Unless at some point the Peake can't be renovated to conform to fit some new revenue generating upgrade that other arenas are able to add thus putting the Peake at a disadvantage (like the inability for Seattle to add more suites and lodge boxes to Key Arena) or the capacity leaves the market way underserved, this just isn't the case. I doubt we need a new arena for at least 20-30 years unless some crazy new innovation comes along. As of right now, no other city is including anything like that that couldn't be added to the Peake. I think everyone needs to calm their fears about needing a new arena anytime soon.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not worried at all, nor am I saying a new arena is needed in 4-5 years. I said i bet a *discussion* about the need for a new one starts to happen in 4-5 years. Considering the rapid growth of the NBA and increasing efforts by each team to bring in new revenue, I think this is reasonable. It would take a least another 10 years after the discussion begins to open an arena., likely 15 years.

I would hope that the parking lot will have been developed by then into something great, but we've seen other prime properties sit uselessly for quite awhile.

Perhaps I wasn't clear. I'm not worried at all, nor am I saying a new arena is needed in 4-5 years. I said i bet a *discussion* about the need for a new one starts to happen in 4-5 years. Considering the rapid growth of the NBA and increasing efforts by each team to bring in new revenue, I think this is reasonable. It would take a least another 10 years after the discussion begins to open an arena., likely 15 years.

I would hope that the parking lot will have been developed by then into something great, but we've seen other prime properties sit uselessly for quite awhile.

I understood what you meant and thats just it, there aren't any new revenue generating upgrades being made now or in the foreseeable future that couldn’t be added to the current building. Something significant would have to change in arena revenue generation models to even warrant initiating that discussion. Capacity might be an issue at some point, but realistically the team is probably going to go through a pretty big transition period after about 5-10 years so the direction we go after that point along with the state of the NBA and the OKC economy will likely dictate whether an increase in capacity will even be needed. From both a PR perspective, it’s much better to have an 18,203 seat arena that constantly sells out than a 23,000 seat arena that always has tons of empty seats. I could see a facelift being needed during that timeframe or immediately thereafter but really, the shine is still wearing off the most recent upgrades. The arena really looks great inside and out. Additionally, with large arenas in the planning stages at the fairgrounds and in Norman and with the BOK up the turnpike, who’s to say that the Thunder wouldn’t have a few other somewhat comparable venues to play in for a season or two while the Peake was demolished and rebuilt on the current site, which is about as good as you can get in the CBD for an arena (especially when the CC and park are completed). Sure attendance would dip for one season and potentially all or part of the next, but it wouldn’t be the end of the world. Look at Madison Square Garden, it’s undergone many massive renovations but was built in such a way that it could continually be upgraded at the same site to keep up.

OKC track record on development/redevelopment does not illicit confidence (mine) in either timely or transformational development outcomes. Look for a modest, uninspired, fill-in effort. Same for the cotton seed area. OKC just does not go big on development

Doesn't elicit confidence. Illicit would mean the confidence is crooked.

Wait, and yOUr assumption is supposed to influence me how? I cannot do anything to change your opinion nor do i care to. Have a blessed day thOUgh sir!

Dear god.

Wait, and yOUr assumption is supposed to influence me how? I cannot do anything to change your opinion nor do i care to. Have a blessed day thOUgh sir!

Please! Just stop. It's infantile.

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the area looks like a total construction site at full speed. i have a feeling the electric sub-station will begin demolition in the next few days/weeks.

I was downtown last night and walked all around a couple of hours before the Thunder game.

There were people *everywhere* and particularly at the Myriad Gardens.

I think this park is going to see far more use than people may believe. There are just so many people downtown these days and considering the heavy programming and near constant use at the MBG, Scissortail will likely the place for people to throw the frisbee, kick the soccer ball and get in some serious walking, especially when the lower park opens all the way to the river.

Credit to all those who saw the potential in this area because you can see the vision starting to take shape in real time.

I think this park will be the main reason some people come downtown because of its size. I’m someone that only goes downtown for thunder games and special dinner occasions, but I definitely see my trips increasing once this park opens because it will be massive and have a little bit of everything.

For the people wanting the REHCO site to develop right now: I think that will honestly do more harm than good. I think extending the time to develop the Cox Site and the REHCO site only enhances our possibility of developing what truly needs to be put up on those sites. The reality is that it is the most important land in Oklahoma, and if we rush to put up a couple 15 - 30 story office buildings, we're going to have missed the greatest opportunity to create a world class stretch of development from Union Station to Santa Fe Station. This may be pessimistic of me, but I seriously question sometimes how clearly the owners of these properties can see the importance of these properties (one of those owners being the city). I'll say it a million times over, but I really think those two properties being developed correctly are the difference from us being a permanent Tier III city and becoming a solid Tier II city.

