...almost reminds me of some prefabricated construction of newer student housing in Sweden.

I for one like it. It is an urban apartment, it is meant for light cooking and sleeping. I am not even sure I would own a TV if I lived there, although I am sure someone will try to pack in a 60 incher. Someday when these units go condo you can add some higher quality fixtures and cabinets without having to break the bank.

Yeah maybe once it is all done it will look better, that picture just really made it look cheap.

Agree, looked like cheap fixtures and appliances.

Everybody wants apartments downtown, but people build apartments only to generate cash. So, they cut corners where they can and make them just nice enough to generate the price point they need. Homeowners are willing to pay for aesthetics, not landlords.

I'm waiting for the pendulum of public opinion to swing in a few years, but by then we may have a few more LEVELs aging ungracefully perhaps.

I for one like it. It is an urban apartment, it is meant for light cooking and sleeping. I am not even sure I would own a TV if I lived there, although I am sure someone will try to pack in a 60 incher. Someday when these units go condo you can add some higher quality fixtures and cabinets without having to break the bank.

Kerry, but when someone is shelling out $1000+ for a one bedroom in OKC, then they should get the fixtures to match the budget. If this was in ATL, CHI, NYC, SF,SEA, MIA, LV, then I could see them cheating out on fixtures, but $1000 will buy you a lot in OKC, even downtown.

Yuck! Those cabinets are very cheap looking... and white appliances, with white tile? So freaking boring for an urban apartment in my opinion.

The all white isn't bad, it's just the quality they chose, and I agree, white appliances aren't the best lok for this, but it's much cheaper than stainless is why they probably cheaped out.

I think a fair portion of the $1000 is accounted for in the location and parking deck. Only the microwave is white, the rest will be black.

I got lambasted early on for criticizing this finish level. If people could see what is being done in other "urban" areas they might expect more here. Though I like the general architecture I am also disappointed that the exterior is basically slightly better eifs (though it is technically stucco). I hope the rest of the finish is better throughout.

I just don't see the point in criticizing the finish level, especially when you're all pretty hesitant in criticizing the real culprits downtown. There is no question that LEVEL is an unprecedented step in the right direction for OKC, regardless of whether downtown's high-level executives are knocking the door down at the leasing office.

I don't remember the exact figure, but the construction cost per living unit is extraordinarily high for an apartment development in this part of the country. I want to say it's around $120,000? (I figure giving someone an opportunity to correct my post is the best and easiest way of getting someone to look it up for me)

They wouldn't post the photo if McKown, who really gets the creative class as a potential downtown force, didn't stand by it. At some point, a microwave (which most consider an amenity) is so minute a detail when I feel like we're getting beleaguered by crappy developments, hidden interests, building demolitions left and right, block demolitions, landmark demolitions, broken public works projects, and political controversy to name a few (at least we're not Tulsa yet). How can anyone have the energy or devotion to criticize the microwaves that are pre-installed and waiting to be used by future tenants when there are so many bigger and more important issues??

P.S. Stainless steel microwaves would look better with wooden cabinetry or black paint, I think it would look awful with white. That's just my opinion, and you probably would not want me to redesign your place so take it with a grain of salt. :-P

I just don't see the point in criticizing the finish level, especially when you're pretty hesitant in criticizing the real culprits downtown. There is no question that LEVEL is an unprecedented step in the right direction for OKC, regardless of whether downtown's high-level executives are knocking the door down at the leasing offic.

Why is it unprecedented? The Deep Deuce Apartments have been in existence for years, and in many ways are more visually appropriate to the neighborhood.

I think LEVEL will end up looking fine, once they get the balconies done, but it's really just an apartment building, and a fairly bare bones one at that. In fact, I'm asking myself why the Edge was required to come back with a design showing more brick on the facade, and LEVEL got away with very little.

Well that's $1200/mo. I think LEVEL is actually the Edge of what people can afford within 2-4 years of graduating.

