Fair enough. Regardless, the quality of products contained at a Nordstrom, Saks or Bloomingdales is much different than that at JcPenney.

Agree completely. There's no comparison.

There are (or were) Tier 5 Dillards as well. I've shopped at one in Scottsdale in the past.

Yeah, I completely agree with your tier system. If it wasn't for Lands End holding them up, Sears would be nothing more than an over-priced Target or Wal-Mart. Their clothes are about on the same level. And JC Penney and Kohls are pretty fairly even. They cater more to the working class, lower to mid middle class.

And Macy's stores do vary depending on the store. The Oklahoma stores are more tier 3, but stores in New york City, LA, etc. obviously fall into Tier 5.

Sears is successful with its dry goods. Hardware, washers & dryers, lawnmowers, etc. I agree their clothes aren't top-notch. But they have some great stuff...Sears exclusive brands that have great respect in their respective lines....

Craftsman
Kenmore
DieHard
Coldspot

I don't think Kenmore is as well respected as it used to be. But, yeah, I will admit that Craftsman tools are still pretty top-notch.

I don't think Kenmore is as well respected as it used to be. But, yeah, I will admit that Craftsman tools are still pretty top-notch.

Kenmore is, and has always been, one of the best selling appliance's, Kenmore products are made by Whirlpool.

Just for the record, my comment about going UPward was in addition to the OUTward expansion. I can obviously read a map...but you can't add that much small retail with the Outward model the way that diagram has it.

So if there's this much of a question about Penn needing/wanting stores like this, is there maybe a better location? Seems like we're a stones throw away from being a Galleria at that point.

Well we DID have the spot for that all picked out and planed but didn't happen, now you will have to talk to Devon if you want to build it there. LOL There is always CrossRoads!

No, the infrastructure will not support a 3rd level. Look at the picture I attacked. Plans are to expand the mall outward. And the parking problem at Penn Square is the same as the parking problem in Bricktown: it's all perception. There's plenty of parking at the mall. I always go straight ot the garage in the back, and I never have a problem. The folks having problems are those trying to get a close parking space in the front of the mall.

Nordstrom doesn't even compare to what's currently offered at Penn Square or any other center in the city. The clothes at Nordstrom are far superior in quality, materials, workmanship, etc. than clothes sold at Dillards. And, you can't even compare a Nordstrom to a JC Peney or Kohls, much less a Dillards. They're in completely different leagues. JC Penney and Kohls sell cheap, low to mid level clothing. They're only a step above Wal-Mart/Target.

How dare you compare JC Penney to Target and Wal Mart! That's a slap in the face of Target and Wal Mart. I think people are more embarassed to say they purchased something from Penneys than from Target - they are not the Penney's they were in the 70s.

How dare you compare JC Penney to Target and Wal Mart! That's a slap in the face of Target and Wal Mart. I think people are more embarassed to say they purchased something from Penneys than from Target - they are not the Penney's they were in the 70s.


I've always found Target's clothes overpriced and of much lower quality than those of Kohl's/JCPenney. . .

Agreed.

How dare you compare JC Penney to Target and Wal Mart! That's a slap in the face of Target and Wal Mart. I think people are more embarassed to say they purchased something from Penneys than from Target - they are not the Penney's they were in the 70s.

Let's see: JC Penney carries quality name brands like Dockers, Van Heusen, Izod, Clairborne, and fairly decent store brands like St. John's Bay and Stafford. I think all of those are better quality than Wal-Mart's best brand, George, which doesn't begin to compare, and then there's their cheaper brands like Puritan and Faded Glory which are complete garbage. And Target's clothes aren't that much better than Wal-Mart. I agree that JC Penney isn't the same store it was back in the day, but the quality of their clothes, while nowhere near Brooks Brothers, Jos A. Bank, Ralph Lauren, Boss, Nautica, Calvin Klein, Kenneth Cole, etc., is far better than clothes at Target and Wal-Mart.

More embarassed to say they purchased something from Penney's than Target? Really? If embarassment is an issue, I'd be more embarassed to tell someone I was wearing a pair of Merona pants than a pair of Dockers.

I don't buy many clothes (why deprive kiddos and the lovely of easy peasy gift giving?) But I was very happy the first time I received a St. John's Bay polo from JCP, and happier that they actually carry sizes that fit folk like me, and that they do so in more than white and black. Not everyone does.

I'm a physician, so I have to wear dress clothes on a daily basis, so I put a lot of wear and tear on clothing. I've actually been pretty impressed with Stafford Super Shirts over the years, especially for the price. I don't think they're as good as my Brooks Brothers or Polo Ralph Lauren shirts, but they're above average. Definitely better than anything Target or Wal-Mart sells. And St. John's Bay isn't too bad.

