Maybe(hopefully) all these new higher end additions and renovations will motivate the owners to renovate the mall.

Maybe(hopefully) all these new higher end additions and renovations will motivate the owners to renovate the mall.
What kind of renovations?

What kind of renovations?
Do you expect me to list every material used, areas renovated, and provide you renderings? Come on man I’m talking about a renovation of the entire mall. Penn Square is a nice mall but it’s getting a bit dated. Come to LA and check out Westfield in Century City or look at the one in Canoga Park for an indoor version.

Bonus points if they can build more structured parking and add more retail and add a mixed use component like housing, hotel, or office to compete with OAK. Even more bonus points if they can build a diagonal skybridge the NWE and Penn intersection.

Do you expect me to list every material used, areas renovated, and provide you renderings? Come on man I’m talking about a renovation of the entire mall. Penn Square is a nice mall but it’s getting a bit dated. Come to LA and check out Westfield in Century City or look at the one in Canoga Park for an indoor version.

Bonus points if they can build more structured parking and add more retail and add a mixed use component like housing, hotel, or office to compete with OAK. Even more bonus points if they can build a diagonal skybridge the NWE and Penn intersection.

Yeah ever since I began going down the path of commercial real estate/development and began learning about OAK, 50 Penn, Classen Curve, and the like, pretty much the first thing my mind went to in regards to redevelopment was PSM. Those parking lots surrounding the mall, particularly that SW corner bordering Penn/NWX, are some of the most valuable pieces of land in the city if they'd do something with them.

Love the mall, have so many good memories there, but there is nothing wrong in wishing and dreaming for greater heights.

Do you expect me to list every material used, areas renovated, and provide you renderings? Come on man I’m talking about a renovation of the entire mall. Penn Square is a nice mall but it’s getting a bit dated. Come to LA and check out Westfield in Century City or look at the one in Canoga Park for an indoor version.

Bonus points if they can build more structured parking and add more retail and add a mixed use component like housing, hotel, or office to compete with OAK. Even more bonus points if they can build a diagonal skybridge the NWE and Penn intersection.

Don't be ridiculous and so sensitive. Rennovations can mean many different things.

But,. you answered. It sounds more like you want additions on the premises an not necessarily renovation of the mall itself, is that right? Or do you think it starts with re-doing the common area décor? Are you advocating re-facing the outside surfaces?

Selling or leasing sites from the lots for hotels, offices etc. is a whole different issue. I would have to bring in a lot more money to the owners than the cost of building and maintaining structured parking. I don't believe they are in the hotel, apartment business, so I would imagine long term land leases would be the best possibility. Do you know if there is enough demand in the area for that?

Renovations needed or not, I've been to PSM recently a few times for some walking not out in the heat, and I am quite impressed how busy it is these days. Just packed with people.

Edit: that said, I think they could do an absolute home run with structured parking built on some of their lots and apartments on a few more of them. Maybe once OAK is up and running the mall might see some possibilities with the land they have to work with.

That mall stays very busy.

I live nearby and go by it quite often, and there are always tons of cars out front.

Don't be ridiculous and so sensitive. Rennovations can mean many different things.

But,. you answered. It sounds more like you want additions on the premises an not necessarily renovation of the mall itself, is that right? Or do you think it starts with re-doing the common area décor? Are you advocating re-facing the outside surfaces?

Selling or leasing sites from the lots for hotels, offices etc. is a whole different issue. I would have to bring in a lot more money to the owners than the cost of building and maintaining structured parking. I don't believe they are in the hotel, apartment business, so I would imagine long term land leases would be the best possibility. Do you know if there is enough demand in the area for that?
Sorry I didn’t mean to come off with a harsh tone. What I mean is I just want to see more investments into the common areas of the mall. There’s some very nice stores coming in and they will only make the mall look more dated in contrast.

