Is this the final design?

Yes, it is the final Master Plan.



City of Oklahoma City | Public Information & Marketing (http://www.okc.gov/maps3/)

It is the draft master plan

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/773700_10151196717586636_2090251870_o.jpg

Diggyba, a preview? More to come before tomorrow evening?

Sneak peek at plans for MAPS3 downtown park | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4 (http://kfor.com/2013/01/23/sneak-peak-at-plans-for-maps3-downtown-park/)

Sneak peek at plans for MAPS3 downtown park | KFOR.com ? Oklahoma City News & Weather from KFOR Television, Oklahoma's News Channel 4 (http://kfor.com/2013/01/23/sneak-peak-at-plans-for-maps3-downtown-park/)

Paseofreak, ^^ thats where I got the picture.

Thanks! Guess we'll have to wait for the rest.

The design is okay. I just wish they would give the street grid a little more weight in this. The sidewalks need to continue from the streets inward. You should be able to pass through the park in a relatively straight line.

Disappointed.

KFOR was at the meeting for all of 10 minutes. I was there for 3 hours and I'll have a story out tonight....

Disappointed.

To say the least. This yet another project that will have to be fixed later. Why can't we seem to do things right the first time?

I just got done watching this and thought I would pass it along.

b1PzBh4oC_4

The design is okay. I just wish they would give the street grid a little more weight in this. The sidewalks need to continue from the streets inward. You should be able to pass through the park in a relatively straight line.

Clearly this design is driven to cater to the convention center.

The design is lacking of sense of place and context to the area. If it weren't for the Union Station and Scissortail bridge it could be plopped anywhere. It has no context to the area. They have a tiki hut looking cafe. They need to keep the Film Exchange buildings to add some context and have some instant place making. They instead went for the clearcut loss of historic buildings.

Oklahoma City architecture firm unveils Core to Shore park master plan | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-architecture-firm-unveils-core-to-shore-park-master-plan/article/3748506)


A first draft of a master plan for a $130 million Core to Shore park in Oklahoma City suggests demolition all remaining structures on the site other than Union Station and construction of a cafe, lake, gardens, fountains and a grand lawn.

I like this design BUT I was convinced that they were going with the older renderings that are all over the internet. =(

The best thing they can do with the design is to plan around a few of those buildings.

The more I look at it, the more I don't like it.

Public meeting is tomorrow?

(Today since it's past midnight)

While their are some things I would prefer changed especially pedestrian access at street intersections, another bridge between 6th & Hudson and the 'Great Lawn/Promontory' and everything south of i40 if it is the same as the earlier Alternate #1 plan. Of the three base options I like this one better than the other two. The one called Alternate #2 had a lake that was far more obtrusive and would preclude most any traveling not around the edge of the park. The one called Alternate #3 looked like they wanted to design a golf course but had to use it as a park.

I'm guessing Shadid said 4 to 5 million in that video and not 45 million in upkeep, lol. I think that park design is OK because, yes,, as the interviewee said, it is OKlahoma in a sense, the different environments of Oklahoma all packed into a 40 North park but, I'm with everyone else. Make it more diverse and easier to gain access from one side to the other. It doesn't need to be a garden park.

Also, if any of you are going tomorrow night, print off some of our renderings and present them at the meeting. Apparently, the park committee doesn't view this site and they need some help...

Oklahoma City architecture firm unveils Core to Shore park master plan | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-architecture-firm-unveils-core-to-shore-park-master-plan/article/3748506)


It seems to me it would be worth reconsidering the timing of the park to do it all in one phase in 2018, when the convention center (planned for the block immediately north of the park) is done and the boulevard is done,” Perry said.

One might begin to wonder if anything will ever get finished before the cc gets finished. Actually, only beginning to wonder might be a tad behind the curve.

very good design and will be very very successful ..

very good design and will be very very successful ..

I see this as one great big future "we told you so" screw-up. Clearly one of us will be wrong.