I'm a physician, so I have to wear dress clothes on a daily basis, so I put a lot of wear and tear on clothing. I've actually been pretty impressed with Stafford Super Shirts over the years, especially for the price. I don't think they're as good as my Brooks Brothers or Polo Ralph Lauren shirts, but they're above average. Definitely better than anything Target or Wal-Mart sells. And St. John's Bay isn't too bad.
Ever read Millionaire Next door, millionaire mind or any of Dr.Thomas J. Stanleys or Dave Ramseys books? This very reason is why on average plumbers and auctioneers have higher net worth on average over doctors. Plumbers and auctioneers make good money, but no one expects them to buy expensive clothes, homes, cars, etc, but they do for doctors and lawyers.

True and plumbers, auctioneers etc don't have the multi-years of expensive college education to pay for either.

Fossil's Founder, Tom Kartsotis and his older brother Kosta who is Fossil's current CEO, grew up in Bethany. Kosta attended OSU, I believe. Tom and his parents moved to Texas when Tom was about 15 or 16. Their father worked at the Volkswagon dealership on N.W. 39th Expressway. Tom attended Western Oaks Elementary and Junior High. Fossil is now worth about a billion and a half dollars. Tom owns between 300-400 million in stock and Kosta owns nearly 700 million. Not bad for a couple of former local boys that did not go to Cassidy. LOL

Bigray in Ok

Ever read Millionaire Next door, millionaire mind or any of Dr.Thomas J. Stanleys or Dave Ramseys books? This very reason is why on average plumbers and auctioneers have higher net worth on average over doctors. Plumbers and auctioneers make good money, but no one expects them to buy expensive clothes, homes, cars, etc, but they do for doctors and lawyers.

Median income for auctioneer in 2009: $55,000

Median income for plumber in 2009: $40,089

Median income for defense attorney: $130,000

Median income for hospitalist in 2009: $178,192

Median income for ER physician: $250,000

Median income for Neuro-surgeon: $470,410

Median income for cardiothroacic surgeon: $401,325

Median income for plastic surgeon: $320,932

Do you make anything close to the 300-400k Patrick?

If I remember correctly I think the Millionaire Next Door talks more about the plumber that started a small plumbing company and has a small crew of employees rather than the regular ol plumber that the guy employs

...This very reason is why on average plumbers and auctioneers have higher net worth on average over doctors.

Dave Ramsey also says you can feed your whole family for $5 at Little Caesar's and they won't get scurvy, which I also do not believe.

If I remember correctly I think the Millionaire Next Door talks more about the plumber that started a small plumbing company and has a small crew of employees rather than the regular ol plumber that the guy employs

Yeah, that's a little different than the sole proprietor plumber.

Do you make anything close to the 300-400k Patrick?



Not that it really matters what my income is, but I'm currently in my last year of residency...residents make around $50K a year. And I make around 75K at my moonlighting job. So, no, as a resident I don't currently make that amount. But, I'm in my final year of residency, so I'll soon be in that income bracket next year. Average salary for docs is around $200K-300K a year. Sounds like a lot. But, not really, considering I've been in training for 14 years post-high school, and have over $250K in student loans.

Not that it really matters what my income is, but I'm currently in my last year of residency...residents make around $50K a year. And I make around 75K at my moonlighting job. So, no, as a resident I don't currently make that amount. But, I'm in my final year of residency, so I'll soon be in that income bracket next year. Average salary for docs is around $200K-300K a year. Sounds like a lot. But, not really, considering I've been in training for 14 years post-high school, and have over $250K in student loans.

Not to mention once you go into private practice, the insurance premiums (yikes!). I also agree you shouldn't feel like you have to answer income questions from fellow posters.

Yeah, that's a little different than the sole proprietor plumber.

Anyone that owns their own business and has a steady amount of work will be making more than someone working for a company. Though you (usually) need to start by working for a company and then start your own business, and hope you have clients from your previous business, good contacts and future prospects on the horizon. I know people who have their own business, especially those in the building trades like plumbing and carpentry, that either do really well (over 100K a year) or are barely making it with how volatile the industry can be..

$1,000,000 building permit to renovate 33,346 square feet of 2-story space at Penn Square.

Has to be one of the department stores or perhaps the theater?

The gym formerly known as Aspen is closing up shop. I believe Friday the 11th was their last day in business.

The gym formerly known as Aspen is closing up shop. I believe Friday the 11th was their last day in business.

Really? I guess that shows how much I go to the gym. That will leave a pretty big void of gyms in the nw area.
I'm interested to know the retailer replacing it

Really? I guess that shows how much I go to the gym. That will leave a pretty big void of gyms in the nw area.
I'm interested to know the retailer replacing it

Gold's Gym is at NW Expy and Lake Hef Pkwy.

Does anyone know what will move in to where Aspen was ???