LEVEL is unprecedented because it's bringing a small albeit legitimate locally-owned grocery option to downtown. It's also unprecedented due to its urban form, how it fills an entire block AND will define an entire block (one which is wedged between other new urban developments in a way that is also unprecedented for OKC).

And I might even credit it with flying in the face of the obsession with for-sale condominium units in the wake of the realities of the 2008 financial crash.

Requiring them to factor in some more brick would have countered their design approach (whereas Edge clearly is designed for a more masonry-heavy traditionalist look), however I agree that if we as a city just understood a little more about EIFS and different alternatives and similar building systems then we could have a policy that required utterly impeccable stucco or whatever makes us happy. That would no doubt be a VERY good idea, problem is...it would probably not be enforced, just like every other building "suggestion" (formerly known as codes) in OKC.

I find it interesting that those that hold some to such high standards are apologists for others. I continue to say that we should expect more from everyone, not just those in or out of favor. We need a permanent and sustaining downtown.

I'm a generalist on this one. I'm not into the discussion about other projects in the broad vicinity ... Deep Deuce Apartments, the Hill, others. They are not the same thing. What I am into is having a renters (i.e., apartment) complex which looks good from the outside and which is sufficiently appealing on the inside to potential tenants to rent their apartments to fill the space (land area). My generalist impression is that the developer of this project has met my personal criteria, and I'm very pleased for this infill and will be glad to witness its opening, and I think this is a fine development for Oklahoma City.

If a previous post is accurate, the prices range is 1BR $850 – $1,160; for 2BR $1,270 – $1,520 (and that price range is verified here (http://www.levelokc.com/space)). Truly, one can find similar space outside of downtown for those amounts, probably in Midtown (I've not checked). Make no mistake, there is a price premium for truly living in the center of the city, which, for those who wish to promote the desirability of living downtown, seems fair enough. But it should be understood that part of the rental price is that singular quality ... living downtown. Many will not see the value of doing so, but others will, hopefully enough to make this project successful.

JustTheFacts said in an earlier post in this thread,


Downtown apartments are running 98% full with market rates 50% higher than the city average. That indicates there is no shortage of demand.

If that is accurate, then this project should succeed nicely. Were I a young person working downtown, I'd certainly be pleased to be living in an apartment shown by the previously shown renderings which is near to work, Bricktown, and Chesapeake Arena, as well as downtown generally.

Rover, I'm very inclined to agree with that. You totally called me out. I'll admit that I wish he used real stucco. I wish the Bricktown Hampton didn't use "stucco," and I wish the adjoining new hotel didn't incorporate the same facade elements which I think will have an ugly stripe effect across the Bricktown skyline like an EIFS impression of some 80's addidas sneakers or something like that. I wish that Legacy wasn't utter crap.

My feelings on those are just really sedate compared to how strongly I feel about 50+ other issues. I lament our DOWNTOWN building standards being so low that if anyone finds them on the ground, please pick them up for us. I just think ultimately we're going to really appreciate this one project a lot. If there's any project that got little scrutiny (BUDC just threw their hands up and shouted "I can't vote no!") it's the House of Bedlam. I could probably write 10 pages just venting about that and pointing blame one way and another and cursing the BUDC this way and that, but why?

There's a lot going on downtown. A lot of it is really good. A lot of it is just so frustrating that I almost want to just pull a BUDC and be like the monkey who says "Hear no evil, see no evil, speak no evil." What can you do? Maybe we can all just agree that downtown's boundaries should just be changed to 2-3 blocks centered around 9th and Broadway. No plans to screw that up, right? (Knock on wood)

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9V_1YB_ZO-tUNL0xTiQwQ4qrLjRrGdSJwl81yRCaKrB5SE7LZi9ppZe9M

I know we do this comparison often, but I can not resist. In Dallas I can easily rent an apartment in downtown or uptown with much nicer interior for around 1,000 a month. So I am sorry but I do not agree with the design choice for the interior, it looks cheap thus far.

Well now that our Dallas comparison porn for this page of this thread is out of the way...

