I think Penn is quite aware of the new developments around town. Lets have some perspective, QS and Classen Curve want what Penn Square already has. Don't know where I saw it but PS has the highest sales per square foot of any retail development in the state and its not even a contest. Much easier to maintain what you have then try and climb towards something.

Its going to be some time before Chisolm Creek and NHP fill up and while I am happy that QS got Von Maur and H&M we are only talking about two stores. More likely than not, these two stores considered Quail because Penn had no vacancies available for them.

If I were them I would consider a small expansion in the long term, but in the mean time, keep tenants happy, keep customers coming, and the rest will fall in place.

^

The remodeled theater at Penn Square has no doubt helped them a great deal.

And although it's outside the mall on a pad, I was really impressed with Whiskey Cake and they seem to be doing a very good business.

And remember, they just opened the first Microsoft store, have OKC's only Pottery Barn, etc.

I bet they could lease plenty more space if they had it.

^

I bet they could lease plenty more space if they had it.

That's the inherent problem with Penn Square. It's just too small. They have two options. The first is to gradually replace the low-end stores i.e. Windsor, Gamestop, Payless, Jason White's with big-name upscale retailers. The second is an expansion with a new wing of stores and a new anchor, which is feasible on the site.

That's the inherent problem with Penn Square. It's just too small. They have two options. The first is to gradually replace the low-end stores i.e. Windsor, Gamestop, Payless, Jason White's with big-name upscale retailers. The second is an expansion with a new wing of stores and a new anchor, which is feasible on the site.

I would think an expansion to PSM is, at some point, inevitable. I'd love to see them move closer to the expressway with buildings and add another garage somewhere on site to make up for the loss of surface parking.

I still think it is going to be very hard for PSM to be more of an upscale mall with their current anchor base. While there are a few notable exceptions, you rarely find a Louis Vuitton in a mall that has a JC Penney.

I bet they could get JC Penney out if they had another anchor to take their place.

JCP is not doing well as a company but department stores in general are sucking wind, so good luck finding another one to move in.


Simon (Penn Square owner) actually owns everything at the mall except Macy's and the Charter Bank out-parcel.

I still think it is going to be very hard for PSM to be more of an upscale mall with their current anchor base. While there are a few notable exceptions, you rarely find a Louis Vuitton in a mall that has a JC Penney.

True. By the standards of most cities, Penn Square is actually very much an average regional mall, nothing special. As OKC gets more upscale retail in other shopping centers, that fact will show itself more and more which is why I say they need to step up their game in response.

Pete, I know mid-level department stores like JC Penney aren't doing too well but it is my impression that higher-end stores like Nordstrom and Von Maur are doing pretty well.

Penn Square will be fine, the sheer amount of traffic counts right next it on NW Expressway will provide a nice baseline. NHP and CC growing helps Penn Square not hurts. Stores like being clustered together. Everyone has been trying to catch up to penn square while they've been tweaking things. It won't be hard or take long to jump ahead of everyone else once again.

Nordstrom.

With Von Maur and H&M coming to Quail Springs and other upscale tenants coming down the pipes, how will Penn Square respond? With retail all over the metro stepping it up a notch Penn Square is in danger of losing their status as the metro's premier shopping destination if they don't adapt. Pete, are you aware of anything big happening at Penn Square in the near future?

Really? What will be comparable? While it's nice that NHP/Classen Curve and Chisholm Creek are coming on board, it will be years before they are even close to comparable, let alone same level. No we don't want PSM to rest on its laurels, but so far they haven't shown that to be the case, it's continued to get better and better. Relax.


Texas de Brazil will be awesome. It will be the first restaurant of its kind in OKC. However, won't that be in an outparcel? Also, it doesn't compare to Von Maur, H&M, Chisolm Creek, or the possible changes at Classen Curve/NHP. Penn Square is going to have some serious competition and will need to step up its game if it is to remain the premier upscale shopping center in the metro.

Actually it will be the 2nd of its kind in OKC; there was a Churrascaria on NWX & MacArthur years ago but the concept wasn't received well. I'm glad we'll be getting a newer one with more name recognition, marketing budget and better location. I imagine part of PSM/Simon's expansion plan has something to do with better developing these outparcel sites with quality restaurants that will help feed the mall traffic.


