Is Garrett & Co Capable of developing it or do they just sit on the property and wait for someone else to pay them for for the property? As you said they own the land next door and so far they are not moving forward with development.

Is Garrett & Co Capable of developing it or do they just sit on the property and wait for someone else to pay them for for the property? As you said they own the land next door and so far they are not moving forward with development.

They are and always have been speculators.

They are and always have been speculators.

have also developed many things ..

It's a little concerning that it is only listed on Zillow and not Loopnet or some other commercial real estate listing site. I know CoStar charges an arm and a leg, but the amount of marketing exposure this tract will get doesn't make me super confident in the list of potential buyers. At the same time, I wouldn't be surprised if Garrett & Co buys it up since they already own the park frontage (Manuel Perez Park) and other lots in the immediate area.

Also, depending on the actual size of the tract, $35-$40 per square foot isn't terribly pricy. People have paid more for less downtown.

I think it is listed through verbose which is mostly a residential brokerage. Before being on Zillow this was listed with a commerical agent. I remember seeing his wooden boards on the land.

They are and always have been speculators.

Sad, many such cases.

This is a hi-res image: open in new tab to see detail.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail082221a.jpg

Top left - what's that place with all the cars packed in?

Top left - what's that place with all the cars packed in?

http://pullapartokc.com/

Apparently there was some contaminated soil discovered in Lower Scissortail. The soil has been documented and is being removed and replaced with fresh soil.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail082921a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail082921b.jpg

im failing to see where Cusak meats is located in this. Did hte city work something out with them?

im failing to see where Cusak meats is located in this. Did hte city work something out with them?

smack dab middle of the lower park

What are the plans for that riverfront at the sound end of the park? Leave it as is, or spruce it up a bit?

What are the plans for that riverfront at the sound end of the park? Leave it as is, or spruce it up a bit?
At some point I thought they had a development proposed there. In one of the renderings I saw a boathouse with a restaurant.

im failing to see where Cusak meats is located in this. Did hte city work something out with them?

The city failed to come to an agreement with them. They'll sell the property at some later point for lots of money after the park makes the land value go up, or maybe use it for privately owned surface parking. Or both, probably.

oh thanks for the update guys. I was hoping my eyes were correctly not seeing Cusak in the pics but oh well.

the areas around the park look more like a park.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/09/07/hazardous-waste-discovery-eats-into-budget-downtown-okc-park/5576288001/

It is bad news. Not sure what the former owner was trying to do. Automotive batteries, you can resell them at the recycling plant down the street.

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/2021/09/07/hazardous-waste-discovery-eats-into-budget-downtown-okc-park/5576288001/
If you don't subscribe the provided link is an advertisement to subscribe. What is the article about?

If you don't subscribe the provided link is an advertisement to subscribe. What is the article about?

They found a large pit of battery casings in the lower park. The removal and remediation is estimated to be over $400,000, so they're figuring out how to get more funds or reallocate budgets from the upper park.

I'm sure they have money left over in the MAPS3 Contingency Fund?

It is bad news. Not sure what the former owner was trying to do. Automotive batteries, you can resell them at the recycling plant down the street.

Is there any recourse against the previous owner, or is it a matter of "not enough evidence" as to who did it?

They found a large pit of battery casings in the lower park. The removal and remediation is estimated to be over $400,000, so they're figuring out how to get more funds or reallocate budgets from the upper park.
Thank you.

In residential sales you have up to 2 years (pretty sure) to file a lawsuit against a previous owner if something like this came up.

In residential sales you have up to 2 years (pretty sure) to file a lawsuit against a previous owner if something like this came up.

even then, wouldn't the buyer have to demonstrate that the seller not only knew about the environmental issues but misled the buyer into thinking that there weren't any?

even then, wouldn't the buyer have to demonstrate that the seller not only knew about the environmental issues but misled the buyer into thinking that there weren't any?

I would guess all that property in the area was contaminated at some time and all the purchase agreements had a brownfield waiver for the seller.

17091
17093

Here are some on the ground photos from the bridge looking south from 9/09.

What is this structure being built in the lower park? Not seeing it on the original plans, though I know they've been updated and not sure if post #1 was similarly updated.

17094


Also, The Perch seems to be popular...

17095

What is this structure being built in the lower park? Not seeing it on the original plans, though I know they've been updated and not sure if post #1 was similarly updated.

17094

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark122020c.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark122020d.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark122020e.jpg

cool thanks

Taken this morning (Sunday):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail092621a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/paycom100521d.jpeg

This photo really is an image that should be a point of pride for us all--just really modern and beautiful.

From within the park, all the LED lighting on the convention center, 4th Street Experience, Omni and now Paycom Center really looks amazing.

Last night, Scissortail Park was completely packed. This park has turned out to be more popular than I think anyone imagined, and most all the property around it is still undeveloped.

