So change....move. From your screen name, it looks like you really want to be in LA anyway. LOL. it's the world's shining example of sprawl and anti urban.

Bye.LA is pretty urban in a lot of places from what I've noticed. I'm moving there in March and about to fly out to check on a couple things. I've also been there once and have been exploring it on street pretty extensively. Even the places that aren't urban are better than the urban places here. Their suburbia is done right and is very pretty. There are some rundown areas, but the same is said about every urban and suburban area of the city in the world.

It gets a little frustrating doesn't it. OKC seems to be struggling with the idea of building a city for millennials (who actually prefer historical character) while still marching to the beat of the old guard (aging Baby boomers who want everything new and shinny). Talk about built in obsolescence.

Ah....more conspiracy by classes.

It is possible to have progress and new development and still follow good development rules. To cast a shadow on all baby boomers and blame them isn't the answer. There are plenty of boomers, x'ers, y'ers, and whatever the heck category your are in and prize, who are working to do the right thing.

Is there ANYTHING about the park that the hipsters and the oldsters can agree on, or is this an all or none death match? I understand and agree with wanting to keep the old film exchange building. Other than that, in your opinion is this park a complete waste?

What are the specific changes shown above which you object? Or, would any change be satisfactory? What in the presenter's presentation do you disagree with?

So change....move. From your screen name, it looks like you really want to be in LA anyway. LOL. it's the world's shining example of sprawl and anti urban.

Bye.

Still can't take your own advice about not being condescending, huh? When did he say anything about sprawl? Or the urbanity of OKC? He said the park was sterile. He was very much in support of restoring the Film Exchange. What the hell is you're problem with talking down to everyone like you know everything and everyone else is some child who is wrong? You need some real help with not being a douche to everyone you interact with.


Still a boring sterile park that says nothing about OKC or Oklahoma. Tired of our city destroying our past for "new" things. Tired of nobody with any balls saying no. Tired of this city! Ready for a change!

Curt, we both know you're not going to leave.

I love it.... it is not condescending to call a whole class of people stupid and cowards, but to call someone's bluff on moving is condescending. The drama on here is better than a soap opera.

Poring over the improvements, it amazes me that Hargreaves was able to find the flexibility to move/enlarge some features but remains utterly incapable of making simple changes that would preserve the Salvation Army building and Film Exchange building. Nothing in the schematic would be adversely affected by retaining the two structures.

My advice to fellow Millinenials is to develop plans and visions for MAPS 4 and get yourself appointed to the oversight committee that are created to oversee whatever it is.

Look at John Dodson. What he is doing over on Classen Boulevard will probably end up in the next MAPS or GO Bond vote if he sticks with it.

I am developing plans for more streetcar and light rail.

If you want a Brooklynesque stone bridge in the new park, start advocating now. This city has absolutely no problem tearing out brand new infrastructure and building something else. It often feels like to me we have a continuous "shovel ready" program where anything can be dynamited at any time.

My advice to fellow Millinenials is to develop plans and visions for MAPS 4 and get yourself appointed to the oversight committee that are created to oversee whatever it is.

Look at John Dodson. What he is doing over on Classen Boulevard will probably end up in the next MAPS or GO Bond vote if he sticks with it.

I am developing plans for more streetcar and light rail.

If you want a Brooklynesque stone bridge in the new park, start advocating now. This city has absolutely no problem tearing out brand new infrastructure and building something else. It often feels like to me we have a continuous "shovel ready" program where anything can be dynamited at any time.
aren't they spending a lot of money to build new sidewalks where they are going to be torn out in a few years for the park?

My advice to fellow Millinenials is to develop plans and visions for MAPS 4 and get yourself appointed to the oversight committee that are created to oversee whatever it is.

Look at John Dodson. What he is doing over on Classen Boulevard will probably end up in the next MAPS or GO Bond vote if he sticks with it.

I am developing plans for more streetcar and light rail.

If you want a Brooklynesque stone bridge in the new park, start advocating now. This city has absolutely no problem tearing out brand new infrastructure and building something else. It often feels like to me we have a continuous "shovel ready" program where anything can be dynamited at any time.

