For those who think Penn Square is only busy at Christmas, this is from Saturday March 9th:

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they should really surround PSM with parking structures and make it more like Tysons IMO. Perhaps that's the plan.

Maybe we should call it the Retail District! Haha!

lol. Don't tempt them. ......

Maybe we should call it the Retail District! Haha!

Nah! Oklahoma City Shops!

gotta have "district" in the name. so "Oklahoma City Shopping District" it is!

The Belle Claspenn District.

The Belle Claspenn District.

The Belle Curve District

The Belle Curve District

meh.... as names go, that's pretty average. : )

The Belle Claspenn District.

The BelleClassPenn District, or the Bermuda Triangle of expendable income.

meh.... as names go, that's pretty average. : )

The Oak Isle District... for those who love the Oak Island treasure-hunting shows? Come on?

The Oak Isle District... for those who love the Oak Island treasure-hunting shows? Come on?

juuust in case it was funny in my head but nobody else's... i only worked 'average' into my post to play off your use of 'bell curve.' i didn't mean for that to be an actual critique of your post.

In addition to Urban Outfitters now being open, Ann Taylor is under construction, as is Paramount Jewelers. Image is open south of Paramount and Free People Movement is in progress south of that.

I didn't see one empty spot in the mall.

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juuust in case it was funny in my head but nobody else's... i only worked 'average' into my post to play off your use of 'bell curve.' i didn't mean for that to be an actual critique of your post.

Oh no, I totally caught it; I was just being funny back.

In addition to Urban Outfitters now being open, Ann Taylor is under construction, as is Paramount Jewelers. Image is open south of Paramount and Free People Movement is in progress south of that.

I didn't see one empty spot in the mall.

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My girlfriend will be excited about Free People. She already buys their clothing! Thanks Pete!!!

In addition to Urban Outfitters now being open, Ann Taylor is under construction, as is Paramount Jewelers. Image is open south of Paramount and Free People Movement is in progress south of that.

I didn't see one empty spot in the mall.

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My wife is going to be absolutely pumped about this.

From Saturday afternoon:

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I hope Macy's stays at Penn Square, it's always very easy to find a place to park over there!

From Saturday afternoon:

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Clearly dead.

I have found a little tiny piece of parking that's always available and right near a department store door. I rarely go to PSM much these days, but parking is always my big issue there.

I can relate to Yogi Berra when he said, "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."

From Saturday afternoon:

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Amazing it’s this crowded with such undersized sewer lines. How will they ever keep up???

They could use another parking garage on the back lot.

They could use another parking garage on the back lot.

i wonder if it would be feasible to add another story or two to the existing structure.

i wonder if it would be feasible to add another story or two to the existing structure.

Even if it were possible, the parking garage is probably over halfway through it's useful life, so may be more cost effective to build a new structure.

Even if it were possible, the parking garage is probably over halfway through it's useful life, so may be more cost effective to build a new structure.

it was just speculation... honestly, i don't see simon investing that kind of money on the property in the near future.

Im not sure I’ve ever seen that parking garage or the lot behind it anywhere remotely close to being completely full. Theres plenty of space back there.

it was just speculation... honestly, i don't see simon investing that kind of money on the property in the near future.

What a bummer if true. The mall has clearly been a cash cow for them for decades now and still has a bright future. OKC is not getting smaller and the mall is dead center in the retail shopping hub of the city.

I keep hoping the emergence of OAK will lead to greater investment in the mall. If Simon isn't willing to continue to invest in it, I wish they would just sell the property to a group that will.

It's promising at least that we are getting these new-to-market concepts.

Im not sure I’ve ever seen that parking garage or the lot behind it anywhere remotely close to being completely full. Theres plenty of space back there.

I've seen it full during the Christmas holidays, but not on a normal basis.

I've seen it full during the Christmas holidays, but not on a normal basis.

I’ve parked in it the week leading up to Christmas with plenty of empty spots around me (it’s where I always park when I do my last minute Christmas shopping lol). Guess it just depends on the day during the holidays.

Even if it were possible, the parking garage is probably over halfway through it's useful life, so may be more cost effective to build a new structure.

Just curious, considering the age of the much smaller (and not precast concrete) Pasteur Building garage at about 70 years, what is the useful life of a precast concrete parking structure?

Im not sure I’ve ever seen that parking garage or the lot behind it anywhere remotely close to being completely full. Theres plenty of space back there.

It's been nearly 20 years ago now so take this for what it's worth... but I used to work for the movie theater in the mall back when it was Dickinson, and around Christmas the garage and back lot were just as full as the front lot. That was unusual though, the garage normally was pretty empty. But I don't have any more recent experience.

