Thanks to SkyWestOkc for bringing this to our attention; I thought this deserves it's own thread topic.

http://okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/1yjrax55xjcjyq55gpvokc55/112837301272011104545345.PDF

Looks like a major retail / commercial development is being proposed for this area. This could be very good for South Okc and the entire metro core. Plans for 4 hotels, a town center, and office space. Definitely a good idea especially since the land is already owned by the city and could easily be developed for a large project Something like the Midwest City Town Center redevelopment would look very good here.

Hi, okclee,

Can you please repost that link? It doesn't seem to be working.

Thx!

Repost the link I posted, since the link changes depending on the user -- uses cookies. Post the same one I did to get around that. I would but I'm on my phone.

try this link
http://okc.gov/AgendaPub/cache/2/svt1wv55i2c0s055xqulh4rp/112837301272011123154991.PDF

http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/view.aspx?cabinet=published_meetings&fileid=1128373

My neck hurts.

Can retail actually go that close to a runway?

Yes. The runway building limit doesn't go more than about 1000 feet from the runway centerline on each side.

It just seems that a lot of large airports are out in the middle of nowhere unless they're airports like Midway in Chicago or LaGuardia in NYC. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see that area across from OKTripC fill in!

Yes. The runway building limit doesn't go more than about 1000 feet from the runway centerline on each side.True regarding clear zone. From there, building height allowances are based on a slope away from the edge of the clear zone...I think it's 7:1.

My neck hurts.

^^Ha,I didnt understand what you meant until I read that report!lol

It just seems that a lot of large airports are out in the middle of nowhere unless they're airports like Midway in Chicago or LaGuardia in NYC. Don't get me wrong, I'd like to see that area across from OKTripC fill in!

Ever been to Miami, San Diego, Atlanta, NYC, Vegas, etc.?

This certainly is a strange project. I am puzzled by the emphasis on the stated need for home improvement stores in South OKC. This will be effectively parallel with a freeway (240) that has both a Lowe's and a Home Depot located just 4 miles (and probably less than 4 minutes) to the east of this project.

I wonder what kind of public funding this is looking at, being that the airport is the developer it appears. They do seem to be thinking about the right kind of development to make a visual impact on people coming through OKC, with zero setback and parking in the rear stated explicitly.

It's a very interesting plan...and very large scale. I wonder what makes them think they can develop that much land when there are other plots in the area set up for sale as office space that continue to be for sale 10 years later. Look at 54th and Meridian, that sucker's been for sale for EVER, and it's much smaller.

Personally, i would not approve of any public funding for it though. If someone wants to develop that land, then they need to reach into their pocket. 240 isn't hurting for retail or anything, and they apparently didn't do a very good demographic analysis. It's one thing to say, hey since it's next to an airport, surely we can put 4 hotels in. Except, did you look at how many hotels are on Meridian and the city is focussing on any more in the area being built on the river.

One thing that's interesting is, we had a representative from Dell in our office last week. When he was looking for a hotel for 1 night (he flew from Austin and had no idea where in the state OKC was....yeah), he said the closest room he could get was on NW Exway. So either he was a moron, or all of the hotel rooms were sold out that one night...i'm thinking moron.

hink the S.W area is going to expode in population soon, drive down S.W 134th street and they are tearing up land left and right for new housing and thre is also a new integris medical place going in off I-44, plus I think they will attract some people from the newcastle area.. Its a good idea, if it is planned right, I hope it doesnt turn out to be like the UNP in norman

hink the S.W area is going to expode in population soon, drive down S.W 134th street and they are tearing up land left and right for new housing and thre is also a new integris medical place going in off I-44, plus I think they will attract some people from the newcastle area.. Its a good idea, if it is planned right, I hope it doesnt turn out to be like the UNP in norman

Well, the area I think has huge potential is south of the airport and west of I-44... there are already a few new neighborhoods going in, mostly upscale, but it's a huge, mostly pristine area. I wish it could stay the way it is, but it will probably get gobbled up by sprawl soon. I'd be in favor of keeping the growth on the east side of I-44.

It is a weird site though because the other side of I-44 just feels very detached from the Westmoore area.

I think retail would do very well there....you have the college across the street, the airport (very large employment center plus an activity hub), people coming back to the suburbs southbound in the evening after work, plus all of the development southwest of OKC. Plus, I would love some restaurants that I can get something to eat during lunch or in the morning on the way to work without having to go out of my way to get it. This has potential -- calling it a strange project, I'm not sure I'd label it that. It's a very ambitious project, though.