I would like a complete renovation(outside cladding included) and expansion with but that would likely be north of a quarter billion and I’m trying to be somewhat realistic lol. If I’m in Simcity builder mode the parking lots fronting NWE and the ones along that creek(the Deep Fork?) are prime candidates for development. It’d be nice to see a Bloomingdale’s or Nieman Marcus included in an addition. Believe it or not but IMO the Dillards at PS competes with those stores as far as furnishings go minus the high end designer names. Sometimes I don’t think we give Dillards enough credit for how nice they made that store in PS.

Does anyone know if Simon Malls has done any Mall to Mall + Housing/Lifestyle Center conversions like what Panda is talking about?

That mall stays very busy.

I live nearby and go by it quite often, and there are always tons of cars out front.
Pete, is that Korean hotdog place still on track? I’ll certainly add to traffic counts in the mall if it ever opens.

Pete, is that Korean hotdog place still on track? I’ll certainly add to traffic counts in the mall if it ever opens.

The space is still boarded up and the mall website says "coming soon".

Does anyone know if Simon Malls has done any Mall to Mall + Housing/Lifestyle Center conversions like what Panda is talking about?

No specific example but many mall owners, Im sure Simon included, have added housing to mall parking lots to utilize unused space and reinvigorate the mall. Just like Quail adding Lifetime Fitness, they also have room to add housing if they wanted. Not so sure about examples of overhauling enclosed malls to lifestyle malls but probably is happening at some underperforming malls.

Sorry I didn’t mean to come off with a harsh tone. What I mean is I just want to see more investments into the common areas of the mall. There’s some very nice stores coming in and they will only make the mall look more dated in contrast.

I would like a complete renovation(outside cladding included) and expansion with but that would likely be north of a quarter billion and I’m trying to be somewhat realistic lol. If I’m in Simcity builder mode the parking lots fronting NWE and the ones along that creek(the Deep Fork?) are prime candidates for development. It’d be nice to see a Bloomingdale’s or Nieman Marcus included in an addition. Believe it or not but IMO the Dillards at PS competes with those stores as far as furnishings go minus the high end designer names. Sometimes I don’t think we give Dillards enough credit for how nice they made that store in PS.

Surrounding the mall with parking garages at the street would make it look more like North Park in Dallas, which is pretty ugly from most angles (imho).... all you see are ugly parking garages. In that case, re-facing the exterior would likely be unnecessary except at the few main entrances. I personally think North Park as a mall is very uninviting from the outside but does have office buildings and parking garages surrounding it.

No specific example but many mall owners, Im sure Simon included, have added housing to mall parking lots to utilize unused space and reinvigorate the mall. Just like Quail adding Lifetime Fitness, they also have room to add housing if they wanted. Not so sure about examples of overhauling enclosed malls to lifestyle malls but probably is happening at some underperforming malls.

I doubt Lifetime adds any traffic to QS. It has it's own parking and was done after tearing out part of the mall in the first place. There is no inviting path from one to the other. It didn't reinvigorate the mall, just added density to the parking area.

Surrounding the mall with parking garages at the street would make it look more like North Park in Dallas, which is pretty ugly from most angles (imho).... all you see are ugly parking garages. In that case, re-facing the exterior would likely be unnecessary except at the few main entrances. I personally think North Park as a mall is very uninviting from the outside but does have office buildings and parking garages surrounding it.

Do you mean the Galleria? North Park isn’t really surrounded by parking garages but the Galleria is.

Do you mean the Galleria? North Park isn’t really surrounded by parking garages but the Galleria is.

You are correct..I misspoke. Galleria.

Does anyone here really want anything else in the parking lot of Penn Square causing even more congestion? The place is ridiculous as it is with their tiny parking spaces. If you add residential, I mean which view is better, the cars on NW Xway or the creek behind the mall? To me, i think i'd rather be in the back so its quieter and i have the whole mall to block noise. But that's where the driving space is the least accessible because there's less room. I certainly wouldn't want an apartment that my view ends up being Macy's.

Look at a lot for a Mills mall, say Grapevine, you have PLENTY of room to do this stuff. Crossroads even. But Penn, nope. It was a small lot to begin with and they kept cutting parts out for the bank/Cheesecake/Container/Whiskey/etc. Drives me personally batty. Partly because of this, i do everything possible to never visit PSM for anything. I'd rather sweat/freeze my you know what off at the Outlet mall than deal with the parking lot at Penn.