Here's a video I took on Sunday showing the Hubcap Alley / Lower Park area, then the Upper Park construction then a little trip over to the Producers Coop.

Forgive the jerkiness in the beginning, I am just starting to learn about how to take good drone video then editing it, but have ideas for lots of great new content.

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Pete, Can't see any attachment, link, or embedded video.

Pete, Can't see any attachment, link, or embedded video.

Thanks for letting me know.

How about now?

So cool! Thanks!

Thanks for letting me know.

How about now?

Working like a charm

Crazy how torn to shreds the park, convention center site and the old coop site are. A complete waste land at the moment.

Crazy how torn to shreds the park, convention center site and the old coop site are. A complete waste land at the moment.

Yes, it's like a post-apocalyptic hellscape all through there but we will soon see some things starting to be built on those sites and then suddenly there will be a ton of construction all at one time.

Will be really fun to watch over the next 1-3 years.

I can't wait to see all of this get underway. It will almost certainly be the biggest transformation the city has seen in decades. If ever.

Drove by this the other day. It's quite impressive the mini-mountain they placed at the back of the Great Lawn. It's gonna be a cool setting if they do the stage and light programming correctly.

You can see they have started to dismantle the old substation. The building to the immediate north is set for demolition.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/scissortail120917.jpg

Someone had asked if the lake would be lined in some way...

There are bids out for a liner so the answer is definitely yes.

I believe it will be some sort of polypropylene.

First look at detailed plans for lower Scissortail Park (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=446-First-look-at-detailed-plans-for-lower-Scissortail-Park)

More than I expected! Wish they had the same width as the north park all the way to the river but oh, well. I think it will all be a smashing success.

Note they did remove the dog park which was to go where they elected not to buy the Cusack Meats property due to expense.

Looking like no dog park. What a let down.

Look at all the white people hanging out there! Do they really not have any computer drawings of people of color? I think there might be one guy on the soccer pitch...jeez.
I'm not saying these guys are racist or anything, but it just glared at me that everyone in every drawing is white.

Always has to be that one person try to make something out of nothing, GEEZ !!!!!!!

Look at all the white people hanging out there! Do they really not have any computer drawings of people of color? I think there might be one guy on the soccer pitch...jeez.
I'm not saying these guys are racist or anything, but it just glared at me that everyone in every drawing is white.

It’s 2017 so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised when someone gets offended because a computer mock-up isn’t PC enough... smh, pick your battles, this seems like a dumb one. FIRE THE RACIST COMPUTERS THAT DREW THIS!!!

132 mil seems like a little too much for a park. They better have some good development around it.

Keep in mind that a big chunk of that was just to acquire the land.

46 acres in the middle of the urban core... Doesn't come cheap.

How cool would it be to have something like the Milwaukee Public Market at the end of the park right on the river? Give this area a couple of decades and it's going to be the most happening place in okc.

I'd like to see a general decking built out over the rocks to hide them but to make the lakeshore more useful

First look at detailed plans for lower Scissortail Park (http://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=446-First-look-at-detailed-plans-for-lower-Scissortail-Park)So I noticed that the pier shown in the aerial POV rendering of the park isn’t shown in the site plan or layout. They also filter out those ugly ass rocks lining the whole river. Is the pier not part of these plans? They intend on building it at a later date with other funds?

A bit off topic, but I would love to see a stone wall build along the river to replace those white rocks. It makes the river look like some rural irrigation project, IMO.

The riverfront is not part of the MAPS3 plans.

Look I'm not offended or calling anyone racist. I'm not picking a battle and I'm white. I just thought it was weird that a park that is in a predominantly Hispanic neighborhood would have nothing but white folks in the drawings. Just seemed odd to me.

I went back and looked again and thought there were several non-white figures in the renderings.

^^^

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Looking at 3rd pic from the bottom of Pete's post above - Has any major downtown market ever redeveloped over 40 contiguous blocks at the same time? I imagine when WestPark, Scissortail Park, New CC/Omni/Fairfield, Producers Coop, Lumberyard all start moving dirt that OKC will make some major national headlines... In saying that - We have to do this right! Truly hope there is a master plan or at least that all parties are speaking to each other to make sure this is as dramatic a transformation as possible. Great pics Pete as always.

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In the first photo Pete posted above ^. There is a decent homeless camp that has been established for a while right there next to the building that is shaped like a half-moon. They have been posted up there throughout all of construction. I am wondering how much longer they can last. It already appears some of the make-shift shelters have moved on. You can see some of the tents/tarps in the third photo.

