Courtyard Austin Downtown/Convention Center

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/austincourtyard1.jpg

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Street View (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=courtyard&aq=&sll=30.265728,-97.740427&sspn=0.000806,0.00136&ie=UTF8&t=h&rq=1&ev=zi&split=1&radius=0.05&hq=courtyard&hnear=&ll=30.265543,-97.740875&spn=0.000853,0.00136&z=20&layer=c&cbll=30.265386,-97.740522&panoid=CCUd7Xig0AUoWT3F3GbiiQ&cbp=12,350.49,,0,-17.34)

Continuing to allow projects like the residence inn would've eroded its whole reason of being. It's not worth visiting if it is like every other place in the city and the only way to ensure that it stays unique is if they enforce and maintain some design standards. I definitely think it would be better were bricktown to die of its own merits rather than kill it with cheap compromise after cheap compromise just for the sake of infill. At least the former gives it a chance to be something special that attracts quality projects in the future, even if it takes waiting a little longer for the right developers to come along that actually believe in the area instead of just wanting to milk the area for a few years then flip for a profit that was generated largely on the savings created by the substandard design quality and materials used to build it.

Anything south of Reno is not in the Bricktown core and falls outside of the design review. The Residence was not approved by the design committee.

I think if they get desperate and relax the standards they will become irrelevant faster than if no new development occurs. Its success has a lot to do with its image and if they compromise that, they will lose the biggest asset they have. The reality is that it can survive on what it has right now for a long time. It would actually be better, from a marketability standpoint, if it stayed small with no new development and retained its appeal through its character rather than junk it up with cookie cutter projects. And there is actually plenty of space in and around downtown to do that if developers don't like the community involvement in its projects.

Continuing to allow projects like the residence inn would've eroded its whole reason of being. It's not worth visiting if it is like every other place in the city and the only way to ensure that it stays unique is if they enforce and maintain some design standards. I definitely think it would be better were bricktown to die of its own merits rather than kill it with cheap compromise after cheap compromise just for the sake of infill. At least the former gives it a chance to be something special that attracts quality projects in the future, even if it takes waiting a little longer for the right developers to come along that actually believe in the area instead of just wanting to milk the area for a few years then flip for a profit that was generated largely on the savings created by the substandard design quality and materials used to build it.

Take a look around - Bricktown is already becoming irrelevant. Want to kill Bricktown, keep it from changing with the times. It is a pattern recreated across America.

Step 1: Create enterainment district from abandonded warehouses
Step 2: Discourage new development with strict design standards
Step 3: Watch entertainment district die.

Interesting architecture doesn't require a lot of money. A little, but not a lot, and the result is so much better than another cube with cheap windows that looks like a 1,000-unit midrise prison.

Interesting architecture doesn't require a lot of money. A little, but not a lot, and the result is so much better than another cube with cheap windows that looks like a 1,000-unit midrise prison.

To be fair, it's a starting point and the rendering that steve posted with the article doesn't convey the depth of the building nor the fact that it's actually an L shape.

The Hampton Inn started out much the same way, and was tweaked a number of times along the way. There are two great architects on the design committee, the finished product will have to please them for approval.

Kerry, we will have to agree to disagree. There is plenty of room up on Memorial and on NW Expressway to build cookie cutter EIFS chain hmotels. They can be built on Reno on the other side of Lincoln or west of downtown where there aren't any design standards. I don't think the insistence on a significant amount of brick has kept development from occurring. And, to be honest with you, I'd rather have Bricktown stay as it is than settle for a swath of those.

Yeah, I'd hate for you to have to "settle" for some ugly, "generic" midrise (or lowrise).

http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000NWmAgSfh5rk/s/900/900/okc-bricktown0005.jpg

Toby Keith's sure looks great, and that Residence Inn looks very unique! I could never imagine something like that on Memorial.

As you see, OKC has already settled lots of times in the past.

As I said above, this hotel will stand out as the best in Bricktown if what exists in Austin gets built in OKC. Compared to some of the garbage in lower Bricktown, this development is hardly "settling" and should be the least of your worries.

If the design stands of Bricktown proper had been applied to Lower Bricktown it would still be a dirt patch.