Gold's Gym is at NW Expy and Lake Hef Pkwy.

There's also a Planet Fitness location in the shopping center on the South side of NW Expressway at 63rd and the All American location on NW Expressway.

Gold's Gym is at NW Expy and Lake Hef Pkwy.

Forgot about that opening up. I'm just worried of what I'll have to pay. I joined Aspen several years back and had a really cheap monthly payment, that probably won't happen at golds.

Glad the gym is going or gone. Going into Pottery Barn Kids, below the gym, was kind of like experiencing a reverse earthquake.

Forgot about that opening up. I'm just worried of what I'll have to pay. I joined Aspen several years back and had a really cheap monthly payment, that probably won't happen at golds. They advertise $9.99 bi-weekly. The ads also say that this offer ends in 10 days but they've said that for months. We had a long term agreement with Aspen that transferred to Golds so I haven't paid much attention to what Golds actually charges new memberships.

Do you mean bi-monthly? Why would anyone on earth pay bi-weekly?

Do you mean bi-monthly? Why would anyone on earth pay bi-weekly?

Possibly because many people get paid bi-weekly?

Bi-weekly. Or the equivalent of approx. $20 per month.

Wouldn't that be bi-monthly......bi(twice) monthly

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/biweekly&sa=X&ei=B0vETqr3JcmDsAKyhtSsCw&ved=0CC0Qkg4oAA&usg=AFQjCNGAsf83q5zRlulDK40l8ss4eDzicA

Wouldn't that be bi-monthly......bi(twice) monthly

You're thinking semi-monthly.

According to the definition at the above link it could be both.

Bi-Weekly is every two weeks.

Bi-Monthly is every two months.

Case closed.

So, what is going into the space after that gym goes bye-bye? I never knew of a gym being there...then again, a gym has no place inside a shopping mall. Its been since last Christmas since I've been in that mall. I'll most likely be back shopping in a few weeks.

I don't buy this at all. First off, wha are you trying to imply by current teens being raised by children in adult bodies? What about the current "teen-parent" generation would suggest they are children in adult bodies en masse? I'm not saying there aren't really horrible parents, but surely not most of them.

I also think you're using selective viewing. You allege that teenagers are becoming worse and acting out more and wearing a criminal record like a badge of pride. However, those teenagers are the only ones you are seeing and hearing about. You are comparing these bad kids with your childhood and declaring everyone everyone under 21 (or whatever) a delinquent. I'm willing to bet, though, that you were a good kid who hung out with good kids and generally stayed away and ignored the bad kids. There are punks in your day, sure, but you didn't mess with them or their lifestyle so they seemed much less numerous. All you saw, for the most part, were the good kids.

You don't care about the good kids nowadays. You don' notice them. You have no interest in them and they don't do anything to draw your attention. The bad kids, though... You care about them. You hear news stories about them doing bad things. You see trends and fads that appear distasteful to you and draw erroneous conclusions on everyone who wears them. Then you really pay attention to the few that actively cause trouble in your presence. They swear or fight or just do horrible things. They are truly in the minority, but you only pay attention to them so they feel much more prevalent than they really are.

Anyway, just a thought.

Right on ! We all hear the sruff about the bad kids. But iam here to tell you I have 4 teenage g-kids that are good kids, one is MDOT hes on here alot. For every bad kid you see or hear about there is 1000 good kids u dont.

p.s. We dont let our kids hang out at the mall.

Just an update on changes coming to Penn Square. Mall management did not renew the lease with Pottery Barn Kids, so they will be leaving at the end of their lease. This was the mall's decision, not Pottery Barn Kis. PBK simply got passed over for another store that put up more money for the space. I believe the old Aspen Athletic Club will also be leaving. Forever 21 has put up big bucks to put one of their flagship XXI Forever stores in the space, and it will likely be a 2 level flagship store, taking up the space of PBK and the space above it where the athletic club is located, but not connected to the mall walkway.

Mall management is also still considering expansion options for the north parking lot.

It sounds like they're trading one respectable tenant for another, although a bigger one. Perhaps they could move PBK into one of the countless spaces taken up by bad tenants, which there are way too many of in Penn Square--especially for a mall that wants to brand itself as the "upscale" retail destination in OKC.

About time we get a Forever 21, hopefully being this large of space they'll carry their men's line.

About time we get a Forever 21, hopefully being this large of space they'll carry their men's line.

Isn't there already one in Quail Springs Mall, and another in Norman?

Don't know about the one in Norman, but the one in Quail Springs is a smaller store that does not carry their men's line.

