Random question, but I am going to ask it anyways: How much do you think the location will be swayed by what is happening around the existing jail currently from a development standpoint?

the decision to move it away from down town has pretty much already been made

We have already lost one of the old grand courthouses when the old courthouse burned and was torn down. I would agree that the County building is a dump but the courthouse has great bones and is a beautiful building that would be a great loss to tear down. Not to mention it is listed on the National Register of Historic Places https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_County_Courthouse

Here is the previous old courthouse which was located over near Main and Dewey where the holiday inn was built https://www.pinterest.com/pin/89086898857580700/

Agree. County courthouse and offices need to stay where they are. Losing all those employees would be massively detrimental to downtown and the main courthouse building is awesome.

couldn't agree more with Panda that it should be built at the current OK County parking garage. Yes, build a mid-highrise detention center there, and redevelop the entire block to create a OK County Government "civic center". Retain the OK County Courthouse, demo the current OK County admin building and garage, redevelop with underground parking and access to the courthouse, rebuild the OK County Admin building as a mid/high rise and the detention center on top of the parking. Probably also a good idea to build a Sheriff's building; just imagine the 4 highrise/midrise (3 modern, 1 historic) buildings with underground parking, with park like plazas intermixed.

THIS would serve the county for years to come, retain presence in the heart of the city, get rid of obselete building and parking, and create another civic campus. People arguing that land is too valuable in downtown, I agree - but nothing else is proposed for the current OK County lands and nothing will be. It will remain county land and therefore since it's in the center of the 'now' major city, it should go vertical. Also, by redeveloping the main campus, we could then properly sell of the OK County jail current location; however, I hope there's a way to preserve the highrise and developers build around it.

I think midtowner can add color to this, but I think judges prefer to have arrangments and proceedings in person for a variety of reasons, not to mention the fact that custody could be taken if the defendant is in-person vs. on zoom or ms teams. ...

However, I agree that civil matters could be mostly virtual, criminal? - should be in-person.

Yep. It would easily be one of the best things the county ever did.

They chose the 192-acre airport location according to The Oklahoman.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/10/02/oklahoma-county-jail-new-building-will-rogers-airport/71033130007/

Fine with me. If we want people to live downtown, this will help.

They chose the 192-acre airport location according to The Oklahoman.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/10/02/oklahoma-county-jail-new-building-will-rogers-airport/71033130007/

great location

Yeah I feel like this is a good option. But did you catch that this isn't owned land yet? Was this parcel one that was offered up? I think the one near Crooked Oak would have been equally good and actually been a better redevelopment of that vacant land that had been cleared.

Honestly, neither location is terrible. Both have good highway access so transport can be taken care of with minimal street impact. What i'm curious of, is the design. Will it be vertical? With the path so near the airport, i'm not sure if a height restriction is in play, but there isn't room in 200 acres, to spread it out if it's not at least a 6-10 level structure (IMHO).

Fine with me. If we want people to live downtown, this will help.

Im ok with the move and asthetically it will clean up west downtown but this has had no effect on people moving downtown. They just built a big apartment complex right next to it.

Yeah I feel like this is a good option. But did you catch that this isn't owned land yet? Was this parcel one that was offered up? I think the one near Crooked Oak would have been equally good and actually been a better redevelopment of that vacant land that had been cleared.

Honestly, neither location is terrible. Both have good highway access so transport can be taken care of with minimal street impact. What i'm curious of, is the design. Will it be vertical? With the path so near the airport, i'm not sure if a height restriction is in play, but there isn't room in 200 acres, to spread it out if it's not at least a 6-10 level structure (IMHO).

I am interested as well but my understanding (while limited) is that it will be a 1 story building.

The more I think about it and talk to people, this was always gonna be the location and all of it was a ruse.

This is the property -- just west of the rental car facility.

The City of OKC owns all of it.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/jail100223a.jpg

This is the property -- just west of the rental car facility.

The City of OKC owns all of it.

So the acquisition costs are just City to County?

So the acquisition costs are just City to County?

Yes, but they have to negotiate a price.

Maybe they'll do a land swap where the City gets the old jail site and then puts out an RFP for development. Great site for housing.

Yes, but they have to negotiate a price.

Maybe they'll do a land swap where the City gets the old jail site and then puts out an RFP for development. Great site for housing.

i think that is very very likely ...

i think that is very very likely ...

That would pretty much be the ideal outcome, IMO.

That would pretty much be the ideal outcome, IMO.

okc gave that land to the county for the jail .. in 88 .. but i don't know what those terms were

It would be great if the property downtown gets converted to a mid-rise living or a mixed use development.

It's kind of ironic. I pass by that location just about every day on my way home from work and wonder if anything will ever be developed there or if it's out of the question because of the airport. Personally, I like the location. It's not too close to any residential area or schools. It's all commercial and industrial land surrounding it. Is there any time line we're looking at for it's development?