Can anyone guess why only two private strucutures have been built in Bricktown and prime lots still sit vacant after almost 20 years?

Mainly because investors buy up those lots with grand plans, and instead decide to hold onto them and turn a profit on them. I don't think it has anything to do with increased requirements and hoops to jump through.

And I think the slowing of development in Bricktown is due to the national recession and not due to the design requirements. Just look at the direction Tuscana has gone up by Quail Springs Mall and other Memorial Road developments that have stalled.

If you take away the design requirements, Bricktown becomes nothing more than a Memorial Road development, and we end up with more surface parking along the canal. I'd rather have that empty grass lot than a surface parking lot fronting the canal.

Design review committees are good for the community. If it weren't for them, we'd have a Walgreens sitting in place of the Gold Dome. We wouldn't have a refurbished Skirvin Hotel. We'd have run down motels lining the canal. The list goes on and on.

Being involved in the construction industry I have received certain lead information regarding these hotels. The first sentence is "As of 1/18/11 a development team is considering this project and determining whether this project is feasible....."

All design constraints that will add cost or delays will be considered in the feasibility of the project. If the costs mount beyond a point where the risk/reward evaluation is positive, I am sure that like good developers they will pass and go to the other better projects they might have. That is not saying we shouldn't have appropriate standards, but understand that the geek with high standards might not have a date to the prom if he insists on only bringing Miss America. And that is our choice.

Compromise can be good for all parties. Quality development will be easier as the demand to be in the area increases and the opportunity for income exceeds the expected rate of return. In the meantime, we have to be smart about our efforts to promote GOOD development and REASONABLE standards.

It seems to me the whole purpose of MAPS, the canal and building up bricktown was to get development into a blighted area and to increase tax revenue from a deteriorating core. It was not the worship of red bricks. There is no set % of bricks on a building that constitutes holiness. If we want a faithful reproduction of 1920s architecture and materials we should hire Disney to come create it. I do work for them all over and they do a great job of that sort of thing. But if we want a vibrant core urban area we need to be smart.

Yeah, I'd hate for you to have to "settle" for some ugly, "generic" midrise (or lowrise).

http://c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000NWmAgSfh5rk/s/900/900/okc-bricktown0005.jpg

Toby Keith's sure looks great, and that Residence Inn looks very unique! I could never imagine something like that on Memorial.

As you see, OKC has already settled lots of times in the past.

As I said above, this hotel will stand out as the best in Bricktown if what exists in Austin gets built in OKC. Compared to some of the garbage in lower Bricktown, this development is hardly "settling" and should be the least of your worries.

And just beyond that Toby Keith's is a sea of surface parking along the canal.

Anything south of Reno is not in the Bricktown core and falls outside of the design review. The Residence was not approved by the design committee.

I know, but the committee is there to try and prevent more of it from being built in the area under its jurisdiction.


If the design stands of Bricktown proper had been applied to Lower Bricktown it would still be a dirt patch.

And with more potential than it has now. Maybe that is part of why it is dying, as you say. The new development brought nothing new to the city and people are quickly losing interest. That and many owners have decided to keep their property for spec rather than develop it.

If you like cookie cutter mediocrity, why are you interested in bricktown at all? The city already has an abundance of it on memorial and I-240 that was all built with little to no community involvement. You should be more than satisfied. In the end, if bricktown wasn't brick, which set it apart from the typical development of the last 30 years, then it would all still be "dilapidated" buildings. It was its character that saved it in the first place and inspired a whole movement downtown. We could piss that away, but that would be stupid, especially when there is still SOOOOO much space in the city left for plenty more compromised developments. There is no long term downside to at least trying to create and preserve just a little bit of character in Oklahoma City, if for nothing else, so that we can actually sell it to visitors and potential residents.

Trust me, if bricktown never allows another building with anything other then brick on it, there will still be SEVERAL new hotels and developments like the ones you want built in the next ten years. Most of Oklahoma City is pretty much under the guidelines of "do whatever you want as long as there is enough parking". Trying to create and preserve the character of a 100 year old 9 block area in a city of 600 square miles just doesn't seem that misguided. There is so much more upside to doing that, than to trying and pattern it after everything else you already have.

