Imagine all of the churches in Edmond having a competition to build the tallest cross in Edmond. That would be fun to watch.

This thread is about the county jail.

https://nondoc.com/2024/01/18/concerns-grow-as-new-oklahomacounty-jail-site-selection-lingers/

While I know nothing about construction, I think I know enough to assume that building on the current site isn't as easy as Jess Eddy and others think it is.

https://nondoc.com/2024/01/18/concerns-grow-as-new-oklahomacounty-jail-site-selection-lingers/

While I know nothing about construction, I think I know enough to assume that building on the current site isn't as easy as Jess Eddy and others think it is.

Just to be clear, he isn't talking about building it exactly where the current jail is....

> “I think we need to do the current jail site,” Eddy told commissioners Friday. “It’s bewildering to me that people say it needs to be a tower. I spoke to the property owner of that large plot north of the jail. He hadn’t been approached but is willing to sell at fair market value. Doesn’t need to make a profit. When I see those kinds of things happening like people saying a tower is necessary, I am befuddled when David L. Moss is two stories and 2,000 beds on 19 acres.”> The present jail site sits on about eight acres. Eddy said about 13 acres would be required to build a two-story jail there. That means the county would be required to purchase land around the jail to create the necessary space. Eddy said he believes it’s possible to acquire up to 36 acres in that part of downtown OKC to build the jail, which would make it closer to the Oklahoma County Courthouse and more centrally located in the population center.


It is also strange that all of the commissioners against using the current jail site seem to just go back to the "there are some major issues" with choosing that site. I don't really know why they dont list out the "major issues" or disclose the " huge matrix of trying to make this Rubik’s Cube work as best we can"

Also, this is interesting if true at all:
“It’s been communicated to me clearly that [a prominent] developer, is the big rich developer in this community who has told everybody behind the scenes, ‘Hell no I want to develop that area,'” Eddy said during Friday’s meeting. “So that’s why the current site hasn’t been vetted or looked at because that is the powerful developer.”

But "District 2 Commissioner Brian Maughan said he hasn’t been warned off the current site by developers"

I read that article today as well and made me think something shady is going on. I imagine there it wouldn’t be the easiest to build near the current jail, but it is super strange that the owner of adjacent property is willing to sale and hasn’t been contacted.

Then you read about a developer and it’s hard not to think something nefarious is going on. Especially when they are wanting to build the jail on the outskirts of the county. Doesn’t pass the smell test as they say.

^

I'm sure it's because all the powers that be in OKC want the jail moved out of downtown.

So stupid to put in in the farthest corner of the county.

So stupid to put in in the farthest corner of the county.

makes a ton of sense actually .... just like Cleveland county did with their jail ..

makes a ton of sense actually .... just like Cleveland county did with their jail ..

wait i'm confused... isn't the Cleveland County Jail in Norman at like Franklin and Flood?

wait i'm confused... isn't the Cleveland County Jail in Norman at like Franklin and Flood?

right they moved it to that location from downtown norman

right they moved it to that location from downtown norman

i wouldn't say moving it to a location that basically puts it in the middle of the two largest populated areas in the county is the equivalent of moving the Oklahoma County Jail to a remote corner.

i think the equivalent would have been in the Cleveland County Jail was moved to say Slaughterville. having your County Jail in an location that is basically the average population center for the county is a smart move. that is what Cleveland County Did, that is what Oklahoma County is trying to go from

i wouldn't say moving it to a location that basically puts it in the middle of the two largest populated areas in the county is the equivalent of moving the Oklahoma County Jail to a remote corner.

i think the equivalent would have been in the Cleveland County Jail was moved to say Slaughterville. having your County Jail in an location that is basically the average population center for the county is a smart move. that is what Cleveland County Did, that is what Oklahoma County is trying to go from

having it near moore is not relevant in any way ... the transit is between the jail and the county courthouse ... which is in down town Norman .. they moved it to an industrial area .. with rail road tracts to the east ..

it is a 14 min drive between the 2 .

Transit is also from wherever the arrest occurs to the county jail ..

Those wanting to keep Oklahoma County's jail in downtown Oklahoma City were reminded Monday night to draw strength from past struggles to achieve equality.