I totally agree. Instead of just observing or complaining on web sites and in coffee houses or in bars, take the good ideas and turn them into political activism. I think sometimes we get the victim attitude way too quickly. If it is time to kick out the establishment, then get to work and do that. It really doesn't take that many votes to win council seats and it is possible to get on boards, etc. Having great ideas doesn't create change. Actions create change. Don't just be against things, work FOR things.

Jon Dodson is a GenXer. Sorry, UP. There ARE a couple of us kicking around OKC.

LOLZ. I did not know that.

According to NewsOk, MAPS 3 board approved several hundred thousand to reconstruct Hudson Ave. for the new Convention Center and Central Park

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=10152643044160794

The roads around that park are atrocious.

I'm sure they'll pretty much have to rebuild Robinson as well.

I'm glad they're doing it. Just curious though if 300,000 is enough. Are they just doing asphalt or are they going to do it right with cement?

ODOT and Oklahoma seem to go with asphalt almost always. It ensures that it will require lots of future repairs and keep them busy. Oklahoma and ODOT cheap out on our highways while other states do things correctly from the design to the surface. I think ODOT is corrupt in my opinion, but who knows, maybe they aren't.

There is money in the park budget for the streetscapes along the park itself, so that will help.

ODOT and Oklahoma seem to go with asphalt almost always. It ensures that it will require lots of future repairs and keep them busy. Oklahoma and ODOT cheap out on our highways while other states do things correctly from the design to the surface. I think ODOT is corrupt in my opinion, but who knows, maybe they aren't.

Florida uses asphalt in a large majority of their streets and highways. They don't have the extreme toe rather variations that we do, however.

Asphalt is cheaper up front but needs to be replaced or at the very least resurfaced more often.

Florida uses asphalt in a large majority of their streets and highways. They don't have the extreme toe rather variations that we do, however.

Asphalt is cheaper up front but needs to be replaced or at the very least resurfaced more often.ODOT has mainly been using cement is seems lately, but I don't understand why the would do something like use cement for the new Crosstown then use asphalt for the service roads... it makes no sense. Same thing with the new Norman I-35. they used cement for Main St. and the overpass, than went with asphalt for the highway. I don't understand why that is.

Cement looks better, last longer in most cases, and is more durable.

The decrease in the price of Oil should decrease the cost of asphalt significantly, correct?

Concrete is pretty much mandated with anything using federal funding, such as the new I-40.

But the City generally cheaps out on everything else by using asphalt.

One of the reasons for the P180 crosswalk painting snafu was that the City selected the same paint they use on asphalt and it didn't stick properly to concrete.

Concrete is pretty much mandated with anything using federal funding, such as the new I-40.

But the City generally cheaps out on everything else by using asphalt.

One of the reasons for the P180 crosswalk painting snafu was that the City selected the same paint they use on asphalt and it didn't stick properly to concrete.I have been pleasantly surprised though, much of the new roads in northwest OKC that have been widened have been reconstructed in cement. The new Portland alignment by the airport is cement to. New if we can just get the city to add medians and turn lanes, we'll be getting somewhere!

Makes sense about the new Crosstown. But why did they use asphalt for the service roads?

ODOT has mainly been using cement is seems lately, but I don't understand why the would do something like use cement for the new Crosstown then use asphalt for the service roads... it makes no sense. Same thing with the new Norman I-35. they used cement for Main St. and the overpass, than went with asphalt for the highway. I don't understand why that is.

Cement looks better, last longer in most cases, and is more durable.

It's simple in my mind. They spend less and get to come back in a couple years and close off part of the highway so they can re-do it. It is part of a vicious cycle that the state has done for years. It is the reason why we have some of the worst roads in America and people comment about it all the time. In other states, they spend more up front so it doesn't cost more later. In OK, we cheap out and pay more later, and later, and later, and later, and you get the point. ODOT knows this, but it is in their interest to keep it the same. MONEY!

From William Crum


The MAPS 3 Citizens Advisory Board voted Thursday in favor of spending $390,000 to get started on reconstructing Hudson Avenue on the park’s west side and installing a new sewer line through the park.

It’s the sewer line that will create the giant hole, along what is now SW 7 Street.

The 90-inch sewer line will be installed 20 feet below ground in a trench up to 30 feet wide, said David Todd, the MAPS 3 program manager.