It's been nearly 20 years ago now so take this for what it's worth... but I used to work for the movie theater in the mall back when it was Dickinson, and around Christmas the garage and back lot were just as full as the front lot. That was unusual though, the garage normally was pretty empty. But I don't have any more recent experience.
When JCPennys and AMC were busier the garage was. Alas, Pennies is in serious decline and AMC in PS is an afterthought. Just like why the Macy’s area of parking has more open spaces usually.

it was just speculation... honestly, i don't see simon investing that kind of money on the property in the near future.

Unfortunately this is my fear with both Penn & Woodland. Simon has a lot of assets like this that have very little to no debt and pretty much no local competition either. Just a small amount of investment in new flooring & lighting would make the Oklahoma assets feel completely new. In person retail is all about environment and experience and Simon is really behind the ball on these in markets like OKC but they don't feel they need to do anything and they're somewhat right. However, long term that can splinter out retail and eventually distress the asset. While neither Penn or Woodland have the higher per square foot sales (I believe they are both in the $600-700/square foot range) they are some of Simons most profitable. They have some malls that have well over $1,000/sq ft in sales but they usually have a high amount of debt on those assets too.

I do hope they eventually refresh the malls here sooner than later. Add some public art (think North Park but not that extreme) and things like that. Maybe an outdoor food court and some additional infill with a new parking structure.

I wonder if Scheel's is considering Penn Square after they finish and open their Woodland Hills store. That would be a great addition. They could do what they did at Woodland Hills and tear down the vacant department store. If Macys closes, it would be a perfect opportunity.

I think Sooner Mall would be a more viable option. i think the sears is still vacant

The Scheel's in The Colony in north Texas is free standing and awesome. The Half would be an awesome place for a stand alone Scheels, next to Andretti. Scheel's is very close to Andretti there in Colony. Wherever it may be if we do get one, OKC will be in for a huge treat.

I think Sooner Mall would be a more viable option. i think the sears is still vacant

That would be a huge shot in the arm for Norman which has been left out of a lot of the new retail expansion in the metro

That would be a huge shot in the arm for Norman which has been left out of a lot of the new retail expansion in the metro

University North Park generates the most visits of any retail development in the state and by a large margin.

University North Park generates the most visits of any retail development in the state and by a large margin.

Specifically talking about new-to-market stores

University North Park generates the most visits of any retail development in the state and by a large margin.

I think the numbers for University North Park/Town Center can be off the charts and it still be accurate to say that there’s not much new retail expansion going on in Norman.

Specifically talking about new-to-market stores

That is not a reasonable expectation.

Why on earth would stores come first to Norman over OKC?

We were in University North Park yesterday. This area is booming. Seems like every time we visit, there is a new store or restaurant under construction. Not too mention all the new housing. There is about to be another $1B pumped into this area once the new arena is approved.

That is not a reasonable expectation.

Why on earth would stores come first to Norman over OKC?

Because UNP generates the most visits of any retail development in the state by a large margin lol.

Because UNP generates the most visits of any retail development in the state by a large margin lol.
It isn’t necessarily just volume, but demographics matters too.

University North Park generates the most visits of any retail development in the state and by a large margin.

This isn't even a remotely fair comparison to say Penn Square. The developed retail section of UNP is 1 mile north to south currently and a bit over 3,000 feet wide east to west.

If you drew the same boundary 1 mile long from Penn & NW Expwy intersection along the retail corridor NE you'd be able to group in Penn Isle & Classen Curve and almost get up to the Whole Foods & Trader Joe's center. If you compiled all the visits to those centers it would blow UNP out of the water. You have to compare similar areas first for the stat to have any meaning.

UNP draws a lot for a Power Center and is certainly the top power center in the state in terms of visitors but it is not more highly trafficked than a similar sized area around Penn Square.

I wonder if Scheel's is considering Penn Square after they finish and open their Woodland Hills store. That would be a great addition. They could do what they did at Woodland Hills and tear down the vacant department store. If Macys closes, it would be a perfect opportunity.

Scheel's don't tend to locate/attach to malls - Woodland Hills in Tulsa was kind of a more unique location for what they typically build of these new mega stores. It would fit more likely in Chisholm Creek given Cabela's, TopGolf, etc. next door. Penn Square doesn't have the parcel size needed for a store the size of the one in Tulsa being built - that Sears parcel there just happened to be abnormally long/not super wide and they were able to get the footprint in there. Penn parcels would be a hard fit for them. Quail Springs would be more likely of a location too than Penn if they wanted a mall location to snag an empty anchor parcel. Just for reference the one in Tulsa being built is about 550' length wise and a bit over 300' width wise. So say the Macy's parcel if you took it out length wise 500+ feet you'd take out the service road and be nearly all the way to the creek.

This isn't even a remotely fair comparison to say Penn Square. The developed retail section of UNP is 1 mile north to south currently and a bit over 3,000 feet wide east to west.

I wasn't comparing the two, I was responding to a post that stated Norman had been left out of the retail expansion.