Marilyn Luper Hildreth, Clara Luper's daughter, and the Rev. John A. Reed told a standing-room-only crowd their past struggles are not unlike the ones Oklahoma County residents living within marginalized communities face today as county officials debate where to build the new jail.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2024/01/31/oklahoma-county-jail-location-leaders-marilyn-luper-hildreth-john-reed-speak-out/72311945007/[

We're not gonna take it.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2024/01/31/oklahoma-county-jail-location-leaders-marilyn-luper-hildreth-john-reed-speak-out/72311945007/[

We're not gonna take it.

what a false narrative and a joke .. the NE side has actually been largely EXCLUDED from the new site search ... and yet there is still this ... (and lets be clear from at least 2 on the council this is not really about the new jail .. it is more like why have a jail at all)

The amount on whining about this topic is fairly ridiculous. The location of the jail is not an attack on marginalized communities. This level of complaining can only happen in the first world. You can find plenty of examples of actual oppression of marginalized communities, making this into something it is not does not help solve the problem. The city has a ton of industrial sites, pick one with good road access that is reasonably centrally located and get over it already. Personally, I really liked the airport location, but that was stupidly nixed.

I have always said the old Pull-A-Apart site would be perfect. But I guess will old car juice leaking in the ground for decades its prob contaminated, making it unlivable.

And the whole policy about it needing to be within a 15 minute drive to the courthouse is absurd. I know for a fact a lot of hearings are done now virtually over Zoom, or whatever software they use.

what a false narrative and a joke .. the NE side has actually been largely EXCLUDED from the new site search ... and yet there is still this ... (and lets be clear from at least 2 on the council this is not really about the new jail .. it is more like why have a jail at all)

I missed when the Reno and MLK site was taken off of the list for tentative locations of the new jail. If it has then you are 100% correct.

I missed when the Reno and MLK site was taken off of the list for tentative locations of the new jail. If it has then you are 100% correct.

reno and MLK is surrounded by truck stops, industrial facility's and a railroad track to the north .. (with more industrial to the north of the rr tracks)

And Reno and mlk is on the east side. All you have to do is go over a bridge and it’s residential and a school along with multiple churches. It’s only 4 blocks north until you hit residential in the east side and 6 blocks to a school. Now maybe it’s been taken off the list of potential locations and I didn’t see it.

The amount on whining about this topic is fairly ridiculous. The location of the jail is not an attack on marginalized communities. This level of complaining can only happen in the first world. You can find plenty of examples of actual oppression of marginalized communities, making this into something it is not does not help solve the problem. The city has a ton of industrial sites, pick one with good road access that is reasonably centrally located and get over it already. Personally, I really liked the airport location, but that was stupidly nixed.

For security reasons, it shouldn't be far away from the courthouse. The airport location, I think was too far. There is plenty of land downtown to build. Costs will be greater, but it is central county infrastructure, so it should be centrally located and close to downtown. It is better when the prisoners can be brought quickly to the courthouse where there are a ton of resources should there be a problem with the transportation. The lawyers need convenient access to their clients.

I lived across the street (at Sycamore) from the jail for 5 years. Aside from the fact that it was always convenient when a friend needed bail, it was never a problem.

How about where the old Purina plant was? It's not an ideal development for that plot of land, but it would be downtown. Though, I would GREATLY prefer a major mixed use development with miid rises at Purina.

How about where the old Purina plant was? It's not an ideal development for that plot of land, but it would be downtown. Though, I would GREATLY prefer a major mixed use development with miid rises at Purina.

that site is not close to big enough .. IIRC they want 70 acres min

And the whole policy about it needing to be within a 15 minute drive to the courthouse is absurd. I know for a fact a lot of hearings are done now virtually over Zoom, or whatever software they use.

I imagine the public defenders who spend more time at that jail than anyone would be hurt the most if they had to drive. You can't meet a client over Zoom at the jail. Also, a lot of hearings are not done virtually and can't be. Trials and pleas and preliminary hearings require the physical presence of the accused.

Let's say the jail moves out to Harrah--a clean half hour from the courthouse and the prisoners being tranpsorted are some high risk MS-13 or Irish mob members. Are you volunteering to drive that bus?

Maybe it was different during COVID. But I know when I went to court in Cleveland county, the judge was doing a lot of hearings over Zoom.