(Just giving you a hard time lol)

Well now that our Dallas comparison porn for this page of this thread is out of the way...

(Just giving you a hard time lol)

lol, I really hate to compare to Dallas every time, but this one is just too easy.

Spartan, we agree on this. I feel like this development is mostly very positive and if maintained will sustain for long enough to help the core progress. There are other battles needing to be fought more.

Well now that our Dallas comparison porn for this page of this thread is out of the way...

(Just giving you a hard time lol)

I was think more of comparisons to projects I've been on in Seattle, Austin, Denver, Chicago, and others.

I know we do this comparison often, but I can not resist. In Dallas I can easily rent an apartment in downtown or uptown with much nicer interior for around 1,000 a month. So I am sorry but I do not agree with the design choice for the interior, it looks cheap thus far.
Unless you are making no distinction between an apartment in the core of downtown OKC v. core of downtown Dallas, and near this city's major entertainment district v. a similar district in Dallas, and near this city's basketball arena, all at the same time, you are comparing apples and oranges. Less expensive rents can be found near-downtown here, too. But that is not the same thing.

Well, I'd probably be in the target demographic and if I move back to OKC (a possibility) I will look into living there. I'm satisfied, but I don't have the expertise others here do. To my untrained eye, it looks great.

Unless you are making no distinction between an apartment in the core of downtown OKC v. core of downtown Dallas, and near this city's major entertainment district v. a similar district in Dallas, and near this city's basketball arena, all at the same time, you are comparing apples and oranges. Less expensive rents can be found near-downtown here, too. But that is not the same thing.

You know, one thing that is a little strange to me is when developers pitch "near the Thunder basketball arena" because you never hear that in other cities. Including Calgary where the Flames are so enshrined in the identity. I guess in Green Bay...

I know it's a great pitch, not detracting from it. Maybe it's more about an "all-America" feel than a matter of size.

Maybe it's more about an "all-America" feel than a matter of size.

Spartan, I don't understand that statement at all. Please elaborate.

From Monday January 23. Sorry these take so long to do.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS7Jvg3f9Gc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS7Jvg3f9Gc

While I was doing video Monday, I was walking along 2nd street and a man came over. I thought "Oh boy...what's this guy going to say to me." It ended up being Richard McKown. We talked for about twenty minutes. I threw out the usual names like "OKCTalk" and "Steve Lackmeyer". He was familiar with both. Really friendly, and pitched the idea of us doing an in-depth tour of the inside. He mentioned a lot of things I can't really remember. He talked about the architects in London, how there's a scale model that they'd like to ship over but said how hard that would be to get it shipped over here. He said the upper floors were angled just right to see the skyline from the living room. How/why they chose the black brick on the ground floor. Lots of things. Gave me his card.

Link?

Why is it unprecedented? The Deep Deuce Apartments have been in existence for years, and in many ways are more visually appropriate to the neighborhood.

I think LEVEL will end up looking fine, once they get the balconies done, but it's really just an apartment building, and a fairly bare bones one at that. In fact, I'm asking myself why the Edge was required to come back with a design showing more brick on the facade, and LEVEL got away with very little.

Betts,

Your last few posts are lacking your usual excitement toward your neighborhood, and specifically the Brownstones of Maywood park. Being that this is your neighborhood and you are the only Okctalk that regularly represents Deep Deuce,,,what is the overall feel of the neighborhood, now that this project is further along?

The brownstones are such high quality are you and other neighbors worried about property values or is it something else?

You know, one thing that is a little strange to me is when developers pitch "near the Thunder basketball arena" because you never hear that in other cities. Including Calgary where the Flames are so enshrined in the identity. I guess in Green Bay...

I know it's a great pitch, not detracting from it. Maybe it's more about an "all-America" feel than a matter of size.

Right now it is the only really big volume draw downtown. We can't tout shopping or a mature night life....yes there are places to go get drunk, but not yet a quality and variety of entertainment spots. Myriad Gardens helps. More restaurants help, and certainly the theaters help. I go to Calgary from time to time. Seems more diversity of interests downtown.