I doubt Lifetime adds any traffic to QS. It has it's own parking and was done after tearing out part of the mall in the first place. There is no inviting path from one to the other. It didn't reinvigorate the mall, just added density to the parking area.

The inviting part is subjective, but there absolutely is a path between QS and Lifetime. See: https://goo.gl/maps/shfKJvfKb1Y2qFHBA

The inviting part is subjective, but there absolutely is a path between QS and Lifetime. See: https://goo.gl/maps/shfKJvfKb1Y2qFHBA

Yes it is technically a path there .... maybe even without dodging cars. But I seriously doubt anyone thinks this ties the two together and that there is traffic from one to the other....either way.

Yes it is technically a path there .... maybe even without dodging cars. But I seriously doubt anyone thinks this ties the two together and that there is traffic from one to the other....either way.

Maybe, but I seriously doubt the crossover traffic is zero. It is a benefit for the mall for Lifetime to be there. No real reason it isnt.

Maybe, but I seriously doubt the crossover traffic is zero. It is a benefit for the mall for Lifetime to be there. No real reason it isnt.

Yeah, when we were Life Time members we went to the mall more often. Not daily or anything, but when you are right there 3 or 4 days a week you think up reasons to go over there.

A LifeTime @ Penn would kill it. I’d love that.

A LifeTime @ Penn would kill it. I’d love that.

Almost 0% chance of that happening.

Korean street food vendor opens in Penn Square (https://www.okctalk.com/content.php?r=843-Korean-street-food-vendor-opens-in-Penn-Square)

Korean street food vendor Oh!K-dog has opened in Penn Square Mall


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ohkdog093022d.jpg


They serve a variety of Korean rice hotdogs, egg toast, mochi donuts, and fruit drinks.

Sbarro has also opened in the mall as has Spunkies Soul Food.




HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ohkdog093022a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ohkdog093022b.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ohkdog093022c.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ohkdog093022e.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sbarro093022a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spunkies093022a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/spunkies093022b.jpg

nice offerings,

have to wonder if spunkies will survive, prices seem a bit stiff for soul food. ...

nice offerings,

have to wonder if spunkies will survive, prices seem a bit stiff for soul food. ...

My wife and I commented on the same thing, No entrees or baskets below $10.50 is steep for walk up mall food court

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

If anything, I would expect to overpay for food at the mall, so yeah high food prices at the mall shouldn't be a surprise. But high prices of restaurants, specifically, are sometimes vital to the discussion when deciding whether to try a new place, for instance. General complaining, not so much.

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

all of this ..

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

Within a few months the market will be the final arbiter
on pricing and value.

Tried Oh K Dog for lunch today. Absolutely fantastic. Absolutely recommend. They aren't too heavy on the stomach either, I always worry about that with heavily fried foods. Definitely going back this week to try a few of the other types of corn dogs.

Within a few months the market will be the final arbiter
on pricing and value.

I agree 100% You also have to look at the market. I would argue that a minimum $10.50 meal for 4 meatballs and fries in a mall food court isn't the right market when I can get a meatball sub with chips and a drink for $8.75 or $5 without chips and drink at Subway next door. It also has four meatballs.

I feel like complaining about prices is more than a little over done on this entire forum. The fact of the matter is food prices have gone up significantly. Rent has gone up, utilities have gone up, dry goods, cleaning materials you name it everything has gone up. You either need to readjust your expectations or just accept the fact that you can not afford to go out as often as you once could. At this point you can barely get a meal from a drive through for less than $10. This is a locally owned family business that have operated a successful food truck for years. The price point and portions are very fair.

Fare prices but not a good location for it. The food truck is better because people can take their food and go home. Its destination type of food where they have their fans. Being inside the mall makes it that much harder for their fan base to reach them.

Fare prices but not a good location for it. The food truck is better because people can take their food and go home. Its destination type of food where they have their fans. Being inside the mall makes it that much harder for their fan base to reach them.

