Let me know if I've missed another thread with this topic but why do we have to pay for the Sunday TV Guide now? Anyone have the scoop on this?

I have subscribed to the paper for nearly 50 years and my annual payment is due. When I called them about the TV schedule issue I was told a bunch of hogwash and when I told them that I thought I would just not reup after all these years if that was the way it was. It didn't seem to bother them one iota. I will just use http://www.tvguide.com/listings/ instead. I will miss my Sunday morning ritual but I hated the way they are bullying us into paying extra for a friggin' TV schedule. Sorry, Steve, I will miss you, so I am especially glad you are here.

I have subscribed to the paper for nearly 50 years and my annual payment is due. When I called them about the TV schedule issue I was told a bunch of hogwash and when I told them that I thought I would just not reup after all these years if that was the way it was. It didn't seem to bother them one iota. I will just use http://www.tvguide.com/listings/ instead. I will miss my Sunday morning ritual but I hated the way they are bullying us into paying extra for a friggin' TV schedule. Sorry, Steve, I will miss you, so I am especially glad you are here.

The Sunday Dallas Morning News did this about a month ago. $.75 a week for the friggin' TV guide? I think not.

The Sunday Dallas Morning News did this about a month ago. $.75 a week for the friggin' TV guide? I think not.

Especially silly since you can get the "real" TV Guide magazine for way cheaper than that - they're currently advertising $0.29/issue if you sub for 56 issues (some issues are for 2 weeks, so it's not for 56 weeks) for $16.50 and there's so much more in it than in the Sunday paper TV guides. No, not affiliated w/TV Guide mag at all, just a satisfied subscriber.

My reply would be "you know there's an app for that!"

Newspapers are as dead as doornails...now the vultures are circling in a desperate attempt to get that last bite...

Newspapers are as dead as doornails...now the vultures are circling in a desperate attempt to get that last bite...

I'll subscribe to home delivered, hard copy news as long as it's offered.

I'll subscribe to home delivered, hard copy news as long as it's offered.

I believe in supporting the industry locally...I worked in it for a number of years...but--it is--in fact--dead as a doornail.

I won't pay for the newspaper, and haven't for well over a year. Do they think I'm actually going to pay for a tv guide??

Just one more nail in their coffin....

I believe in supporting the industry locally...I worked in it for a number of years...but--it is--in fact--dead as a doornail.

I think you and I have had this same discussion several times, jmark. I don't believe I need to tell you again how I feel. LOL

I think you and I have had this same discussion several times, jmark. I don't believe I need to tell you again how I feel. LOL

Somehow--I missed how this post by me was aimed at you?....LOL

Somehow--I missed how this post by me was aimed at you?....LOL

You should know how I love my paper. I always take it personal. LOL

You should know how I love my paper. I always take it personal. LOL

I love newspapers as well...they are a part of history...I admired Benjamin Franklin all my life...but--times change. I have been involved with the print media all my life...think I like to see it go? Typography is one of my greatest skills...know it like the back of my hand. BUT--it is no great thing to watch people be doltish and bury their head in the sand. You HAVE to morph...and holding a snippy stupid thing like a webcam on a building being built as your "sales tool" for subscriptions is the picture of incompetence--to a degree that is literally breath-taking. If they happen to fail--it will be of their own doing. Rest assured someone with better ideas and more business savvy will fill in the void--however configured...

Today's Internet culture is free - free - free. Today's newspapers are facing an unprecedented financial crunch. Charging for the TV guide is seen as another source of revenue in an industry under siege. I can't fathom that guide not being worth .75 a week. I know this puts me in an obvious minority here - but so be it. There are many things we have to pay for that used to be free. Air, anyone? The list is long. To pay .75 a week for a quick paper TV guide reference is worth it to me, but I'm old school. I fail to understand how people think we can sustain a culture of everyone expecting the same services without cost increases and comparing the printed TV guide to free Internet-based services. Something for nothing can be addictive but it doesn't mean we should expect it for everything. Something has to give somewhere.

Today's Internet culture is free - free - free. Today's newspapers are facing an unprecedented financial crunch. Charging for the TV guide is seen as another source of revenue in an industry under siege. I can't fathom that guide not being worth .75 a week. I know this puts me in an obvious minority here - but so be it. There are many things we have to pay for that used to be free. Air, anyone? The list is long. To pay .75 a week for a quick paper TV guide reference is worth it to me, but I'm old school. I fail to understand how people think we can sustain a culture of everyone expecting the same services without cost increases and comparing the printed TV guide to free Internet-based services. Something for nothing can be addictive but it doesn't mean we should expect it for everything. Something has to give somewhere.

