I hope it gets started soon.

FYI, Dave Ortloff is no longer with them as of a week or two ago. He is a great guy and it wasn't personal. I hear they are focusing on Lake Eufala only for foreseeable future. Dave did not want to move to Eufala.

Seems like this is another great looking plan with no legs. Do you think they will sell and let someone else do something or just hold on to it and let the area stay abandoned looking?

Humphreys has a lot of money already invested in the site, but yes, that was for a project that is no longer feasible in the "Great Recession." It's on the back burner for sure.

Seemed to be pretty ambitious from the start. I would think there could be something done, a scaled down version maybe.

Seemed to be pretty ambitious from the start. I would think there could be something done, a scaled down version maybe.

I thought it was a great project of great scale. It had the potential to be truly urban design and not just a suburban apartment building built downtown. It seems alot more feasible and less risky than the entire project of the old downtown airpark.

Truth be told it did not seem like that significant of a project. The problem is Grant's other assets, he's still trying really hard to sell off the rest of his condo units that were not moving for a while and the airpark is calling for him. After those, I'm not sure if I place this project before or after his Crown Heights proposal that will probably not happen now. And on top of all of that he's currently moving on his Eufala village.

I don't think the FlatIron was super ambitious or anything, because it was essentially a very high-grade renovation of a small building and a small amount of new construction to supplement the site and add density. Maybe the high-design aspects were ambitious, but in terms of scope, it really wasn't. And that's the way it should be, significant in design terms, not size terms..quality over quantity.

The FlatIron is just not a large enough project to be a sustaining next move for him financially. He needs to do a quick money maker next, and the FlatIron is not it. So in terms of that, does it really make a difference if he reworks the project? What could he rework? Bring down the level of some amenities maybe, maybe not LEED certified, maybe go rental instead of condo in the hopes that you can attract an investment company to buy up the fully-leased apartment units? I just don't see how you turn a site that really needs a lot of attention to details in order to be pulled off right into a quick pay day. He needs to stick with the project and wait until he has more cash flow in my opinion.

My opinion is also that the Crown Heights thing might be a better financial move than the airpark at this point, but I'm just a C2S skeptic..

Not vanished but put on lng term hold like a lot of other projects.

i agree this wasn't an epic project, but many on here laud Tulsa for their multiple small improvement projects vs. the OKC large project mentality downtown and this seems like a nice little infill project. It is at a highly visible corner leading into inner downtown and would set a nice tone. I am sorry it won't be more important....oh well, on to the next BIG project.

I tend to prefer the smaller projects, myself.

What is Grant's Crown Heights plan? I don't recall it being mentioned before.

I suspect it, or something like it, will eventually get done. Perhaps Grant is waiting to sell out Block 42 before starting. Besides Core to Shore, the area with the most land potentially available for residential development stretches from 2nd to 13th, east of the railroad tracks, IMO. And I still think the downtown airpark is going to be a difficult sell for the near future, as it's across the river and the Core to Shore area north of it across the river will be the last to be developed, most likely.

i agree this wasn't an epic project, but many on here laud Tulsa for their multiple small improvement projects vs. the OKC large project mentality downtown and this seems like a nice little infill project. It is at a highly visible corner leading into inner downtown and would set a nice tone. I am sorry it won't be more important....oh well, on to the next BIG project.

Completely agree. These small projects are much more important than they seem. If they are successful they can set the tone for an area... I also hope this project happens at some point.

Correct me if I am wrong but I remember this being a $30+ million project. They were wanting to tunnel out some underground parking and also build up 3 stories or so. It may be a small sight but it was no small project, thats why I said it was an ambitious project from the start.

Expect Grant to spend most of the year working on the Lake Eufaula project.

Darn it, would someone answer my question about his Crown Heights plan?

There was supposed to be a mixed use development just west of the Broadway Extension on the north side of 36th St.. At one point in time there were rumors of Whole Foods going in there, or a Trader Joe's. It is my understanding that there was a negative response to the plan by residents of Crown Heights and surrounds, which may be the reason it stalled.

i agree this wasn't an epic project, but many on here laud Tulsa for their multiple small improvement projects vs. the OKC large project mentality downtown and this seems like a nice little infill project. It is at a highly visible corner leading into inner downtown and would set a nice tone. I am sorry it won't be more important....oh well, on to the next BIG project.