The term "destination type of food" in regards to a food truck is a bit ridiculous. Nobody is traveling 10 hours to go to a food truck. You walk around at an event, realize you are hungry, and make an impulse decision on which truck to go to. It is almost the exact same scenario that you will find in a mall food court.

The term "destination type of food" in regards to a food truck is a bit ridiculous. Nobody is traveling 10 hours to go to a food truck. You walk around at an event, realize you are hungry, and make an impulse decision on which truck to go to. It is almost the exact same scenario that you will find in a mall food court.

Food trucks park on their own, by themselves, quite a bit of the time, they're not always grouped together at events. There are hundreds of food trucks all by themselves in disparate locations all over the city every day, and yes, lots of folks do keep track of them and drive to specific food trucks.

Fare prices but not a good location for it. The food truck is better because people can take their food and go home. Its destination type of food where they have their fans. Being inside the mall makes it that much harder for their fan base to reach them.

Unless they are at the perimeter of the mall, or on the pads, food places at a food court aren't intended to be "destination" restaurants. They are there to keep people who are already there shopping in the mall instead of leaving to go find something when they are hungry. It is walk-by impulse eating with the more appealing ones catching most of the passer's by.

Very few food trucks are actually destination eating themselves. A few have loyal followers but even then generally most don't drive far out of their way for them. Food truck EVENTs or gatherings can be an entertainment draw when promoted. Otherwise, most good trucks are tasty conveniences.

Destination was probably not the proper term to use. Spunkies hung out around the same spots in Edmond and depended word of month and low overhead. Either way I have my doubts that Spunkies can survive a year at Penn with a physical location they have to pay rent on and significantly larger staff at those prices compared to everything else in that food court. Not the food industry prices as a whole.

Food trucks park on their own, by themselves, quite a bit of the time, they're not always grouped together at events. There are hundreds of food trucks all by themselves in disparate locations all over the city every day, and yes, lots of folks do keep track of them and drive to specific food trucks.
Yeah people would drive for hours to visit a Cousins Maine lobster truck.

Food trucks park on their own, by themselves, quite a bit of the time, they're not always grouped together at events. There are hundreds of food trucks all by themselves in disparate locations all over the city every day, and yes, lots of folks do keep track of them and drive to specific food trucks.

Just because people keep track of their favorite food trucks does not make them destination dining spots. I may just be a pedantic bastard, but when I hear destination and restaurant I expect it to be noteworthy for something. To me destination spots in the city are going to be places like Nonesuch, Vast, Cattlemen's, and Ma Der Lao. Nonesuch is a genuinely innovative restaurant in OKC and it has gained national recognition for the food and service. Vast is an incredible space with picturesque views and from my experience has been an exception to the rule that restaurants on top of buildings being fairly mediocre. Cattlemen's is far from the best steakhouse in the city but the history and atmosphere make it a must stop for many visiting the city. Mad Der Lao like Nonesuch being a restaurant that has rightfully earned national acclaim. To be honest I feel like our disagreement is more a matter of semantics than anything.

Just because people keep track of their favorite food trucks does not make them destination dining spots. I may just be a pedantic bastard, but when I hear destination and restaurant I expect it to be noteworthy for something. To me destination spots in the city are going to be places like Nonesuch, Vast, Cattlemen's, and Ma Der Lao. Nonesuch is a genuinely innovative restaurant in OKC and it has gained national recognition for the food and service. Vast is an incredible space with picturesque views and from my experience has been an exception to the rule that restaurants on top of buildings being fairly mediocre. Cattlemen's is far from the best steakhouse in the city but the history and atmosphere make it a must stop for many visiting the city. Mad Der Lao like Nonesuch being a restaurant that has rightfully earned national acclaim. To be honest I feel like our disagreement is more a matter of semantics than anything.

Yep, agreed, you'll notice I never once mentioned "destination" in my post. :) I was just clearing up a possible misconception about food truck fandom...

Looks like additional permits have been filed for Urban Outfitted and that they will be taking over the old Microsoft store on the first floor

^

Yes, that space is now occupied by Waikiki (2nd photo). Urban Outfitters will also be taking part of the Altar'd State space to the east. Altar'd State is moving to a bigger location in the mall.