As more units are built downtown competition will eventually kick in. Just like the condos started on the high side so too will the apartments. Of course, there will also be a greater verity of apartments (and condos) on the market that will allow people to move up and down the rent ladder as their life and economic situation changes, all without have to move out of the area. That is the beauty of an urban environment - just because you make more or less money, kids come/kids go, spouses come/spouses go - you don't have to change the neighborhood you live in.

Well I'm in the targeted demographic (20's no kids, downtown professional) and I would strongly consider LEVEL and am in fact thinking of getting an application. The light fixture could be better but I would imagine most would be using the groovy hanging lights anyway. White, clean and simple are in, just go to an IKEA store. Plus my current place has stainless steel and can tell you its vastly overrated.

I certainly am not going to look at one pic and blast the interior as cheap. But at the end of the day it is an apartment, so you have to take it for what its worth.


I know we do this comparison often, but I can not resist. In Dallas I can easily rent an apartment in downtown or uptown with much nicer interior for around 1,000 a month.

In the suburbs, yes. In downtown/uptown, not at all. A comparably sized apartment of really upscale quality is going to start at $1200-$1300/month, if not more.

Here's an example of a place in Dallas with pretty similar price points. Its a bit older but you get an idea looking at the picture. Nice but not blowing anything away.

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/AMLI-at-Cityplace/17008/

For a $100 you can always go to Lowes and buy fixtures that fit your taste and take them with you from apartment to apartment. It would actually be a cool idea if the apartments let you pick a style from a preselected package and charge you a one-time fee for switching out things like light covers, drawer handles, ceiling fans, towel racks, door knobs, and faucet handles. Most of that stuff can be changed in minutes.

For example:
Entry Level Package - Free
Modern Package - $200
Old World - $300

What isn't being used by an apartment can go to storage and replacement parts. I would probably pay the price difference to upgrade the fixtures.

$100. Hmmmm. Certainly wouldn't be a quality upgrade.

Actually, JTF. That is not true as a lot of leases/rent do not allow you to remove improvements once installed. For example...I put my own toilet in there and pull it out when I leave.... carpet, wall paper, etc. It is assumed in a lot of lease and rent agreements that tenant made permanent improvements (attached, installed to the infrastructure) stay with the structure and do not go with the tenant.

For a $100 you can always go to Lowes and buy fixtures that fit your taste and take them with you from apartment to apartment. It would actually be a cool idea if the apartments let you pick a style from a preselected package and charge you a one-time fee for switching out things like light covers, drawer handles, ceiling fans, towel racks, door knobs, and faucet handles. Most of that stuff can be changed in minutes.

For example:
Entry Level Package - Free
Modern Package - $200
Old World - $300

What isn't being used by an apartment can go to storage and replacement parts. I would probably pay the price difference to upgrade the fixtures.

Prices are too low for anything quality.

Right now it is the only really big volume draw downtown. We can't tout shopping or a mature night life....yes there are places to go get drunk, but not yet a quality and variety of entertainment spots. Myriad Gardens helps. More restaurants help, and certainly the theaters help. I go to Calgary from time to time. Seems more diversity of interests downtown.

I think Calgary is remarkable in how it developed exactly as OKC developed. There was a cheesy entertainment district that pitched its proximity to 70s-era superblock-style facilities (Eau Claire Market). CBD core is truly corporation-dominated. Rent gap made the far-flung edge of downtown a jungle of residential construction cranes. Now most of downtown's vitality seems to be shifting away from the corporations, away from the "traditional draws" of the Stampede grounds and the riverfront and whatnot, and down to the south of the LRT tracks in what is known as the Beltline, if you've ever seen that region. I think that is very similar to how mixed-use development activity has clearly shifted to the north of the abandoned Rock Island tracks in OKC and other neighborhoods outside the CBD and Bricktown.

The rent gap is a classic real estate scenario that has every major city looking for the next big opportunity, but I think bad planning has exacerbated it in OKC whereas it really just shouldn't be as prevalent.