It would be great if the property downtown gets converted to a mid-rise living or a mixed use development.

a full tear down would be likely

The County will want to move ASAP because of the ongoing issues and related reliability of the existing facility.

OTOH, it will take time to draw up plans, get them approved, and then complete construction.


I'd say best-case would be 3 years; more likely 5+.


I wonder if the bail bond places will follow the jail or stay put near the police station and courts?

It would be great if the property downtown gets converted to a mid-rise living or a mixed use development.

Hell no. I want to see that building be imploded like Hotel Black was.

The County will want to move ASAP because of the ongoing issues and related reliability of the existing facility.

OTOH, it will take time to draw up plans, get them approved, and then complete construction.


I'd say best-case would be 3 years; more likely 5+.


I wonder if the bail bond places will follow the jail or stay put near the police station and courts?

Isn't there some Federal stimulus or Covid money that has to be spent in the next 2-3 years, and that is a big reason for the urgency?

Press release:

Note what is being discussed is a ground lease, not a purchase.

*********

Response to Oklahoma County Commissioners meeting on the new proposed jail location at Will Rogers World Airport

(Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) – “The Airport provided the County with two parcels for lease for the proposed project with project with several contingencies that would need to be addressed, such as, the requirement of the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) review and compliance, a review of the zoning compatibility, and the requirement for a Fair Market Value lease rate,” said Jeff Mulder, Department of Airports Director. “These issues are under review and have not been resolved at this time.”

Isn't there some Federal stimulus or Covid money that has to be spent in the next 2-3 years, and that is a big reason for the urgency?

From the Oklahoman:


Commissioners said the new $300 million building won't be a tower and the site is big enough to allow diversion partners to operate there, including a behavioral health center being paid for using $40 million of American Rescue Plan Act funds.

The act requires the health center be designed by the end of 2024 and built by the end of 2026 to avoid forfeiting those dollars.

Commissioner Myles Davidson said this week's site selection was important to keeping the county on track to meet those timeline requirements.

This facility is designed to hold 1,800 inmates.

Hell no. I want to see that building be imploded like Hotel Black was.

This... the building was flawed to begin with....

Press release:

Note what is being discussed is a ground lease, not a purchase.

*********

Response to Oklahoma County Commissioners meeting on the new proposed jail location at Will Rogers World Airport

(Oklahoma City, Oklahoma) – “The Airport provided the County with two parcels for lease for the proposed project with project with several contingencies that would need to be addressed, such as, the requirement of the Federal Aviation Administration’s (FAA) review and compliance, a review of the zoning compatibility, and the requirement for a Fair Market Value lease rate,” said Jeff Mulder, Department of Airports Director. “These issues are under review and have not been resolved at this time.”

This is the thing that I'm wondering about. It's extremely inefficient to make a 1 or 2 story sprawling jail. The expense for all the exterior materials alone, adds up fast. As long as the FAA gives some guidance, i think we're going to be in a good spot. And i think we could be looking at 3-4 floors maybe? There are several structures in the direct area of this height and that's still well below any sort of flight path height.

If they do give it at least a few floors, it also means there's room to do something in the future. Expansion or additional services, etc.

Yes, but they have to negotiate a price.

Maybe they'll do a land swap where the City gets the old jail site and then puts out an RFP for development. Great site for housing.

That seems like the perfect solution.

Yes, but they have to negotiate a price.

Maybe they'll do a land swap where the City gets the old jail site and then puts out an RFP for development. Great site for housing.

No doubt a great spot for housing. It’s served that purpose for years…though hopefully future residents at the site won’t be dying to leave.

This is the thing that I'm wondering about. It's extremely inefficient to make a 1 or 2 story sprawling jail. The expense for all the exterior materials alone, adds up fast. As long as the FAA gives some guidance, i think we're going to be in a good spot. And i think we could be looking at 3-4 floors maybe? There are several structures in the direct area of this height and that's still well below any sort of flight path height.

If they do give it at least a few floors, it also means there's room to do something in the future. Expansion or additional services, etc.

The Federal Transfer facility on the other side of Mike Monroney is 7 floors tall. Just an idea on what was allowed as height goes.

No doubt a great spot for housing. It’s served that purpose for years…though hopefully future residents at the site won’t be dying to leave.

Savage.

Hell no. I want to see that building be imploded like Hotel Black was.

a full tear down would be likely

I should elaborate, a full teardown would be nice. I just don't want to see an empty lot/crater where the jail was and have it turned into some gargantuan parking complex.

Tear it down, bring in some priests and shamans to exorcise any ghosts/demons there, sell it on the condition that anyone who buys/develops it has to erect a building at least as tall as the previous building.