I semi-agree, but I wonder how $0.75/issue is justified when you can get a full-color TV Guide magazine with *way* more content for just a little over a third of that price.

I semi-agree, but I wonder how $0.75/issue is justified when you can get a full-color TV Guide magazine with *way* more content for just a little over a third of that price.

Of course...TV Guide, the magazine, does not have local listings. Thanks a lot!

I love newspapers as well...they are a part of history...I admired Benjamin Franklin all my life...but--times change. I have been involved with the print media all my life...think I like to see it go? Typography is one of my greatest skills...know it like the back of my hand. BUT--it is no great thing to watch people be doltish and bury their head in the sand. You HAVE to morph...and holding a snippy stupid thing like a webcam on a building being built as your "sales tool" for subscriptions is the picture of incompetence--to a degree that is literally breath-taking. If they happen to fail--it will be of their own doing. Rest assured someone with better ideas and more business savvy will fill in the void--however configured...

It's not a sales-tool for subscriptions at all, but clearly you don't care what I've got to say on this.
I was involved in setting up the webcam. There were agreements that had to take place to make it happen. It's restriction to subscribers had nothing to do with circulation, etc. Now you can go back and declare my job doomed, etc.

It's not a sales-tool for subscriptions at all, but clearly you don't care what I've got to say on this.
I was involved in setting up the webcam. There were agreements that had to take place to make it happen. It's restriction to subscribers had nothing to do with circulation, etc. Now you can go back and declare my job doomed, etc.

Steve--you are a very nice guy--and you an extremely good journalist in my opinion. But--the CIA big-secret crap about the webcam is just mindless. If there are $700 million dollar SAG/AFTRA commitments with MGM and Universal...well...

Your job is not doomed. Hell...everyone in every kind of business has been thrown down the stairs and had to find another angle to their profession. I had to many times...but--I can tell you this. Every single time I came out better and progressed in my field and made more money. It is the bumps that push you to the top--not the longevity in one office. Trust me on this.

You have your time and skills to sell to the world...if the Oklahoman is not able to use them properly--someone else will.

I use this as my solution:

http://tv.yahoo.com/listings

Once you set it up with your location, it takes pretty good care of you.

Of course...TV Guide, the magazine, does not have local listings. Thanks a lot!

True, but with a computer, you've got them. If you don't have a computer or an on-screen guide, then you'll just have to be perpetually in the dark about what's on the local channels (but not really, since they do carry the listings of the national networks of the local affiliates, just not the local shows) unless you subscribe to the way-overpriced newspaper guide.

Steve--you are a very nice guy--and you an extremely good journalist in my opinion. But--the CIA big-secret crap about the webcam is just mindless. If there are $700 million dollar SAG/AFTRA commitments with MGM and Universal...well...[/I][/B]

Jmark, either you think I'm a liar or you don't. I really wish I could explain all the challenges that were involved in setting that webcam up. But I KNOW it wasn't related to sales or circulation. It was not an Oklahoman business decision. If you still think I'm lying, so be it. I do not lie. And I stand behind what I say, my name out there for all to see.

Jmark, either you think I'm a liar or you don't. I really wish I could explain all the challenges that were involved in setting that webcam up. But I KNOW it wasn't related to sales or circulation. It was not an Oklahoman business decision. If you still think I'm lying, so be it. I do not lie. And I stand behind what I say, my name out there for all to see.

Steve, It's probably been a long week, but focus on the positives from his post. He said some mighty nice things!

Yeah, I know. You're right Mike. And I will readily admit, I'm a bit raw this week. Please realize, I worked very hard on the webcam, the subscriber wall was not my idea, but rather was the only way to make it happen and not lose months of work on the project. So the commentary on it hits me directly. I have a great appreciation for Jmark's knowledge of our history, what he's seen, what he can teach us. Not sure I appreciate the gloom and doom predictions. I wish all of you realized that these cuts aren't limited to the newspaper; it's been happening with television news as well (radio news, meanwhile, is a walking zombie).
Jmark, please accept my apology.

True, but with a computer, you've got them. If you don't have a computer or an on-screen guide, then you'll just have to be perpetually in the dark about what's on the local channels (but not really, since they do carry the listings of the national networks of the local affiliates, just not the local shows) unless you subscribe to the way-overpriced newspaper guide.

I use the AOL listings--gotten by provider and zip code--free. It works wonderfully...and is always as handy as your computer happens to be to you.

http://tvlistings.aol.com/listings/ok/

Jmark, either you think I'm a liar or you don't. I really wish I could explain all the challenges that were involved in setting that webcam up. But I KNOW it wasn't related to sales or circulation. It was not an Oklahoman business decision. If you still think I'm lying, so be it. I do not lie. And I stand behind what I say, my name out there for all to see.