These images are from KFOR and are also attached to the Wiki article:



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/3264d1359036991-central-park-centralpark12413a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/3263d1359036991-central-park-centralpark12413b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/3260d1359036988-central-park-centralpark12413e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/3261d1359036989-central-park-centralpark12413d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/urban-development-buildings/3262d1359036989-central-park-centralpark12413c.jpg

OKLAHOMA CITY – It’s one of the crown jewels of the MAPS3 projects (http://kfor.com/2013/01/23/sneak-peak-at-plans-for-maps3-downtown-park/).
We’re getting a sneak peek at the $130 million central park.
The 70 acre downtown park will be built over three phases starting later this year.
It’s not much to look at now, merely some trash and empty fields, but there are some lofty goals for the future park.
“Think about this as a park for everyone. It’s a common ground. The spirit of the city,” said project architect Mary Margaret Jones.
Phase one, slated to start this year, will include a plaza and gardens, eventually with a fountain and cafe.
Just to the south, a stage and great lawn, capable of holding 20,000 people, will be built.
Phase two features a three-acre lake surrounded by wooded walking trails.
Phase three, 30 acres south of I-40, will be more rural with native wetlands and prairie.
It’ll then all be connected by a large walkable promenade.
“We want this to feel like Oklahoma City,” Jones said. “One that has a landscape very much of Oklahoma.”
Nearly all the property in the 40-acre upper park has already been bought by the city.
The owner of one of the few businesses in the area hopes the three phases will allow the parks design to transform over time.
“Create the park but don’t overdevelop it; let it evolve as needed,” business owner Mike Bailey said.
A public meeting is set for Thursday night at the downtown library.
That’s the last meeting for the public to give their feedback.
Construction will begin this year and phase one should be open by next year but the total project won’t be complete until 2020.

OKLAHOMA CITY – It’s one of the crown jewels of the MAPS3 projects (http://kfor.com/2013/01/23/sneak-peak-at-plans-for-maps3-downtown-park/).
We’re getting a sneak peek at the $130 million central park.
The 70 acre downtown park will be built over three phases starting later this year.
It’s not much to look at now, merely some trash and empty fields, but there are some lofty goals for the future park.
“Think about this as a park for everyone. It’s a common ground. The spirit of the city,” said project architect Mary Margaret Jones.
Phase one, slated to start this year, will include a plaza and gardens, eventually with a fountain and cafe.
Just to the south, a stage and great lawn, capable of holding 20,000 people, will be built.
Phase two features a three-acre lake surrounded by wooded walking trails.
Phase three, 30 acres south of I-40, will be more rural with native wetlands and prairie.
It’ll then all be connected by a large walkable promenade.
“We want this to feel like Oklahoma City,” Jones said. “One that has a landscape very much of Oklahoma.”
Nearly all the property in the 40-acre upper park has already been bought by the city.
The owner of one of the few businesses in the area hopes the three phases will allow the parks design to transform over time.
“Create the park but don’t overdevelop it; let it evolve as needed,” business owner Mike Bailey said.
A public meeting is set for Thursday night at the downtown library.
That’s the last meeting for the public to give their feedback.
Construction will begin this year and phase one should be open by next year but the total project won’t be complete until 2020.

If there are plans for a cafe, why in the hell can't they keep (at minimum) a couple of the older buildings already present and turn those into cafes?? I don't understand why in the hell it is so hard to get some adaptive reuse in this park, especially when it would fit what they're saying they want to do.

If there are plans for a cafe, why in the hell can't they keep (at minimum) a couple of the older buildings already present and turn those into cafes?? I don't understand why in the hell it is so hard to get some adaptive reuse in this park, especially when it would fit what they're saying they want to do.

I thought they said they had intentions to evaluate existing buildings that may be kept a few months ago

It looks like the plan is to eliminate the streets around Union Station, except to the west.

This is great news, as it will make that glorious structure feel like it's in the park, rather than across the street from it.

The design is okay. I just wish they would give the street grid a little more weight in this. The sidewalks need to continue from the streets inward. You should be able to pass through the park in a relatively straight line.


Disappointed.


To say the least. This yet another project that will have to be fixed later. Why can't we seem to do things right the first time?

This. Because we're OKC and our politicians are too bent on taking 2 steps back every time we move forward. You'd think as well traveled Mayor Mick and Councilwoman Meg Salyer were, they'd have seen world class developments in other cities.

Also, did anyone notice they completely scrapped the sports field on the south side of I-40? "Let it evolve, over time" means we're cutting out features and quality planning so we can spend more money on the convention center.