I think Penn is quite aware of the new developments around town. Lets have some perspective, QS and Classen Curve want what Penn Square already has. Don't know where I saw it but PS has the highest sales per square foot of any retail development in the state and its not even a contest. Much easier to maintain what you have then try and climb towards something.

Its going to be some time before Chisolm Creek and NHP fill up and while I am happy that QS got Von Maur and H&M we are only talking about two stores. More likely than not, these two stores considered Quail because Penn had no vacancies available for them.

If I were them I would consider a small expansion in the long term, but in the mean time, keep tenants happy, keep customers coming, and the rest will fall in place.

THIS, Penn/Simon has continued to re-invest in the mall and bring on-board higher quality tenants, many of which are new to Oklahoma or at least the metro. They've also casually talked about future expansion plans, and have brought in good pad site restaurants. Nothing else in the metro comes remotely close right now.

Really? What will be comparable? While it's nice that NHP/Classen Curve and Chisholm Creek are coming on board, it will be years before they are even close to comparable, let alone same level. No we don't want PSM to rest on its laurels, but so far they haven't shown that to be the case, it's continued to get better and better. Relax.

Metro, While your other points in your post are true and valid, what you said in the quote box is 100% spot-on. I agree completely.

The AMC theater remodel was more of a makeover that transformed the entire movie experience there. It's the hardest theater to reserve your favorite seats online and has quickly become, in my opinion, the second best theater in the metro. As Pete said, that makes a huge difference for Penn Square.

Penn Square will be fine but I think the shopping area that will eventually have the wow factor is Nichols Hills Plaza/Curve/Triangle.

^^^^^^^^

Agree.

Building permit today for Garage Clothing.

It's not very upscale and nothing to get excited about, but in case anyone is wondering what is going in when they see a space under construction:

http://www.garageclothing.com/

Why is everyone so obsessed with upscale stores? There ARE people out there who don't like spending $$$$$$$. Just throwing that out there before we all decide that we need to get rid of every store that doesn't begin with Nordstrom.

Why is everyone so obsessed with upscale stores? There ARE people out there who don't like spending $$$$$$$. Just throwing that out there before we all decide that we need to get rid of every store that doesn't begin with Nordstrom.

I think its the fact that OKC has the low-end of the market pretty well covered but is lacking in upscale options. A new Wal-Mart being built wouldn't be anything to get excited about but a Nordstrom would be because it's new and different and a step up from anything that was here before. However, the number of customers who would shop at the Wal-Mart would likely dwarf the number who would shop at the Nordstrom.

I think its the fact that OKC has the low-end of the market pretty well covered but is lacking in upscale options. A new Wal-Mart being built wouldn't be anything to get excited about but a Nordstrom would be because it's new and different and a step up from anything that was here before. However, the number of customers who would shop at the Wal-Mart would likely dwarf the number who would shop at the Nordstrom.yes!

Why is everyone so obsessed with upscale stores? There ARE people out there who don't like spending $$$$$$$. Just throwing that out there before we all decide that we need to get rid of every store that doesn't begin with Nordstrom.

Those people won't be typically seen at a mall. Those if us that do like looking nice and having nice things want upscale. That came off pretentious, I know. It's the truth, though.

Coov

Those people won't be typically seen at a mall. Those if us that do like looking nice and having nice things want upscale. That came off pretentious, I know. It's the truth, though.

18th Century: Let them eat cake!

21st Century: Let them shop at the mall!

Who wrote this? "This dude must be the most pretentious and stuck up person on this board. What's it like when your crap smells like roses, Spartan? I've read this board for 6 years. I hardly post( though I did start the mystery tower thread) and anytime you post it's like I'm reading some pretentious elitous view on everything." --- Surprise. You wrote that! Direct link to your post - http://www.okctalk.com/general-real-estate-topics/34147-okc-vs-charlotte-skylines-3.html#post654595

Wow.

