying to the suggestion of using city money from MAPS. I was implying that even if the city were able to give money, I would be totally against it.

ahh .. agreed

No, but you know what they mean. The leadership behind this is a complete and utter failure. You and me have disagreed in the past as to where this should be built, but at this point, they just need to get the goddamn thing built. This is absolutely unacceptable. They have federal money and voters approved more money on top of that to get it built. You would think if they have absolutely no intentions on building on the current site they could at least purchase the property and build something for the time being that could be expanded in the future.

Again, and I hate beating with dead horse, but I support building it on the current site downtown. If they choose not to do that, it seems like that property is worth a significant amount of money. Once they get whatever it is, they can get built. They should be able to get a good amount of money from selling that off. That money could go to expanding the new facility.

This whole thing is the textbook definition of a debacle.

I don't think anyone really considered how much NIMBYism they'd run into on this thing. I don't get it though. I lived in Sycamore (across the street from the present jail) for 5 years and never had a single issue.

Yeah that's a good point. It's strange but at the same time almost kind of understandable but I also recognize it's irrational. Idk

Say you own a nice house without a jail IYBY. Then they build a jail IYBY. What would that do to your property value? Would it go up or down? And how easy would it be to sell that house with a jail IYBY?

I wonder how much the land is worth where the jail currently exists and what the county intentions are for it if they're successful in relocating the jail.