I have to wonder if any single other MAPS project in the history of the initiative have been as successful as the park. Maybe the canal with as much usage as Bricktown has had over the years, but I feel like the park is surpassing that.

I have to wonder if any single other MAPS project in the history of the initiative have been as successful as the park. Maybe the canal with as much usage as Bricktown has had over the years, but I feel like the park is surpassing that.

Bruh. Ford Center/The Peake/Paycom Center absolutely has to be first.

^

Unless the weather is lousy, the parking spots around Scissortail are full in the evenings and weekends with hundreds of people walking dogs, pushing strollers or just strolling. If you sit on the deck at Social Capital, you'll watch hundred of people go by.

It's very cool to see, especially since this city needs recreation more than anything else.

Bruh. Ford Center/The Peake/Paycom Center absolutely has to be first.

Not sure I'd agree. Sure, the arena enabled the Thunder to happen as well as concerts and whatnot, but in terms of the public directly being able to use the amenity in question, seeing something at the arena means a paid ticket of some sort, to use the park you just have to get to it. Total gut feeling, but I suspect in terms of the share of the population that might use it over time, or possibly already has, the park potentially wins.

Anecdotes are not data, etc., but as a personal example I have never attended a Thunder game or a concert at the arena, but have visited the park multiple times in the few years it has been complete.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail100621a.jpg

that is a great picture

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail100621b.jpg

Not sure I'd agree. Sure, the arena enabled the Thunder to happen as well as concerts and whatnot, but in terms of the public directly being able to use the amenity in question, seeing something at the arena means a paid ticket of some sort, to use the park you just have to get to it. Total gut feeling, but I suspect in terms of the share of the population that might use it over time, or possibly already has, the park potentially wins.

Anecdotes are not data, etc., but as a personal example I have never attended a Thunder game or a concert at the arena, but have visited the park multiple times in the few years it has been complete.

I hear you. It's just hard for me to not feel the Arena as being a bigger piece in the bigger picture. Obviously the park is awesome, and not even fully finished yet. And on the surface, I don't think there's any doubt the park is better than a simple arena.


But when you consider that no arena means no New Orleans Hornets ever coming to OKC which means no Thunder which means absolutely none of the benefits and growth having an NBA team in the city counts for, Scissortail just doesn't measure up to that.


Basically when I say that I feel that the Paycom Center is a bigger deal, what I'm saying is that having the Thunder here is a bigger deal.

I hear you. It's just hard for me to not feel the Arena as being a bigger piece in the bigger picture. Obviously the park is awesome, and not even fully finished yet. And on the surface, I don't think there's any doubt the park is better than a simple arena.


But when you consider that no arena means no New Orleans Hornets ever coming to OKC which means no Thunder which means absolutely none of the benefits and growth having an NBA team in the city counts for, Scissortail just doesn't measure up to that.


Basically when I say that I feel that the Paycom Center is a bigger deal, what I'm saying is that having the Thunder here is a bigger deal.

I could go with that. Direct impact on the city population the park possibly wins, but considering the second order effects the arena wins. Weird though how all of that also depends on Katrina happening when and where it did, but what can you do.

Not sure I'd agree. Sure, the arena enabled the Thunder to happen as well as concerts and whatnot, but in terms of the public directly being able to use the amenity in question, seeing something at the arena means a paid ticket of some sort, to use the park you just have to get to it. Total gut feeling, but I suspect in terms of the share of the population that might use it over time, or possibly already has, the park potentially wins.

Anecdotes are not data, etc., but as a personal example I have never attended a Thunder game or a concert at the arena, but have visited the park multiple times in the few years it has been complete.

Counter example: I have been to hundreds of games (and several concerts) over 20 years and have been to the park a few times. More importantly, I regularly make trips to Oklahoma to go to Thunder games. I'd certainly never do that for the park.

I'm not saying one is right or wrong. People's experiences are different. But there is absolutely no way that one year of the park has outweighed 20 years of the arena. Thunder have had thousands of games and every one brings between 15,000 to 18,000 downtown.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail100621b.jpg

This picture is awesome! It also shows how much potential there is for development on the north and the east of the Convention Center (which is pretty cool itself) Not to mention the west and the south that is not pictured here. Downtown is going to be so much bigger in 10-20 years.

Thunder have had thousands of games and every one brings between 15,000 to 18,000 downtown.

I don't deny that the arena and the Thunder are the catalyst for a lot of what we have downtown now but.... Thousands of games? Factoring in playoff games I would put that count somewhere around 600 games in their 13 years here..... But hopefully they'll play thousands more here.

Counter example: I have been to hundreds of games (and several concerts) over 20 years and have been to the park a few times. More importantly, I regularly make trips to Oklahoma to go to Thunder games. I'd certainly never do that for the park.

