Oh come on. It's not realistic to completely live without a car here in Oklahoma City no matter what. We have nowhere near the urban amenities that could support a car-less lifestyle. That's just an unrealistic argument to be truthful. We aren't NYC or Chicago so the personal vehicle is going to be in the situation regardless.

But that is the argument I have heard used.

And Spartan is correct, you may still have to have a car to make the weekly trip to the grocery store, but may be able to save a lot on gas etc for other things that are within walking distance. But when it comes to most any kind of shopping, your options are limited downtown.

I don't think anyone is actually implying, "Move downtown! Live car-free!" just yet. Or at least I hope not. But hey, there are people all over OKC that live car-free, and their life is kind of inconvenient, but if you did have to live that way, downtown would definitely be the best place to attempt it. The irony is that obviously most of those people don't have the luxury of a downtown loft or condo..

But isn't one of the arguments for downtown living is that you don't need to have a car? That everything is within walking distance? If you still have to have a car to get several miles to a grocery store (as you might in other areas of the city too), why live downtown?

Realistically, though, it's very difficult to do anything more than pick up a few items to cook dinner if you're carless. Having lived without a car when I was a college student in Denver, I would bike or take a bus to the supermarket, fill up a backpack with food and go home. It's hard to buy staples for a family of two in a backpack or a pullable grocery cart. Even if you live downtown, you're going to have to use a car to do a regular shop.

My nephew lives in Manhattan, is carless, and one of his biggest challenges is grocery shopping. There are stores that deliver, but that adds considerably to the price of already pricey groceries, according to him. Actually, 7 of my nieces and nephews live in Manhattan, but the rest have parents who drive in to visit and take them shopping or bring them groceries. My daughters drive about once a week in Chicago, and that's to go to the grocery store.

So, again, even in bigger cities going completely carless offers challenges.

Realistically, though, it's very difficult to do anything more than pick up a few items to cook dinner if you're carless. Having lived without a car when I was a college student in Denver, I would bike or take a bus to the supermarket, fill up a backpack with food and go home. It's hard to buy staples for a family of two in a backpack or a pullable grocery cart. Even if you live downtown, you're going to have to use a car to do a regular shop.

My nephew lives in Manhattan, is carless, and one of his biggest challenges is grocery shopping. There are stores that deliver, but that adds considerably to the price of already pricey groceries, according to him. Actually, 7 of my nieces and nephews live in Manhattan, but the rest have parents who drive in to visit and take them shopping or bring them groceries. My daughters drive about once a week in Chicago, and that's to go to the grocery store.

So, again, even in bigger cities going completely carless offers challenges.

My brother, who lives in the Hollywood area in LA, decided to sell his car a few years ago and has been carless since then in a city where the car is king. He lives within walking distance of several grocery stores and if he needs a large bill he can order groceries on the internet and have them delivered. He is also lucky to live only about 5 blocks from his job so he walks to work every day.

Back to the original question, when is this starting? I could have sworn early 2011 was mentioned, but things can change...

January I believe.

It has a name, so thought I'd start a new thread.


$24 million apartment complex planned in Deep Deuce

Sitting at the Deep Deuce Grill, a chance encounter with nearby resident Brent Bebee illustrates why Richard McKown went through the extra hurdles required to add a $24 million, 228-unit apartment complex to the growing downtown neighborhood. The 228-unit Level Urban Apartments were designed by Wade Scaramucci, an architect with London-based Allford Hall Monaghan Morris, and Oklahoma City-based Architectural Design Group. Construction is set to start this month with an opening by mid-2012. Each apartment unit will feature an open-plan living area, oversized windows and gourmet kitchens. Each unit's interior living space is extended to its own private balcony or terrace with either a view of the downtown skyline or one of two fully-contained, landscaped courtyards. One courtyard is designed to function as the community's social hub, equipped with a pool, deck, terraces and a patio that feeds into the ground level's indoor gathering space. The second other courtyard is intended to become a quiet retreat and green oasis. An interior garage will provide parking for residents while angled parking spaces will be added along the adjoining streets to accommodate visitors and patrons of a grocery and restaurant facing NE 2.