In the first photo Pete posted above ^. There is a decent homeless camp that has been established for a while right there next to the building that is shaped like a half-moon. They have been posted up there throughout all of construction. I am wondering how much longer they can last. It already appears some of the make-shift shelters have moved on. You can see some of the tents/tarps in the third photo.

The building you mention is where Car Doctor used to be. There was always a homeless camp setup in a row of trees just north of it that appears to now be mostly removed. I was wondering pretty much the same thing about that camp when I drove by the other morning and noticed the trees were gone.

The entire block (apart from the one building on the very NW corner) is now owned by Mazaheri and they have the 2.65 acres for sale for $9.235 million.

the entire block (apart from the one building on the very nw corner) is now owned by mazaheri and they have the 2.65 acres for sale for $9.235 million.

lol

Recall in 2014 when we had to park in that area (late Thunder game arrival) where the Car Doctor was located (1st frame, Anonymous mentioned); there were 2 tents there. Paid a guy $5.00 to watch my car and after the game he would get a $5.00 tip following my inspection. He was very dependable. Our walk from there to The Peake was a cold day challenge.

Just want to thank all of the concerned posters for your support following my recent Prostatectomy; my 2nd low PSA count indicates that I'm cancer free. Encourage those of you over 50 to get annual screens & checkups for enlarged prostrate--it doesn't seem like much; but it can be the different between extended life or shorted life expectancy.

lol

That Mazaheri asking price ($3.5 million per acre) is well less than what the City paid OG&E ($5.6 million per acre) for the old Gold Building.

That Mazaheri asking price ($3.5 million per acre) is well less than what the City paid OG&E ($5.6 million per acre) for the old Gold Building.

But Im sure that price had some consideration for the fact they had to move and re-erect the substation and whatever that building did.

I would bet that this property wont sell anytime soon for what theyre asking and when it does, it will be substantially less than what they want now.

But Im sure that price had some consideration for the fact they had to move and re-erect the substation and whatever that building did.

I would bet that this property wont sell anytime soon for what theyre asking and when it does, it will be substantially less than what they want now.

The substation deal was completely separate and the City already paid OG&E for that, plus guaranteed any cost overrun.

The substation deal was completely separate and the City already paid OG&E for that, plus guaranteed any cost overrun.

So Pete, what is your observation of why they overpaid? Corruption, incompetence, or laziness? Has to be something since you have demonstrated a gross overpayment? What do you know, or what do you suspect about the negotiations?

So Pete, what is your observation of why they overpaid? Corruption, incompetence, or laziness? Has to be something since you have demonstrated a gross overpayment? What do you know, or what do you suspect about the negotiations?

Just my opinion:
1. OG&E is way too cozy with the Alliance / OCURA
2. The City didn't want to take OG&E to court for eminent domain to determine an objective market price for the property (see #1)
3. The City just threw them a big figure to get the deal done so they could move forward with the convention garage that will go on this site, as the start of its construction is one of the requirements by Omni before they start their hotel

I keep comparables for all downtown property sales and this one -- which fronts Shields and the RR tracks -- sold for more per acre than any other property in the past, and is way, way more per acre than the city offered for the REHCO property that is unquestionably a better site.

Just my opinion:
1. OG&E is way too cozy with the Alliance / OCURA
2. The City didn't want to take OG&E to court for eminent domain to determine an objective market price for the property (see #1)
3. The City just threw them a big figure to get the deal done so they could move forward with the convention garage that will go on this site, as the start of its construction is one of the requirements by Omni before they start their hotel

I keep comparables for all downtown property sales and this one -- which fronts Shields and the RR tracks -- sold for more per acre than any other property in the past, and is way, way more per acre than the city offered for the REHCO property that is unquestionably a better site.

All of this makes the City sound real shady. If that became public knowledge I'm betting the MAPS votes would take a hit. Honestly already making me question how I'd vote on the next one.

Shady or not, the city offered REHCO $1.1 million per acre for their land between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park, then turned around and paid OG&E over $5.5 million per acre for the garage property. That is a factor of 5X.

Keep in mind the *entire* land acquisition budget for the convention center was $13 million. Yet, the City paid more than $14 million just 2.8 acres for the garage, which is a way higher price than recent comparable sales and certainly way, way more than what the City paid for surrounding properties.

Facts don't lie. I'm glad you put them out there so we can make our own informed opinion. Unfortunately for me OKC was one of the few things I thought was right with this state, and my confidence is waning by the day.

The OG&E property is not vacant land like the REHCO property. IIRC the city is paying relocation costs for a data/control center. I don't think that can be ignored.