Those worried about it being public funded...it's not. Except for basic infrastructure costs (I.E. roads and utilities). My understanding is tenants will be building their own buildings and must have them approved by the airport to the standards that were set for this development. Not much dissimilar from other airport projects. The airport leases the land to the tenant, for example to build a hangar, the business pays the costs to build according to FAA and airport standards, and then it is done. The airport might help pay for infrastructure to the property for the tenant, but isn't paying to build the facility. The only difference here will be: FAA approval for projects won't be needed.

This is a smart move by the airport -- all this land won't be developed for aviation use. We have more land than we will ever need at WRWA. Taking out this portion allocated for this, we still have a ton of land. This "investment" will pay off in the long run. The land in question, generates maybe $1,000 a year in leases to agriculture companies or farmers who use it to grow hay, or keep cows on. In turn, after it is developed, you will have a ton of yearly and monthly leases going into the airport fund. Which will help pay for the things the airport does and needs. The greater the budget, the more money can be spent on facility maintenance (among other things obviously) for example -- which is one thing that WRWA seems to always be criticized for. Basically turning land that makes nothing, into something that can make a lot more to help fund the airport.

Where can I find info on this? None of the links work for me and I am not finding anything except OKCTalk when I Google it.

Where can I find info on this? None of the links work for me and I am not finding anything except OKCTalk when I Google it.I think I found it by:
1. Go to http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/meet.aspx
2. Click on the view link at "Wednesday Jan 26, 2011 10:30 AM OKC Airport Trust"
3. Click on the Pdf link at " Receive the Marketing Strategy Final Report for th - 11Jan26-LeighFisher-MktgStrategyRpt.pdf"

Some development surrounding the airport would be great so that visitors don't think they have just flown into the middle of nowhere.

Wish I had taken the time to take pics when the airport was under construction...the plywood lean-too type shelters at the entrance etc. Sure it made a huge impression on visitors and fed into a lot of stereotypes.

Wish I had taken the time to take pics when the airport was under construction...the plywood lean-too type shelters at the entrance etc. Sure it made a huge impression on visitors and fed into a lot of stereotypes.

You must not travel much. I've been to several places where there's ongoing, major construction (Dallas, Denver, Seattle, Alanta) this type of temporary cover is nomal in the commercial construction industry. I do give you credit for trying to making an issue out of a non-issue.

well said RC

Some development surrounding the airport would be great so that visitors don't think they have just flown into the middle of nowhere.

agreed

Some development surrounding the airport would be great so that visitors don't think they have just flown into the middle of nowhere.

Hahaha. Actually, my impression every time I fly into OKC during the winter is, "Wow, this place really does look like Mars."

agreed Me too Grant.

Hahaha. Actually, my impression every time I fly into OKC during the winter is, "Wow, this place really does look like Mars."

Sort of like flying into Denver, or Salt Lake City.

I think I found it by:
1. Go to http://www.okc.gov/AgendaPub/meet.aspx
2. Click on the view link at "Wednesday Jan 26, 2011 10:30 AM OKC Airport Trust"
3. Click on the Pdf link at " Receive the Marketing Strategy Final Report for th - 11Jan26-LeighFisher-MktgStrategyRpt.pdf"
Yep...thanks for that!!

I may be looked at as the nit-picker here, but I don't think OKC is in the "midde of nowhere." You see an entire city during the daytime, and at night time an entire city with a gazillion lights while you're on approach, so that doesn't give me the impression that I have landed in the middle of nowhere. OKC is a mere 7 miles from downtown. Denver actually gives you that feeling, or an airport like Montreal Mirabel would. If you really wanted to explore you could just fly to London Stanstead and take one of the many Ryanair flights that actually do go to airports far removed from "their" cities. ;) Every airport doesn't have to be a La Guardia or a Midway to keep it from being in the middle of nowhere. Just my two cents worth :)

If you like a developed airport area try Newark. I'll take Denver or OKC.

I've thought for years that a restaurant on the E side of the airport, with views of both N and S (think 1/2 moon shaped) would be an AWESOME idea. I love anything having to do with aviation and being able to have a great meal while watching the airport operate would be so much fun.

I would also love it if they had an observation area where you could just hang out. Think of how fun it would be to ride a bike, motorcycle or scooter there, climb up to the roof and hang out. They could have both a snack bar and a real bar to serve alcohol, beer, and non-alcoholic fruit smoothies all in the same location. They could have tables to sit and chat with friends, play board games or just watch the airport operations.