There is virtually no access to the park from the neighborhoods. You have to go around major features to access it. If these renderings are correct that is. Look for example at the Robinson Gardens. It blocks off access. They should have put an E/W path through that. If you live on 7th, you need to walk an extra 2 blocks just to get inside the park. That is what I mean by brutal. It isn't like any other central park I've seen.

Central parks in urban contexts are indented to 'absorb' they wayfaring pedestrian. It should be effortless to escape urbanity.

Oh well. Clearly these architects are approaching this park completely different. Maybe all the urban parks I've experienced around the world are just old school and this is the new and improved method. Heh.

not sure where you get that you would have to walk 2 extra blocks to get into the park ... you will be able to enter the park from just about everywhere ..

Also, did anyone notice they completely scrapped the sports field on the south side of I-40? "Let it evolve, over time" means we're cutting out features and quality planning so we can spend more money on the convention center.

I was suprised by that too, especially since some of the paths make it look harder to add them later but until development reaches far enough west that Wheeler park is converted to something else their is not as urgent a demand for some of the fields in the area, those facilities at Wheeler were just rebuilt like a year or two ago. Tennis, basketball and soccer facilities still seem like they could be worked in.

Is anybody on here planning on going this evening? I wasn't, but I'm starting to think there needs to be some significant public input. I feel the need to go and either say something or have my concerns assuaged. At least convince the park is so amazing that demolishing historic structures is absolutely necessary. It seems like we have heard that song and dance (Pei Plan).

Whatever happened to Preservation Oklahoma? Seems I haven't heard from them since the Sandridge fight.

I'm planning on going.

demo for part of the north park is starting in Feb/march .. Item IX on the maps board agenda .. is for approving specification for Demolition package 2 and authorizing the the clerk to advertise for bids ..

if passed it should be on the council agenda next tuesday .. the block between Harvey and Robinson sw 6th to sw 7th .. and the north west block (3rd-4th Hudson-Harvey) that is already cleared ..

I really like the north-west corner, I was hoping that there would be trails covevered by trees. I think walking that area will seem like your not even downtown, which I like. But with the great lawn, small lake, cafe, and Union Station, I think it will make this park very attract all sorts of people, not just from OKC. And with the lower park, I'm again very much in love with all the trees and trails. I like this whole concept.

Maybe all the urban parks I've experienced around the world are just old school and this is the new and improved method. Heh.

Really? I visited London and Paris this summer and the two parks closest to where I was staying, Regent's park and Jardin du Luxembourg were wall and had very limited access. Compared to those this Central Park has plentiful access.

Bad news for preservationists ...

What Will be Torn Down as Part of the Core to Shore Park Plan | OKC Central (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2013/01/24/what-will-be-torn-down-as-part-of-the-core-to-shore-park-plan/)

Really? I visited London and Paris this summer and the two parks closest to where I was staying, Regent's park and Jardin du Luxembourg were wall and had very limited access. Compared to those this Central Park has plentiful access.

The entrances to Regents Park lineup nicely with connecting roads along the Outer Circle. I like the walls around parks. Give it a sense of place. I guess they just assume people will cut through the underbrush and such to enter OKC Central Park. That should make a for a pleasnt short-cut after a rain.

Bad news for preservationists ...

What Will be Torn Down as Part of the Core to Shore Park Plan | OKC Central (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2013/01/24/what-will-be-torn-down-as-part-of-the-core-to-shore-park-plan/)

With the Nichols Hills Chesapeake construction debacle and now this, I wonder if this city really did learn the lessons of the Pei Plan.

By just moving the lake (keeping same dimensions) and rotating it just a few degrees...you can integrate the grid into this park....I took the liberty to do some photoshopping:

Original:
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/773700_10151196717586636_2090251870_o.jpg

Catch22:
http://gyazo.com/399149323a36f5cbb9e493033e884720.png
Catch22 (with red highlighting pedestrian paths)
http://gyazo.com/fb18fbb9e4141f76fb0876d30403dad1.png

That is soooo much better it isn't even funny.

Has anyone noticed that the Promontory and Great Lawn, together with the Boulevard Gardens kind of look like the state seal?

The entrances to Regents Park lineup nicely with connecting roads along the Outer Circle. I like the walls around parks. Give it a sense of place. I guess they just assume people will cut through the underbrush and such to enter OKC Central Park. That should make a for a pleasnt short-cut after a rain.