In fact, why don't they just build it in lower bricktown? It already is what it is and it has no character to save or preserve. This project would actually be a huge improvement on that area as it is right now....

The reality is that if bricktown is suffering it probably has more to do with the mediocrity of the new development in the area than with the unique character of the district defined by its brick structures.

If the design stands of Bricktown proper had been applied to Lower Bricktown it would still be a dirt patch.

Maybe, maybe not. If it was still a dirt patch, it would be due to politics more than anything.

And the surface parking along the canal beyond Toby Keith's is less than appealing. And there's still a dirt patch west of Toby Keith's, and Urban Renewal has done nothing to enforce Randy Hogan to keep his promises in constructing a building there.

It is amazing to me, that in the land of brick, we see so much EIFS. If you combined some metal and glass with brick, you could get a nice modern look that would blend in quite well in bricktown.

http://www.catfishbilly.com/images/brick-glass-metal.jpg

It is amazing to me, that in the land of brick, we see so much EIFS. If you combined some metal and glass with brick, you could get a nice modern look that would blend in quite well in bricktown.

I made the same point earlier in the thread. I'm sure the reason for EIFS is cost.

Personally, I'd like to see more developments with red brick and more modern touches as opposed to trying to make something new look old. You simply can't replicate those old details without tremendous expense and not have it end up looking exactly like what it is: a cheap imitation.


As a side note, I'd like to see this project done as the Hampton Inn has clearly been good for everyone involved. But Bricktown isn't going to die without it and if the economics of doing it right don't make sense at this point, then everyone should wait until they do. We are still in a very rough economy, after all. In a few years -- if not sooner -- there are likely to be many more projects come forth.

That would look great, preferably with a darker brick though.

Negotiations always fail when one side or the other overestimates their leverage. Private investors and developers are non-plussed by the ideals. They will capitulate when the perceived financial opportunity is great enough to accept the other party's demands. To date, OKC and Bricktown clearly has not provided proof enough of financial opportunity to overcome. Maybe it will, in time. This developer will understand more than any what the opportunity is because of their success with the Hampton. But they will have a level they will go to. If we push past that level, they will pick up their ball and go home. What we can force them to do will be relative to cost and perceived opportunity...pure and simple. A developer in Wisconsin is not going to be overly altruistic.

If we are to hold to our highest ideals, then the city needs to develop the properties precisely to its wishes and to try to recover its investment on behalf of the citizens. However, this suggestion meets great opposition on here when suggested. If the city will not or cannot do that, then it MUST negotiate with private enterprise and get as close to its ideals as possible. And that will depend on each developer and each specific opportunity, as well as the state of the economy, etc.

To date, OKC and Bricktown clearly has not provided proof enough of financial opportunity to overcome.

As much as we all love to criticize what hasn't been done or lament the projects that never got off the drawing board, there have been dozens and dozens of projects completed in and around Bricktown and by any measure it's a wildly successful and thriving district. Even in this horrible economy several developments are now just getting underway or expanding.

Some projects are just ill-conceived or badly timed. Making excessive concessions and abandoning agreed-upon standards might allow one or two projects to get done in the near term but the longer-term is the issue here.


I'm sure Pitman's group and the design committee can come to some compromise. But if they can't, I'm not convinced that's a bad thing.

Maybe, maybe not. If it was still a dirt patch, it would be due to politics more than anything.

And the surface parking along the canal beyond Toby Keith's is less than appealing. And there's still a dirt patch west of Toby Keith's, and Urban Renewal has done nothing to enforce Randy Hogan to keep his promises in constructing a building there.

I think we may have found the perfect site for a convention center.

Take a look around - Bricktown is already becoming irrelevant. Want to kill Bricktown, keep it from changing with the times. It is a pattern recreated across America.

Step 1: Create enterainment district from abandonded warehouses
Step 2: Discourage new development with strict design standards
Step 3: Watch entertainment district die.