NPR actually did a story about this not long ago. The trend does seem to be to do the majority of these smaller things remotely. It's FAR less expensive because you dont need extra security or transport. I would expect this trend to only continue. And when a move is made, it's an opportunity to purpose-build a facility for that use instead of just taking over a room that wasn't intended for it.

https://nondoc.com/2024/02/19/del-city-threatens-lawsuit-oklahoma-county-jail-site-sue-ann-arnall-resigns-trust/

One step forward, 15 steps back.

https://nondoc.com/2024/02/19/del-city-threatens-lawsuit-oklahoma-county-jail-site-sue-ann-arnall-resigns-trust/

One step forward, 15 steps back.

What is Del City suing for? Article doesnt say what their complaint even is?

Unsurprisingly, someone is quoted saying property values will decrease in Del City. If thats the case, then someone should be able to show how property values around the current jail have decreased or havent kept up with other downtown properties. But they cant because it hasnt. No one will think twice about this jail once its built, no matter where it goes. Just as no one really thinks about the existing one. I mean, it has a host of issues, including security and overcrowding yet theres all kinds of investment and increasing property values in the blocks surrounding it. And thats probably why it shouldnt be rebuilt in the same spot, they will be spending limited funding on acquiring many privately held and expensive properties.

The St. Louis County jail is right in the middle of downtown Clayton and there are condos that are literally $2 million within a couple of blocks. Every residence within 5 minutes of that building is easily over $500,000. And new buildings are going up right and left. I do think one reason why property values are not affected is that the building does not look like a jail. Literally it looks exactly like all the office buildings surrounding it. My parents had driven by it for years and even walked by it without processing exactly what it was until I finally pointed out to them what it was.

Housing values do not have to automatically decrease around a jail. But I do think that an institutional-looking, low slung building on a lot of land that is surrounded by high fencing etc will be more likely to visually depress a community than what has currently been the case in Oklahoma County.

https://nondoc.com/2024/02/19/del-city-threatens-lawsuit-oklahoma-county-jail-site-sue-ann-arnall-resigns-trust/

One step forward, 15 steps back.

the the NE okc people are going to protest over a site selection that is NOT in NE okc ???

and after looking at this site it is separated from del city and the neighborhood by INDUSTRIAL zoning ..... lol they have nothing to complain about ..



I think the Jail should be moved to NEOKC (36th and airdepot north of the land fill on okc/county land)

but this is not a bad option ..

the the NE okc people are going to protest over a site selection that is NOT in NE okc ???

and after looking at this site it is separated from del city and the neighborhood by INDUSTRIAL zoning ..... lol they have nothing to complain about ..



I think the Jail should be moved to NEOKC (36th and airdepot north of the land fill on okc/county land)

but this is not a bad option ..

NEOKC is not protesting the Del City site. They are protesting a site at NE 23rd and Coltrane that was added to the list.

NEOKC Protest of New Potential Jail Site (https://freepressokc.com/ne-oklahoma-city-leaders-to-march-against-ne-jail-site-proposal-wednesday-morning/)

NEOKC is not protesting the Del City site. They are protesting a site at NE 23rd and Coltrane that was added to the list.

NEOKC Protest of New Potential Jail Site (https://freepressokc.com/ne-oklahoma-city-leaders-to-march-against-ne-jail-site-proposal-wednesday-morning/)

Watching the livestream now. People from the NE side and Del City are standing up in unity to not have it either community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwoBuu33VmM

Watching the livestream now. People from the NE side and Del City are standing up in unity to not have it either community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwoBuu33VmM

Thanks for the link!

this is a good meeting.

Watching the livestream now. People from the NE side and Del City are standing up in unity to not have it either community.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwoBuu33VmM

the site del city is protesting is

1. NOT in del city

2. has an industrial zoned buffer (with active businesses) between the site and Del city ..

2. has an industrial zoned buffer (with active businesses) between the site and Del city ..

I mean, technically yes, but it is only ~800 feet to people's homes. I don't think their multiple concerns are assuaged by a narrow strip of businesses between their neighborhood and the jail.

Oh do I love public comments! Always entertaining.

I mean, technically yes, but it is only ~800 feet to people's homes. I don't think their multiple concerns are assuaged by a narrow strip of businesses between their neighborhood and the jail.

the industrial active zoning with active business does more to hurt their property's value then this jail will

Mark Faulk..........

Larry Hopper--arguing that the jail needs to be kept downtown--just said something along the lines of "others will sell because no one wants to own property next to a jail" when referring to a plot of land near the Farmers Market.