Well I'm in the targeted demographic (20's no kids, downtown professional) and I would strongly consider LEVEL and am in fact thinking of getting an application. The light fixture could be better but I would imagine most would be using the groovy hanging lights anyway. White, clean and simple are in, just go to an IKEA store. Plus my current place has stainless steel and can tell you its vastly overrated.

I certainly am not going to look at one pic and blast the interior as cheap. But at the end of the day it is an apartment, so you have to take it for what its worth.



In the suburbs, yes. In downtown/uptown, not at all. A comparably sized apartment of really upscale quality is going to start at $1200-$1300/month, if not more.

Here's an example of a place in Dallas with pretty similar price points. Its a bit older but you get an idea looking at the picture. Nice but not blowing anything away.

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/AMLI-at-Cityplace/17008/

I call BS... I am in Dallas frequently, as I have several friends that live in downtown/uptown Dallas and I know how much they pay in rent...

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/Broadstone-Ambrose/80558/

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/Mosaic/59242/

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/BLVD/177616/

The list goes on and on..... these are not in the suburbs.... in plano... you can easily live in a really nice apartment for 800 a month.....

Actually, JTF. That is not true as a lot of leases/rent do not allow you to remove improvements once installed. For example...I put my own toilet in there and pull it out when I leave.... carpet, wall paper, etc. It is assumed in a lot of lease and rent agreements that tenant made permanent improvements (attached, installed to the infrastructure) stay with the structure and do not go with the tenant.

I guess it depends on what kind of changes you want to make. While changing out a toilet is easy work, you have to store the orginal toilet so you can put it back. Door knobs and light covers could be stored in box at the top of a closet. I couldn't even imagine hanging wallpaper or putting my own carpet in an apartment.

Metro - I made those prices up. Use whatever price you want.

I call BS... I am in Dallas frequently, as I have several friends that live in downtown/uptown Dallas and I know how much they pay in rent...

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/Broadstone-Ambrose/80558/

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/Mosaic/59242/

http://www.apartmentguide.com/apartments/Texas/Dallas/BLVD/177616/

The list goes on and on..... these are not in the suburbs.... in plano... you can easily live in a really nice apartment for 800 a month.....

Call BS if you want. I lived there for 8 years and have several friends in downtown/uptown as well. I've never heard anyone paying less the the mid 900s, unless they had a roommate or moved outside the general downtown/uptown boundaries. $800/month may get you a studio in uptown, but for a 1 BR? You'll be looking at a shag carpet special in Oak Lawn probably underneath the Love Field flight path.

FYI only the second link you posted is located in the downtown/uptown area. The first is in a so-so part of Deep Ellum and the third is practically in Highland Park. The place off Akard in downtown is about 200/month more than anything you'd pay at LEVEL.

Semantics aside, we can certainly argue the quality of LEVEL. But I think it is priced right given the location of it and the access to stores, restaurants, etc. And the level of pre leasing seams to indicate this.

Again, we need to wait for a model unit to be finished before judging.

Those "cheap" cabinets appear to be lacquer and we already know they are using granite counter tops. I'm sure the white microwave was chosen to help create the white/black look not necessarily to cheap out.

As far as rent, the beautiful thing is that the market is self-regulating. If people don't want to pay them or there are better options for the money, they will come down. If they get the posted prices, it will make it that much easier for more complexes to be built.


BTW, I noticed on the floor plan that the only retail/restaurant space for rent is a 2,700 square foot space with a patio on 2nd street. Besides Native Roots on the corner, there will be a leasing office and small gym on the ground floor -- the rest will be apartments.

Yeah. That's what I remember from the initial plans. I think they initially pitched it as a grocery and BBQ sports bar or something just to create a vision.

From today.

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Downtown%20OKC/LEVEL-Aloft/LEVELUrbanApartments1-28-12.jpg

Not as interesting as some of the pictures I've seen on here, but my wife and I took a whole bunch of pictures yesterday.