Why is everyone so obsessed with upscale stores? There ARE people out there who don't like spending $$$$$$$. Just throwing that out there before we all decide that we need to get rid of every store that doesn't begin with Nordstrom.

I think across the board we as society in America have gotten a little too obsessed with what the other people around us are doing. Mall Shoppers beat up on Walmart shoppers and vice versa.

At the end of the day we just need to worry about ourselves and appreciate the fact that we as Americans have the ability to purchase new things regardless of our budget and preference. Many countries around the world are stuck with second hand goods or the majority of their citizens are barred from shopping certain places because they are working class and working class are seen as trash.

I for one shop the mall, Walmart, Target, Kohls, JcPenney, Sears and just about any place I can find a good buy. It also depends on what I am buying and how I'm going to use it. Nice clothes for work or a formal function I'm going to the mall. Everyday clothes or something I need on budget. I am shopping at Walmart or Target.

18th Century: Let them eat cake!

21st Century: Let them shop at the mall!

Who wrote this? "This dude must be the most pretentious and stuck up person on this board. What's it like when your crap smells like roses, Spartan? I've read this board for 6 years. I hardly post( though I did start the mystery tower thread) and anytime you post it's like I'm reading some pretentious elitous view on everything." --- Surprise. You wrote that! Direct link to your post - http://www.okctalk.com/general-real-estate-topics/34147-okc-vs-charlotte-skylines-3.html#post654595

Wow.


I admitted what I said was pretentious. What I said was the truth. I don't smite everyone that disagrees with me. There's plenty of that kn this board.

Simon says success: Longtime tenants add polish to Penn Square | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/08/21/simon-says-success-longtime-tenants-add-polish-to-penn-square-real-estate/)

Simon says success: Longtime tenants add polish to Penn Square | The Journal Record (http://journalrecord.com/2014/08/21/simon-says-success-longtime-tenants-add-polish-to-penn-square-real-estate/)

Here is the full article:

OKLAHOMA CITY – BC Clark Jewelers Chairman Jim Clark said the company had a decision to make in 1988 about its next location. It had moved out of the Mayfair shopping center and was scouting a site that would please customers. This new site would require a front door with street frontage.

“That was very critical,” Clark said. “We had a very strong customer base that got a little spoiled with being able to come in and shop.”

The company was able to get that street-facing front door and a few reserve parking spots at Penn Square Mall.

“It’s been a very good marriage,” he said.

Simon Properties Senior Vice President of Leasing Robert Alexander praised BC Clark, Mr. Ooley’s and Lucca Fashion Boutique as being important retailers at Penn Square Mall. Simon purchased the mall in 2002.

“BC Clark is the top jeweler in the state of Oklahoma,” Alexander said. “If I told you the volume they’re doing out of Penn Square, it’s phenomenal. These guys are just great merchants. As much as people like to discount our interest on local retailers, we have a strong interest in local retailers.”

Alexander spoke Tuesday at an International Council of Shopping Centers Idea Exchange about Simon’s Oklahoma properties, Penn Square and Woodland Hills Mall in Tulsa. He said he and other Simon leasing agents worked aggressively during the recession to bring local retailers into their malls.

Mr. Ooley’s has sold designer clothes, suits and shoes at Penn Square since 1995, having originally started at Shepherd Mall in 1964. Co-owner David Ooley said when he and his sister and store co-owner Sara Ooley considered moving in the 1990s, they looked at Penn Square, 50 Penn Place or a free-standing store. He said they were uncertain how well they would do at Penn Square. Since Mr. Ooley’s offers tailored men’s suits, a customer must make two trips to the store for the attire. He said they were concerned that a customer might not want to make two trips to the mall. The store is near one of the Northwest Expressway entrances and has parking exclusively for its customers.

“We took the chance and came here and have been very pleased,” David Ooley said. “Not only were the regular customers happy with the location, but we’ve been able to get a surprising number of customers from traffic in the mall. Even though we spend above industry standards on marketing, there’s no substitute for having someone come in and experience what you’re about.”