For perspective, a 90-inch sewer line is just shy of 8 feet in circumference, the height of many living room ceilings.

Todd said the sewer line will be installed in anticipation of new development in a southwest downtown neighborhood comprising about 24 square blocks. Tearing up the park to install the line in five years would make no sense, he said.

Planners anticipate development in an area west of the park, defined by Hudson Avenue on the east, Western Avenue on the west, Interstate 40 to the south, and the new downtown boulevard to the north.

Edges of the neighborhood along Hudson, closest to the park, are included in architects’ drawings of what’s being called the Convention Center District.

The new district is expected to grow around the 40-acre upper park, with its lake and fountains, and near the MAPS 3 convention center being built between the new park and Myriad Botanical Gardens.

Looking south from the Devon Energy tower to the Oklahoma River in five years, the view will include Myriad Gardens, the glass-enclosed convention center, the upper park, the SkyDance bridge, and the lower park, expected to offer a natural setting for walking and bicycling.

New development along Robinson and Hudson avenues adjacent to the park is expected to include homes, retail businesses, offices and hotels.

- Oklahoma City is getting ready for downtown growth | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-is-getting-ready-for-downtown-growth/article/5387095)

Here is a good summary of the phasing of the park, followed by some nice renderings of the lower park:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/centralparkphases.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark020715a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/lowerpark020715b.jpg

So there won't be any sports fields anymore?

Still looks amazing, and it becomes a more continuous park this way. If Wheeler Park is ever redeveloped there will be a severe need for youth sporting venues though.

Anybody know when they are going to tear down the old Salvation Army building?

Anybody know when they are going to tear down the old Salvation Army building?

Very soon.

They just let the contracts.

I noticed out my office window that the demo has started on the old salvation army building.

Demolition has commenced on the old Salvation Army complex (thanks to jeep for the photos):



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/salvation070515a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/salvation070515b.jpg

those demo pictures of the Salvation Army Building hurt my heart. I knew there was no hope of saving it but still, it was such a beautiful building.
I was so completely surprised by it the first time I rode by it on my bike. such an unexpected gem...

Saw this update at the council meeting today so thought it would be good for reference and to keep everyone updated. http://www.okc.gov/councilnotes/2015/090115files/park%20presentation.pdf
At the very end it does show two graphics on why the film row building wouldn't work.https://youtu.be/U87hDMiF9lA?t=1h28m5s

Saw this update at the council meeting today so thought it would be good for reference and to keep everyone updated. http://www.okc.gov/councilnotes/2015/090115files/park%20presentation.pdf
At the very end it does show two graphics on why the film row building wouldn't work.https://youtu.be/U87hDMiF9lA?t=1h28m5s

OKC Central Park will be a 'quality of life' game-changer...

I'm sorry but I just don't think it would take much to make the buildings work if they were properly motivated (e.g. the city said "just make it work).

The only thing I can see from the last two pages in that presentation as to potentially insurmountable challenges with keeping the Film Exchange building is that the 12' sidewalk they want along Robinson would be crammed down to roughly 5', and it would prevent the installation of street lighting and trees in front of the building because of ADA limits. They could potentially keep the building and just not install the street lighting or trees in front of the building. They would have to redesign that section to move the Promenade and the weekend market/event foodservice area however. Of course, if done right, the building could also be used for these purposes if the lower level was opened up to the park in some way.

The sidewalk/lighting/tree issue is potentially a pretty big problem... the rest of it is relatively easily fixable.

As for the overall design of the park... Honestly, I love it and I can't wait to see work begin on the areas not immediately surrounding the Film Exchange.

There are things that can be done to mitigate, such as mount the lights on the building... or have an ADA sidewalk going west of the building. It's such a small stretch of the park to accommodate... we're not asking for wholesale redesign...

it's sad but watching the video she goes through every thought on what went into this building and I think the current effort is to little to late if what she says is true.
Another thing I noticed is the street view of the new boulevard doesn't show any bike lanes like their Robinson street view does so I hope that's just because they don't have the current designs. I do think it's a fantastic idea to use the lake as the water source and design the park that bioflitrstion will help feed all the water back into the lake.