Kerry, I've been covering design review for 15 years. I've yet to see an example in Bricktown where design standards killed a project (I have, however, seen it happen in MidTown and NW 23). I have seen design review prevent the following in Bricktown:
- A franchise style McDonalds
- A truckstop
- A Hampton Inn with more EIFS than brick (as I recall)

Kerry, how often do you get to visit Bricktown? I'm the first to write about the area's problems, etc., but where is the evidence that it's dying or in danger of dying?
As for the question of whether urban design guidelines were responsible for the scrapping of the Holiday Inn and Candlewood Inn projects, no, not really. The Candlewood involved a broker who didn't adequately foresee challenges posed by the existence of a billboard and cell phone tower on the site. The Holiday Inn is a tougher case study - it did go through a delay of a few months to totally redo the design. But the original design was widely criticized both by Bricktown, the design committee, and people on this site. And would that few months have allowed the developer to obtain financing before the crash? I don't know...

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/bricktowncanal.jpg

IMHO the biggest issue around the future of Oklahoma City is raising the quality of planning and development.

I love OKC more than anyone but if you spend much time elsewhere, you quickly realize the quality of projects (design, materials used, etc.) is well below not only a lot of cities, I'd even say the large majority of them. I hate to be negative but there are still big chunks of town built up in the last 20-30 years that are downright embarrassing.

Fortunately, most the development / re-development in and around the downtown area has been pretty darn good. It's the one place where more is demanded and expected.

Frankly, I'd much, much rather err on the side of demanding more from developers -- at least in the central core. And I'm grateful the city leadership has established these review committees to provide what I hope will be -- within a reasonable measure -- a higher standard.

Kerry's argument is a red herring. Bricktown proper is comparably urban and has few open lots. The lots that have not had something built have not been in the right hands when the economy supported construction. Projects have been proposed and died NOT BECAUSE OF DESIGN STANDARDS, but because they COULD NOT SECURE FUNDING. This is an important distinction. And there have been a large amount of remodels in Bricktown because buildings are existing.

IMHO the biggest issue around the future of Oklahoma City is raising the quality of planning and development.

I love OKC more than anyone but if you spend much time elsewhere, you quickly realize the quality of projects (design, materials used, etc.) is well below not only a lot of cities, I'd even say the large majority of them. I hate to be negative but there are still big chunks of areas built up in the last 20-30 that are downright embarrassing.

Fortunately, most the development / re-development in and around the downtown area has been pretty darn good. It's the one area where more is demanded and expected.

Frankly, I'd much, much rather err on the side of demanding more from developers -- at least in the central core. And I'm grateful the city leadership has established these review committees to provide what I hope will be -- within a reasonable measure -- a higher standard.

I have absolutely no problem with the strict design standards, but it is a balancing act.

The real roadblock in the development of Bricktown is all the surface parking. Many of the surface lots are also owned by a hand full of property owners. Why develop an old building or a surface lot when you make a killing on parking?

Here's something people don't like to talk about: did you know a property owner faces a smaller assessment to pay into the Business Improvement District for a surface parking lot than for a building on that same lot?

I'll agree with Steve, I don't understand the assertion that Bricktown is somehow dying?!?!? From my perspective, Bricktown is doing the best it has ever done. As others have mentioned, the reason for less development can be attributed to the economy, the value of surface parking lots, and the availability of numerous buildings (thus negating the need for building tons of new ones). I'm just glad Kerry isn't on the review committee.

Here are the three one-story buildings that would be demolished:

310 E. Sheridan built in 1950

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020028275001sA.jpg

312 E. Sheridan built in 1963

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020028250001sA.jpg

314 E. Sheridan built in 1950

http://www.oklahomacounty.org/assessor/Searches/sketches/picfile/2735/R020028225001tA.jpg

I don't see how anyone who takes a glance at Bricktown right now can say it's dying. The ACM is thriving and growing, providing a good stable base of young creative types to fill the streets throughout the week. We've seen good additions like the Bricktown Candy Co., Peachwave Yogurt, Michael Murphy's Dueling Pianos and the Bricktown Marketplace enjoy relatively successful openings the past couple of years. Lower Bricktown remains 100 percent leased after a couple of turn-overs. And now we're talking about more than 200 new hotel rooms coming into the district. Kerry, help me understand how Bricktown is "dying"?
Have there been some moves made by Bricktown property owners in the past that led to places like West End facing? Yes. But they've also learned a bit as well....