I've thought for years that a restaurant on the E side of the airport, with views of both N and S (think 1/2 moon shaped) would be an AWESOME idea. I love anything having to do with aviation and being able to have a great meal while watching the airport operate would be so much fun.

I would also love it if they had an observation area where you could just hang out. Think of how fun it would be to ride a bike, motorcycle or scooter there, climb up to the roof and hang out. They could have both a snack bar and a real bar to serve alcohol, beer, and non-alcoholic fruit smoothies all in the same location. They could have tables to sit and chat with friends, play board games or just watch the airport operations.

I remember eating at a restaurant exactly like that on the south side of the old Stapleton Airport in Denver. It was a lot of fun. It didn't have a roof hangout area, however.

Is that even possible after 911? Seems to get anywhere in the airport (beyond the ticket counters), have to be a ticketed passenger and go thru security. Can't go the the eating places or shops (except for the kiosk type in the lobby)

On edit, are you talking about a location off of the terminal? Where would that be that you could see the runways etc?

Is that even possible after 911? Seems to get anywhere in the airport (beyond the ticket counters), have to be a ticketed passenger and go thru security. Can't go the the eating places or shops (except for the kiosk type in the lobby)

On edit, are you talking about a location off of the terminal? Where would that be that you could see the runways etc?

Off terminal, East of the airport (between the airport and I-44)

There are still many airports with observation decks or areas. HAS (Houston Airports System) has designated areas at both the Hobby and Intercontinental Airports (all of which happen to lie at the end of some runway), Austin Bergstrom has an entire viewing area located right next to the east runway (17L-35R), Dallas Ft. Worth has the new Founders Plaza on the northwest side (used to be on the southeast side adjacent to a busy taxiway and close to the center runway), MSP has its observation deck. Unfortunately our airport has none of those. I would like to see an observation area as part of that new development as well. Oh well, wishful thinking lol.

There are still many airports with observation decks or areas. HAS (Houston Airports System) has designated areas at both the Hobby and Intercontinental Airports (all of which happen to lie at the end of some runway), Austin Bergstrom has an entire viewing area located right next to the east runway (17L-35R), Dallas Ft. Worth has the new Founders Plaza on the northwest side (used to be on the southeast side adjacent to a busy taxiway and close to the center runway), MSP has its observation deck. Unfortunately our airport has none of those. I would like to see an observation area as part of that new development as well. Oh well, wishful thinking lol.
Wow...I had no idea so many airports had this. Awesome!

Commercial land uses explored by Oklahoma City Airport Trust
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 09:34 PM Monday, January 31, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – Will Rogers World Airport officials believe the flat grassland east of the airport could eventually support new commercial development, including as many as three hotels and a shopping center.

The Oklahoma City Airport Trust controls about 8,000 acres of land between SW 54th and SW 104th streets, stretching from the airport to Interstate 44.

The airport trust currently leases out some of the vacant land for agricultural uses, but wants to develop the area as a way to boost airport revenues, as well as create new jobs, support existing businesses around the airport and boost city sales tax revenues, Will Rogers World Airport Director Mark Kranenburg said.

Airport officials have plans to relocate S. Portland Avenue just east of its current location, closer to Interstate 44, widening the two-lane road to four lanes between SW 74th and SW 89th streets. The plan would make S. Portland more inviting to commercial development, Kranenburg said. Engineering work on the new roadway is expected to get under way within the next few months, he said.

“The plan is to create this new spine road and ultimately, development will be based on what the demand is,” Kranenburg said.

A land use study commissioned by airport officials found there is enough demand in the area to support a small, village-type shopping center near the area around S. Portland Avenue and SW 74th Street with about 350,000 square feet of retail space.

“The idea for this concept would include fairly moderate-priced anchors in a retail village that is pedestrian-friendly and that provides some of the basic shopping choices that families in that area need,” said Sharon Woods, principal of the Michigan-consulting firm LandUse|USA, which helped prepare the airport study in conjunction with management consultant group Leigh|Fisher.

To succeed, the shopping center would have to have support from several large anchor tenants, including major grocery chains, as well as a major discount department store.

The study also found there is a demand for a home improvement store, such as a Home Depot, in the area.

The area also could support two or three chain hotels, including an extended-stay suite type of hotel; a moderately priced full-service hotel; and a value-type hotel. There also is room for a cluster of supporting businesses such as a gas station and restaurants around S. Portland Avenue and SW 89th Street, and up to 170,000 square feet of office space.