Mr. Ooley’s and BC Clark are just two stores that have helped Penn Square grow its sales per square foot. When Simon purchased the properties in 2002, Alexander said, the mall’s sales were $375 per square foot, while Woodland Hills’ sales were $400 per square foot. That has changed, with Penn Square now having sales of $700 per square foot, and Woodland Hills now does $600 per square foot.

“That’s a really good number for a market the size of Tulsa,” he said.

Because of Penn Square’s success, Alexander said Simon would like to add more space to the facility. The addition would be to the west, where UMB Bank has a branch.

“We’ve looked at that for years,” said Alexander. “We’d love to have it. We have interest in it. We are having some current conversations to accommodate (the bank) and make them happy, and perhaps do what we want to do. We do have a desire to have more space there. We’ll continue working on that. We do not have it worked out yet.”

Simon is also working on an outlet mall in Tulsa. It will be one of the company’s newest models for a smaller market, having previously only built outlets in areas with 2 million people in the retail trade area. It will be near U.S. Highway 75 and 61st Street.

Awesome. So the long-speculated addition to Penn Square may one day become a reality. Will be interesting to see what gets proposed and when.

They could always add a parking garage in another section and then build out a lot instead of sprawling out towards Penn in that direction. If they're smart, they'll also make it a 3 floor structure. Too bad they can't retro fit a 3rd floor on the existing structure.

I would think if they were going to expand to the UMB area, they would take out that parking lot in between there and UMB and would have to add structured parking, most likely to the north side of Macy's because you would be taking out almost 500 parking spots. I could see kind of an angled extension from the west entrance south of Macy's to the street and then a large addition on the UMB bank spot with more retailers in between. They could extend the entrance right next to Pottery Barn out as well.

I was at Penn Square over the weekend and multiple escalators going from the first to second floor were broken down, both in the food court area and in the Macy's wing. The escalator in the food court area has been broken down for over a month now. Any idea what is going on?

I would think if they were going to expand to the UMB area, they would take out that parking lot in between there and UMB and would have to add structured parking, most likely to the north side of Macy's because you would be taking out almost 500 parking spots. I could see kind of an angled extension from the west entrance south of Macy's to the street and then a large addition on the UMB bank spot with more retailers in between. They could extend the entrance right next to Pottery Barn out as well.

This would be the best solution. In many other cities, malls built in areas with limited space generally rely extensively on structured parking.

Also, they didn't just spend millions on renovating those entrances like they did some of the others, so they might be more inclined to cover them up.

I was at Penn Square over the weekend and multiple escalators going from the first to second floor were broken down, both in the food court area and in the Macy's wing. The escalator in the food court area has been broken down for months now. Any idea what is going on?

I was there last week and I'm pretty sure the escalator at the food court was working just fine. Definitely hasn't been down for months.

I was there last week and I'm pretty sure the escalator at the food court was working just fine. Definitely hasn't been down for months.
I was there about 2 weeks ago and it was working.

I was there the first week of August. It was working then. Simon doesn't let things go like that for over a month. They just don't.

I was there the first week of August. It was working then. Simon doesn't let things go like that for over a month. They just don't.

It's possible it could have been fixed and then broken down again between my visits so to me it looked like it had never been fixed. I'll keep an eye out next time I go.

I was there August 9th and the Escalator going to the 2nd floor in the JCPenney wing was broken down as well as the up escalator right outside of Dillard's (former Wards).

I was there last week and I'm pretty sure the escalator at the food court was working just fine. Definitely hasn't been down for months.

It has not been continuous, some days I have been in there in the last few months and they are working fine, others it looks like are just not turned on, once or twice times they were clearly doing maintenance since many of the 'steps' had been removed.

The great escalator scandal of 2014.

The great escalator scandal of 2014.man these escalators are serious issues here brotha. Why, if we aren't escalating, WE'RE DEESCALATING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

When I saw that you were the last poster I thought for sure you were advocating for 50-story, high-speed, 10-lane escalators. :-P

Escalators can never break down. They can only become stairs.

When I saw that you were the last poster I thought for sure you were advocating for 50-story, high-speed, 10-lane escalators. :-P
that's phase two

Escalators can never break down. They can only become stairs.

Really difficult stairs.

Like how moving sidewalks are awkward to walk on if they are off.