In 20 years what are the three new private sector buildings in Bricktown?

1. The Power Alley parking garage
2. Hampton Inn
3. McDonalds

Imagine yourself in 1993 about to vote on MAPS and the 'big sell' from the pro-MAPS crowd is that it will lure a parking garage, Hampton Inn, and McDonalds to the area over the next 20 years. Would you vote for it?

Of course the canal led to the renovation of old buildings along the canal but I think we have reached the end of that. In addition to changing the color of the brick on the new hotel, they also have to prove the existing one story buildings are not historic. I am not even sure how you do that. If the convention center is placed on the Lumberyard site some have proposed building the convention hotel north of Reno. Do you think building a 500 to 750 room convention hotel out of brick is even feasible? No way.

Pretty soon multiple areas around downtown are going to become competitors to Bricktown. We are already seeing this in Deep Deuce which has had more construction in the last 5 years than Bricktown has seen is 20 years, with nary a dime of direct MAPS involvement. Bricktown is helping every part of downtown grow except for Bricktown and pretty soon it will be replaced as the driving influence by a streetcar (which might not even go to Bricktown). When that happens, Bricktown will die.

Over the next few years the park area is going to become the focus and if Fred Hall succeeds in creating a retail development on the Ford site and Preftakes does something with his Devon adjacent property, it won't take long until Bricktown is an after-though and irrelevant.

Many people die of cancer who just 6 months earlier thought they were as healthy as they ever have been.

Shouldn't the committee be more concernerd about the pop up tent tied down to a street sign on Mickey Mantle than a major hotel investment in a entertainment district.
In the beginning it was never intended to be a HP district.

Kerry...I disagree, Bricktown is more vibrant then ever, when was the last time you were actually in Bricktown? Me and my family go at least once a month, and every time we go it's great, concerts and Thunder games held at the Oklahoma City Arena bring constant traffic to Btown, moreover, at least half of the people who visit Btown aren't even from Oklahoma City, they are from rural areas throughout the state visiting. Btown is thriving, I don't see it dying anytime soon...

Kerry, when did you start spewing strange rhetoric in every single thread? Also, your argument about "three new structures in 20 years" is seriously flawed. You're forgetting MAJOR additions to JDM Place and the building that houses Nonna's, both done with really high design quality. You're neglecting to give due importance to thousands of square feet of activity that has occurred (and is still occurring) inside buildings, as well as major exterior renovations (Candy Factory for example). These total renovations are basically equivalent to new construction within the shells of old buildings. Now that the majority of these buildings are fixed up, it is far more likely that we'll start seeing more new construction in Bricktown.

Like Steve said, I can't think of a single instance of the design review stopping a project. Even in the case where the developers threatened to pull the project because of design standards (McDonalds), in the end the developers caved and made improvements to the design. Instead, design review has repeatedly made concessions (usually on height restriction) for projects that collapse on the developers' end. We are not the same city we were 20 years ago. We do not have to compromise on quality anymore.

Kerry, new development (i.e. new construction) to Bricktown isn't/wasn't the purpose. The purpose was to create a self-sustaining district that OKC could be proud of, which led the way to getting to where we are now. Bricktown was a conduit to downtown pride and it has served it's purpose, and is continuing to serve it's purpose. Bricktown has led the way in that regard. It has also led the way for development of Lower Bricktown, which is also criticized, which is understandable. Bricktown may not remain as a local-heavy place, as the newness wears off and/or other entertainment options become available. But it is still very much so a heavy tourist attraction, and will complement downtown, instead of being the main player. Anyone coming from out-of-town and is staying here, will visit Bricktown at least once during their stay, if they are not already staying down there in a hotel. Down the road, it might be something like this from a tourist perspective: Let's go to Bricktown today, and this evening maybe we can go to the park. Tomorrow let's go to a Thunder game, and go eat at the restaurant in Deep Deuce. Thursday maybe we can go see the Memorial and then do some shopping in Auto-alley. And maybe that night we can leave the kids at the hotel and we can go to a bar or a club in Bricktown.