The current jail should be torn down and be given the Uhaul parking lot treatment but even better.

The Federal Transfer facility on the other side of Mike Monroney is 7 floors tall. Just an idea on what was allowed as height goes.

Right but its very much to the side of any potential flight path. This one is a little more "in the way". Honestly, i don't see that there's any issue so I think it's just a matter of paperwork getting done.

Oklahoma County Commissioner Myles Davidson expects preliminary designs within weeks that will propose a cutting-edge new jail capable of providing a safer place for both detainees and staff.

But will that jail be able to meet the needs of the county — present and future? Not if construction estimates hold true.

The county will only be able to afford a jail half as big as it needs if per-bed construction costs hit estimates of between $225,000 and $250,000. Oklahoma County will only be able to afford to build a jail with 1,200 beds because of projected population increases and considering the county's per-capita incarceration rate, Davidson said.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/10/22/oklahoma-county-jail-can-county-afford-size-building-needed/70795449007/

Let's hope they aren't short-sighted enough to build something that doesn't have room to grow. You build a sprawling single story monster, you dont have any land to go up with. Build multi-story, and you can leave land available for growth. It's not as though OK Count is suddenly going to stop needing more room here.

Let's hope they aren't short-sighted enough to build something that doesn't have room to grow. You build a sprawling single story monster, you dont have any land to go up with. Build multi-story, and you can leave land available for growth. It's not as though OK Count is suddenly going to stop needing more room here.

there is tons of land at the proposed location

Yeah but if you've ever seen some of the facilities out in the world that are only 1 floor, they sprawl like nobody's business. They can eat up a couple hundred acres and not break a sweat. Think about how much land the current jail would take up if each of those floors was just one level on the ground.

It sounds like the preferred site near the airport has gone sideways:

Oklahoma County's plan to land new jail near airport running out of runway as issues remain (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/10/27/city-response-on-airport-jail-location-leaves-county-stuck-on-taxiway/71348780007/)


it could be one of four sites — the one the county has offered to buy, the second location near Will Rogers, the county jail's current location or a 71-acre property located at 1901 E Grand Blvd.

Good hopefully they start over and reconsider downtown.

I bet they soon pivot to the Grand Blvd. location.

But they have to do something fast or risk losing a big chunk of federal dollars.

So pretty much zero chance they choose downtown?

Should be downtown. Just design the highrise better, and use the lands the rebuilt admin building.

It sounds like the preferred site near the airport has gone sideways:

Oklahoma County's plan to land new jail near airport running out of runway as issues remain (https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/10/27/city-response-on-airport-jail-location-leaves-county-stuck-on-taxiway/71348780007/)

Im really not surprised. The Lease vs Own issue was a pretty big stumbling block. Now all of our thoughts regarding height, well simply won't be a thing. It will be interesting to see how this one shakes down. There will be some NIMBY no matter where it goes.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/2023/11/22/oklahoma-county-jail-location-near-will-rogers-airport-up-in-the-air/71660108007/

Highlights:
The airport site the county has offered to buy remains a possibility, provided the Federal Aviation Administration agrees to allow the city to pursue that deal and provided the city and county can agree on a price, Maughan said.

Plus, he said senior city staff members are working with Steve Mason, chairman of Oklahoma County's Citizens Bond Advisory Oversight Board, the new jail's architect and other county officials to evaluate other potential locations, including these still officially on the county's list:

71 acres of land located at 1901 E Grand Boulevard and offered for sale to the county by Willowbrook Investments LLC and Garrett & Company Resources LLC for $5.14 million.
89 acres of land located at NE 10 and Interstate 35 and offered for sale for an undisclosed amount by Oklahoma's Commissioners of the Land Office and Oklahoma City's Water Trust.
The existing jail site located at 201 N Shartel Ave.

It is unlikely Oklahoma County would reopen a process it already went through that gave private land owners chances to offer properties to it for use as a jail location, Maughan said Tuesday.

"We just don't have the time."

Honestly, while the airport land made sense to me, the fact that they won't sell the land i think makes this a deal killer. The airport is working in their best interests with their job in mind....what's the best thing for the airport? Selling the land and losing a revenue stream that they will not get back, well it's not good business. They either need to make money on it, or they will pass, and that's their job to make that call.

With that in mind, i think it's now the job of the jail group to pick one of the other locations and get the ball rolling. As they say, time is running out and we're behind here. We can't create a design until we have the land, and I'm afraid that we're going to be so short on time, we're going to get a crappily thought out facility with crappy construction and end up in the same boat because we took too long to figure the crap out. Being stuck with another pile of crap for the next 30 years shouldn't be an option here.

https://youtu.be/1re-5xnzMrc?si=yY_7SQr4Xe24UweP

It might end up downtown near the current location. It honesty is the best spot even though the city obviously wants to hide stuff like this near the airport where it would be much less accessible. It’s not a bad thing to have a jail downtown near court houses. It’s normal.