This isn't even a remotely fair comparison to say Penn Square. The developed retail section of UNP is 1 mile north to south currently and a bit over 3,000 feet wide east to west.

I wasn't comparing the two, I was responding to a post that stated Norman had been left out of the retail expansion -- which is why I quoted it in. my post.

That is not a reasonable expectation.

Why on earth would stores come first to Norman over OKC?

I'm not disagreeing with you, Pete, but do you have any information as to why World Market went to Norman and not OKC?

I'm not disagreeing with you, Pete, but do you have any information as to why World Market went to Norman and not OKC?

No idea. Home Goods also came to Norman first, so it does happen, but rarely and for the good reason that the OKC area has much more people from which to draw.

No idea. Home Goods also came to Norman first, so it does happen, but rarely and for the good reason that the OKC area has much more people from which to draw.

It still baffles me that World Market and HomeGoods have not opened stores in OKC. Both would be extremely popular.

It still baffles me that World Market and HomeGoods have not opened stores in OKC. Both would be extremely popular.

They prefer the suburbs -- was definitely the case in California as I lived in Thousand Oaks and we had both very early on.

It still baffles me that World Market and HomeGoods have not opened stores in OKC. Both would be extremely popular.

World Market expansion was slowed because of issues with Bed Bath & Beyond. Not sure if they will open many more locations or not now that it has a new ownership group.

I think one major factor that hurts OKC in the long run of landing new businesses compared to a place like Tulsa, Wichita, or other smaller metros is outside developers not understanding our population density.

Both Tulsa and Wichita,KS have essentially double the density compared to OKC. So if you are a new business, you can essentially build two or three stores and cover the market, or even if you build just one, you can pull in people from all directions.

UNP in Norman is a great retail corridor, but if you live north of I-40 or the Kilpatrick the chances of you driving all the way down to Norman often are slim. The same goes for the north side or the west side/Yukon corridors of shopping, retail, and dining. I live in far NWOKC, and its rare I make a casual retail/dining outing to the Outlet Shops or Moore/Norman area, if I do, it's a 45 minute trip one way.

I think that is what makes the Penn Square corridor so desirable, is that it is closer to the core of the city, and can pull in from all directions with reasonable drive given the highway access in all directions.

Has OKC landed better retail and dining in the last decade? Absolutely! But, I think the overall population density has hurt us from an outsider perspective, along with low costs of living. A developer's spreadsheet can be easily skewed when looking purely at numbers on where to build next.

It still baffles me that World Market and HomeGoods have not opened stores in OKC. Both would be extremely popular.

Further strangely enough there is a HomeGoods in Stillwater. Strange because it's the only HomeGoods store in Oklahoma not in a metro area. There's one in far south Tulsa.

Maybe HomeGoods is very fussy about its new locations being just right. Stillwater didn't get a Harbor Freight store about to open until Staples closed and became available for it. But for OKC with so many different places available, it shouldn't be too hard for HomeGoods to fine one suitable.

Further strangely enough there is a HomeGoods in Stillwater. Strange because it's the only HomeGoods store in Oklahoma not in a metro area. There's one in far south Tulsa.

Maybe HomeGoods is very fussy about its new locations being just right. Stillwater didn't get a Harbor Freight store about to open until Staples closed and became available for it. But for OKC with so many different places available, it shouldn't be too hard for HomeGoods to fine one suitable.

They are generally side by side with TJMaxx and other brands that group owns. I'm not sure why they've been so slow to open sites in Oklahoma. It might just be they're waiting on repositioning stores to be able to co-locate their brands together in the near future. HomeGoods isn't always next to the other brands but more often than not they try to do that. They've even experimented with doing combined stores with single checkout points.

It still baffles me that World Market and HomeGoods have not opened stores in OKC. Both would be extremely popular.

There are plans to open a Homegoods in far Northwest OKC at Portland and 178th in the Portland Power Center, along side a Ross, Five Below, and a handful of other strip mall stores.

Is Mr. Ooley's moving? Saw a building permit for them on Western near Nichols Hills.

Is Mr. Ooley's moving? Saw a building permit for them on Western near Nichols Hills.

Yes, they are moving to 6500 N. Western.

Used to be Gordon Stuart Jewelers.

I was trying to think how long Ooley's has been at Penn Square... Maybe always but it's been a bad fit for a long time.

Yes, they are moving to 6500 N. Western.

Used to be Gordon Stuart Jewelers.

I was trying to think how long Ooley's has been at Penn Square... Maybe always but it's been a bad fit for a long time.
Gordon Stewart’s was actually a high end women’s fashion store. Doubt they will have to do much to remodel and get in. Has dressing rooms, stock room, office, etc.

Did GS close or move?

Did GS close or move?
I believe they closed.

I was trying to think how long Ooley's has been at Penn Square... Maybe always but it's been a bad fit for a long time.

What makes you say it's a bad fit?