So you are saying that they are planning obstructive bushes to block entering the park except a few isolated entry points. I didn't get that from the drawings shown.

It's been a couple of years since I have been at Regent's Park, but it seems to me that it has a ring on the outside similar to what we will have .. a complete perimeter walk. It also has trees and growth on the inside edge of the ring and when I look at a map/illustration, it looks similarly illustrated to the ones in our presentation. In other words, there doesn't seem to be any reason to interpret the drawings here to include low lying and obstructive bushes. Regents covers a huge area, 2/3 of a square mile, and doesn't line up paths with a grid.

Central Park in OKC has walls and barriers to entry around much of it except at certain entryways. How is it that on one had this provides "a sense of place", but on this illustration any separations and restrictions are just obstructions?

For the size of park, it seems like there are quite a bit of paths while still allowing for unobstructed lawns, ponds, etc. There has to be a balance.

Let me set it straight.

1) OKC Central Park does not have a defined border as near as I can tell. At best it has a transition line from sidewalk to grass. This means that a person with two good legs and optimal weather conditions can probably enter and exit the park at any given location. Wheelchair, elderly, crutches, rain, snow, etc... - not so good.

2) I prefer a defined park boundary using a hedge row, low stone wall, or wrought iron fence and defined well-appointed entrances that line up with the streets approaching the park (grid or otherwise). By enclosing the boundary it is possible to let children run free so long as they stay in eye-sight. Entrances that line up with existing streets at the periphery allow pedestrians to traverse the park even if they are not a park user. It also allows park users to enter the park at a safe and landscape-friendly point at the earliest possible time. Not many things say “planning mistake” like a worn path in the grass. A park is an outdoor room, it needs boundaries.

3) If you look at Regents Park on Google Earth you will see that there is a hedge row around the entire park but there are opening everywhere a road connects to the Outer Ring road. Once you arrive at the park all you have to do is cross the street and enter.

4) All great parks have a physical boundary. Boston Common has wrought iron and chains around most of it, NYC Central Park has a stone wall, Millennium Park has hedge row and net fence, Washington DC mall has chain, etc... OKC Central Park? MBG?

So, on one hand access is good, and on the other it is bad. On one hand you said that people would have to pass through the underbrush, and on the other it is no good because there is no hedge or other barrier. On one hand the street and ring are great but we have a street and perimeter walkway, but that is no good. And, we need an entrance at each side street and a grid across the park.

I've spent a fair amount of time in Regent's Park, Boston Commons, Central Park, Hyde Park, etc. and feel like if any of those were actually proposed here they would be highly criticized as I can point out many features which don't seem to fit the rigid requirements. LOL.

I like the curving pathways, a series of gardens, an great open area and lots of smaller, more intimate areas. I like the water features as one of my favorite things in NY Central Park is to go watch the remote control sail boats and all the kids dangling their feet in the water on a summer's day. I like patches of people under trees on their blankets reading their books. I like the joggers running the paths and cross country. I think this could have a really nice feel as the vegetation matures.

This may be unknown detail, but are the paths solid stone, poured concrete, pebble stones, or other?

Looking at an aerial of Central Park NYC, all of the pathways hook into the street grid. They may curve, but they still originate at an intersection.

Well the good news for you Rover is that they are building the park the way you want it (or at least in a way you don't disagree with). We'll see in time how that works out.

Looking at an aerial of Central Park NYC, all of the pathways hook into the street grid. They may curve, but they still originate at an intersection.

Yes, but not at every street. And there are long stretches where it is difficult to get from the park to the street.

Yes, but their blocks are 246 ft long. Ours are 350ft long adjacent to the park.

Yes, but their blocks are 246 ft long. Ours are 350ft long adjacent to the park.

Have you spent any time in NYC at Central Park? If so, you would know what I am talking about.

Have you spent any time in NYC at Central Park? If so, you would know what I am talking about.

Yes, I have. Although I will admit it has been several years. I do remember access was fairly restrictive. Which I do not have a problem with. I just want the paths they do have to connect directly into the grid.

I'm also at the meeting as we speak, room is about half full.

Has anyone noticed that the Promontory and Great Lawn, together with the Boulevard Gardens kind of look like the state seal?

Yes, I saw that and got a lil chuckle. They (the designers) probably are wondering if we'd notice!

Room is now full. Just a few open seats.