It could take years, even decades for the area around the airport to attract such development, said Kirk Humphreys, former Oklahoma City mayor and vice chairman of the Oklahoma City Airport Trust.

“It’s good to have master plans; however, most of the time the final outcome doesn’t look like the plan – it’s a flexible framework that can guide us,” Humphreys said. “It may take 20 or 30 years for that area to mature.”

I am getting a strong vibe that Kirk is a big player in this deal.

That last quote is where we all relize that it's not going to happen. So the development is a 30 year masterplan. Even he says it won't look like that. Something that large never turns out like planned....take a look at that lovely shopping center in Norman...hmmm. For them to attract the businesses they think are going to want to be there, is going to take a lot of work that I just don't see happening. Now, I would LOVE to see it happen, i'm just extremely skeptical of it. What i thought was a planned out private development that was ready to start, turns out to just be a drawing someone did with a lot of demographic data. And the demographic data is read poorly anyway. If you're trying to focus new development around an expanding area, then you're several miles too far north. You can go South near 149th or whatever, find cheaper land, and be right there at your target consumer. There are too many other options for these developements in the area already....you're doubling up with this thing. Go farther down 44 and you're all of a sudden the big player. You may not get as much land, but if it's going to take 20 years to develop it, by the time you finish (which it wont'), you're outdated. It's just too much.

Well, the entire masterplan development should take a while (which contains a ton of land) but I think they are ready to allow development early on. The construction of the new Portland Ave. will begin sometime this year.

That last quote is where we all relize that it's not going to happen. So the development is a 30 year masterplan. Even he says it won't look like that. Something that large never turns out like planned....take a look at that lovely shopping center in Norman...hmmm. For them to attract the businesses they think are going to want to be there, is going to take a lot of work that I just don't see happening. Now, I would LOVE to see it happen, i'm just extremely skeptical of it. What i thought was a planned out private development that was ready to start, turns out to just be a drawing someone did with a lot of demographic data. And the demographic data is read poorly anyway. If you're trying to focus new development around an expanding area, then you're several miles too far north. You can go South near 149th or whatever, find cheaper land, and be right there at your target consumer. There are too many other options for these developements in the area already....you're doubling up with this thing. Go farther down 44 and you're all of a sudden the big player. You may not get as much land, but if it's going to take 20 years to develop it, by the time you finish (which it wont'), you're outdated. It's just too much.

It all relies on the economy, bomber. When things are good like they were a few years ago, and like they're beginning to become again as things start to heat up around town again, "30 year masterplans" are conservative timelines for work that will be done. When the economy is bad like it has been lately, it means "aint gonna happen just yet."

When things are good though, if you blink, you'll miss an entire area of town going up at once. I think my parents area of the city (between 89th and 149th) was virtually 90% built all at once between 85-95. I just try and imagine what all of that construction must have been like back then. Kind of like the Quail Springs/West Edmond area right now. OKC has always grown in big spurts. We just gotta get ready and do all the planning pre-spurt so things go smoothly and we get a better product this time, or at least better than the usual rum-dum sprawl for the sake of just getting financing approval (which is a very bad thing to have dictate a project).

I could envision a town center type development in Midwest City over and that all came to fruition in not even 10 years. So it could happen if they are really serious about it.

I am getting a strong vibe that Kirk is a big player in this deal.

Oh Great, another "he's more successful than I hater".

I don't know what Spartan's feelings towards "Kirk" are, but what about his statement implies he is a "hater"? Seems rather neutral to me.

I could envision a town center type development in Midwest City over and that all came to fruition in not even 10 years. So it could happen if they are really serious about it.

Town Center had the support of the city and a HUGE investment already put together from the sale of the hospital though. So the financing was there and the city was on board to clear the area out. If OKC was onboard the same way, this thing could move FAST. One advantage this area has is that it wouldn't have to be cleared of homes/businesses like Town Center did. But it's soooo big, that just the infrastrucutre is going to be a huge investment.

I know I sound like a Debbie Downer, but please don't think I'm against it. I would LOVE to see this thing develop, but after reading the pdf more, it just doesn't seem like it's been organized as much as it needs to....it's not even phased well to get started and build up.

It all relies on the economy, bomber. When things are good like they were a few years ago, and like they're beginning to become again as things start to heat up around town again, "30 year masterplans" are conservative timelines for work that will be done. When the economy is bad like it has been lately, it means "aint gonna happen just yet."