"What was driving the housing market 30 years ago is very different from what's going on today. You've got 25 percent of households being single people now, and being single can be pretty lonely in suburbia where everyone else has families and kids. ”
Richard McKown
Construction is set to start within the next couple weeks after a process that McKnown admits has sometimes felt like “a roller-coaster ride.” Some of the extra scrutiny came with the successful application for $1.25 million in tax increment financing. The deal, approved by the Oklahoma City Council on Tuesday, is the first that provides the city a guarantee of being paid back. McKnown won't receive the money until after the project is fully built and opened.



Read more: http://newsok.com/24-million-apartment-complex-planned-in-deep-deuce/article/3530123#ixzz1AQ3qk4sB

Grocery? Did someone mention grocery?

EXCELLENT provision, he doesn't get the money from the City until the project is complete and open!

Grocery. He told me a "European market concept".

I think it might be more similar to one of the organic grocers around here already, but a "European market concept" would be even cooler.

For those of us that are clueless, what is "European market concept"?

I think is where the store kind of spills out onto the sidewalk with fresh fruits and vegetables on display in bins outside the store.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_942bZDzo47Y/TGjEt_GaggI/AAAAAAAAABM/K-7eCbDT3qI/s1600/Fresh+Market+Display.jpg

It is cool to call it a "European market", but that could be anything. The markets there are diverse. Heck, Aldi is a European market. I would like it to be as depicted above, but our extreme weather could be a problem.

Is it just me, but from a marketing perspective, the name doesn't seem to resonate. Am I just the wrong demographic? Am I just too uncool to understand? What is it supposed to mean? Someone cool enlighten me please. Spartan?

I have always thought Aldi would be a nice addition to Downtown. We lived @ Park Harvey for a Year and outside of
parking becoming a nightmare when Devon construction got started we loved it. Aldi would work nicely for
downtown residents.


Chris
http://www.radiookc.com

FYI - we have a new auto-correct software that gets too aggressive... his name is Richard McKown, not McKnown

FYI - we have a new auto-correct software that gets too aggressive... his name is Richard McKown, not McKnown

Sounds to me like the programmers didn't create logic that properly separates names from the rest of the structured sentence.

No, it's a bit more complicated than that. It allows for writers and reporters to put in commonly misspelled names, and then it tries to force a correction even if this is a different name. Don't get me started... I might go into a full rant.

On these apartments, what material is the white? EIFS?

No, it's a bit more complicated than that. It allows for writers and reporters to put in commonly misspelled names, and then it tries to force a correction even if this is a different name. Don't get me started... I might go into a full rant.

Maybe you guys should just switch to using Microsoft Word.

Moving on....

I remember asking about EIFS on these apartments back when the plans first came out, and I thought I remembered Steve telling me it would be a higher end finish than EIFS. Do I remember correctly?

No, it's a bit more complicated than that. It allows for writers and reporters to put in commonly misspelled names, and then it tries to force a correction even if this is a different name. Don't get me started... I might go into a full rant.

In addition, Beebe's name was misspelled.

And so was project 180, the joklahoman put project18

Tough crowd. Jesus, people.

Any chance any of these units could be for sale? I know they are built as apartments for rent but I like what Sycamore Square is doing in selling some of theirs.

Any chance any of these units could be for sale? I know they are built as apartments for rent but I like what Sycamore Square is doing in selling some of theirs.

That is usually the natural trend, which OKC tried to skip a few years ago. Start out as rental and then go condo after the neighborhood get established.

I remember asking about EIFS on these apartments back when the plans first came out, and I thought I remembered Steve telling me it would be a higher end finish than EIFS. Do I remember correctly?I think I remember this, too. But even if it is going to be EIFS at least the first floor will be brick (according to the renderings). EIFS on the first floor of buildings is the worst!

It is cool to call it a "European market", but that could be anything. The markets there are diverse. Heck, Aldi is a European market. I would like it to be as depicted above, but our extreme weather could be a problem.

Is it just me, but from a marketing perspective, the name doesn't seem to resonate. Am I just the wrong demographic? Am I just too uncool to understand? What is it supposed to mean? Someone cool enlighten me please. Spartan?

I imagine it is more like Level - urban apartments, as in the latter is describing the project.

I imagine it is more like Level - urban apartments, as in the latter is describing the project.