Here are the two slides on the Film Exchange Building.

As always, when there is a will to save historic buildings, there is always a way. Just no will here, obviously.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/centralpark090215a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/centralpark090215b.jpg

Easy fix, just remove the car parking from in front of the buildings... They just don't want to do it. The city should have told them to design around the structures instead of giving them free reign.

Isn't four feet the minimum sidewalk width to be ADA compliant? Twelve feet is nice and all, but I don't think it's necessary for it to be that wide.

99% of people have never heard about this building. Face it, NOBODY CARES.

99% of people have never heard about this building. Face it, NOBODY CARES.

Well, 99% of people have never heard your family home either. But we probably shouldn't let them run a bulldozer through your front door.

Saw this update at the council meeting today so thought it would be good for reference and to keep everyone updated. http://www.okc.gov/councilnotes/2015/090115files/park%20presentation.pdf
At the very end it does show two graphics on why the film row building wouldn't work.https://youtu.be/U87hDMiF9lA?t=1h28m5s

This comment isn't directed at you, but what a load of horse manuer. If this design firm can't figure out how to incorporate 2 buildings into a food service estabilshment then it is because they don't want to - not because it is too challenging to figure out.

The easy fix is to just go through the building and make the parkside an open air arcade like the buildings north of The Louvre.

I think Pete said it best in that there was no will to save it. Watching the video she seemed to have every excuse on why it wouldn't work. Interesting you mentioned something open air because that was a reason it didn't fit in the park plan in that all their new buildings would be open air type concepts, which I think would work well with this building.
But in the end I am excited about the park. I think it will have just about something for everyone but hopefully not be too coordinated that it feels empty if something isn't going on. I know we are years from a possible announcement but I can't wait to see urban housing spring up on the park frontage. I really hope the council sets up some sort of design standard for this area to help form a very comprehensive district.

The easy fix is to just go through the building and make the parkside an open air arcade like the buildings north of The Louvre.

I'm sorry, but you obviously haven't been there. This is a ridiculous comparison to make. This is like saying we can make Taft Stadium like Jerry World if we just hang a HDTV over the field.

It's kind of a farce at this point, especially when you have supposedly exemplar landscape architects pretending we would lose the revenue-generating beverage area, which did we mention is revenue-generating?

It doesn't exist yet. The Film Exchange Building still does, for now. That's something we will actually lose, unlike the promenade and beverage area (an outdoor beverage area?) that can be thoughtfully penciled in somewhere else.

It's kind of a farce at this point, especially when you have supposedly exemplar landscape architects pretending we would lose the revenue-generating beverage area, which did we mention is revenue-generating?

It doesn't exist yet. The Film Exchange Building still does, for now. That's something we will actually lose, unlike the promenade and beverage area (an outdoor beverage area?) that can be thoughtfully penciled in somewhere else.

Spartan, it would be impossible to squeeze it in somewhere else in only a 40 acre area. :)

I'm sorry, but you obviously haven't been there. This is a ridiculous comparison to make. This is like saying we can make Taft Stadium like Jerry World if we just hang a HDTV over the field.

Peace out Rover.

These 2 buildings, or at least the Film Exchange building would be good facilities to house the park lawn and garden care equipment, or any other maintenance equipment for that matter. No way it would cost more to repurpose these instead of building from scratch. Their biggest argument is the width of the sidewalk on Robinson. Just remove about 5 curb side parking spaces and problem solved.

The bottom line is they just don't want to use them.

it comes down to this.. you can find reasons to justify scrapping them.. or you can find solutions to keep them.. they chose the former.

99% of people have never heard about this building. Face it, NOBODY CARES.

I do think you're right that many people in OKC do not care about how it is developed and it shows. However, thankfully, the 1% that do care have given us Bricktown, Midtown, Uptown, Paseo, Automobile Alley, and the Plaza district.

Peace out Rover.

Please stop doing this.

I know it isn't an elegant re-use, but what about using this building for public restrooms & water fountains. It would serve the great lawn area.

Please stop doing this.

While it is quite childish, any time Rover responds to anyone on this board I feel the same way. Easily the biggest dick here. Absolutely zero respect given to anyone.