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0364.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0359.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0357.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0356.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0353.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0351.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0349.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0348.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0346.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0344.jpg

http://i1251.photobucket.com/albums/hh553/FantasticOKC/DSCN0343.jpg

Who's the architect?

Who's the architect?

ALLFORD HALL MONAGHAN MORRIS, from the UK.

http://www.ahmm.co.uk/

ALLFORD HALL MONAGHAN MORRIS, from the UK.

http://www.ahmm.co.uk/
The OKC connection is Wade Scaramucci (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/People/27/Wade-Scaramucci/), who is from here. And before you ask, yes, it's the same Scaramucci.

The OKC connection is Wade Scaramucci (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/People/27/Wade-Scaramucci/), who is from here. And before you ask, yes, it's the same Scaramucci.
Wade is a Westmoore High School graduate. I believe from the class of '90.

The OKC connection is Wade Scaramucci (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/People/27/Wade-Scaramucci/), who is from here. And before you ask, yes, it's the same Scaramucci.

*facepalm*

*facepalm*

*facepalm*

Excellent photos, Fantastic, some of the best posted here in my opinion.

Excellent photos, Fantastic, some of the best posted here in my opinion.

Thank you Doug, coming from you that is quite a compiment... unfortunately our camera broke this morning durring an illfated attempt to do something remarkable involving cupcakes. (don't ask, I was not here for the incident)

Interesting update from Steve's 2/11 article:


Developer Richard McKown confirms construction is on schedule for an opening of the $24 million complex this spring. Build-out of the Native Roots Market grocery is about to begin within the next few weeks, and McKown reports negotiations are under way with “a very exciting operator” for restaurant space next to the grocery on the complex's first floor along NE 2. McKown reports he has a waiting list of 150 people and he expects his development efforts in the area will continue after Level is completed.

Read more: http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-city-abuzz-with-building/article/3648172#ixzz1m5rO9Uze

The OKC connection is Wade Scaramucci (http://www.ahmm.co.uk/People/27/Wade-Scaramucci/), who is from here. And before you ask, yes, it's the same Scaramucci.

They are the designers. ADG is the local architect who did the drawings and is doing the construction administration.

You know, there is a lot of empty retail space on the floor level of the units (condos? apts?) east of level, between it and the railroad. Do you think all this ground floor retail will have trouble filling up, or is the currently empty situation because of all the construction? That maybe this space will fill up once all the construction of Level and Aloft dies down?

I think a lot of retail does not want to move into those spaces because they're not ground level... which is the whole attraction. Destination places like the hair salon are good bets, but I wouldn't put a restaurant or bar or clothing place there because it just kind of gets lost up there. I do think they'll fill up though...

Those spots aren't considered ground level because they are up a few steps?

An oil company just took a good chunk of space at the far west end.

I'm sure the rest will fill with office/service type tenants once Level and Aloft get rolling.

Those spots aren't considered ground level because they are up a few steps?

Yes, and it's more than a few steps.

Those spots aren't considered ground level because they are up a few steps?

I know it sounds weird, but the difference between being ground level and up a flight of stairs is pretty big. It's just easy to forget about those businesses. Have you ever seen a two level strip mall off the side of the street or highway? You'll never find, for example, a sandwich shop on the second level because those second level businesses tend to get ignored by passers-by.

I know it sounds weird, but the difference between being ground level and up a flight of stairs is pretty big. It's just easy to forget about those businesses. Have you ever seen a two level strip mall off the side of the street or highway? You'll never find, for example, a sandwich shop on the second level because those second level businesses tend to get ignored by passers-by.

To second this thought - anything that is not exactly even with the sidewalk will have a hard time if they rely on walk-up business. Even just a few feet in elevation difference (up or down) can make a big difference. Places that people seek-out like hair salons, gyms, doctor's office, etc can make a go of it so long as they are still visable from the sidewalk.

From today:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/level21712.jpg

Great shot, we can see how things are progressing at both locations.