Just an update on changes coming to Penn Square. Mall management did not renew the lease with Pottery Barn Kids, so they will be leaving at the end of their lease. This was the mall's decision, not Pottery Barn Kis. PBK simply got passed over for another store that put up more money for the space. I believe the old Aspen Athletic Club will also be leaving. Forever 21 has put up big bucks to put one of their flagship XXI Forever stores in the space, and it will likely be a 2 level flagship store, taking up the space of PBK and the space above it where the athletic club is located, but not connected to the mall walkway.

Mall management is also still considering expansion options for the north parking lot.

Man it really seems that Penn Square is always on a roll.

Yeah, Quail Springs has one but it's one of their regular Forever 21 stores, and not one of their flagship XXI Forever stores. The XXI Forever stores carry the men's line and generally take up about twice the space as one of their regular stores. I know the one at the Kansas City Plaza is 2 levels, and it's maybe about the size of a smaller 2 level department store. That space where PBK and Aspen Athletic Club are used to be the Rothschilds Department store, which was a smaller local department store that took up both floors on that corner, before Dillards bought them uot and took over the space. So, I can see where a XXI Forever store would be a great fit for the space, to serve as a smaller anchor, if you will.

Man it really seems that Penn Square is always on a roll.

Huh?

Huh?

By "on a roll," I think they mean Penn Square is doing really well. I've heard, and I believe Patrick has said, that Penn Square has a mega-long waiting list. It really is one of the nicest old-style malls around. I love remembering the old outdoor Penn Square which many people have said if it was built today, it would be considered really cool. If you think about it - and remember it - it really would be. The outdoor square with all the flowers, trees, the center plaza and all. It's changed so much it's hard to believe it's the same place.

If you walk into Penn Square, it's a dump, with a few nice stores scattered here and there. I used to think it was nice until the last time I went there, when it finally begin to sink into me that it's definitely on the decline. Quail went first, but now that's finally caught up with Penn.

I'm really curious what you're talking about, I never realized that there was an outdoor square. Sounds Utica-esque.

If you walk into Penn Square, it's a dump, with a few nice stores scattered here and there. I used to think it was nice until the last time I went there, when it finally begin to sink into me that it's definitely on the decline. Quail went first, but now that's finally caught up with Penn.

I'm really curious what you're talking about, I never realized that there was an outdoor square. Sounds Utica-esque.

Oh yes...it was open-air. Here's a picture of part of it...

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1377/pennsquare001.jpg

As far as your saying it's a dump, I admit to not having been in the mall for awhile so things have obviously changed.

Wow, cool! I never knew.

Wow, cool! I never knew.

This was their logo and sign at NWX and Penn. The sign was still used up until the early eighties.

http://img534.imageshack.us/img534/2888/pennsquaresign.jpg

They first made a lot of changes and enclosed the mall and then a few years later added a second level.

If you walk into Penn Square, it's a dump, with a few nice stores scattered here and there. I used to think it was nice until the last time I went there, when it finally begin to sink into me that it's definitely on the decline. Quail went first, but now that's finally caught up with Penn.

I'm really curious what you're talking about, I never realized that there was an outdoor square. Sounds Utica-esque.

I don't know how you can say it's on the decline when it's 100% leased and has a waiting list of over 65 major national retailers and 50 local upscale retailers, with Nordstrom and Saks both interested in occupying anchor space if a new northwest wing is indeed built. The problem is that these retailers want a certain sized space, so they sometimes have to wait for other leases to open up so they can get the space they want. That's been the case with Forever 21. Yeah, there are about 3 or 4 short term leases, but that's the case in any mall across the country. They keep the space filled with short term leases until they find a long term tenant. And some of the spaces, like the old Rockport, for example, and the space occupied by "Honey's, Handbags, and More," are hard to lease due to their small size. Forever 21 has been on the waiting list forever (no pun intended), because they wanted a flagship store in that mall and had to wait for some leases to expire on existing tenants. Malls will never have 100% long term leases. Never have, never will, just because of the different sizes of spaces that open up and what a specific retailer's actual needs are.

Oh yes...it was open-air. Here's a picture of part of it...

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1377/pennsquare001.jpg

As far as your saying it's a dump, I admit to not having been in the mall for awhile so things have obviously changed.

I was there shopping last Sunday and it definitely was not a dump. I have no idea what Spartan is talking about.

If you walk into Penn Square, it's a dump, with a few nice stores scattered here and there. I used to think it was nice until the last time I went there, when it finally begin to sink into me that it's definitely on the decline. Quail went first, but now that's finally caught up with Penn.

I'm really curious what you're talking about, I never realized that there was an outdoor square. Sounds Utica-esque.
What are you smoking up in Canada?

Oh yes...it was open-air. Here's a picture of part of it...

http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/1377/pennsquare001.jpg

As far as your saying it's a dump, I admit to not having been in the mall for awhile so things have obviously changed.
Too bad they didn't stay open air and expand. Would be a gem fixed up and expanded with modern finishes and old mid century modern design.