I have great respect for any number who post here. To name a few: Spartan, Urbanized, Pete and plenty others. I appreciate comments, suggestions and action based on reality and experience and probably have way too little patience for pie in the sky and rigidly dogmatic comments that aren't founded in real world realities. If my responses sometimes come off as biting, I apologize.

I have great respect for any number who post here. To name a few: Spartan, Urbanized, Pete and plenty others. I appreciate comments, suggestions and action based on reality and experience and probably have way too little patience for pie in the sky and rigidly dogmatic comments that aren't founded in real world realities. If my responses sometimes come off as biting, I apologize.

Real world realities on an internet web forum? That's like hanging a giant HDTV in a daycare and suddenly having Jerry's World. Did I do that right? No, I don't think I did.

Posting on here isn't a career, and it's definitely not some sort of board meeting. It's a discussion forum, and excellent ideas can form from "pie in the sky" discussions. Many successful business plans were "pie in the sky" ideas written on bar napkins at 1am over cocktails with coworkers or investors. Many excellent ideas come from day dreaming outlandish ideas, discussing them, refining them, polishing the corners, ironing out the kinks, and executing some form of the original idea.

People are thinking out loud. Like any brainstorming event, bad ideas are the only ones not discussed. JTF suggested that we cut the walls that are interior to the park, and make open air structures out of them. Your response is that is the same idea as making Jerry World out of Taft Stadium? WTF?

JTF suggested that we cut the walls that are interior to the park, and make open air structures out of them. Your response is that is the same idea as making Jerry World out of Taft Stadium? WTF?
It wasn't the idea of cutting the walls out...that might be a good idea. It was comparing the result of doing that to create an area comparable to the area next to the Louvre that I was commenting on. To anyone who has been there, they would understand the absurdity of the comparison. Since many might have visited Jerry World, they would get the relative absurdity of my suggestion. To those who haven't visited either...well they might not get it at all.

It wasn't the idea of cutting the walls out...that might be a good idea. It was comparing the result of doing that to create an area comparable to the area next to the Louvre that I was commenting on. To anyone who has been there, they would understand the absurdity of the comparison. Since many might have visited Jerry World, they would get the relative absurdity of my suggestion. To those who haven't visited either...well they might not get it at all.

Actually, I'm sure that Kerry has been there. I agree it's hardly a good comparison though.

Sometimes some people try so hard to sell their ideas that they wind up making absurd statements that might appear rational to those without knowledge or experience, but they lose credibility with anyone who actually knows reality. They should just present their good ideas. JTF has good ideas and is well read and I respect him for that. I'll leave it at that.

It wasn't the idea of cutting the walls out...that might be a good idea. It was comparing the result of doing that to create an area comparable to the area next to the Louvre that I was commenting on. To anyone who has been there, they would understand the absurdity of the comparison. Since many might have visited Jerry World, they would get the relative absurdity of my suggestion. To those who haven't visited either...well they might not get it at all.

You seriously need to re-read what he wrote. To avoid any confusion:


The easy fix is to just go through the building and make the parkside an open air arcade like the buildings north of The Louvre.

Stretching that to "an area comparable to the area next to the Louve" is absurd logical acrobatics. This what he really said:


The easy fix is to just go through the building and make the parkside an open air arcade like the buildings north of The Louvre are also an open air arcade.

But if you're already convinced that someone always spews outlandish ideas, you're predisposed to an erroneous reading.

I have great respect for any number who post here. To name a few: Spartan, Urbanized, Pete and plenty others. I appreciate comments, suggestions and action based on reality and experience and probably have way too little patience for pie in the sky and rigidly dogmatic comments that aren't founded in real world realities. If my responses sometimes come off as biting, I apologize.

And I'm difficult to have respect for, so that's saying something. :P

You seriously need to re-read what he wrote. To avoid any confusion:



Stretching that to "an area comparable to the area next to the Louve" is absurd logical acrobatics. This what he really said:



But if you're already convinced that someone always spews outlandish ideas, you're predisposed to an erroneous reading.

In that both Taft and Jerry World are football stadiums, I guess I can concede that the open film exchange building would be like across the street from the Louvre and gardens. LOL. Whatever you choose to defend and double down on is your deal.