The OG&E property is not vacant land like the REHCO property. IIRC the city is paying relocation costs for a data/control center. I don't think that can be ignored.

This is true.

Here is what was reported by the Oklahoman:


Because OG&E is a utility, O'Connor said, the city is obligated to replace the gold building in order to acquire the property. Couch said the city's share is "well under" OG&E's total cost.

The gold building appraised in June for $6.7 million. In the deal approved Tuesday, the council agreed to pay up to $7,720,000 over the appraisal to cover moving costs.

I don't know what lengths the city went to in determining that the additional $7.72 million is legitimate but that seems absurdly high given it is just a data center and they City had already paid OG&E $40 million to relocate the substation on top of giving them the land by the river.

BTW, even $6.7 million for just the land comes out to $2.6 million per acre where they had just offered $1.1 million an acre to REHCO then took them to court before dropping the case. (That was $1.1 million per acre not including the various streets and alleys that have subsequently been closed and absorbed into the REHCO holdings. If you include that -- and REHCO argued that you should -- the offer was well below $1 million per acre.)

Also, the City paid much less than this for all the surrounding property, some of which was handled through eminent domain.

OG&E paid $1.3 million an acre for the old Stage Center property.

I will also say that just like the cost of the convention hotel, the City also knew well in advance that the hotel would need a parking garage as part of this deal. They also knew it had to go on the OG&E site.

Omni had just negotiated a very similar deal with Louisville and the parking garage was part of that.

IMO, just another in a very long list of costs the City/Chamber/Alliance didn't divulge while pitching the convention center to voters at $280 million while the price tag is now close to half a billion and steadily rising.

The entire block (apart from the one building on the very NW corner) is now owned by Mazaheri and they have the 2.65 acres for sale for $9.235 million.

Damn gentrification. ......

ya, I was thinking the same thing Rover. OGE has additions to its property that REICO does not so that has to count for something.

Whether it's 5X per capita is another story, that and this has been handled so hush hush and not part of the cc budget - which was the LEAST favourite MAPS III project. .... shady!

If the hotel + Garage + skywalk is so critical to the success of the cc then why are they not included in the CC budget in much the same way as the OMC and Santa Fe renos are included in the Streetcar budget or the cost of acquisition and equipment is included in the Senior Center budget; both projects who have been 'micromanaged' if you will to the tune of cuts to save cost. The CC should be a $450m+ budget and the sources should have been identified along with MAPS III dollars from the very beginning. .. As i mentioned before, shady!

Cusack Meats demands $100K from OKC

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record January 16, 2018

OKLAHOMA CITY – A meat processing company is demanding that Oklahoma City Hall pay more than $100,000 for failed negotiations over land once considered for the MAPS 3 park.

Cusack Wholesale Meats Co. submitted the claim in December, following several years of discussions with city officials over the value of the company’s property on S. Harvey Avenue between SW 11th Street and SW 12th Street.

Cusack alleges that the city, via the Urban Renewal Authority, started condemnation proceedings to acquire the property in 2013. The city later abandoned the plan once it was clear the plant could not be removed without paying several million dollars more than originally intended.

The city’s appraisals of the property concluded those 3 acres were worth about $170,000, far less than the company’s own valuation of $7.6 million.

The discrepancy is partly due to Cusask’s history. A company representative told The Journal Record in late 2016 that city officials failed to take into consideration that the company must meet strict inspection standards under the U.S. Department of Agriculture. Because Cusack Meats has been operating there since 1933, it has been able to make upgrades slowly over time.

The part of Cusack’s property targeted by OCURA involved empty parking lot space used for turning semi-trucks around for dock loading. The site just barely overlapped the 70-acre MAPS 3 park, one of several projects outlined in a $777 million temporary tax issue approved by voters several years ago.

The City Council voted in January 2017 to drop the idea and shift attention to an alternative target. By the end of the year, council members approved the $14 million purchase of property held by Oklahoma Gas & Electric Co. at SW Fourth Street and S. Robinson Avenue. That deal requires that OG&E relocate a control center for power transmission and distribution systems.

City officials would not publicly discuss the issue Tuesday. The City Council entered executive session during the regularly scheduled meeting to receive confidential communications from the municipal attorney to discuss potential litigation of Cusack’s claim.

“The fact of the matter is plain: Cusack was forced to incur significant expenses in order to engage in settlement discussion with the city and OCURA regarding the city’s proposed take,” the company’s filing says. “As a result of the city’s actions, in addition to the exposure to expenses and professional fees, Cusack lost the opportunity to sell its facility and suffered diminution in its value.

“The law, both locally and federally, abhors detriment to landowners as a result of contrived or abandoned eminent domain authority,” the filing says.