No doubt. I absolutely think his FlatIron project had the potential to be the best thing in his entire portfolio, far better than Waterfront. My comment that this was a smaller project in scope was just with regards to the whole, "Well, now what happens to the site?" question and the inevitable answer, "Well, he'll have to attempt a downsized proposal."

I agree that the underground parking was interesting, and not really needed, but it's an amenity that I think would behoove him in terms of selling out the office space at least, and probably the residential units, too. There is no street parking along the streets in the FlatIron or in much of that whole area aside from the heart of Deep Deuce and the redone streetscapes of Maywood Park. There could be hundreds of new spaces if the city restriped..could maybe save Grant some cost and make this project more readily feasible. I wonder how much of the inflated cost per sf was related to the structured parking.

There are "stalled projects" all over the country, some developers have lost their projects and others are being very selective in starting new ones and the lenders aren't allowing multiple projects by smaller developers to be underway at the same time. We have some that are setup one after another, when one is completed they can start on the next. Just the nature of the development in this day and age.

Insurance company eyes former Oklahoma City hotel as new headquarters | News OK (http://newsok.com/insurance-company-eyes-former-oklahoma-city-hotel-as-new-headquarters/article/3940668)


Architect Rand Elliott told commissioners the $3.5 million renovation will incorporate “historically accurate brick” and design-appropriate windows.

Hooks’ company will occupy the original 13,000-square-foot building.

Ainsworth said a second phase addition to be built on vacant land to the east of the former hotel will likely consist of a two-story garage and three stories of office space.

Ah, that's where that was supposed to go.

You can obviously delete the other thread I started.

Said this in Andrew's thread, but nice to see Chuck Ainsworth back in the development game, and we've got Don Karchmer working on a Bricktown project - funny how things remain the same.

"The building at Harrison and Walnut Avenues, boarded up for 27 years..." Wow, I thought they needed to be torn down after about three years..? Too far gone or something like that...

"The building at Harrison and Walnut Avenues, boarded up for 27 years..." Wow, I thought they needed to be torn down after about three years..? Too far gone or something like that...

Stop it. :)

Has my point been made LOL?

Has my point been made LOL?

Ad nauseam. I'm having HVAC/window unit flashbacks! haha

"The building at Harrison and Walnut Avenues, boarded up for 27 years..." Wow, I thought they needed to be torn down after about three years..? Too far gone or something like that...

Great point. Amazing how a structurally sound and well designed building can very easily be brought back to life after so many years of dormancy, while a poorly designed one deteriorates so quickly.

You mean a poorly designed one like the Film Exchange building bordering the park or the reinforced concrete bunkers that make up Stage Center? Yeah, you don't think they are REALLY deteriorated beyond repair, do you? If so I have a bridge to sell you.

We need to stop using "it's too far gone to save" as a crutch. It is a red herring, and it is disingenuous. We just need to be honest with ourselves and admit it when it is simply inconvenient to keep something around, or when we simply don't want to.

You mean a poorly designed one like the Film Exchange building bordering the park or the reinforced concrete bunkers that make up Stage Center? Yeah, you don't think they are REALLY deteriorated beyond repair, do you? If so I have a bridge to sell you.

We need to stop using "it's too far gone to save" as a crutch. It is a red herring, and it is disingenuous. We just need to be honest with ourselves and admit it when it is simply inconvenient to keep something around, or when we simply don't want to.

http://newsok.com/last-attempt-to-save-stage-center-fails/article/3940588


From that article:

Meanwhile, for the first time in the three-year battle over Stage Center, civic leader James Pickel revealed that Oklahoma Contemporary, formerly known as Arts Center, looked at making Stage Center its new home. Oklahoma Contemporary is a major beneficiary of Chris Keesee, whose Kirkpatrick Family Fund also owned the building and land until selling it last year to Williams. Oklahoma Contemporary bought property at NW 11 and Broadway for its future home.

Pickel said the studies looking at moving Oklahoma Contemporary to Stage Center showed the cost of the project would range between $30 million and $40 million.
That cost estimate is pretty telling. I'm all for saving the building if there was a chance of it being usable, but that is a pretty steep hill to climb for anyone who might have wanted to.

There appear to be about 30 - 40 million reasons it was considered "too far gone to save" for a business concern.

You mean a poorly designed one like the Film Exchange building bordering the park or the reinforced concrete bunkers that make up Stage Center? Yeah, you don't think they are REALLY deteriorated beyond repair, do you? If so I have a bridge to sell you.