Never would think of you as lying Steve. Just think someone should know who the miscreant is who thinks they can hold civic developments hostage. I suspect the location is controlled by some nefarious source--and I find that un-civic-minded and onerous. It's not like it's the most difficult thing in the world to accomplish--someone is working on using the Chase Tower somehow--the best, by far, choice--and it will happen. My only complaint with any of all of this is--it's a tiny project--a small damn webcam for God's sake...becomes so delicate. Big cities just should never be involved in such petty gambits.

Yeah, I know. You're right Mike. And I will readily admit, I'm a bit raw this week. Please realize, I worked very hard on the webcam, the subscriber wall was not my idea, but rather was the only way to make it happen and not lose months of work on the project. So the commentary on it hits me directly. I have a great appreciation for Jmark's knowledge of our history, what he's seen, what he can teach us. Not sure I appreciate the gloom and doom predictions. I wish all of you realized that these cuts aren't limited to the newspaper; it's been happening with television news as well (radio news, meanwhile, is a walking zombie).
Jmark, please accept my apology.

No apologies needed on this forum! Just opinions and none of us should take offense at differences of opinion. I know you are one of the city fathers--in my opinion--you have spent more time dedicated to promoting this city than just about anyone I know of. And, I am sure you are dealing with a lot with the Oklahoman. But, the better the job you have the thicker the politics. I have been tossed off the balcony of some of the best ad agencies in the USA--but--the next day I was working at a better one...even had one toss me out--then send me a restraining order saying I could not use my knowledge of clients for ten years! Ha! They never checked to see if I ever signed their stupid contract. The upshot is--you could go anywhere in this country with your resume. But--the Oklahoman needs you quite a lot...and try to think of the newspaper at being a great opportunity to morph now into something new and viable--and perhaps--ground-breaking.

E.K. Gaylord would stand with you on this one...to be sure.

I understand the frustration. I promise you there is no nefarious source, no one putting words in my mouth. You have my word on the following: the subscriber wall is not tied to circulation, advertising or revenue for The Oklahoman. I truly wanted to create a cool viewer for visitors with the only selfish motive being, gasp, to draw people to NewsOK. Things got complicated, and I worked out the best arrangement I could.
And that's pretty much all I've got to say.

I understand the frustration. I promise you there is no nefarious source, no one putting words in my mouth. You have my word on the following: the subscriber wall is not tied to circulation, advertising or revenue for The Oklahoman. I truly wanted to create a cool viewer for visitors with the only selfish motive being, gasp, to draw people to NewsOK. Things got complicated, and I worked out the best arrangement I could.
And that's pretty much all I've got to say.

Good response. I understand your dilemma better. Sometime--let us know an e-mail addy where we can voice our complaints and suggest why a change in control might be beneficial to them--and NO ONE turns that down.

I understand the frustration. I promise you there is no nefarious source, no one putting words in my mouth. You have my word on the following: the subscriber wall is not tied to circulation, advertising or revenue for The Oklahoman. I truly wanted to create a cool viewer for visitors with the only selfish motive being, gasp, to draw people to NewsOK. Things got complicated, and I worked out the best arrangement I could.
And that's pretty much all I've got to say.

BTW--if NewsOK is run by you--I for one would be a charter subscriber online--especially if charter subscribers got an eternal rate freeze at the introductory price!

Well, thank you sir. I suspect, however, that would be akin to letting the inmates take over the prison, the crazies take over the asylum, the monkeys take over the zoo, the toddlers take over the daycare, etc. You get my drift. It would be chaotic, messy, a bit scary for all involved.
;)

Well, thank you sir. I suspect, however, that would be akin to letting the inmates take over the prison, the crazies take over the asylum, the monkeys take over the zoo, the toddlers take over the daycare, etc. You get my drift. It would be chaotic, messy, a bit scary for all involved.
;)

Not at all, Steve...you are computer/internet savvy, an accomplished journalist, and young enough to have vision and dedication to make it happen. And--you are dedicated to the great legacy of the Oklahoman--which holds a place in my heart as well. It IS the future. Carpe Diem, my friend.

Make online Oklahoman offering at a low price to start...with the codicil of lifetime rate for charter members. That will get it off the ground and give some leeway to explore...and don't forget it will always be scary to go into future technology...and never forget about online offerings--cheaper rates for some over time has a **zero** actual cost online--a true selling point...

BTW--these were tha same things they said about Steve Jobs long ago...

I'll subscribe to home delivered, hard copy news as long as it's offered.

I would to, if they still offered it. However after more than 50 years as a subscriber (and four of those were as a staff member) I've cancelled!