Escalators can never break down. They can only become stairs.

RIP Mitch Hedberg...

There is one escalator in Concourse B at DIA that had been down every week I was out there for about two months, they ended up completely rebuilding it. Sometimes you can't patch them anymore and major work has to be done, both of them are 20+ years old.

RIP Mitch Hedberg...

We apologize for the convenience....

Escalators can never break down. They can only become stairs.

... but for some reason, they have been blocking them off even when they are just stopped

I wouldn't be surprised if there were OSHA requirements for that, largely in that you probably shouldn't let people use a broken mechanical staircase. That's just an injury/wrongful death lawsuit waiting to happen.

I sure its a liability issue like David said. There's always a chance that an escalator breaks free of the gear and starts spinning, however unlikely. I'm not sure how a moving sidewalk can have something go wrong other than it might slip and a person might lose balance and fall on it. And you could get sliced up pretty well on one. But that seems awfully far-fetched too. I'm guessing it happened somewhere at some point in the past and some agency decided a rule needed to go out to prevent it.

The problem at Penn is there really isn't an alternative nearby. The elevator is the slowest known to man and really should be reserved for strollers and those with difficulty. At Crossroads there were still stairs and ramps to get yo upstairs, which was nice. You have to make your way to one of the ends with an escalator or go into the department stores to use theirs. It's just an inconvenience, so lets not make too big a deal about it.

If Penn is going to take up more parking for building space, i do with they would put some thought into maintaining the main parking traffic flow. Most malls don't do a very good job of it, and Penn is AWFUL. Every turn becomes a traffic jam because the traffic isn't designed in a manner that moves people along, rather it encourages them to stop frequently. I doubt anything will change, but i can hope.

Altar'd State is going where Coldwater Creek used to be. It's a Christian-based women's clothing store that donates a portion of every sale to charity.

Welcome to Altar'd State - Altardstate.com (http://www.altardstate.com/)

Penn Square Mall announces ?extra festive? hours for holiday shoppers | KFOR.com (http://kfor.com/2014/11/06/penn-square-mall-announces-extra-festive-hours-for-holiday-shoppers/)

I was doing some Christmas shopping at The Body Shop this evening and the sales associate on duty told me that this location will be closing for good on Christmas Eve. She made it sound like they'd been squeezed out by mall management, but I'm not sure that's right. I'm guessing the rent for that space may have gotten higher than what they were willing to pay for it. She did tell me that someone already bought up their lease (though couldn't tell me who!).

I'm interested to see who will take their place. The Body Shop held that spot for at least 20 years. It's not that big of a slot.

Has Eddie Bauer closed down? Last time we were there all the windows were covered and now their website only lists the Sooner Mall store. We shopped there a lot. Does anyone know?

Has Eddie Bauer closed down? Last time we were there all the windows were covered and now their website only lists the Sooner Mall store. We shopped there a lot. Does anyone know?

Remodeling the store as I understand. Re-opening summer I want to say but not exactly sure.

Remodeling, and I was told they are coming back with a smaller footprint.

Speaking of closing stores Cache should be closing at Penn soon along with all their other locations . Also I noticed that Hallmark isn't in Penn Square anymore, anyone know why?

Check this out folks, Lot's of old pics of the mall on this page. OKC Mod » Penn Square: Oklahoma?s First Modern Shopping Mall (http://okcmod.com/?p=6702)

Check this out folks, Lot's of old pics of the mall on this page. OKC Mod » Penn Square: Oklahoma?s First Modern Shopping Mall (http://okcmod.com/?p=6702)

I tried your link and it says that the page can't be displayed.

I tried your link and it says that the page can't be displayed.

Works for me.

Soonerman, thanks for the link to the old photos of Penn Square. I really enjoyed the open air environment and the stores, many of which were unique to OKC. Now I only go to Penn Square if an absolute must. I still wish the original Penn Square sign had been preserved.

Yes, those photos were great!

And completely agree about the old sign. If they would have just waited a bit longer, it would have come back into style (everything is retro these days) and it was pretty darn cool.

http://okcmod.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/penn-square-sign.jpg