Instead of "today, let's go to the Memorial and a Thunder game, and then tomorrow we can hang around Bricktown and maybe drive up to N.W. Expressway or Memorial Road." As the other districts grow and become established, Bricktown won't be the main star of the show, and that's fine, it will become a complement to the other districts and allow a person to stay "downtown" and have fun in all of the districts during their stay, instead of one district.

Okay - you guys convinced me. Just don't be shocked if in 10 more years we are sitting on West End or Old Sacramento style decline.

Kerry, do you even remember what Bricktown was like 20 years ago? A ghost town!

First off, you have to include Lower Bricktown in your assessment, because it's connected directly with Bricktown. There, we've taken a whole piece of major property that was essentially a dirt pile, and developed it into its own entertainment district.

Second, you have to realize that much of the development has been refurbishing many of the old warehouse buildings and retrofitting them to house restaurants. Look at all of the projects we've had there. Now you have restaurants like Zios, Spaghetti Warehouse, Bricktown Brewery, Chelinos, Biting Sow, Crabtown, Bourbon Street Cafe, nonna's, etc. etc. And you have the Oklahoma Banjo Museum and Citywalk, and the JDM Building along the canal, the Oklahoma Hardware Building, The Kingman Building, the Miller Jackson Building.

How can you say Bricktown is the same today as it was 20 years ago?

And comparing Bricktown to Deep Deuce? You really can't compare. There weren't a lot of buildings remaining in Deep Deuce, so a lot of new construction had to take place. In Bricktown, the buildings were already there....they just had to be refurbished.

And those 3 buildings that Pete posted pictures of......what historical value are they? Well, look at them. You can't really compare those buildings to the Oklahoma Hardware Building, the Kingman Building, or the Miller Jackson Building. No comparison.

In 20 years what are the three new private sector buildings in Bricktown?

1. The Power Alley parking garage
2. Hampton Inn
3. McDonalds

Imagine yourself in 1993 about to vote on MAPS and the 'big sell' from the pro-MAPS crowd is that it will lure a parking garage, Hampton Inn, and McDonalds to the area over the next 20 years. Would you vote for it?

Kerry, this is like saying only one building has been built in downtown Dallas the past decade. Do you visit Bricktown much?
Power Alley Parking Garage, partnership led by Marsh Pitman - $5.3 million. The 553-space, eight-story parking garage opened in April.
Improvements since MAPS passed:
JDM Building, $5 million.
Oklahoma Hardware Building $2 million.
Miller-Jackson building converted from warehouse to mix of retail, restaurants and offices
All of Lower Bricktown
Banjo Museum
Candy Factory Building
Melting Pot Building
Zio's stretch along the canal (further renovation of adjoining buildings underway now)
Architectural, web development and law offices across from Bricktown station on Main Street
Ihop/offices building east of ballpark
Coca-Cola Event Center
gas station and convenience store (yes, such things are needed in a major tourist destination)
I could go on and on....
Kerry, when was the last time you visited Bricktown?

Here was Bricktown 10 years ago. No comparison. Look at all of the surface lots.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral2/files/2009/09/aerialbrick1998.jpg

I don't see how anyone who takes a glance at Bricktown right now can say it's dying. The ACM is thriving and growing, providing a good stable base of young creative types to fill the streets throughout the week. We've seen good additions like the Bricktown Candy Co., Peachwave Yogurt, Michael Murphy's Dueling Pianos and the Bricktown Marketplace enjoy relatively successful openings the past couple of years. Lower Bricktown remains 100 percent leased after a couple of turn-overs. And now we're talking about more than 200 new hotel rooms coming into the district. Kerry, help me understand how Bricktown is "dying"?
Have there been some moves made by Bricktown property owners in the past that led to places like West End facing? Yes. But they've also learned a bit as well....

lower bricktown is not 100% leased there is a spot in the centenial building empty

Here are some examples of what Kerry would like to see built in Bricktown. Better than an empty pile of dirt, right?

http://www.newportmotelnh.com/Images/motel-front.gif

http://www.parkebridgemotel.com/Motel_Itself_op_800x533.jpg

http://cockroachpeople.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/motel.jpg

http://www.fairwindsmotelarcata.com/MotelBig.JPG

Here was Bricktown 10 years ago. No comparison. Look at all of the surface lots.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral2/files/2009/09/aerialbrick1998.jpg

Pic is not showing up for me.