Like maybe there are more to come using the 'Urban Apartments" or "Level" moniker? Post Properties does that with all their apartments.

Site for Level Urban Apartments, occupants of an apartment in this complex will have a great view:

Pics Taken (01/06/11)

https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo07/8c/51/b8709c0aabb9__1294339956000.jpg
https://www.t-mobilepictures.com/myalbum/photos/photo10/14/6e/20bdef5a7dec__1294339877000.jpeg

Site for Level Urban Apartments, occupants of an apartment in this complex will have a great view:

Pics Taken (01/06/11)


Cool - and so it begins. Another photo thread for me to refresh every 15 minutes.

Cool - and so it begins. Another photo thread for me to refresh every 15 minutes.

LOL - but there are two construction sites at this corner. The 7 story Aloft Hotel will be right across the street. Pete - we are going to need another web cam.

I am very excited about this project! For the first time in OKC, I think we will see a solid built modern urban apartment complex, with retail ,nice parking garage and a great view.

Agreed. I'm already interested in moving there... Exciting.

Here are the renderings for reference:

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/1329313/lead620/

http://photos.newsok.com/2/showimage/1329314/gallery_photo

The name is total ****. Fail.

Also, it's so sad when they have to use descriptors like "Urban Apartments." What a joke.

This is why people hire branding experts, because they cannot do it right themselves.

Still, this is a very exciting concept; too bad it has such ****ty branding.

At least it's not got some faux Italian, French or English name. I'm kind of nonplussed by the name, because I don't really understand what they're trying to do with the name, or what it means but I'm glad it won't have some grand sign saying "Desperanza". Is it s reference to an old street name or building name in Deep Deuce. That would make sense. The block isn't level, so is it a celebration of the fact that despite it's irregularity, the building will be level? Dunno.

What's so bad about LEVEL? Sounds urban to me.

Could "Level" be a tongue-and-cheek play off the "Aloft" hotel across the street?

So the Aloft will be on the SW corner of NE 2 & Walnut, and this apartment complex will be on the NW corner, correct? Are they taking up the entire block from Walnut to Oklahoma, NE 2 to NE 3? Or just the half of the block facing NE 2? I seem to remember the land facing NE 3 between Walnut and Oklahoma will be more Maywood Park townhomes, but not completely sure.

Wish we could see a site plan...

On a side note, will Deep Deuce apartments ever be completely finished? There are several gaps that could be filled with new buildings throughout the development, like along NE 3 east of Walnut (both the north and south sides of the street), on NE 2 near Sage and Deep Deuce Grill, and on NE 1 closer to Stiles and The Hill. It would really make that area feel a lot more dense and with these new developments will really create a nice urban neighborhood north of Bricktown.

Could "Level" be a tongue-and-cheek play off the "Aloft" hotel across the street?

One is aloft and temporary while the other is level and permanent. Hmmm.

It will be real interesting to see what happens to Deep Deuce when Level are in because they are so poorly run. I would think all of DDs residents will be at the level within a year. Hopefully that will force them to actually run their apartment complex well...

This sounds like very good news for the east downtown area to me. Very happy to see that not only is something being announced but a construction start is immanent.

What's so bad about LEVEL? Sounds urban to me.

Seriously, what is "urban" about the name Level? Is this some inside story? I do a lot of urban development projects and don't know of precedent. Is Level some street code?

Level sounds urban to me also. I don't have a problem with it.

I guess if the name resonates with the targeted clientel then it is a good name. If Level is something that does that, great. I am not their demographic target, so what do I know.

I did just look it up on the "Urban Dictionary" and found this for level:
completely honest and above-board. givin' it to you straight, with no exceptions. straight talk. like a true brother.

So, maybe it fits.

I guess if the name resonates with the targeted clientel then it is a good name. If Level is something that does that, great. I am not their demographic target, so what do I know.

I did just look it up on the "Urban Dictionary" and found this for level:
completely honest and above-board. givin' it to you straight, with no exceptions. straight talk. like a true brother.

So, maybe it fits.

I'm probably in their targetted demographic and I am definitely interested in moving there when it opens. I think names like Level sound off at first, but once the place is built I think it will work. Level definitely makes me think of being "on the level," which has a nice feel to it. Just my opinion...