The OKC store will be 9,100 SF while the location in Tulsa is about 6,500 SF.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uo111622a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/uo111622b.jpg

Cotton:On is taking the 7,940 vacant space on the lower level next to the Lego Store.

https://cottonon.com/US/

Also, Trendsetters is moving from near JC Penney to the old BC Clark space.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cottonon112122a.jpg


HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cottonon112122b.jpg

Wow, we're getting a Cotton On!? Zara next?? Lol

Wow, we're getting a Cotton On!? Zara next?? Lol
From your lips to Amancio Ortega's ears. I'd maim for a local Zara. Excellent perfume dupes.

From your lips to Amancio Ortega's ears. I'd maim for a local Zara. Excellent perfume dupes.

Yes lord

Is that satire? There is a Zara around the corner from me. A little over a month ago I went in for the first time and I didn’t know what the hell was going on. I was so confused what to look for. Someone please help me out here what am I missing about this place… Zara.

Is that satire? There is a Zara around the corner from me. A little over a month ago I went in for the first time and I didn’t know what the hell was going on. I was so confused what to look for. Someone please help me out here what am I missing about this place… Zara.
Not satire, I own many of their blazers for work. "Call My Agent" on Netflix, their costume people also have used Zara pieces. Zara handbags also good purchases, well constructed for the price point.
https://pagesix.com/2022/10/11/kate-middleton-wears-40-zara-blazer-with-prince-william/

Is that satire? There is a Zara around the corner from me. A little over a month ago I went in for the first time and I didn’t know what the hell was going on. I was so confused what to look for. Someone please help me out here what am I missing about this place… Zara.
Zara has affordable stylish clothing that is well constructed. It is a worldwide success. It is mostly European styling and sizing (not “generously” sized), so audience is generally younger, trimmer and more stylish.

With these recent announcements, it seems like all of the large storefronts will now be filled, leaving only 2 or 3 smaller storefronts empty. Appears to be excellent momentum for Penn Square ahead of the completion of the Oak Development. I imagine the Oak Development will only bring more attention from national retailers to Penn Square.

With these recent announcements, it seems like all of the large storefronts will now be filled, leaving only 2 or 3 smaller storefronts empty. Appears to be excellent momentum for Penn Square ahead of the completion of the Oak Development. I imagine the Oak Development will only bring more attention from national retailers to Penn Square.

Yes, it's a healthy competition which is good for OKC.

Also, Classen Curve is almost completely full and has brought in a bunch of new-to-market retailers in just the last few years.

And Chisholm Creek is working with lots of retailers as well.

I know that something the level of Domain is a pipe dream, but I hope one of these new developments can get some truly luxury stores. I think OKC could handle a few luxury stores. I love what PSM and Classen Curve bring to the table, and what OAK will bring in the future. I just think that OKC (and all of Oklahoma) is lacking a truly upscale shopping experience, and I think we can afford it (ideally near NH or near Quail Springs).

There is much more to come at OAK. We should see some more announcements before the end of the year.

Also, Classen Curve is almost completely full and has brought in a bunch of new-to-market retailers in just the last few years.


Do you know if Classen Curve has any plans for further expansion or have they built all they can build? They seem to be pretty landlocked with no space for more buildings.

Do you know if Classen Curve has any plans for further expansion or have they built all they can build? They seem to be pretty landlocked with no space for more buildings.

There are a couple of parcels along NW 63rd.

Also, there are a couple of gaps in the main shopping area where there are fountains. I've seen plans to remove those and replace with more shopping space.

The only real vacancy they have is the old Cafe 501 but I know they have been actively working deals with restaurants that would be new to market.

I'd do anything for Williams Sonoma to come back to PSM or even OAK

I also miss that store. Hope they bring it back at either Penn Square or another location. it might do better closer to memorial rd area or Norman.

Great inexpensive cologne dups!

Things Remembered is closing down all their stores (again)

Things Remembered is closing down all their stores (again)

A lot people selling personalized gifts on Etsy.