I'm not saying one is right or wrong. People's experiences are different. But there is absolutely no way that one year of the park has outweighed 20 years of the arena. Thunder have had thousands of games and every one brings between 15,000 to 18,000 downtown.

And there's a lot of money spent by those thousands of attendees, whereas people generally don't spend money at the park.

Thunder = National and International exposure. The park, not quite so much more than regional exposure possibly..

Counter example: I have been to hundreds of games (and several concerts) over 20 years and have been to the park a few times. More importantly, I regularly make trips to Oklahoma to go to Thunder games. I'd certainly never do that for the park.

I'm not saying one is right or wrong. People's experiences are different. But there is absolutely no way that one year of the park has outweighed 20 years of the arena. Thunder have had thousands of games and every one brings between 15,000 to 18,000 downtown.

Do you disagree with my share of the population metric and my estimate of whether the arena or the park will get broader use going by that metric? There's a lot of people in this city who cannot afford to go to hundreds of Thunder games over the years but can afford to take the family to the park for the day.

Do you disagree with my share of the population metric and my estimate of whether the arena or the park will get broader use going by that metric? There's a lot of people in this city who cannot afford to go to hundreds of Thunder games over the years but can afford to take the family to the park for the day.

Why do you have guys have to compete on this? Both are very important for this city. You certainly can argue that a free venue can be used by a wider section of the population, but you can also argue that the PR and intrinsic value of having the Paycom center helps drive a thriving economy that makes paying for things like the park quicker and easier. They can be synergistic. These arguments tend to be focused narrowly and framed for specific points of view.

Why do you have guys have to compete on this? Both are very important for this city. You certainly can argue that a free venue can be used by a wider section of the population, but you can also argue that the PR and intrinsic value of having the Paycom center helps drive a thriving economy that makes paying for things like the park quicker and easier. They can be synergistic. These arguments tend to be focused narrowly and framed for specific points of view.

Arguing on the internet is a major part of the human condition.

Arguing on the internet is a major part of the human condition.
Sadly true.

Folks I think its great that OKC has both the Arena, Canal, and Scissortail Park as relics from MAPS. All are great and would IMO be the top 3 of the program but for different reasons:

Arena is #1 project for OKC national/international exposure. It helped land a major league franchise and has allowed OKC to be featured on television sets during broadcasts. Nothing else has given so much exposure to OKC.

Canal is #1 for creating OKC's first and the state's largest entertainment district. The canal solidified Bricktown into what we see today - a thriving complete district with something for everyone. As Bricktown matures investment has gone into Midtown, AAlley, Film Row, and now Union District - none of this would have been possible IMO without the canal making Bricktown a 'play' for investment proving Downtown is by extension a viable play. Nothing has had as much financial impact to the city as has the canal if you agree with my correlation.

Scissortail Park is #1 for OKC's health, recreation, and socializing. Probably Riversports might come close but there's been no single MAPS project with the unifying effect that the park has brought. During my visits, OKC just felt like a big city with this new park and it was great to have an amenity so close to the CBD. While I personally think Myriad Gardens is even bigger draw with it's maturity and super-interactive focus it isnt a MAPS project so Scissortail (which is also very close) would be the choice from a Maps prospective.

Very nice to have Scissortail Park, Bricktown Canal, and Paycom Arena all in close proximity to MGB, Riversports District, and the CBD. All of these combined with the other districts around the CBD has given our central core lots of amenities and "things to do" so that OKC no longer has the old moniker of "nothing to do in OKC". The big 3 along with the original OKC venues are what makes OKC a burgeoning world class destination. Yes I said it.

If not for the Thunder (here because of the Ford Center), there might not have been a Maps 3.

The arrival of the Thunder is what got so many people believing in the process. Think about the highs and lows of the canal...how little the library is used...the Thunder was a big ticket item that sold the citizens that this tax could bring big time, positive changes to the city.

I don't deny that the arena and the Thunder are the catalyst for a lot of what we have downtown now but.... Thousands of games? Factoring in playoff games I would put that count somewhere around 600 games in their 13 years here..... But hopefully they'll play thousands more here.

In my mind, I think I accidentally thought of 82 games instead of 41 home games... but still, the larger point is there despite my poor mathing. ;)

yes no doubt the arena and by extension the Thunder has brought a new level of consious for OKC both nationally/internationally and within the city itself. But you can't deny the impact of the other two on the ground-level experience brought to you by MAPS either which has really improved OKC"s quality of life more than anything.

That;s why I think it's a 3-way tie.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail101321a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail101321a.jpg

looking forward to this same picture 5 and 10 years from now when trees have aged ..

Yeah, this is only going to get nicer as it develops. One of the reasons I harp so much on the park is because of a few visits I have taken to NYC where I spent several hours wandering through Central Park and observed the constant usage by residents and visitors. This is also why the Strawberry fields development needs to be a home run and not The Hill 2.0, we lose out on potential synergy if we don't have population living nearby.