I hope people don't lose their enthusiasm when they see the rental rates... Which are sure to be significantly higher than Deep Deuce or much else in the area.

I hope people don't lose their enthusiasm when they see the rental rates... Which are sure to be significantly higher than Deep Deuce or much else in the area.

What do you think they will be? Something new and contemporary with higher end finishes in the kitchen and bathrooms (which it appears this development will include) can command a higher rate.

Will there be a pool and/or fitness center? That also can justify a higher rate, and is a big reason Deep Deuce and especially Legacy are so popular.

There will a pool according to the article... And several will have a view, which always commands a premium.


I make the comment in the previous post because all along people have been clamoring for lofts and condos and slick developments but in the end most people stay away because they can get more for less 15 minutes away.

Rentals have fared better but I suspect this development will cost significantly more than anything we have seen to date.

I am always amused about the amenities issue in the "urban" apartments. My wife and I have an apartment in NYC in the Chelsea/Meat Packing/Village district and I bet there isn't a swimming pool or gym in any of the apartment buildings in the area. Now THAT is urban. I think the younger renters here want suburban style apartment buildings not real "urban".

I would think that among new developments, almost all have a pool. For those that are adaptive use (like Park Harvey and The Montgomery) it's much harder to work in.

Renters like pools and it's a good investment by the developers. In tight quarters, tenants need a place to be outside and nice common areas are big selling points when prospects take the property tour.


As far as a fitness center, I think that's less important in this particular area because a very nice Y is just a couple of blocks away --easy walking distance.

So the Aloft will be on the SW corner of NE 2 & Walnut, and this apartment complex will be on the NW corner, correct? Are they taking up the entire block from Walnut to Oklahoma, NE 2 to NE 3? Or just the half of the block facing NE 2? I seem to remember the land facing NE 3 between Walnut and Oklahoma will be more Maywood Park townhomes, but not completely sure.

Wish we could see a site plan...
On a side note, will Deep Deuce apartments ever be completely finished? There are several gaps that could be filled with
new buildings throughout the development, like along NE 3 east of Walnut (both the north and south sides of the street),
on NE 2 near Sage and Deep Deuce Grill, and on NE 1 closer to Stiles and The Hill. It would really make that area feel a
lot more dense and with these new developments will really create a nice urban neighborhood north of Bricktown.

It will be the whole block. The Maywood project was scrapped after the economy tanked. Check the other thread on this same development. Also, those vacant lots at Deep Deuce you speak of are actually ODOT right of ways, don't ask why as it makes no sense to me. You won't see them filled in with more DD apartments.

I am very excited about this project! For the first time in OKC, I think we will see a solid built modern urban apartment complex, with retail ,nice parking garage and a great view.

I really hope it is solid construction. There are dozens of developments just like this one in Austin and even more in Dallas, and I know many of them have low quality construction (by far the worst problems being poor sound insulation between units and broken elevators). These "urban" apartments usually look great inside and out, but many aren't built well at all.

The complex I live in near downtown Austin falls into that category and the poor sound insulation is always the major topic of discussion at community meetings, and probably one major reason for what seems to be a high turnover rate (aside from the high rent--starting at $1300+/mo. for a small 1/1).

At a total project cost of appx $100,000 per unit, I doubt it will be of great quality. You can't get something for nothing.

Rover, that's the initial cost per unit, not bad. Deep Deuce Apts I think was less, and even when they resold the whole complex a few years ago it fetched a state record price per unit that I think was right around $100k/unit. I would certainly love to have a unit there, but I'd have to be on the waiting list for at least 3-4 months. For example, my best friend from high school got tired of being on their waiting list for an apartment and gave up and went to the Lincoln @ Central Park instead.


So the Aloft will be on the SW corner of NE 2 & Walnut, and this apartment complex will be on the NW corner, correct? Are they taking up the entire block from Walnut to Oklahoma, NE 2 to NE 3? Or just the half of the block facing NE 2? I seem to remember the land facing NE 3 between Walnut and Oklahoma will be more Maywood Park townhomes, but not completely sure.

Wish we could see a site plan...