When things are good though, if you blink, you'll miss an entire area of town going up at once. I think my parents area of the city (between 89th and 149th) was virtually 90% built all at once between 85-95. I just try and imagine what all of that construction must have been like back then. Kind of like the Quail Springs/West Edmond area right now. OKC has always grown in big spurts. We just gotta get ready and do all the planning pre-spurt so things go smoothly and we get a better product this time, or at least better than the usual rum-dum sprawl for the sake of just getting financing approval (which is a very bad thing to have dictate a project).

Spartan: True that, my ex-father-in-law lived at 149th and S. May - in 1978, there was hardly anything down that way, even at the next mile(s) to the North.
Now, that area is still not developed a lot, but the miles to the north and east are. 149th and I-35 hardly recognizable from what it was in 1978 :).

Interesting discussion in the Moore thread about Cabelas. Someone posted as if knowing a few details to the needs of a Cabelas store.

In regards to Moore;
Sorry to disappoint but Cabelas probably won’t be coming ever, this is because they want 50 acres donated to them plus 2 million handed to them up front and the city will not just give them 2 million plus no one just wants to give them that much land.

I thought this area, WWRA east side development could be a good fit for Cabelas and I think Okc could meet their demands here too.

Could, but would? They're so similar to Bass Pro, i wonder if there was a stipulation in that contract? Or would the city get into a deal like that again that most tax payers were not a fan of.

Looks to me they are envisioning the area to develop similar to I-35 & 19th in Moore. I live near 104th & May and yeah, it's a 20-minute drive over to I-35. There is also a lot of commuter traffic that goes thru there on I-44 coming up from fast-growing McClain county (Blanchard, Tuttle, Bridge Creek, Newcastle), plus that whole "westmoore" area of OKC from the river up to OKCCC. Put in a JCP, Kohl's, Petsmart, Cheddars, etc. I think it could succeed, this area of town has money...

I'll miss the cows though.

No. They aren't planning a strip-mall. They are looking to make it urban. 2-story, ground floor retail, top floor offices, parking in back or along the side instead of in front. More like I40 and Sooner road.

Had dinner with a friend of mine who has been involved in some meetings having to do with us. He didn't go into much detail but he said talks are somewhat heating up and there is definitely a chance this happens. Anyone else heard anything?

Well there's a 100% chance this will happen at some point in time. The main driver of this will be Portland Ave. relocation. Which has already been given the Notice to Proceed by the Airport Trust and OKC Public Works. It is estimated to be done Sept 30, 2013. Until Portland is relocated, there won't be much done.

More info. http://flyokc.com/CurrentProjectDetails.aspx?ID=d1e190c1-5a91-45f4-838f-91c446600935

Portland Ave. from S.W. 54th street to just south of the ARINC hangar (where it veers off southeast of the current alignment, as seen in the image on the website) will be resurfaced in the next couple of months.

So why are they going to resurface something that's been neglected for decades, if they are about to yank the whole thing out and move it?

So why are they going to resurface something that's been neglected for decades, if they are about to yank the whole thing out and move it?

The resurfacing will be approximately 1/2 mile, at most, and only to serve new businesses. The relocation is about 3 full miles worth of street.

Yeah. I bet that the resurfacing will go all the way down to Atlantic. About 1/4 mi south of ARINC. But Portland will veer off to the east near ARINC. So it will probably be a cul-de-sac at Atlantic.

OK, so they're just doing the ends of it minus the part that's moving then? Makes more sense. It also explains more as to why so much effort had been put into Portland the last few years just north of there. I still have reservations on how part of this project is going to fly (haha pun), but I'm all for something that can help build up the area.

One down side is that you won't be able to speedily bypass I-44 on Portland anymore. Getting from Meridian to 89th was sometimes faster on Portland if I was trying to get something in that area rather than 240 if the traffic was bad. And when they had 54th and Portland both closed....oh man it sucked.

It looks to me that will be retail that is geared towards the needs of the airport and airport travelers. I don't think you are going to see a discount or department stores.

It looks to me that will be retail that is geared towards the needs of the airport and airport travelers.

Why do you think that? I've seen nothing to indicate that it will be purposed that way.

Yeah everything i've seen makes it look more like any other unspecial reatil area...Home Depot, for example. Now what I did see was west side of Portland would have things like that because of easy access to the runway area, but that won't be true of the east side of the road.