For those that want affordable downtown living, might as well put one of these in as well. How about on the steelyard site?

http://www.walkinginla.com/2005/Apr24/42442.jpg

http://mhpreview.com/images/800px-Trailerpark.jpg

Wow... I remember Patrick and Kerry from the old okc.gov chat site days... very different back then. Guys, you were once unified downtown enthusiasts....

Pic is not showing up for me.

Here's the link from Steve's site. Was before Lower Bricktown.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral2/files/2009/09/aerialbrick1998.jpg

You guys convinced me.

BTW - it has been a little over a year since I was last in Bricktown.

Patrick - your pics do not represent my view of urban development.

Wow... I remember Patrick and Kerry from the old okc.gov chat site days... very different back then. Guys, you were once unified downtown enthusiasts....

He's coming around! lol! :) I think we all get frustrated with the slow process of Bricktown development sometimes, myself included.

Wow... I remember Patrick and Kerry from the old okc.gov chat site days... very different back then. Guys, you were once unified downtown enthusiasts....

That was a long time ago huh.

Patrick - your pics do not represent my view of urban development.

A little humor please!

That was a long time ago huh.

That was a long time ago. Late 1990's when we were on Talkback on the old cityhall website, and then later the MAPS forum on the OPUBCO site.

Here's the link from Steve's site. Was before Lower Bricktown.

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral2/files/2009/09/aerialbrick1998.jpg

Forbidden

Well, after all the bickering, I really hope this project comes together. Bricktown could use some hotels and that is a good location for them. I really hope the necessary improvements are made to make the hotel fit well with the area and look good for the long haul and that it is very successful. I really think the whole area (e.g. Bricktown, Deep Deuce...) will continue to be more successful in the future...

Here's California Avenue before the canal. You can see the Bricktown Ballpark going up in the background. Notice all of the boarded up buildings...the Kingman Building on the right.

http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/7690410_BG1.jpg

Agree with Kilgore. I hope this hotel will be successful. It might also lead to some development in the parking lot that the Redhawks use.

This is really a good discussion because it demonstrates how many people care about OKC. That's a good thing!

I think we are all pretty much saying the same thing just in slightly different ways.


I'm confident Pitman's group and the design committee will reach a good compromise, just as they did on the Hampton Inn.

Credit to the committee for looking out for what they think is best for Bricktown and credit to Pitman for his efforts and dollars. OKC needs more developers like him and his partners.

Quick Question, is the Hampton Inn 9 stories? This one being proposed is 11 stories, right?

Quick Question, is the Hampton Inn 9 stories? This one being proposed is 11 stories, right?

That is what has been proposed.

Forbidden

Weird... not sure why that happened. I'll look at it.

Okay - you guys convinced me. Just don't be shocked if in 10 more years we are sitting on West End or Old Sacramento style decline.

That will only happen if design standards are lowered. Who wants to go spend a night out on the town...on Meridan Avenue? Your argument that looser design standards would make Bricktown more vibrant is crazy, Kerry.

You were on a roll until lately, it seemed like we were going through a phase where I agreed with you 100% on non political stuff, but in this last week you have been saying a lot of crazy things. Is everything alright in your life, Kerry?

I think for what it's worth, the Bricktown urban design committee have really done a good job standing by the high standard, and Pitman has done an awesome job by trying to seek community input BEFORE the project's heavy planning and attempting to avert a SandRidge-style showdown of a developer spending big bucks on design and having to push the already-finalized project through a sea of public opposition. Pitman is wanting to do something big and that's admirable, and especially if changes are made that reflect the input given in the last 48 hours, this is a BIG step for the development process.

We need more of this cooperation. I hope Pitman's project is wildly successful so that it reaffirms that working WITH design critics and the community will only strengthen your project.

I'm just hoping the new hotel will bring new development/renovations across the street. That part of the Bricktown can really use some improvement. Just eliminating those three buildings and replacing it will be a major improvement.

Forbidden

Must I do everything? *grin*

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/files/2009/09/aerialbrick1998.jpg

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2009/09/15/downtown-okc-2020-blair-humphreys/aerialbrick1998/