Catch22, your pedestrian paths make great sense for the park. The park's going to alienate users if, with its size, people can't easily make their way through park to get to their preferred spots.

One of the nice aspects of the former Hargreaves renderings was the NW plaza (with ring-like public art) forming a diagonal connection to the arena. Between the new pedestian "funnel" and edge trees in that corner in the new rendering and the elevated entrance of the new SW entry of the arena, it seems the architects of both were told to minimize the connection between the two. Too bad.

I hope programming for the park is going to be aggressive, because in order to be successful, the park will have to attract non-downtown residents (along with visitors) daily. No one wants to go to park nobody else is enjoying. This is why dense residential must be a priority for Core to Shore. It must be an urban neighborhood the likes we haven't seen in decades.

Overall, it's a nice enough design, but attractiveness will mostly depend on its perception at street level.

I think the meeting was well received and put together.

Most of the concerns seemed to be with maintenance, security, etc. -- the actual operations of the park. Mary Margaret, the speaker with Hargreaves, reinforced the idea that this meeting was for the actual physical design of the park, and they are not far enough along to address specific concerns for operating budgets.

Also, the latino community was well represented and wanted to ensure Manuel Perez Park (on the lower section) was not ignored by MAPS3, the design team, or the city itself and wanted to be in the conversations with those groups as the park moves forward. It was made clear the MAPS3 money cannot be spent west of Harvey on the lower section, which would mean MAP3 cannot address that park, but can design the lower park to open up into that park for future connectivity.

After the meeting, I handed a copy of the above modifications I made to Mary Margaret, so hopefully they may be able to address East/West pedestrian flows. I think it's an easy solution without modifying the design much, she seemed neutral on the subject, but stated (and this is paraphrase) they didn't really want to include the grid 100%, as there needs to be some winding to the trails.

All in all I believe it was a productive meeting. I, and others, seemed to come away a little more educated and possibly excited over the park.

One thing I just thought of, the promenade (as it's being called -- the main pedestrian spine), will be open to both slow-moving/recreation bicycling and pedestrian use. I am going to recommend or suggest they use barriers to separate the traffic. These are well used in Santa Monica, and they make it both easier and safer for pedestrians and bicyclists to share the space and not be constantly dodging each other. As well as making a statement that cycling is playing an active role in our thinking and not an afterthought. Perception is everything.

http://s3-media1.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/lWMAmTSgKo5-KmpC8E2S8g/l.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_hDekOL4HWxI/TH0toZJIZoI/AAAAAAAACW0/BuEEHUux624/s1600/8-30-10+024.jpg
http://www.los-angeles-attractions.com/images/bike_path.jpg

You can see the small 8 inch tall barriers in the above photos. Signs and pavement markings make it clear where pedestrians go and where cyclists go.

I was at the meeting and asked why they were designing a new modern cafe when they had the Original Film Exchange building. She said that we were lucky to have Union Station and that it would take most of the "programming functions", and the location of the building was horrible.

I don't know how the building couldn't be in a better position. It is not in the middle of the park. It would be easy to design it as the cafe.

They also emphasized the park along the Boulevard and Convention Center. I don't understand why they would put the cafe and other functions next to the high traffic boulevard? Didn't make sense to me, must be a Mayor Cornett thing.

Viability is key to any restaurant

She didn't state that the location was "horrible" but less than Ideal(paraphrase). They're wanting the traffic from north to supply business to a cafe following the completion of the first part(2014 on). The building-if renovated- would be abandoned until the completion of the upper park. She also stated that the building was too big. The renovation costs would be very expensive and getting tenants would be more difficult. It sounded like they tried to justify using the older buildings as much as possible, however it just didn't add up economically.

I'm all for keeping historic buildings, however the history and architecture of the building have to be able to justify the increased costs. Unfortuantely, the Film Exchange buildings history and architecture doesn't justify its' existence.


I was at the meeting and asked why they were designing a new modern cafe when they had the Original Film Exchange building. She said that we were lucky to have Union Station and that it would take most of the "programming functions", and the location of the building was horrible.

I don't know how the building couldn't be in a better position. It is not in the middle of the park. It would be easy to design it as the cafe.

They also emphasized the park along the Boulevard and Convention Center. I don't understand why they would put the cafe and other functions next to the high traffic boulevard? Didn't make sense to me, must be a Mayor Cornett thing.