We need to stop using "it's too far gone to save" as a crutch. It is a red herring, and it is disingenuous. We just need to be honest with ourselves and admit it when it is simply inconvenient to keep something around, or when we simply don't want to.

It's sheer intellectual laziness

"It's not economically feasible to save" -- which was/is the main argument for demolishing Stage Center -- is different that "it's too far gone to save".

Not saying it's right or wrong, just drawing the distinction.

You mean a poorly designed one like the Film Exchange building bordering the park or the reinforced concrete bunkers that make up Stage Center? Yeah, you don't think they are REALLY deteriorated beyond repair, do you? If so I have a bridge to sell you.

We need to stop using "it's too far gone to save" as a crutch. It is a red herring, and it is disingenuous. We just need to be honest with ourselves and admit it when it is simply inconvenient to keep something around, or when we simply don't want to.

Go write the check. Obviously you know enough about how feasible it is to bring the Stage Center back to life. You obviously know something the rest of the world does not know about it.

Your snarky comparisons regarding every single renovation is growing tired.

"It's not economically feasible to save" -- which was/is the main argument for demolishing Stage Center -- is different that "it's too far gone to save".

Not saying it's right or wrong, just drawing the distinction.

See, I don't mind that so much. It seems like splitting hairs of course, but it makes it clear what is actually happening here: a values choice. It's fair enough for someone to say "this building isn't worth spending that much money on," but at least you are owning the real issue. To me, it is a coward's refuge to say "it can't be saved" or "it's too far gone," when that is clearly untrue. Just own up to the fact that we don't really WANT to save this particular building, or at least don't want to go to heroic effort to do so.

And buildings/projects like the one this thread is the subject of - or the Osler/Ambassador or Guardian, or Marion, or Rock Island Plow, or Main Street Arcade or...do I really have to go on - make it abundantly clear that letting a building sit around mothballed for years (or even decades) is NOT the end of the world that some people make it out to be, after all. We are now seeing new life being breathed into buildings that most people wouldn't even have missed if they had been knocked down in the middle of the night, and most of those buildings are becoming showplaces, special buildings that you could not even build today if you wanted too.

"It's not economically feasible to save" -- which was/is the main argument for demolishing Stage Center -- is different that "it's too far gone to save".

Not saying it's right or wrong, just drawing the distinction.

^This...

That distinction is why I have a much bigger issue with tearing down the film exchange building than the stage center.

"It's not economically feasible to save" -- which was/is the main argument for demolishing Stage Center -- is different that "it's too far gone to save".

Not saying it's right or wrong, just drawing the distinction.

You left off making excuses for Rainey :p

According to Steve, Rand Elliott is proposing to do a tear down.

Rand Elliott Proposes to Tear Down Flatiron Building at 7 N Harrison | News OK (http://newsok.com/rand-elliott-proposes-to-tear-down-flatiron-building-at-7-n-harrison/article/4412536)

According to Steve, Rand Elliott is proposing to do a tear down.

Rand Elliott Proposes to Tear Down Flatiron Building at 7 N Harrison | News OK (http://newsok.com/rand-elliott-proposes-to-tear-down-flatiron-building-at-7-n-harrison/article/4412536)

This is not the same building as the Flatiron Building. The 7 N Harrison is the one on the same half block as Rand's office and right across the street from the proposed OKSEA.

I'm a little confused. Those pictured are right next to the RR bridge and were most lately home to Leo's BBQ, if I understand this correctly. They're pretty much a shambles and there's no mansard roof that might hide a great exterior. Nor are they the Flatiron building. Maybe Steve is calling these Flatiron buildings as they are in the Flatiron district. Personally, since this is in my 'hood, I'd be happy to see them torn down. Rehabbed would be fine too - actually anything, as they look terrible now.

OKCSea, though, is moving to 2nd St., next to the Clark Building, so won't be in the Flatiron district. I'm more excited about having it on 2nd than Harrison, as that lot on 2nd needs some love.

I think it is meant in the sense that it is located in the Flatiron "district". As in "...proposes to tear down Midtown building" or "...proposes to tear down Automobile Alley building".

I think the headline is a bit misleading, but that's OK. Probably the person who wrote the headline isn't as invested in this area as some of us. I love the Flatiron building and panicked a bit when I saw the headline. But those buildings can go, as far as I'm concerned. I prefer historic preservation, but I'm not sure those would look significantly better restored.