On a side note, will Deep Deuce apartments ever be completely finished? There are several gaps that could be filled with new buildings throughout the development, like along NE 3 east of Walnut (both the north and south sides of the street), on NE 2 near Sage and Deep Deuce Grill, and on NE 1 closer to Stiles and The Hill. It would really make that area feel a lot more dense and with these new developments will really create a nice urban neighborhood north of Bricktown.

I'm not sure I can answer these questions any better than anyone else has, but I noticed a few points were left out by others:

1. The other Maywood-related developments proposed were more brownstones, the Leslie, and Maywood Hall. There were actually supposed to be over a hundred brownstones at one point, but I never really believed that would happen, and I used to be delusional enough to think Overholser Green was a good idea which is saying something. There is still land between the lofts and the brownstones that will probably be developed after the lofts sell out.. And LEVEL will be the entire block, which is GREAT.

2. Deep Deuce Apartments will not be finished. It is the most successful rental project in the state's history and Somerset has already sold it off to other owners who are just an apartment management company, so it's not even owned by anyone with a development arm anymore. OCURA needs to get off their asses and take the land back from Somerset, but they need to do a lot of things, and the Somerset land should have been addressed yeeears ago already.

I don't know about being owned by ODOT. Those sites you mentioned aren't even close to 235.


I am always amused about the amenities issue in the "urban" apartments. My wife and I have an apartment in NYC in the Chelsea/Meat Packing/Village district and I bet there isn't a swimming pool or gym in any of the apartment buildings in the area. Now THAT is urban. I think the younger renters here want suburban style apartment buildings not real "urban".

Rover, you're absolutely right about this. But keep in mind this is the sunbelt, different culture. I think in Houston and Miami, which are just condo central these days, you can not have urban living OR suburban living without the pool. It might have more to do with that?

But you're thoughts are still on point. I've always thought common areas in apartment complexes were pretty pointless. In Calgary I paid a lot less (but still a lot) for an apartment in a building with zero common areas..nearby buildings with smaller apartments were more expensive. I just didn't understand it, and you see that a LOT in Norman too. I guess the thinking in college-dominated areas is that common areas are where the party is...except no property management group is going to go for alcohol and young people of unknown ages anywhere near their common areas. Just my perception of it, being in college myself, and knowing how people evaluate spaces based on the kind of party they think they could have there..

It seems like in NYC, Boston, Chicago, etc., the residents in the "urban" areas tend to use private clubs for working out, swimming, etc. and the , real coffee houses, clubs and restaurants for getting together and hanging out. The corner bakery becomes a gathering point in the morning, the street-side and sidewalk tables at restaurants the places to watch and greet each other, and the clubs to go partying at night. For families the little pocket parks are often safe havens for the them to sit and play a little, (also for the more matured). Adaptive uses of places like the High Line park in NYC are great. I just think (and even understanding the cultural differences) that the "urban" richness and lifestyle is not just sub-urban placed downtown. It is a lifestyle. It is that lifestyle that creates demand for the bakeries, local small restaurants, cool urban clubs, intimate little shops, etc. Sitting by the pool and drinking beers out of your cooler does little to add to the mosaic that should be urban living. If everyone who professes wanting the lifestyle and to be "cool" would actually act "cool", it would develop. Being urban isn't just cool names,body art and a low numbered address.

Just my observations, fwiw

As it seems everyone is interested, I invite you all to visit www.levelokc.com. I encourage you to take part in the weekly polls to help shape the future of OKC's urban living landscape, and sign up for LEVEL's emails while you're there to keep you informed as new announcements are made. And I would be remiss if I didn't point you all to www.facebook.com/levelokc and www.twitter.com/levelokc.

On the name subject; seeing the logo, you'll understand it a bit more. @metro was correct on that one. And @Kerry, you never know what the future holds, so we always build brands with flexibility and extendibility in mind.

http://www.levelokc.com/okc-talk-level-logo.png

Glad to see everyone interested in LEVEL Urban Apartments thus far. We're excited to be working with Richard McKown on the project, and look forward to the build process starting this month.

100k per unit seems like a plentiful budget to build something very well.

100k per unit seems like a plentiful budget to build something very well.

That is about the level of a cost of a Marriott Courtyard per room. Given this includes retail spaces on one of the 4 floors, that seems low unless the apartments are small.