I understand the point of public comment, but please, understand the argument you are trying to make before making it.

larry is not the sharpest knife in the drawer

So I'm not sure if this was already posted, but looks like the commissioners picked the Grand location?

https://nondoc.com/2024/02/21/despite-del-city-threat-grand-boulevard-site-picked-oklahoma-county-jail/

yep..

I live not too far from this site right down 15th (in MWC). I have many more family members who live even closer to this site. I don't foresee this being as big of a problem as it is being made out to be. It's tucked in an area that is very seldomly used minus maybe people who work in the immediate vicinity.

I don't really know what grounds Del City thinks they have to sue on, but i'm sure a lawyer will thank them for the taxpayer money.

Attempting to go through with a baseless lawsuit IMO is such a waste as they don't even seem to have enough to plow their roads in the winter.

The site on Grand is and has always been the chosen site. This was nothing more than pomp and circumstance to appear as if a well executed selection process took place. The people in this area don’t have the time, money or media influence to fight it. If they do they can make them look like terrible people for complaining about it. Jails are necessary places as long they are not in the nice parts of town. It’s very clear the county, city and state turn a blind eye to SE OKC. They are always happy to treat it like a step child.

There will be little talk of the jail in 5 years. It will be barely noticeable unless you become a resident at that jail. People don't get out of Jail and immediately go out and commit another crime in the same neighborhood. The ones with serious crimes get convicted and go to prison.

I would even go as far to say that all of the dispensaries as a collective whole are a bigger nuisance than a jail.

What lawsuit can the city of Del City even bring? I imagine they have discussed it somewhere.

The site on Grand is and has always been the chosen site. This was nothing more than pomp and circumstance to appear as if a well executed selection process took place. The people in this area don’t have the time, money or media influence to fight it. If they do they can make them look like terrible people for complaining about it. Jails are necessary places as long they are not in the nice parts of town. It’s very clear the county, city and state turn a blind eye to SE OKC. They are always happy to treat it like a step child.

lol they actually chose the site at the airport and signed an LOI to buy/lease it ... so you are not correct ..

What lawsuit can the city of Del City even bring? I imagine they have discussed it somewhere.

I think I read Del City hasn't hired a lawyer yet. Just voted to spend up to $150,000 on the effort.

I'm guessing a good attorney will tell then the low odds of success upfront.

What lawsuit can the city of Del City even bring? I imagine they have discussed it somewhere.

I think I read Del City hasn't hired a lawyer yet. Just voted to spend up to $150,000 on the effort.

I'm guessing a good attorney will tell then the low odds of success upfront.

I don't really know the area but looking at aerial shots it's pretty remote east of Grand. As long as they set it back amongst those abandond cul de sac's, I don't understand the problem. We've had it in our back yard for years (decades?).

I don't really know the area but looking at aerial shots it's pretty remote east of Grand. As long as they set it back amongst those abandond cul de sac's, I don't understand the problem. We've had it in our back yard for years (decades?).

Remote?

https://i.imgur.com/tQeyMKI.jpeg

I think they meant WEST of grand

I think they meant WEST of grand

@BoulderSooner Yes, that's what I meant. West....

But thank you 'LocoAko' for proving a moot point.

The area is getting OKANA a little bit to the West. The area is still ending up with a net positive overall. Plus, since the jail is only two stories those industrial buildings will do a good job of blocking the view.

This is all assuming that the city will re-zone the land too. It's entirely possible that they do not do that and we suddenly do not have a site again.

Boulder, they may have wanted to use the airport site, but it was never more than exploration. The airport trust flat refused the terms so it was never "officially" the site.
As for Navy's comment, this was the 3rd location that was seriously considered, and they did say that they are continuing to look at other options in case OKC won't rezone. So i'm not sure how it's the city's responsibility to create economic interest in the area here. No more than it is for them south of the river. That would be regentrification, and would eventually kill the culture created there. So do you want that or are you just frustrated about things and want to voice it?

Is there really a strong risk the city doesn't rezone or is that just an outside possibility? Given the city will be the primary user of it and the old site will probably be redeveloped, I don't think city leadership wants to be the one to hold it up and possibly lose the federal funding.

Is there really a strong risk the city doesn't rezone or is that just an outside possibility? Given the city will be the primary user of it and the old site will probably be redeveloped, I don't think city leadership wants to be the one to hold it up and possibly lose the federal funding.

about 0 possibility ..