Yes, it's just the old Leo's building and I'm sure this will just be made into a parking lot for now.

There is only the demo permit, nothing is proposed to be constructed there for the time being.

Yeah, that is one confusing headline, especially if you aren't familiar with the district and the buildings in question.

Interesting turn of events... The owners of this property have decided to have a 3rd level, with a walk-out deck:



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8157d1402696408-flatiron-building-flatiron4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8156d1402696407-flatiron-building-flatiron5.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8155d1402696407-flatiron-building-flatiron6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8154d1402696406-flatiron-building-flatiron7.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8153d1402696405-flatiron-building-flatiron8.jpg

YES!

The view of downtown from that perspective is my favorite and I long had a secret wish this place would be a restaurant with a rooftop. Not getting my entire wish, but glad someone else had this vision.

Here is an approximation of the view from that 3rd level... Should be pretty spectacular:



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8163d1402699729-flatiron-building-flatironview.jpg

Yes, this is my personal favorite framing of our skyline. You see it at the light at Harrison and Walnut.

^^^^^^^^

Completely agree. Best view of the skyline.

It's really the only angle where all the buildings line up pretty well and Devon Tower doesn't completely overwhelm everything else.

I prefer the view from the northwest where the buildings really line up and you also get a clear shot of Leadership Square, which is completely missed from this perspective. However, from the NW Devon still seems out of scale. I'm hoping a Mystery Tower (or two or three or four!) will even that out and then I can love the NW view unabashedly.

It's really the only angle where all the buildings line up pretty well and Devon Tower doesn't completely overwhelm everything else.

I prefer the view from the northwest where the buildings really line up and you also get a clear shot of Leadership Square, which is completely missed from this perspective. However, from the NW Devon still seems out of scale. I'm hoping a Mystery Tower (or two or three or four!) will even that out and then I can love the NW view unabashedly.

I caught basically that view running last night, crossing e bridge from HSC on 10th. It's a great sight.

Not sure what I think of the height of the proposed railing (fence?) around the upper level deck. It seems a bit over-sized compared to the building as a whole and doesn't really match the look.

Oh, and the reason I was thinking about this, new article from Steve: Will New Flatiron Renderings Get Green Light From Urban Renewal? | News OK (http://newsok.com/article/4927363).

Not sure what I think of the height of the proposed railing (fence?) around the upper level deck. It seems a bit over-sized compared to the building as a whole and doesn't really match the look.

I agree. It almost has a Devon boathouse look to it with all the supports really close together.

^

Some clarification on the approval process for these proposed changes...

The previous design had already been approved by OCURA and the Downtown Design Review Committee.

This proposed revision was just submitted to OCURA, who passed it on to the DDRC with the recommendation it be expedited and approved.

So, rather than going before the full DDRC board and having to wait for their next meeting on July 17th, it is instead being reviewed as an "Administrative" item, meaning the committee can approve almost immediately.

Almost all the items submitted for Admin review are approved. Might not be the case here but I also wouldn't be surprised if it quickly and unceremoniously gets the green light.

Just a note. Administrative approval I believe is the city staff approving not the full committee. Although the full committee is who gave the staff the ability to approve some things administratively

Some new renderings of this project:



http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8607d1405016298-flatiron-building-flatiron11.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8606d1405016298-flatiron-building-flatiron10.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8608d1405016301-flatiron-building-flatiron12.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8609d1405016301-flatiron-building-flatiron13.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/attachments/development-buildings/8610d1405016302-flatiron-building-flatiron14.jpg

Okay, that I like. Still looks a little odd, but in more of a "hmn, that's interesting" as opposed to a "hmn, that's... interesting" sort of way.

Okay, that I like. Still looks a little odd, but in more of a "hmn, that's interesting" as opposed to a "hmn, that's... interesting" sort of way.

This post is terrific, haha. And describes my feelings exactly.

There is now fencing around the building and a sign out front. So I assume this will be started very soon.

Building permit filed for this project today.

PLICO has stated they have to be out of The Reserve by July 2015, so this should move pretty quickly.

News article: OKCTalk - Flatiron Building in Deep Deuce to start redevelopment (http://www.okctalk.com/content/40-flatiron-building-deep-deuce-start-redevelopment.html)

9248

The flatiron project seems to be moving right along. If you look close you can see the roof has been removed.