The current site of the county jail IMO proposes the least number of challenges. Make a decision and move forward with this project.

The current site of the county jail IMO proposes the least number of challenges. Make a decision and move forward with this project.

I lived across the street from the County Jail for five years. I never had a single issue with it. The jail could help released prisoners to get out of the area by providing a free bus pass and locating a bus stop outside of the jail. If you look at other larger cities, there can be a lot of efficiencies realized by relocating the criminal courts and jail to an all-in-one judicial complex. We had that with the old county courthouse until the 90s as the county jail was on the upper floors. You wouldn't have security issues with prisoner transport and having judicial and attorneys in the same facility would allow better access for everyone.

And we haven't expanded the courthouse except by one judge since the thing was built (and that is being done this year, they're converting the judicial law library to a courtroom on 3). How much has our population expanded?

I have been advocating for a redesign of the Oklahoma County lands to demolish and rebuild the County Office Building and garage, and build the justice complex all one same lands next to the County Courthouse. In this configuration, everything is co-located and the new hirises would add to the city skyline and density. This configuration is somewhat similar to the King County government complex in Seattle.

One idea could be to sell the current lands of the admin building and garage to developers and build a new admin and justice complex on the current site of the jail. This would add highrises to the west side of downtown while also utilizing existing lands AND ca$hing in on the low-rise existing complex. Yes this would be away from the courthouse but it is no further away than it currently is.

Anyway, I think nonetheless the jail or justice center should be downtown and should be a highrise - just benchmark agencies in other major cities this time and be sure there's mental health and medical facilities incorporated, not just cells.

Yup, i've been saying the same thing. The County offices are a complete dump. The whole complex needs a good dozer job.

The courthouse could use a renovation, but please don't demolish it. It's an historic building which just needs a little TLC.. or a lot really, but it's worth it.

It's an embarassment right now. Compared to the municipal courthouse, it's kind of a dump--but it could serve easily for another century as the hub for our civil and domestic dockets.

The criminal courts should be colocated with the jail. This would eliminate all of the costs, I saw it will cost $750K just this year to transport inmates to and from the jail, about 5 blocks, surely that will be millions of dollars if the jail moves away from downtown. It would also eliminate the security risks inherent with moving inmates in lightly protected vans on city streets for everal miles.

As far as the county offices go, the D.A. just moved out of the 5th floor where they've probably been for around 40-50 years to Leadership Square.

^^^ demolish that horrid parking structure across the street and build the jail there. The right across the street to the NW directly across from OKC MOA there’s a lot that could be developed into a massive parking structure that you could add retail to the bottom levels and a tunnel to the courthouse. Bonus points if they can connect it to the underground system to get people off streets in inclement weather. So much opportunity here.

But I agree with you remodel the courthouse don’t tear it down.

As far as the county offices go, the D.A. just moved out of the 5th floor where they've probably been for around 40-50 years to Leadership Square.

The story we heard is that there was roof issues and mold found. The Public Defenders office moved out of six so it could be remediated and they just moved back this last year. Not sure how much if any extended to 5 where the DAs office was located and whether it was a factor in the move The scuttlebutt we have heard so take it for what it is worth is that the move to leadership is short term (like 2 years)with a goal to move into Investors capital building.

totally agree not to tear down the county courthouse building. It is one of the original OKC civic center buildings from the WPS era - we should renovate it but not tear it down. I also agree with Midtowner that we should co-locate all jail facilities (jail, criminal court, legal services, mental health and medical support, etc) all in the new highrise justice center that should be located IMO on the existing OK County campus (as Panda mentions - build it at the garage). Repeat - I also recommend tear down the admin building while we're at it and rebuild as a proper 12+ floor highrise.

Oklahoma County should do the right thing, modernize your campus and keep facilities together. Sell the current jail lands and building, use the proceeds and the bond moneys to redevelop the campus.

That really would be the best deal. That garage sucks anyways.

totally agree not to tear down the county courthouse building. It is one of the original OKC civic center buildings from the WPS era - we should renovate it but not tear it down. I also agree with Midtowner that we should co-locate all jail facilities (jail, criminal court, legal services, mental health and medical support, etc) all in the new highrise justice center that should be located IMO on the existing OK County campus (as Panda mentions - build it at the garage). Repeat - I also recommend tear down the admin building while we're at it and rebuild as a proper 12+ floor highrise.

Oklahoma County should do the right thing, modernize your campus and keep facilities together. Sell the current jail lands and building, use the proceeds and the bond moneys to redevelop the campus.

Hot Rod, I would trust you to make design decisions for every corner of OKC. Hoping ideas like yours get heard more.